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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?


A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.


I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.
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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?



Jenn wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
MiNe 109 wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?

A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.


I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.


Ok - got it - sort of ???

Over here you'd have an agency for 'extras', so no need for a cattle call.

Graham


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MiNe 109 MiNe 109 is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?


A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.


I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?


No, she referred to union data for calls (=gigs), so Arny implied the
calls were for open auditions. This doesn't make any difference to
Jenn's point, so it boils down to another side-issue.

Stephen
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MiNe 109 MiNe 109 is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article

om,
Jenn wrote:

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?

A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.


I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.


The term definitely applies to things like "American Idol" auditions!
Sometimes opera people use the term, but more as a borrowing from the
theater usage.

Stephen
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MiNe 109 MiNe 109 is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
MiNe 109 wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?

A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.

I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.


Ok - got it - sort of ???

Over here you'd have an agency for 'extras', so no need for a cattle call.


It's not restricted to extras:

http://www.cattlecall.com/

More apropo:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398839/

Stephen


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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?



MiNe 109 wrote:

Jenn wrote:
Eeyore wrote:


Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.


The term definitely applies to things like "American Idol" auditions!
Sometimes opera people use the term, but more as a borrowing from the
theater usage.


OK.

I'm getting the picture now.

So, why did Arny introduce this idea ?

Graham

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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
MiNe 109 wrote:

In article

om,
Jenn wrote:

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
Arny Krueger wrote:

It's just cattle calls, right?

Is this the best you can contribute to quality audio ?

Jenn brought up the issue of calls for workers at a union hall.

Did she indeed ?

So you felt obliged to rise to this humourous remark ?

A "cattle call" is an open audition. Sound-for-picture sessions are
presumably invite-only, hence the term "first-call" to describe a
musician whose services are in demand.

I regret I'm still no wiser.

Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham


Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle call" (a term
usually used for theater; I've never heard this term used in relation to
musical auditions) is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large "herd" of people,
i.e. "cattle". This never happens for TV/MP sessions. The contractor
calls specific people and hires them.


The term definitely applies to things like "American Idol" auditions!
Sometimes opera people use the term, but more as a borrowing from the
theater usage.

Stephen


Exactly.
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Posts: 17,262
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message


See above. I'm quite sure that I could take a day and
look up all of the stats from each AFM local in the
country and you still wouldn't believe me. What's the
point?


Your criteria is invalid. Cattle calls at AFM locals
are not a reliable indication of what work is going on.


I'm not talking about "cattle calls". See previous post.


IME most work like this is done based on pre-existing professional
relationships that are not generally documented.


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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Posts: 17,262
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
MiNe 109 wrote:

Jenn wrote:
Eeyore wrote:


Arny thinks Jenn = cattle ?

Graham

Nope (at least not as far as far as I know). A "cattle
call" (a term usually used for theater; I've never
heard this term used in relation to musical auditions)
is an ad for, as Stephen said, an open audition, i.e.
anyone can show up. When you do that, you get large
"herd" of people, i.e. "cattle". This never happens
for TV/MP sessions. The contractor calls specific
people and hires them.


The term definitely applies to things like "American
Idol" auditions! Sometimes opera people use the term,
but more as a borrowing from the theater usage.


OK.

I'm getting the picture now.


It took some serious head-beating to get it into your dense skull.

So, why did Arny introduce this idea ?


Because Jenn mentioned unions.


  #1570   Report Post  
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Posts: 17,262
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message
.
com
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in
message

In article
,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

95% seems more than a little extreme, considering
that there are places like NYC, Chicago, Memphis,
etc. Of course Graham, this all probably seems
pretty abstract to you, sitting there in the UK.
The idea that Hollywood is the center of the US is
a fiction that Hollywood movies tend to perpetuate
in the minds of naive persons.

That's good. Now you're negotiating the percentage
instead making an overly literal black-and-white
judgment.

You've got that all wrong.

Jenn's the one who has taken the overly literal
black-and-white position. Jenn is still playing 95%
or nothing.

Incorrect. My exact statement was, "My estimation is
that something on the order of over 95% of TV scores
are recorded in Hollywood"

So what was all that weirdness about major movies?

What weirdness?


Let's find some way to gauge this. Hollywood is at
least 50%, I'm guessing.


Everybody's guessing, including Jenn. That makes this
an assertion contest.

I'm guessing based on the number of calls for film and
TV dates originating from Local 47 of the AFM as
opposed to Locals 802, 10-208, 71.

What's your assurance that that is 100 per cent of
everything?

I'm not going to look up every local for you for a
trivial point. I looked up three that you mentioned:
L.A., NYC, Chicago, Memphis.


It's just cattle calls, right?


Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.


It's based on the fiction that unions have 100% knowlege of all musical work
being done.




  #1571   Report Post  
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dave weil dave weil is offline
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Posts: 170
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 07:07:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

See above. I'm quite sure that I could take a day and
look up all of the stats from each AFM local in the
country and you still wouldn't believe me. What's the
point?

Your criteria is invalid. Cattle calls at AFM locals
are not a reliable indication of what work is going on.


I'm not talking about "cattle calls". See previous post.


IME most work like this is done based on pre-existing professional
relationships that are not generally documented.


"Your estimation". IOW, "I'll do ANYTHING to avoid admiting that I'm
not familiar with the terminology of a field that I claim ultimate
knowledge in".
  #1572   Report Post  
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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Posts: 3,021
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message
.
com
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message

y.
com
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in
message

In article
,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

95% seems more than a little extreme, considering
that there are places like NYC, Chicago, Memphis,
etc. Of course Graham, this all probably seems
pretty abstract to you, sitting there in the UK.
The idea that Hollywood is the center of the US is
a fiction that Hollywood movies tend to perpetuate
in the minds of naive persons.

That's good. Now you're negotiating the percentage
instead making an overly literal black-and-white
judgment.

You've got that all wrong.

Jenn's the one who has taken the overly literal
black-and-white position. Jenn is still playing 95%
or nothing.

Incorrect. My exact statement was, "My estimation is
that something on the order of over 95% of TV scores
are recorded in Hollywood"

So what was all that weirdness about major movies?

What weirdness?


Let's find some way to gauge this. Hollywood is at
least 50%, I'm guessing.


Everybody's guessing, including Jenn. That makes this
an assertion contest.

I'm guessing based on the number of calls for film and
TV dates originating from Local 47 of the AFM as
opposed to Locals 802, 10-208, 71.

What's your assurance that that is 100 per cent of
everything?

I'm not going to look up every local for you for a
trivial point. I looked up three that you mentioned:
L.A., NYC, Chicago, Memphis.

It's just cattle calls, right?


Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.


It's based on the fiction that unions have 100% knowlege of all musical work
being done.


No, it based on the fact that the vast majority of TV/MP production
companies are union shops. You don't make a living making music in that
business without being a union member. Why do you keep arguing about
something you know nothing about?
  #1573   Report Post  
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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message
.
com

See above. I'm quite sure that I could take a day and
look up all of the stats from each AFM local in the
country and you still wouldn't believe me. What's the
point?

Your criteria is invalid. Cattle calls at AFM locals
are not a reliable indication of what work is going on.


I'm not talking about "cattle calls". See previous post.


IME most work like this is done based on pre-existing professional
relationships


Correct, mostly.

that are not generally documented.


No, they are totally documented for union shops.
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George M. Middius George M. Middius is offline
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Posts: 5,173
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?



Jenn asked the Krooborg:

Why do you keep arguing about
something you know nothing about?


Why do the birds sing? Why do the stars light up the night sky?




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

"Jenn" wrote in
message



Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.


It's based on the fiction that unions have 100% knowlege
of all musical work being done.


No, it based on the fact that the vast majority of TV/MP
production companies are union shops.


Note that Jenn tries to confuse "vast majority" with "100% (or 95%).

Typical "Debating Trade" tactic.

You don't make a living making music in that business without being a
union member.


Here come more dogmatic statements, unimpeachable source = Jenn.



Why do you keep arguing about something
you know nothing about?





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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Posts: 3,021
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message



Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.


It's based on the fiction that unions have 100% knowlege
of all musical work being done.


No, it based on the fact that the vast majority of TV/MP
production companies are union shops.


Note that Jenn tries to confuse "vast majority" with "100% (or 95%).

Typical "Debating Trade" tactic.


lol


You don't make a living making music in that business without being a
union member.


Here come more dogmatic statements, unimpeachable source = Jenn.


I challenge you to name ONE person making a living playing sound for
film dates in the U.S. who is not a AFM member. Again, you're arguing
something you know nothing about. You have an obvious need to try to
argue every point regardless of your level of expertise. Would you like
to conduct Schuman for me Wednesday night for me? I'm sure you know all
about that as well.

Why do you keep arguing about something
you know nothing about?

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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Posts: 17,262
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message



Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.


It's based on the fiction that unions have 100%
knowlege of all musical work being done.


No, it based on the fact that the vast majority of TV/MP
production companies are union shops.


Note that Jenn tries to confuse "vast majority" with
"100% (or 95%).

Typical "Debating Trade" tactic.


lol


You don't make a living making music in that business
without being a union member.


Here come more dogmatic statements, unimpeachable source
= Jenn.


I challenge you to name ONE person making a living
playing sound for film dates in the U.S. who is not a AFM
member.


Not my job. Just because I can't jump through hoops of your choosing jenn,
means nothing about your global claim.


  #1578   Report Post  
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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Posts: 3,021
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in
message
.
com


Nope. The stats are a list of paid player hours for a
given local.

It's based on the fiction that unions have 100%
knowlege of all musical work being done.

No, it based on the fact that the vast majority of TV/MP
production companies are union shops.

Note that Jenn tries to confuse "vast majority" with
"100% (or 95%).

Typical "Debating Trade" tactic.


lol


You don't make a living making music in that business
without being a union member.

Here come more dogmatic statements, unimpeachable source
= Jenn.


I challenge you to name ONE person making a living
playing sound for film dates in the U.S. who is not a AFM
member.


Not my job. Just because I can't jump through hoops of your choosing jenn,
means nothing about your global claim.


lol. Here we see an example of your "debate" style. You are presented
with a challenge that shows that your statements on the matter are
without authority. But it's "not my job". Not only is it "not your
job", it's an impossible task. That's because I'm correct in my
assertion. But you'll keep arguing anyway.
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George M. Middius George M. Middius is offline
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Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?



Jenn said:

That's because I'm correct in my
assertion. But you'll keep arguing anyway.


Are you implying that Arnii getting all this attention from you is a bad
thing? How strange.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
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dave weil dave weil is offline
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Posts: 170
Default Arny ! Why don't you STFU ?

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:37:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

unimpeachable source = Jenn.


Finally Arnold gets it.

Kudos!
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