A Audio and hi-fi forum. AudioBanter

Go Back   Home » AudioBanter forum » rec.audio » Pro Audio
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 25th 15, 09:03 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Jeff Henig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 954
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

"At Rock Bottom ...life begins" was my first recording project to be
released to the public, and it's now in the can, so to speak, so I want
to say a couple of things about what I've learned here.

1: Under no circumstances ever should a commitment to a release date be
made before the physical product is in the hand of the one making the
commitment.

Oi! I thought I had things on a pretty good schedule, so I felt
comfortable making arrangements and announcements. Then life happened.
Change of job, change of living arrangements, change of life schedule
all conspired to stop the recording process and just about scuttled the
project.

I ended up trying to complete about 75% of the bugger in about a month
of part-time duty, with the last available weekend taken up with bass
vocals, lead vocals AND mixdown.

Never again!

2: Take the time to get the project recorded EXACTLY the way you hear it
in your mind.

I had so many things I wanted to do, like using my own voice to mimic
instruments and experiment with effects, but I ended up using a lot more
samples and virtual choirs and beatboxes than I originally intended.

3: Check mix environments are CHECK MIX ENVIRONMENTS, not your go-to fix
it environments.

I went and listened to my mixdown CDs in the car to see how well it
translated. I ended up completely changing the mix based upon what I
heard in the car, rather than trusting that it was just going to sound
that way in the car. It turned out later that the EQ in the car was a
bit off, resulting in the issues I heard in there.

4: Add a mix engineer along with the mastering engineer so that you can
have ANOTHER set of ears before release.

I seem to mix the bass tracks way too hot. This was related to me by the
mastering engineer regarding the project as well as my FOH sound tech
regarding my performance tracks. Evidently, a total remix is in order
for my performance tracks, and if I want to release my project on vinyl,
I'll need to remix as well.

5: Don't try to do too much at once.

My voice was fine on the bass tracks, but was way ragged on a lot of my
leads. Again, not enough time taken to get it right.

6: Trust my ears more.

A very good friend helped me out a LOT by giving me a pair of Event
Opals. (Yeah, there's a backstory there--we're pretty much brothers. I
still about passed out when he ordered them for me.)

I learned a lot from this NG about sound treating the room, what good
equipment sounds like, proper recording techniques, and so on--but I
still had misgivings about my voice in the lead vocal track. I should've
trusted my ears to get it right, rather than over-obsessing about my
tone and how others might hear it.

Thanks so much to all of you for being my real world recording professors.

--
---Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

Ads
  #2  
Old April 25th 15, 09:59 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Don Pearce[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:07:38 +0000 (UTC), Jeff Henig
> wrote:

>BTW: I don't say all of this to say that I think this project is bad. IMO
>it's not a train wreck, but it could've been better.
>
>7: Let a finished project be finished.
>
><facepalm>
>
>
>Jeff Henig > wrote:
>> "At Rock Bottom ...life begins" was my first recording project to be
>> released to the public, and it's now in the can, so to speak, so I want
>> to say a couple of things about what I've learned here.
>>
>> 1: Under no circumstances ever should a commitment to a release date be
>> made before the physical product is in the hand of the one making the commitment.
>>
>> Oi! I thought I had things on a pretty good schedule, so I felt
>> comfortable making arrangements and announcements. Then life happened.
>> Change of job, change of living arrangements, change of life schedule all
>> conspired to stop the recording process and just about scuttled the project.
>>
>> I ended up trying to complete about 75% of the bugger in about a month of
>> part-time duty, with the last available weekend taken up with bass
>> vocals, lead vocals AND mixdown.
>>
>> Never again!
>>
>> 2: Take the time to get the project recorded EXACTLY the way you hear it in your mind.
>>
>> I had so many things I wanted to do, like using my own voice to mimic
>> instruments and experiment with effects, but I ended up using a lot more
>> samples and virtual choirs and beatboxes than I originally intended.
>>
>> 3: Check mix environments are CHECK MIX ENVIRONMENTS, not your go-to fix it environments.
>>
>> I went and listened to my mixdown CDs in the car to see how well it
>> translated. I ended up completely changing the mix based upon what I
>> heard in the car, rather than trusting that it was just going to sound
>> that way in the car. It turned out later that the EQ in the car was a bit
>> off, resulting in the issues I heard in there.
>>
>> 4: Add a mix engineer along with the mastering engineer so that you can
>> have ANOTHER set of ears before release.
>>
>> I seem to mix the bass tracks way too hot. This was related to me by the
>> mastering engineer regarding the project as well as my FOH sound tech
>> regarding my performance tracks. Evidently, a total remix is in order for
>> my performance tracks, and if I want to release my project on vinyl, I'll
>> need to remix as well.
>>
>> 5: Don't try to do too much at once.
>>
>> My voice was fine on the bass tracks, but was way ragged on a lot of my
>> leads. Again, not enough time taken to get it right.
>>
>> 6: Trust my ears more.
>>
>> A very good friend helped me out a LOT by giving me a pair of Event
>> Opals. (Yeah, there's a backstory there--we're pretty much brothers. I
>> still about passed out when he ordered them for me.)
>>
>> I learned a lot from this NG about sound treating the room, what good
>> equipment sounds like, proper recording techniques, and so on--but I
>> still had misgivings about my voice in the lead vocal track. I should've
>> trusted my ears to get it right, rather than over-obsessing about my tone
>> and how others might hear it.
>>
>> Thanks so much to all of you for being my real world recording professors.


One more for you. When you are convinced you have the perfect amount
of reverb, halve it.

d
  #3  
Old April 26th 15, 01:11 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Frank Stearns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

(Don Pearce) writes:

snips

>One more for you. When you are convinced you have the perfect amount
>of reverb, halve it.


Yes and no.

MP3s will often mess up reverb (killing pretty tails and making reverb sound
stunted -- or sometimes nearly deleting it completely).

Some listening environments will do the same -- OR, they'll make reverb MORE
apparent because terrible things are happening to the center of the image, leaving
more L-minus-R than there really should be.

Some added suggestions:

1. Do a reverb check with multiple monitoring environments, including headphones.

2. Figure out how much reverb you really want, but then build it by using LESS from
two or MORE separate instances of reverb, both parallel but also on occasion serial.
Don't try to make one reverb instance do all the work, especially in the digital
world.

3. Think MUSICALLY about the reverb. Don's complaint is well-founded when the reverb
color and "feel" simply does not blend, go with, or sound natural with, the source
material. OTHO, when it *does* blend appropriately, you can use quite a bit
(assuming "wet" is appropriate for the music).

There's no formula for this -- you either hear what I'm talking about or you don't.

Some good practice, though, is to attend live acoustic events (UNAMPLIFIED) in a
really good acoustic space. PAY ATTENTION to what the room is sounding like; listen
to how the natural room sound is (hopefully) adding to the MUSIC. And, if you can,
move around the space; listen to how things change as you move in and out of the
near and far fields.

4. Dissect your reverb and the settings you might have for it -- of course the
reverb time, but also pre-delay, direct delays, near and far field delays, HF and LF
EQ and damping, density, etc, etc. See how adjusting those can help (or hurt) your
reverb sound.

And just because you get a good reverb sound on one project does not mean it will be
ideal for some other project.

There's a great deal more to reverb than just turning up (or down) a reverb send and
hoping for the best.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--
  #4  
Old April 26th 15, 02:56 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

Is there a place to hear it?
  #5  
Old April 26th 15, 03:34 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

Yes, found it in another thread. I like the music.

I think one overall EQ tilt arrond 2k pivot spot (-12 @ 20Hz; +12 @ 20 kHz) would
do it good.
It may "sound" too drastic on paper but you'll get used to it in a minute.
After that, some more adjustment in specific bands, like 3 kHz and 80 Hz...

Now what that will do to reverb ..., you will hear.
  #6  
Old April 26th 15, 07:07 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

"Jeff Henig" > skrev i en meddelelse
...

> Luxey > wrote:
>> Yes, found it in another thread. I like the music.


>> I think one overall EQ tilt arrond 2k pivot spot (-12 @ 20Hz; +12 @ 20
>> kHz) would
>> do it good.
>> It may "sound" too drastic on paper but you'll get used to it in a
>> minute.
>> After that, some more adjustment in specific bands, like 3 kHz and 80
>> Hz...


>> Now what that will do to reverb ..., you will hear.


> Thanks, Luxey! I'm glad you like it.


> Now that I've released it, I don't plan to change the actual release, but
> I'll definitely give this a shot as a learning exercise.


> Should I do what you're suggesting even after pulling the bass tracks back
> in the mix?


Let it be. Leave it be. Move on. You already have. And that said while not
yet listened. After a glance of listening I may want to mix you next time, I
can't listen today.

> ---Jeff


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



  #7  
Old April 26th 15, 07:11 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Don Pearce[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 21:20:54 +0000 (UTC), Jeff Henig
> wrote:

>Don Pearce > wrote:
>
>>
>> One more for you. When you are convinced you have the perfect amount
>> of reverb, halve it.
>>
>> d

>
>Uh, oh.
>
>Did I use a lot?


No. It is just a general problem that when adding reverb we tend to
lose track of how much we have used during the stress of a session.
Listening back a few days later it is quite usual to hear that it is
in fact overdone, and it needs to be backed off a bit. My advice is
just a time-saver.

d
  #8  
Old April 26th 15, 09:28 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

If all you change in remix are levels, I
think you would still end with not enough
hi end. So, for each individual track,
try leaving in, or adding, as much hi end
as you can, before find it to be
obviously wrong, distracting ... , Or, do
it just enough to hear the click and be
aware of the air, of each, ...

That would be my approach.
  #9  
Old April 26th 15, 04:57 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,335
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

Jeff Henig wrote:
> Don Pearce > wrote:
>
>>
>> One more for you. When you are convinced you have the perfect amount
>> of reverb, halve it.
>>
>> d

>
> Uh, oh.
>
> Did I use a lot?
>


I read Don as quoting a general rule.

--
Les Cargill

  #10  
Old April 26th 15, 08:38 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Don Pearce[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default 1st Project Lessons Learned--So Far

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 10:57:14 -0500, Les Cargill
> wrote:

>Jeff Henig wrote:
>> Don Pearce > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> One more for you. When you are convinced you have the perfect amount
>>> of reverb, halve it.
>>>
>>> d

>>
>> Uh, oh.
>>
>> Did I use a lot?
>>

>
>I read Don as quoting a general rule.


That was the idea. Of course as you get better, the amount you need to
back of decreases, until eventually you are getting it right straight
off.

d
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What I have learned about room EQ MD Audio Opinions 12 November 8th 05 11:50 PM
What Corey Greenburg Learned From His Days At Stereophile? ;-) Arny Krueger Audio Opinions 95 April 26th 05 05:01 PM
Fourier Analyses, or, how the Orchestra learned to play "Jet Engine" Ryan Pro Audio 43 October 21st 04 12:44 AM
Three things I learned buying audio gear on eBay Shawn Pro Audio 60 April 12th 04 12:49 AM
Lesson Learned EganMedia Pro Audio 11 July 15th 03 04:51 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 AudioBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.