On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

Yes, there's probably a tube or two still in outer space.

"Arny Krueger" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

snip quacking

Ive read the same agenda for years. You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don’t you ever travel? You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase? What equipment did you
compare it with?

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

snip quacking

Ive read the same agenda for years. You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don’t you ever travel? You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase? What equipment did you
compare it with?

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

snip quacking

Ive read the same agenda for years. You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don’t you ever travel? You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase? What equipment did you
compare it with?

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

snip quacking

Ive read the same agenda for years. You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don’t you ever travel? You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase? What equipment did you
compare it with?

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.

Sooo... what are the “audible” “characteristics” “all tubes”
share in this regard when they are not overdriven?

Because there are slight tonal and other audible differences
between manufacture brands of tubes (Sovtek, Mullards,
Dragon, etc.), and design types (6DJ8/6922 or
6550/6550A/KT88/KT90/KT100, etc.) how do you audibly
recognize this universal signature present when the tube
is not under undo-stress?

If audible microphonic distortions are taking place at
nominal play levels wouldn’t this indicate a bad tube
or old age other problems... how do you audibly recognize
your one-size-fits-all moniker that's alway present?

There are mechanical shrouding devices to minimize
these types of distortion, which have you personally
tried?

And the big one, what empirical experiences of equipment
in your home setup has lead you to this universal gross
generalization?

Take all the time you need to reply .

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.

Sooo... what are the “audible” “characteristics” “all tubes”
share in this regard when they are not overdriven?

Because there are slight tonal and other audible differences
between manufacture brands of tubes (Sovtek, Mullards,
Dragon, etc.), and design types (6DJ8/6922 or
6550/6550A/KT88/KT90/KT100, etc.) how do you audibly
recognize this universal signature present when the tube
is not under undo-stress?

If audible microphonic distortions are taking place at
nominal play levels wouldn’t this indicate a bad tube
or old age other problems... how do you audibly recognize
your one-size-fits-all moniker that's alway present?

There are mechanical shrouding devices to minimize
these types of distortion, which have you personally
tried?

And the big one, what empirical experiences of equipment
in your home setup has lead you to this universal gross
generalization?

Take all the time you need to reply .

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.

Sooo... what are the “audible” “characteristics” “all tubes”
share in this regard when they are not overdriven?

Because there are slight tonal and other audible differences
between manufacture brands of tubes (Sovtek, Mullards,
Dragon, etc.), and design types (6DJ8/6922 or
6550/6550A/KT88/KT90/KT100, etc.) how do you audibly
recognize this universal signature present when the tube
is not under undo-stress?

If audible microphonic distortions are taking place at
nominal play levels wouldn’t this indicate a bad tube
or old age other problems... how do you audibly recognize
your one-size-fits-all moniker that's alway present?

There are mechanical shrouding devices to minimize
these types of distortion, which have you personally
tried?

And the big one, what empirical experiences of equipment
in your home setup has lead you to this universal gross
generalization?

Take all the time you need to reply .

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.

Sooo... what are the “audible” “characteristics” “all tubes”
share in this regard when they are not overdriven?

Because there are slight tonal and other audible differences
between manufacture brands of tubes (Sovtek, Mullards,
Dragon, etc.), and design types (6DJ8/6922 or
6550/6550A/KT88/KT90/KT100, etc.) how do you audibly
recognize this universal signature present when the tube
is not under undo-stress?

If audible microphonic distortions are taking place at
nominal play levels wouldn’t this indicate a bad tube
or old age other problems... how do you audibly recognize
your one-size-fits-all moniker that's alway present?

There are mechanical shrouding devices to minimize
these types of distortion, which have you personally
tried?

And the big one, what empirical experiences of equipment
in your home setup has lead you to this universal gross
generalization?

Take all the time you need to reply .

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted
with appropriate inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was
making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used
in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like
that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hid whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head
tell
him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are
different. The plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are
identical, although the guitar amp may well have higher levels
(aside from SETs). --
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an
SET may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage.

So what, we were talking about distortion.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way either.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

Note that when cornered, Yustabe tries to change the discussion from
one of sound quality and kind of distortion, to design. Did he learn
this
trick from Weil or did he teach Weil?

We are talking about the the difference in sound.

Please, tell us again that they sound the same

Here's a news flash Yustabe. It's that all good amplifiers sound the same,
not that all bad amplifiers sound the same.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted
with appropriate inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was
making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used
in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like
that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hid whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head
tell
him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are
different. The plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are
identical, although the guitar amp may well have higher levels
(aside from SETs). --
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an
SET may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage.

So what, we were talking about distortion.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way either.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

Note that when cornered, Yustabe tries to change the discussion from
one of sound quality and kind of distortion, to design. Did he learn
this
trick from Weil or did he teach Weil?

We are talking about the the difference in sound.

Please, tell us again that they sound the same

Here's a news flash Yustabe. It's that all good amplifiers sound the same,
not that all bad amplifiers sound the same.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted
with appropriate inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was
making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used
in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like
that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hid whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head
tell
him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are
different. The plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are
identical, although the guitar amp may well have higher levels
(aside from SETs). --
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an
SET may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage.

So what, we were talking about distortion.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way either.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

Note that when cornered, Yustabe tries to change the discussion from
one of sound quality and kind of distortion, to design. Did he learn
this
trick from Weil or did he teach Weil?

We are talking about the the difference in sound.

Please, tell us again that they sound the same

Here's a news flash Yustabe. It's that all good amplifiers sound the same,
not that all bad amplifiers sound the same.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted
with appropriate inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was
making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used
in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like
that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hid whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head
tell
him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are
different. The plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are
identical, although the guitar amp may well have higher levels
(aside from SETs). --
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an
SET may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage.

So what, we were talking about distortion.

Home audio tube amps are not designed that way either.

So what, we were talking about distortion, not design. BTW, you're
wrong.

Note that when cornered, Yustabe tries to change the discussion from
one of sound quality and kind of distortion, to design. Did he learn
this
trick from Weil or did he teach Weil?

We are talking about the the difference in sound.

Please, tell us again that they sound the same

Here's a news flash Yustabe. It's that all good amplifiers sound the same,
not that all bad amplifiers sound the same.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar
player might use is useful for creating music. The
distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi creates, is just
distortion. That some persons like that distortion is their
choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hide whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.

Now, that's a lie.



IDIOT
You are the one who told us about it.

OK Yustabe, quote me saying that my house has a crumbling foundation, with
proper cite from google. If you can't the topic is dropped because you've
shown that you are incapable of understanding simple statements, so there's
no need for me to confuse you any more.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar
player might use is useful for creating music. The
distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi creates, is just
distortion. That some persons like that distortion is their
choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hide whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.

Now, that's a lie.



IDIOT
You are the one who told us about it.

OK Yustabe, quote me saying that my house has a crumbling foundation, with
proper cite from google. If you can't the topic is dropped because you've
shown that you are incapable of understanding simple statements, so there's
no need for me to confuse you any more.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar
player might use is useful for creating music. The
distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi creates, is just
distortion. That some persons like that distortion is their
choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hide whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.

Now, that's a lie.



IDIOT
You are the one who told us about it.

OK Yustabe, quote me saying that my house has a crumbling foundation, with
proper cite from google. If you can't the topic is dropped because you've
shown that you are incapable of understanding simple statements, so there's
no need for me to confuse you any more.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar
player might use is useful for creating music. The
distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi creates, is just
distortion. That some persons like that distortion is their
choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack
of understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that
he's always run and hide whenever I asked him about his
educational credentials. He knows more about audio than I do
because that's what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp
sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.

Now, that's a lie.



IDIOT
You are the one who told us about it.

OK Yustabe, quote me saying that my house has a crumbling foundation, with
proper cite from google. If you can't the topic is dropped because you've
shown that you are incapable of understanding simple statements, so there's
no need for me to confuse you any more.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:29 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

No, it just says that one of your hands is holding your penis and the
other isn't.

Are you left or righthanded?

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:29 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

No, it just says that one of your hands is holding your penis and the
other isn't.

Are you left or righthanded?

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:29 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

No, it just says that one of your hands is holding your penis and the
other isn't.

Are you left or righthanded?

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:29 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so
they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know
how guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the
occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to
deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The
distortion
in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".


Yes, tube home amps and tube guitar amps are different.

My left and right hands are different. I guess that means that according to
you, one of them isn't a hand, right Yustabe?

No, it just says that one of your hands is holding your penis and the
other isn't.

Are you left or righthanded?

"Powell" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Powell" wrote in message


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

More distortion and noise than is necessary, often in audible amounts.

no response from Powell

If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor.

As if clipping is the only form of audible distortion.

no response from Powell

Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization...

What's unclear about the fact that many of us were active audiophiles
when tubes were all there was?

no response from Powell


or is this pure conjecture?

Let's talk about your raging hypocrisy Powell. You've attacked others
on the grounds of their education, their professional status, their
personal finances, their social class, etc.

Yet Powell, when asked the same questions that you ask others so
glibly, and that you assert false answers for, you run and hide!

Powell, how long do you expect to escape the consequences of your
hypocrisy?

I've read the same agenda for years.

I have too Powell, and your hypocrisy and evasions are getting very old.

You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

There's no dogma here, just cold hard facts Powell. You quack like a duck
about others and then evade the same questions about yourself.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don't you ever travel?

Of course I travel, but why would I waste my vacation time in high end audio
shops?

You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase?

It's a matter of public record in google.

What equipment did you compare it with?

Since its a big list, that would be an ever bigger list. Once you answer a
few simple questions about yourself that you've been long evading Powell,
we can talk about it.

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

Quit quacking Powell. Put up or shut up.

"Powell" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Powell" wrote in message


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

More distortion and noise than is necessary, often in audible amounts.

no response from Powell

If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor.

As if clipping is the only form of audible distortion.

no response from Powell

Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization...

What's unclear about the fact that many of us were active audiophiles
when tubes were all there was?

no response from Powell


or is this pure conjecture?

Let's talk about your raging hypocrisy Powell. You've attacked others
on the grounds of their education, their professional status, their
personal finances, their social class, etc.

Yet Powell, when asked the same questions that you ask others so
glibly, and that you assert false answers for, you run and hide!

Powell, how long do you expect to escape the consequences of your
hypocrisy?

I've read the same agenda for years.

I have too Powell, and your hypocrisy and evasions are getting very old.

You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

There's no dogma here, just cold hard facts Powell. You quack like a duck
about others and then evade the same questions about yourself.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don't you ever travel?

Of course I travel, but why would I waste my vacation time in high end audio
shops?

You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase?

It's a matter of public record in google.

What equipment did you compare it with?

Since its a big list, that would be an ever bigger list. Once you answer a
few simple questions about yourself that you've been long evading Powell,
we can talk about it.

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

Quit quacking Powell. Put up or shut up.

"Powell" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Powell" wrote in message


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

More distortion and noise than is necessary, often in audible amounts.

no response from Powell

If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor.

As if clipping is the only form of audible distortion.

no response from Powell

Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization...

What's unclear about the fact that many of us were active audiophiles
when tubes were all there was?

no response from Powell


or is this pure conjecture?

Let's talk about your raging hypocrisy Powell. You've attacked others
on the grounds of their education, their professional status, their
personal finances, their social class, etc.

Yet Powell, when asked the same questions that you ask others so
glibly, and that you assert false answers for, you run and hide!

Powell, how long do you expect to escape the consequences of your
hypocrisy?

I've read the same agenda for years.

I have too Powell, and your hypocrisy and evasions are getting very old.

You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

There's no dogma here, just cold hard facts Powell. You quack like a duck
about others and then evade the same questions about yourself.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don't you ever travel?

Of course I travel, but why would I waste my vacation time in high end audio
shops?

You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase?

It's a matter of public record in google.

What equipment did you compare it with?

Since its a big list, that would be an ever bigger list. Once you answer a
few simple questions about yourself that you've been long evading Powell,
we can talk about it.

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

Quit quacking Powell. Put up or shut up.

"Powell" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Powell" wrote in message


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these "specific"
audible "characteristics" of all tubes?

More distortion and noise than is necessary, often in audible amounts.

no response from Powell

If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor.

As if clipping is the only form of audible distortion.

no response from Powell

Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization...

What's unclear about the fact that many of us were active audiophiles
when tubes were all there was?

no response from Powell


or is this pure conjecture?

Let's talk about your raging hypocrisy Powell. You've attacked others
on the grounds of their education, their professional status, their
personal finances, their social class, etc.

Yet Powell, when asked the same questions that you ask others so
glibly, and that you assert false answers for, you run and hide!

Powell, how long do you expect to escape the consequences of your
hypocrisy?

I've read the same agenda for years.

I have too Powell, and your hypocrisy and evasions are getting very old.

You are in
desperate need of new empirical experiences to
support your dogma.

There's no dogma here, just cold hard facts Powell. You quack like a duck
about others and then evade the same questions about yourself.

While Detroit has a pitiful selection of high end
audio shops, don't you ever travel?

Of course I travel, but why would I waste my vacation time in high end audio
shops?

You can
have anything delivered, too. You've written that you
have purchased $15K on equipment lately, what
did you purchase?

It's a matter of public record in google.

What equipment did you compare it with?

Since its a big list, that would be an ever bigger list. Once you answer a
few simple questions about yourself that you've been long evading Powell,
we can talk about it.

That's what we want... meat on the table and
not the small portions of carrots you deliver .

Quit quacking Powell. Put up or shut up.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:52:40 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!

The character of the sound form each type sounds quite different.

No, it doesn't. A particular guitar amp won't sound the same as a
particular hi-fi amp, but the distortion mechanisms are identical.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:52:40 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!

The character of the sound form each type sounds quite different.

No, it doesn't. A particular guitar amp won't sound the same as a
particular hi-fi amp, but the distortion mechanisms are identical.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:52:40 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!

The character of the sound form each type sounds quite different.

No, it doesn't. A particular guitar amp won't sound the same as a
particular hi-fi amp, but the distortion mechanisms are identical.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:52:40 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!

The character of the sound form each type sounds quite different.

No, it doesn't. A particular guitar amp won't sound the same as a
particular hi-fi amp, but the distortion mechanisms are identical.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

No, he's quite right, in the gross sense. OTOH, all the *working
parts* certainly do, and you could certainly argue the exact case for
double triodes, where you have two tubes which certainly *do* co-exist
in a vacuum.........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

No, he's quite right, in the gross sense. OTOH, all the *working
parts* certainly do, and you could certainly argue the exact case for
double triodes, where you have two tubes which certainly *do* co-exist
in a vacuum.........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

No, he's quite right, in the gross sense. OTOH, all the *working
parts* certainly do, and you could certainly argue the exact case for
double triodes, where you have two tubes which certainly *do* co-exist
in a vacuum.........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:55:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

Yes, there's probably a tube or two still in outer space.

Still as dumb as a rock, huh Vile?

Actually, there *are* lots of thermionic valves (tubes to you) which
live in vacuum chambers, and don't have envelopes of their own.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:55:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

Yes, there's probably a tube or two still in outer space.

Still as dumb as a rock, huh Vile?

Actually, there *are* lots of thermionic valves (tubes to you) which
live in vacuum chambers, and don't have envelopes of their own.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:55:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

Yes, there's probably a tube or two still in outer space.

Still as dumb as a rock, huh Vile?

Actually, there *are* lots of thermionic valves (tubes to you) which
live in vacuum chambers, and don't have envelopes of their own.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:55:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:59:58 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

We've got to memorialize this post somewhere. It's an all-time classic.

Yes, there's probably a tube or two still in outer space.

Still as dumb as a rock, huh Vile?

Actually, there *are* lots of thermionic valves (tubes to you) which
live in vacuum chambers, and don't have envelopes of their own.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering