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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970
HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Yes the 9857 is a great unit, but for what you asking for it to do you can
step down to the 9856. With the versalink adapter you can do RCA in to the both units. The Ipod connector works great. You can also do XM on the on both unit's. 9857 http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/product...model=CDA-9857 9857 http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/product...model=CDA-9856 Versalink http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/product...KCA-121B&tab=D "ScottReeve" wrote in message ups.com... I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970 HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
I'm sure the 9857 would be a great HU and it WILL accommodate both iPod and
sat radio. But here goes my standard rant about all the new Alpine units (the regulars have heard all this before)... I have owned three Alpines over the last 12 years and think Alpine is GREAT. My current Alpine is the 9853 and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! It is everything I could ever want in a HU. I have NEVER had a problem with any of the three Alpines I have owned (in fact, the only reason I replaced my last one, the 7863, was so that I had MP3 capability). The one before that (a 7939) was stolen so I HAD to replace it. But, IMHO, Alpine has gone and SHOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT with all the current models. For some reason, Alpine has decided to do away with Bass Engine Plus and Bass Engine Pro on ALL their current HU's (even the high-end ones). The 9855 and 9853 (mine) are the LAST models to offer BassEngine Pro. Now they just offer "Bass Engine" which is nothing more than adjustable bass and treble frequencies. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Bass Engine Pro and Plus had time alignment features that I find INDISPENSABLE. Time alignment gives you the ability to subtly delay certain speakers (in milliseconds) so that all the sound hits your ears at the same time. I LOVE IT. With TA engaged, my center image is ROCK SOLID. My soundstage is perfectly etched in space before me, and ALL the sound seems to come from in front of me. With TA not engaged, my soundstage seems diffused, my center image is all over the place, and the low bass (from my subs) sound like they are OBVIOUSLY coming from the rear of the car. Needless to say, I find TA a feature I cannot live without. Bass Engine Plus/Pro also have incredibly flexible crossover features AND a 5 band parametric EQ (on Bass Engine Pro, which is what I have) with is a TRUE parametric EQ with 1/3 octave frequency selection and "Q" function. Plain old "Bass Engine" has none of this. Why did Alpine do away with these WONDERFUL features? Beats me. My guess is that consumer feedback told them it was too confusing to use. True, it did take extensive reading of the manual to master all the functions, but to me, it is SO WORTH IT!!! And, like all things, once you become accustomed to it, it's easy. For the last 10 years when anyone would ask me "What's the best head unit?", I would ALWAYS put Alpine at the top of the list. Not anymore. If you are like me, and like lots of sound shaping features, the new Alpines ARE NOT FOR YOU. But if you like your head units simple, then I'm sure you will be pleased with the new Alpines. I'm sure the quality that Alpine is famous for is still there. But the reason I tell you all this is because if I were in the market RIGHT NOW, Alpine would be off my list. MOSFET "ScottReeve" wrote in message ups.com... I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970 HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not
get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: I'm sure the 9857 would be a great HU and it WILL accommodate both iPod and sat radio. But here goes my standard rant about all the new Alpine units (the regulars have heard all this before)... I have owned three Alpines over the last 12 years and think Alpine is GREAT. My current Alpine is the 9853 and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! It is everything I could ever want in a HU. I have NEVER had a problem with any of the three Alpines I have owned (in fact, the only reason I replaced my last one, the 7863, was so that I had MP3 capability). The one before that (a 7939) was stolen so I HAD to replace it. But, IMHO, Alpine has gone and SHOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT with all the current models. For some reason, Alpine has decided to do away with Bass Engine Plus and Bass Engine Pro on ALL their current HU's (even the high-end ones). The 9855 and 9853 (mine) are the LAST models to offer BassEngine Pro. Now they just offer "Bass Engine" which is nothing more than adjustable bass and treble frequencies. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Bass Engine Pro and Plus had time alignment features that I find INDISPENSABLE. Time alignment gives you the ability to subtly delay certain speakers (in milliseconds) so that all the sound hits your ears at the same time. I LOVE IT. With TA engaged, my center image is ROCK SOLID. My soundstage is perfectly etched in space before me, and ALL the sound seems to come from in front of me. With TA not engaged, my soundstage seems diffused, my center image is all over the place, and the low bass (from my subs) sound like they are OBVIOUSLY coming from the rear of the car. Needless to say, I find TA a feature I cannot live without. Bass Engine Plus/Pro also have incredibly flexible crossover features AND a 5 band parametric EQ (on Bass Engine Pro, which is what I have) with is a TRUE parametric EQ with 1/3 octave frequency selection and "Q" function. Plain old "Bass Engine" has none of this. Why did Alpine do away with these WONDERFUL features? Beats me. My guess is that consumer feedback told them it was too confusing to use. True, it did take extensive reading of the manual to master all the functions, but to me, it is SO WORTH IT!!! And, like all things, once you become accustomed to it, it's easy. For the last 10 years when anyone would ask me "What's the best head unit?", I would ALWAYS put Alpine at the top of the list. Not anymore. If you are like me, and like lots of sound shaping features, the new Alpines ARE NOT FOR YOU. But if you like your head units simple, then I'm sure you will be pleased with the new Alpines. I'm sure the quality that Alpine is famous for is still there. But the reason I tell you all this is because if I were in the market RIGHT NOW, Alpine would be off my list. MOSFET "ScottReeve" wrote in message oups.com... I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970 HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not
get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. I'm so glad Howdy is part of RAC! His posts are always so bright and cheerful. He just makes the world a better place! MOSFET |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
I'm so glad Mosfet is part of RAC! His posts are always so full of opinions
and so little fact. He just makes the world a better place! In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. I'm so glad Howdy is part of RAC! His posts are always so bright and cheerful. He just makes the world a better place! MOSFET |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Yah, whatever. Still using duct-tape to fix those POS American cars of
yours? MOSFET (this REALLY ****es him off everybody, watch, he'll say something disgusting about my wife now or try to sell my car again, but I promise you, it will be REALLY nasty....) "Captain Howdy" wrote in message ... I'm so glad Mosfet is part of RAC! His posts are always so full of opinions and so little fact. He just makes the world a better place! In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. I'm so glad Howdy is part of RAC! His posts are always so bright and cheerful. He just makes the world a better place! MOSFET |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
There is no duct-tape in or on my cars, any of them. POS American cars? What
do you know about cars other then nothing? How many classic Japanese cars have you seen rolling down the streets near you and what is the ratio to American cars? Have you read any classic Japanese automotive magazines lately? Did you know that the Japanese just started putting out cars and trucks with v8 engines? Have you seen the military or police or even taxi companies depend on Japanese vehicles? For once stop talking **** about things that you know nothing about. Do you know anything about your car other then what the dealer charges to repair it? I repair my own, other then automatic transmissions, they are too far out there for me. But needless to say I've forgotten more about cars then you'll ever know and I sure don't need you to tell me what's POS or not. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Yah, whatever. Still using duct-tape to fix those POS American cars of yours? MOSFET (this REALLY ****es him off everybody, watch, he'll say something disgusting about my wife now or try to sell my car again, but I promise you, it will be REALLY nasty....) "Captain Howdy" wrote in message . .. I'm so glad Mosfet is part of RAC! His posts are always so full of opinions and so little fact. He just makes the world a better place! In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. I'm so glad Howdy is part of RAC! His posts are always so bright and cheerful. He just makes the world a better place! MOSFET |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
You're right, I don't know **** about cars. But I'm not the one who
duct-taped his rear-view mirror back on (be careful before you deny that, I MAY have saved a picture). Anyway, I'm in a goofy mood right now so I'm ****ing with you just to amuse myself (because frankly you're just TOO easy to annoy), but I know this little game of mine ****es the others off so I'm going to stop now. See ya, Howdy MOSFET |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
The pictire that you posted had no duct tape you silly moron.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~mrled/mirror.jpg Yeah I do have a low tolerance for stupid people, always did. Did you want me to start annoying you, we all know that you don't like it, you bully. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: You're right, I don't know **** about cars. But I'm not the one who duct-taped his rear-view mirror back on (be careful before you deny that, I MAY have saved a picture). Anyway, I'm in a goofy mood right now so I'm ****ing with you just to amuse myself (because frankly you're just TOO easy to annoy), but I know this little game of mine ****es the others off so I'm going to stop now. See ya, Howdy MOSFET |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Hello. About the bass engine on Alpines...
I own a 9815 from 2003 and you could pry it off my cold, hard, dead hands! Actually, my first unit was destroyed in a car fire and I repurchased another unit off eBay in 2005 for the new car! I like it exactly because of the bass engine. Most (all?) amps now have crossovers built-in but if your gonna use some or all of the HU amp channels, it won't do you any good. I have this question : you seem to no longer like the new Alpines HU, but which other brand/model have functions similar to Bass engine? In other word, is Alpine the bad guy or they only follow the trend? -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Sorry to step in...
Taxi *needs* to be bulky, which Japaneese car usually are not. Japaneese car don't use V8 because V8 are not required nor desirable (for the environment) in any reasonably sized car. -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Taxi companies use the newer midsize Chevy impala, just fine, How do you
explain that? V8's are not required for what? Japan pollutes more then any other country in the world. In article , (Eric Desrochers) wrote: Sorry to step in... Taxi *needs* to be bulky, which Japaneese car usually are not. Japaneese car don't use V8 because V8 are not required nor desirable (for the environment) in any reasonably sized car. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
In
other word, is Alpine the bad guy or they only follow the trend? -- You raise an interesting point. Yes, virtually every amp these days contain built in X-overs so I can see that feature not being all that important in a HU any more. The exception being, of course, if you were only using ONE amp to drive a sub and wanted the speakers driven by the HU crossed over at a certain frequency (high-pass), then a built in HU X-over might come in REALLY handy. But actually I have found that the other big HU manufactures (Sony, Eclipse, Kenwood, Pioneer)have been ADDING sound shaping features over the years. MANY now have some sort of time alignment and sophisticated EQ's. So no, Alpine APPEARS to be alone in this "dumbing down" approach of the head unit. Again, I believe they saw their own units becoming VERY complicated to use and very frustrating for SOME of their customers. They probably also noticed that Alpine was not alone in this common consumer complaint. So I see this as a marketing strategy. They are trying to appeal to the person who wants compatibility with their iPod, Bluetooth, sat radio, HD radio, etc., but wants it all to be very simple to operate. Sort of like "it's so smart, anyone can operate it" kind of approach. And I can see this strategy working for many consumers, especially those who feel a bit overwhelmed by all the new technology and choices out there. BUT I DON'T LIKE IT!!! To me, Bass Engine Pro was ingenious. It was like someone who REALLY understood IASCA rules and what it takes for a great sounding system developed it (I always wonder if Steve Brown had a hand in it's development as he worked very closely with Alpine). It had EVERYTHING you could want to shape the sound of your music. Maybe Alpine will bring some of those features back. I hope so. But if not, I'm afraid my next deck will not be an Alpine. MOSFET |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Also, you have to wonder if the INCREDIBLE popularity of the MP3 format has
made sound quality no longer a major concern. I am not the only one who has made this observation. Someone did just recently here but I forgot who it was. The rational may be that if people are willing to accept second rate audio sources (MP3), why bother with high-end sound shaping features? That may also be part of Alpine's calculation. But if it is, I disagree as I think the MP3 format sounds GREAT (as long as the bit-rate is high enough). I guess Alpine's use of BBE again in some of their models is an attempt to try and compensate for what they perceive as inadequacies in the MP3 format. MOSFET "Eric Desrochers" wrote in message ... Hello. About the bass engine on Alpines... I own a 9815 from 2003 and you could pry it off my cold, hard, dead hands! Actually, my first unit was destroyed in a car fire and I repurchased another unit off eBay in 2005 for the new car! I like it exactly because of the bass engine. Most (all?) amps now have crossovers built-in but if your gonna use some or all of the HU amp channels, it won't do you any good. I have this question : you seem to no longer like the new Alpines HU, but which other brand/model have functions similar to Bass engine? In other word, is Alpine the bad guy or they only follow the trend? -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
My opinion on this differs somewhat. I have had Alpines with time alignment
and other HU's as well. My current HU's have EQ's with one being a parametric. My personal experience is this: 1/ Time alignment is not for everyone. I never used this feature as in my experience it actually degraded the sound (in my particular experience). Alpine's return to including BBE far outweighs the exclusion of time alignment. In fact, time alignment would be at odds with the operation of BBE. Time alignment does nothing for inherent phase delays between highs and lows whereas BBE does. The current BBE feature is much better than time alignment IMO. 2/ Parametric EQ's, and multi band EQ's are far over rated IMO. They are overused and in most cases set improperly. And with BBE the need for any EQ is drastically reduced. My current parametric is only used to bump the base levels at 80hz by a couple of db and to reduce it by 1db at 4000hz. In other words, if it were not there I would really be no worse off. If the speakers are properly selected, matched and installed correctly there really should be little need for a parametric or multi band EQ. Alpine's current EQ setup should do just fine to tweak the common problem areas. 3/ As far as crossovers go, most amps have more than adequate xovers built in. They are really redundant on an HU. If one wants to biamp a set of components then it is a simple matter to use an external crossover (which are more flexible and probably better anyway). In short, Alpine's new offerings offer very high sound quality without burdening the units with features that are largely unnecessary and redundant in nature. Unless one just has to have a wide assortment of gizmos and tweaks to play with you are probably no worse off without them. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I'm sure the 9857 would be a great HU and it WILL accommodate both iPod and sat radio. But here goes my standard rant about all the new Alpine units (the regulars have heard all this before)... I have owned three Alpines over the last 12 years and think Alpine is GREAT. My current Alpine is the 9853 and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! It is everything I could ever want in a HU. I have NEVER had a problem with any of the three Alpines I have owned (in fact, the only reason I replaced my last one, the 7863, was so that I had MP3 capability). The one before that (a 7939) was stolen so I HAD to replace it. But, IMHO, Alpine has gone and SHOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT with all the current models. For some reason, Alpine has decided to do away with Bass Engine Plus and Bass Engine Pro on ALL their current HU's (even the high-end ones). The 9855 and 9853 (mine) are the LAST models to offer BassEngine Pro. Now they just offer "Bass Engine" which is nothing more than adjustable bass and treble frequencies. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Bass Engine Pro and Plus had time alignment features that I find INDISPENSABLE. Time alignment gives you the ability to subtly delay certain speakers (in milliseconds) so that all the sound hits your ears at the same time. I LOVE IT. With TA engaged, my center image is ROCK SOLID. My soundstage is perfectly etched in space before me, and ALL the sound seems to come from in front of me. With TA not engaged, my soundstage seems diffused, my center image is all over the place, and the low bass (from my subs) sound like they are OBVIOUSLY coming from the rear of the car. Needless to say, I find TA a feature I cannot live without. Bass Engine Plus/Pro also have incredibly flexible crossover features AND a 5 band parametric EQ (on Bass Engine Pro, which is what I have) with is a TRUE parametric EQ with 1/3 octave frequency selection and "Q" function. Plain old "Bass Engine" has none of this. Why did Alpine do away with these WONDERFUL features? Beats me. My guess is that consumer feedback told them it was too confusing to use. True, it did take extensive reading of the manual to master all the functions, but to me, it is SO WORTH IT!!! And, like all things, once you become accustomed to it, it's easy. For the last 10 years when anyone would ask me "What's the best head unit?", I would ALWAYS put Alpine at the top of the list. Not anymore. If you are like me, and like lots of sound shaping features, the new Alpines ARE NOT FOR YOU. But if you like your head units simple, then I'm sure you will be pleased with the new Alpines. I'm sure the quality that Alpine is famous for is still there. But the reason I tell you all this is because if I were in the market RIGHT NOW, Alpine would be off my list. MOSFET "ScottReeve" wrote in message ups.com... I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970 HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
BBE has got nothing to do with compensating for MP3 inadequacies. That is
not why it was developed in the first place or incorporated into some HU's. My guess is that Alpine's dropping of those tweaking features dear to your heart is because there is no longer any money in it. These guys are in business to make money first and foremost. If it made them money or captured market share they would most certainly retain them. But that is not where the market is headed. In fact, the writing on the wall says that high end aftermarket systems will soon go the way of the dodo bird. People just aren't buying them. New cars have pretty decent systems these days. And more to the point, it is getting harder to install systems as the factory stuff is so integrated with other functions and aesthetics of the car. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message ... Also, you have to wonder if the INCREDIBLE popularity of the MP3 format has made sound quality no longer a major concern. I am not the only one who has made this observation. Someone did just recently here but I forgot who it was. The rational may be that if people are willing to accept second rate audio sources (MP3), why bother with high-end sound shaping features? That may also be part of Alpine's calculation. But if it is, I disagree as I think the MP3 format sounds GREAT (as long as the bit-rate is high enough). I guess Alpine's use of BBE again in some of their models is an attempt to try and compensate for what they perceive as inadequacies in the MP3 format. MOSFET "Eric Desrochers" wrote in message ... Hello. About the bass engine on Alpines... I own a 9815 from 2003 and you could pry it off my cold, hard, dead hands! Actually, my first unit was destroyed in a car fire and I repurchased another unit off eBay in 2005 for the new car! I like it exactly because of the bass engine. Most (all?) amps now have crossovers built-in but if your gonna use some or all of the HU amp channels, it won't do you any good. I have this question : you seem to no longer like the new Alpines HU, but which other brand/model have functions similar to Bass engine? In other word, is Alpine the bad guy or they only follow the trend? -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
My opinion on this differs somewhat. I have had Alpines with time alignment
and other HU's as well. My current HU's have EQ's with one being a parametric. My personal experience is this: 1/ Time alignment is not for everyone. I never used this feature as in my experience it actually degraded the sound (in my particular experience). Alpine's return to including BBE far outweighs the exclusion of time alignment. In fact, time alignment would be at odds with the operation of BBE. Time alignment does nothing for inherent phase delays between highs and lows whereas BBE does. The current BBE feature is much better than time alignment IMO. 2/ Parametric EQ's, and multi band EQ's are far over rated IMO. They are overused and in most cases set improperly. And with BBE the need for any EQ is drastically reduced. My current parametric is only used to bump the base levels at 80hz by a couple of db and to reduce it by 1db at 4000hz. In other words, if it were not there I would really be no worse off. If the speakers are properly selected, matched and installed correctly there really should be little need for a parametric or multi band EQ. Alpine's current EQ setup should do just fine to tweak the common problem areas. 3/ As far as crossovers go, most amps have more than adequate xovers built in. They are really redundant on an HU. If one wants to biamp a set of components then it is a simple matter to use an external crossover (which are more flexible and probably better anyway). In short, Alpine's new offerings offer very high sound quality without burdening the units with features that are largely unnecessary and redundant in nature. Unless one just has to have a wide assortment of gizmos and tweaks to play with you are probably no worse off without them. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message m... Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. I'm so glad Howdy is part of RAC! His posts are always so bright and cheerful. He just makes the world a better place! MOSFET |
#19
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
In article , "RG" wrote:
My opinion on this differs somewhat. I have had Alpines with time alignment and other HU's as well. My current HU's have EQ's with one being a parametric. My personal experience is this: 1/ Time alignment is not for everyone. I never used this feature as in my experience it actually degraded the sound (in my particular experience). Alpine's return to including BBE far outweighs the exclusion of time alignment. In fact, time alignment would be at odds with the operation of BBE. Time alignment does nothing for inherent phase delays between highs and lows whereas BBE does. The current BBE feature is much better than time alignment IMO. BBE is not what its cracked up to be. That demo on their website is a real winner. SO lame. What BBE does, is boost the highs dynamically. It has some benefit, but mostly, you can do that with a treble control. The time alignment crap was orginally for some arbitrary pa sound system , at some typical selcted crossover frequency, typically around 1 kHz. This does nothing for the typical home or car sound system. Most professionals don't like it. It can help playing bad compact cassettes, but again, so can a treble control. greg |
#20
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message ... Alpine dropped that crap because it is not need. Hope this one does not get stolen or outdated or Mosfet is now going to have to learn how to tune a system the old school way. Good luck you're gonna need it. Hey man, just because it's beyond your level of comprehension does not mean you should diss it. I use DSP for a living (Live audio reinforcement) I love it in my car! But i know how to use it. Chad |
#21
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
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#22
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
I have a 7878 which does have the Bass engine and TA. with that system I
have I don't use either feature. But the system I have with my 9861 I do think I could use those features. The best thing about the Alpines is that have full Ipod support and the fastest MP3 proc. The average person is person is not going to use the TA. But for people that will they should have models that still support it. I do agree that its nice having the built in crossover for basic systems also. "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I'm sure the 9857 would be a great HU and it WILL accommodate both iPod and sat radio. But here goes my standard rant about all the new Alpine units (the regulars have heard all this before)... I have owned three Alpines over the last 12 years and think Alpine is GREAT. My current Alpine is the 9853 and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! It is everything I could ever want in a HU. I have NEVER had a problem with any of the three Alpines I have owned (in fact, the only reason I replaced my last one, the 7863, was so that I had MP3 capability). The one before that (a 7939) was stolen so I HAD to replace it. But, IMHO, Alpine has gone and SHOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT with all the current models. For some reason, Alpine has decided to do away with Bass Engine Plus and Bass Engine Pro on ALL their current HU's (even the high-end ones). The 9855 and 9853 (mine) are the LAST models to offer BassEngine Pro. Now they just offer "Bass Engine" which is nothing more than adjustable bass and treble frequencies. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Bass Engine Pro and Plus had time alignment features that I find INDISPENSABLE. Time alignment gives you the ability to subtly delay certain speakers (in milliseconds) so that all the sound hits your ears at the same time. I LOVE IT. With TA engaged, my center image is ROCK SOLID. My soundstage is perfectly etched in space before me, and ALL the sound seems to come from in front of me. With TA not engaged, my soundstage seems diffused, my center image is all over the place, and the low bass (from my subs) sound like they are OBVIOUSLY coming from the rear of the car. Needless to say, I find TA a feature I cannot live without. Bass Engine Plus/Pro also have incredibly flexible crossover features AND a 5 band parametric EQ (on Bass Engine Pro, which is what I have) with is a TRUE parametric EQ with 1/3 octave frequency selection and "Q" function. Plain old "Bass Engine" has none of this. Why did Alpine do away with these WONDERFUL features? Beats me. My guess is that consumer feedback told them it was too confusing to use. True, it did take extensive reading of the manual to master all the functions, but to me, it is SO WORTH IT!!! And, like all things, once you become accustomed to it, it's easy. For the last 10 years when anyone would ask me "What's the best head unit?", I would ALWAYS put Alpine at the top of the list. Not anymore. If you are like me, and like lots of sound shaping features, the new Alpines ARE NOT FOR YOU. But if you like your head units simple, then I'm sure you will be pleased with the new Alpines. I'm sure the quality that Alpine is famous for is still there. But the reason I tell you all this is because if I were in the market RIGHT NOW, Alpine would be off my list. MOSFET "ScottReeve" wrote in message ups.com... I've got a 2002 Pathfinder, and when I got it, I had my Denon DCT-970 HU installed. The DCT-970 had two shortcomings from the start: 1) alternator whine (noticable at speeds 20MPH or less, faster than that the engine sound drowned it out) 2) No MP3 support. Now the main display light no longer works, so I can't see the station/track etc very easily. Looks like it's time for a new HU. I've had Alpine before (7817) but it's hard for me to compare the sound with the Denon because with the 7817, I had it going into an Alpine amp. It would be nice if the HU had auxiliary inputs, but from the specs this doesn't seem to have one. I think I read somewhere that the CD changer connector can be converted to an auxiliary input. The device that I want to connect is the XM radio. (I plan on connecting an IPOD also). The reviews seem very positive, so I'm willing to have the XM go into an FM freq. if all else is good. FWIW, I tried a Pioneer MP4800, (bought it at Circuit City) and like the Denon better. The Alpine was more analytical, but the Denon much more musical. Took the Pioneer back. Any opinions would be welcome. |
#23
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
BBE has got nothing to do with compensating for MP3 inadequacies. That is
not why it was developed in the first place or incorporated into some HU's. You're right. I don't know why I siad that (I was tired). BBE has been around MUCH longer than MP3. Also, BTW, I had BBE in my previous Alpine deck, the 7863 and I liked it. I used it all the time (unlike the "Media Expander" feature on my 9853 which I ALWAYS leave off). Although it's true that BBE boosts the treble and bass, it also seemed to widen my soundstage. My guess is that Alpine's dropping of those tweaking features dear to your heart is because there is no longer any money in it. Did you read my posts? That is EXACTLY what I said. Consumer feedback told them consumers did not like it and that they are getting rid of it for marketing reasons. MOSFET |
#24
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Because more then half of the time you don't know what you're talking about,
maybe? You're right. I don't know why I siad that (I was tired). BBE has been around MUCH longer than MP3. Also, BTW, I had BBE in my previous Alpine deck, the 7863 and I liked it. I used it all the time (unlike the "Media Expander" feature on my 9853 which I ALWAYS leave off). Although it's true that BBE boosts the treble and bass, it also seemed to widen my soundstage. MOSFET |
#25
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Because more then half of the time you don't know what you're talking
about, maybe? You're right. But I'll take being right half the time over being right none of the time, like you. MOSFET |
#26
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Because more then half of the time you don't know what you're talking
about, maybe? And one more thing. You're mother wears combat boots! So there! Nyah! MOSFET |
#27
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
The time alignment crap
was orginally for some arbitrary pa sound system , at some typical selcted crossover frequency, typically around 1 kHz. This does nothing for the typical home or car sound system. Most professionals don't like it. How would you know... TA is indeed used for live sound on about ALL high end pro sound systems. TA has nothing to do with the quantity of high frequency in the system, so you obviously are confusing TA with some other gimmick... -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#28
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Another conspiration theory. Maybe the sound shaping functions in their
HU were canibalizing the sale of their high end outboard processors? -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#29
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
MOSFET wrote:
Also, you have to wonder if the INCREDIBLE popularity of the MP3 format has made sound quality no longer a major concern. That may be their reasoning but I disagree. Even if you were playing 8 tracks, you would still benefit from the P-EQ, TA and x-overs. MP3 well reproduced will always beat MP3 (or even CD) badly reproduced... And they are not so bad to begin with. I like MP3 in the car to no end. I would never go back to tapes! -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#30
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Oh and one more thing on top of that, your wife blows tweeters
So there! Nyah! In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Because more then half of the time you don't know what you're talking about, maybe? And one more thing. You're mother wears combat boots! So there! Nyah! MOSFET |
#31
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Oh and one more thing on top of that, your wife blows tweeters
So there! Nyah! LOL I like that one, Howdy. Regarding your other rant, let me put it this way, you and Matt are two COMPELTELY different people. I understand you. You make me laugh. Except for the fact that you can sometimes scare noobs (and I really don't think that's a big issue), I think you make this place fun and I get a kick out of bull ****ting with you. But you will notice that I will NEVER engage in any serious debate with you. Take a look at ALL our past posts. I NEVER respond to anything you say seriously. I made that mistake ONCE, and it made me VERY mad (our first fight) because I THOUGHT you were normal and I could use logic and reasoning with you. But now I know better. I don't take ANYTHING you say seriously, and therefore you never annoy me, honestly (or I would have blocked you, like I did Matt). I enjoy our banterings, but I WILL NOT engage in ANY sort of serious debate with you. EVER. Matt is a different story which you can't even BEGIN to understand. I just don't like Matt. OK? Is that simple enough for you, Howdy. But believe it or not, I DO like you. You have moxy. You have balls. I like that. MOSFET |
#32
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Another conspiration theory. Maybe the sound shaping functions in their
HU were canibalizing the sale of their high end outboard processors? Yes, but how many outboard processors do they sell anymore? My guess is not that many. That's my point. Nobody seems to care anymore about complex sound-shaping in the automotive environment. We have already discussed the many reasons why this is so. For instance, I know for years the competitive arena drove many high-end manufacturers. IASCA rules created a demand for extensive EQ's and time alignment features as well as other complex sound shaping tools. But IASCA (along with all the other SQ focused organizations) is dead. The ONLY competitive car audio arena left is the SPL world where SQ means NOTHING. But that's just one of MANY reasons why the emphasis on SQ has lessoned in the last few years. MOSFET |
#33
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Yes, but how many outboard processors do they sell anymore? My guess is not
that many. That's my point. Nobody seems to care anymore about complex sound-shaping in the automotive environment. We have already discussed the many reasons why this is so. For instance, I know for years the competitive arena drove many high-end manufacturers. IASCA rules created a demand for extensive EQ's and time alignment features as well as other complex sound shaping tools. But IASCA (along with all the other SQ focused organizations) is dead. The ONLY competitive car audio arena left is the SPL world where SQ means NOTHING. But that's just one of MANY reasons why the emphasis on SQ has lessoned in the last few years. MOSFET Isn't it depressing? Just when great and affordable DSP become available, they are no longer sought after by the customers... I never entered a SQ competition, not even attended one, but I understand their importance for pushing the enveloppe as to what is wanted from the manufacturer. Maybe one day SPL will go out of fad (or will be rendered illegal, who knows!) and SQ will take back its place... -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#34
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Most professionals do like it, and it is not just a "dynamic" boost of the
highs, nor is it a treble control. I would never buy another HU without it. But to each their own I guess ... - RG "GregS" wrote in message ... In article , "RG" wrote: My opinion on this differs somewhat. I have had Alpines with time alignment and other HU's as well. My current HU's have EQ's with one being a parametric. My personal experience is this: 1/ Time alignment is not for everyone. I never used this feature as in my experience it actually degraded the sound (in my particular experience). Alpine's return to including BBE far outweighs the exclusion of time alignment. In fact, time alignment would be at odds with the operation of BBE. Time alignment does nothing for inherent phase delays between highs and lows whereas BBE does. The current BBE feature is much better than time alignment IMO. BBE is not what its cracked up to be. That demo on their website is a real winner. SO lame. What BBE does, is boost the highs dynamically. It has some benefit, but mostly, you can do that with a treble control. The time alignment crap was orginally for some arbitrary pa sound system , at some typical selcted crossover frequency, typically around 1 kHz. This does nothing for the typical home or car sound system. Most professionals don't like it. It can help playing bad compact cassettes, but again, so can a treble control. greg |
#35
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
ROTFLMAO !!
You're right. But I'll take being right half the time over being right none of the time, like you. MOSFET |
#36
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Maybe one day SPL will go out of fad (or
will be rendered illegal, who knows!) and SQ will take back its place... It would be a nice dream. But it will never happen. As was already mentioned, the biggest killer to our "way of life" (so to speak) is the fact that modern cars have extremely integrated audio systems already built in. By integrated, I don't just mean from an electronic perspective (although that is certainly more and more the case). But from an aesthetic perspective as well. More and more, the modern dash-board has become a seamless melding of form and function. Or, in more simple terms, the guy with the brand new Lexus does NOT want his dash ****ed with (no matter how fancy the latest Alpine looks). The days of simple DIN to DIN HU swaps are OVER! I believe this, more than any other factor, will be the death knell for aftermarket HU manufacturers. What WILL keep this industry around for decades I expect is the love many people have for bass. No matter how good the latest "premium" factory sound system gets, there will ALWAYS be those who demand MORE BASS. Amps and subs that can integrate with factory systems will likely be the biggest sellers 20 years from now (keep in mind, this is just one guy's prediction). So yes, it's too bad. It would have been nice if car audio could have gone the way of home audio. But there are forces working against us that will eventually prevail, I'm afraid to say. The best analogy to this whole thing is the progression of the automobile engine. At first, anyone with a set of tools and a little know-how could work on their own car. They could perform modifications and fix most problems. Then cars went and became computerized. All of a sudden, you needed a WHOLE LOT of know-how to work on a car. This is what I see happening to car audio. As factory HU's become more and more integrated into other car functions, it will become increasingly difficult for the DIYer to change or modify anything. And again, I'm not JUST talking about the electronic end of this, but styling considerations will become more and more important. Again, people are going to be nervous messing with the dashes of their new Infinities. This wasn't the case 20 years ago when even high-end cars (Mercedes for instance) used the standard DIN sized HU. MOSFET |
#37
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
ROTFLMAO !!
It was SUPPOSED to be a childish retort (like his). |
#38
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
I like that one, Howdy. Regarding your other rant, let me put it this way, you and Matt are two COMPELTELY different people. That's not what you just said in your other post, did you change your mind or just trying a different angle? Two peas in a pot ring any bells? I understand you. You make me laugh. Except for the fact that you can sometimes scare noobs (and I really don't think that's a big issue), I think you make this place fun and I get a kick out of bull ****ting with you. You thought that it was a big issue just the other day and I sure did not sense and hahaha there. But you will notice that I will NEVER engage in any serious debate with you. Take a look at ALL our past posts. I NEVER respond to anything you say seriously. I made that mistake ONCE, and it made me VERY mad (our first fight) because I THOUGHT you were normal and I could use logic and reasoning with you. But now I know better. I sure as hell hope not, serious debate is not your strong point. As seen in your posts with Matt. I don't take ANYTHING you say seriously, and therefore you never annoy me, honestly (or I would have blocked you, like I did Matt). I enjoy our banterings, but I WILL NOT engage in ANY sort of serious debate with you. EVER. What was that term that you have used the other day, "you make me sick" Yet I never never annoy you. Matt is a different story which you can't even BEGIN to understand. I just don't like Matt. OK? Is that simple enough for you, Howdy. It's never that simple, but I totally understand as does Matt from what I have read in here. But believe it or not, I DO like you. You have moxy. You have balls. I like that. Is that just today, or just on your off days? Maxie and having balls is in a sense the same. Anyway, whatever works for you. Maxie today, bully tomorrow. Keep me posted. MOSFET |
#39
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
Is that just today, or just on your off days? Maxie and having balls is in
a It's moxy you bonehead. It's like trying to explain something to a 9 year old. Why did I bother? I'm sure nothing I said registered if you don't even understand the words I use. Oh well, we'll just go back to flipping each other **** (and YES, I do enjoy it). Furthermore, has it ever occured to your little pea brain I may not mean everything I say to you. Sometimes I just push your buttons for kicks (because I ALWAYS get a response). So YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Stay tuned. I may say something completely different tomorrow, like, Howdy, I love you. MOSFET |
#40
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Opinion on Alpine CDA-9857
You should attended a SQ competition, just to get an idea of what you are
talking about. Then enter a SQ competition and make good friends with a judge and get him to spend a month in your car setting up your system just right. Then enter another SQ competition so that the next judge can tell you that your system does not sound right. Feel free to pull your dick like that untill your nuts turn blue. Then let me know what you think. Isn't it depressing? Just when great and affordable DSP become available, they are no longer sought after by the customers... I never entered a SQ competition, not even attended one, but I understand their importance for pushing the enveloppe as to what is wanted from the manufacturer. Maybe one day SPL will go out of fad (or will be rendered illegal, who knows!) and SQ will take back its place... |
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