I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications
(see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am
adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the
draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers
slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black
on Coast Rte 1.....

Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo
equipment
1) radio 140 watts (4x35);
2) CD change;
3) power ant;
4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt),
5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200
watt power handling
6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr,
7) graphic equalizer,
8) DVD player (12 w power consumption)
9) Halogen lighting (100/90w),
10) a/c to come later,
11) electronic ignition system,
12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster,
13) power seats,
14) cruise control,
15) AODE transmission,
16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later
on.
17) Underdrive pulleys added as well.

I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100,
130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard
wiring for old Fords).

I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a
street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another
poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in
this subject.

I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way.


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:49:34 -0800, Spike wrote:

I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications
(see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am
adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the
draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers
slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black
on Coast Rte 1.....

Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo
equipment
1) radio 140 watts (4x35);
2) CD change;
3) power ant;
4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt),
5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200
watt power handling
6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr,
7) graphic equalizer,
8) DVD player (12 w power consumption)
9) Halogen lighting (100/90w),
10) a/c to come later,
11) electronic ignition system,
12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster,
13) power seats,
14) cruise control,
15) AODE transmission,
16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later
on.
17) Underdrive pulleys added as well.

I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100,
130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard
wiring for old Fords).

I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a
street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another
poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in
this subject.

I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way.


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Based on the equipment you listed, any of those capacities (100 ,130,
or 140 ampere) would work fine. Look at the prices and decide what
the "Sweet Spot" is. For instance, If the 130-amp is only $50 more
than the 100-amp, I'd go with the larger one, but if the 140-amp is
$50 more than the 130-amp, that's probably not a very good return for
the extra money.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a one-wire alternator for the
street. Since they only have one wire (from the alternator to the
battery), they're usually not compatible with your stock dash
alternator warning light, but since you're adding a gauge package,
that's not a big deal.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the one-wire alternators don't
"turn on" until they reach a certain speed. Once they "turn on", they
stay on until you shut the car off. This just means that once you
start the car, you may need to "blip" the throttle to get the
alternator started working.

The "turn-on" speed of the alternator is usually when the engine's
turning around 1200 RPM, but since you're installing underdrive
pulleys, that speed's going to be increased a little. You may have to
"blip" the throttle up to 1500 RPM or so to get the alternator going.
Again, once the alternator is "turned on", it will continue to charge
until the engine comes to a complete stop.

Nice to hear about your "resto-mod" project. I have a 1972 Dodge
Charger with a 440 big-block that's getting a full suite of Autometer
Pro-Comp Ultra-Lite gauges, and I have a new Tremec TKO II five-speed
transmission and Be-Cool aluminum radiator that are going into it as
soon as I get a few warm days in a row. I also have a full air
conditioning setup for it fro Classic Auto Air, including a new Sanden
compressor, but it's probably going to be winter again before I get it
put in.


--
Scott Gardner

"It's always nighttime in the back of a Hawkeye." (LTJG Molly Ketchell)

Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?

So far it's been over a year. Paint is supposed to go on this
Saturday. Then the interior has to go back in. 289 4v back under the
hood. I added 3 point belts, and will be changing out the seats when
the car is returned to me. Also going from the C4 to AOD. Middle of
April is going to be a rush. I have to be in Ohio (from CA) on the
30th of April for my daughter's wedding. When asked what she wanted
for a wedding gift her reply was to drive my fastback. She and her
fiance are building a K.I.T.T. clone (TV show Knightrider). Oh, well.

Again, my many thanks.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:06:53 -0500, Scott Gardner
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:49:34 -0800, Spike wrote:

I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications
(see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am
adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the
draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers
slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black
on Coast Rte 1.....

Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo
equipment
1) radio 140 watts (4x35);
2) CD change;
3) power ant;
4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt),
5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200
watt power handling
6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr,
7) graphic equalizer,
8) DVD player (12 w power consumption)
9) Halogen lighting (100/90w),
10) a/c to come later,
11) electronic ignition system,
12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster,
13) power seats,
14) cruise control,
15) AODE transmission,
16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later
on.
17) Underdrive pulleys added as well.

I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100,
130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard
wiring for old Fords).

I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a
street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another
poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in
this subject.

I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way.


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Based on the equipment you listed, any of those capacities (100 ,130,
or 140 ampere) would work fine. Look at the prices and decide what
the "Sweet Spot" is. For instance, If the 130-amp is only $50 more
than the 100-amp, I'd go with the larger one, but if the 140-amp is
$50 more than the 130-amp, that's probably not a very good return for
the extra money.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a one-wire alternator for the
street. Since they only have one wire (from the alternator to the
battery), they're usually not compatible with your stock dash
alternator warning light, but since you're adding a gauge package,
that's not a big deal.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the one-wire alternators don't
"turn on" until they reach a certain speed. Once they "turn on", they
stay on until you shut the car off. This just means that once you
start the car, you may need to "blip" the throttle to get the
alternator started working.

The "turn-on" speed of the alternator is usually when the engine's
turning around 1200 RPM, but since you're installing underdrive
pulleys, that speed's going to be increased a little. You may have to
"blip" the throttle up to 1500 RPM or so to get the alternator going.
Again, once the alternator is "turned on", it will continue to charge
until the engine comes to a complete stop.

Nice to hear about your "resto-mod" project. I have a 1972 Dodge
Charger with a 440 big-block that's getting a full suite of Autometer
Pro-Comp Ultra-Lite gauges, and I have a new Tremec TKO II five-speed
transmission and Be-Cool aluminum radiator that are going into it as
soon as I get a few warm days in a row. I also have a full air
conditioning setup for it fro Classic Auto Air, including a new Sanden
compressor, but it's probably going to be winter again before I get it
put in.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

"Spike" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?



Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12.
You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your time
and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!!

Chad

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"Spike" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?



Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12.
You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your time
and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!!

Chad


If everything remained the same, R12 should cool better than R134a.

-Bruce

"Bruce Chang" wrote in message
...

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"Spike" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?



Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12.
You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your
time and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!!

Chad


If everything remained the same, R12 should cool better than R134a.

-Bruce

That is correct but a R12 system converted to a 134A system will not get as
cold as a 134A system.

Chad

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:02:38 -0800, Spike wrote:

Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?


I went with the Classic Auto Air mainly for reliability reasons. The
Vintage Air units have physically smaller evaporators to begin with,
and then they rob a few coils from the evaporator to serve as the
heater coil. In addition to making them less efficient, you run the
risk of the heater coils freezing and cracking if the evaporator coils
right next to them ever ice up. Pretty much every auto A/C person I
talked to said that the Vintage Air units were fine for smaller cars
and relatively mild weather, but for larger cars and seriously hot or
cold weather, they're a little underpowered.

Also, the Vintage Air evaporators are glued together at the factory
and aren't designed to be taken apart, maintained, or repaired. If
anything goes wrong, total evaporator replacement is pretty much your
only option.

Since I'm installing a complete A/C system from the ground up and not
re-using any of the factory components, I'm going with R-134 as the
refrigerant. The condenser I'm using is HUGE compared to the factory
R-12 condenser, so the overall cooling capacity should be much better
than the factory R-12 system. The compressor I'm using is the Sanden
508 (actually, the R-134 version has a different model number, but
it's the same unit as the 508, with slightly different internals).
--
Scott Gardner

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." (Voltaire)

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:43:37 -0600, "Chad Wahls"
wrote:


That is correct but a R12 system converted to a 134A system will not get as
cold as a 134A system.

Chad




True - the general rule of thumb is that the condenser needs to be
about 20% larger to compensate for the reduced efficiency of R-134
compared to R-12. That's why if you convert a system over to R-134
without changing the condenser, it will never get as cold as it did
when you were running R-12.


--
Scott Gardner

"Oh look, things are going from bad to worse!"

Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want
to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000,
and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going
to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to
Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air
conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself.

So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it
all fits under the dash in place of what is there.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:44:20 -0500, Scott Gardner
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:02:38 -0800, Spike wrote:

Thanks for the input.

Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire?


I went with the Classic Auto Air mainly for reliability reasons. The
Vintage Air units have physically smaller evaporators to begin with,
and then they rob a few coils from the evaporator to serve as the
heater coil. In addition to making them less efficient, you run the
risk of the heater coils freezing and cracking if the evaporator coils
right next to them ever ice up. Pretty much every auto A/C person I
talked to said that the Vintage Air units were fine for smaller cars
and relatively mild weather, but for larger cars and seriously hot or
cold weather, they're a little underpowered.

Also, the Vintage Air evaporators are glued together at the factory
and aren't designed to be taken apart, maintained, or repaired. If
anything goes wrong, total evaporator replacement is pretty much your
only option.

Since I'm installing a complete A/C system from the ground up and not
re-using any of the factory components, I'm going with R-134 as the
refrigerant. The condenser I'm using is HUGE compared to the factory
R-12 condenser, so the overall cooling capacity should be much better
than the factory R-12 system. The compressor I'm using is the Sanden
508 (actually, the R-134 version has a different model number, but
it's the same unit as the 508, with slightly different internals).

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:31:20 -0800, Spike wrote:

Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want
to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000,
and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going
to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to
Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air
conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself.

So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it
all fits under the dash in place of what is there.


Spike,
Classic Auto Air has one of their "Perfect Fit" models that's
designed for a 1965 Mustang. The total system price is just under
$1100. Here's a link that describes what's in the "Perfect Fit"
series, as well as some general advantages of the Classic Auto Air
products:

http://www.classicautoair.com/perfectfit.htm


--
Scott Gardner

"Landing on the ship during the daytime is like sex, it's either good or it's great. Landing on the ship at night is like a trip to the dentist, you may get away with no pain, but you just don't feel comfortable." (LCDR Thomas Quinn, USN)

As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the
switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until
May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a
clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden.

Close enough.

Thanks a bunch... : )

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:08:31 -0500, Scott Gardner
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:31:20 -0800, Spike wrote:

Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want
to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000,
and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going
to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to
Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air
conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself.

So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it
all fits under the dash in place of what is there.


Spike,
Classic Auto Air has one of their "Perfect Fit" models that's
designed for a 1965 Mustang. The total system price is just under
$1100. Here's a link that describes what's in the "Perfect Fit"
series, as well as some general advantages of the Classic Auto Air
products:

http://www.classicautoair.com/perfectfit.htm

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:21:52 -0800, Spike wrote:

As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the
switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until
May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a
clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden.

Close enough.

Thanks a bunch... : )


Glad you found it useful. I talked to the people at Classic Auto Air
before I bought my system, and found them to be very helpful. It's
been about 18 months since I received the system and I still haven't
installed it yet (recovering from a motorcycle accident), that I've
forgotten all of the little parts I got. I know I got the polished
Sanden compressor, though. They did a nice job of polishing it,
except they didn't clean all of the polishing paste out of the nooks
and crannies, so there's some grey residue in the crevices. I'm not
sure how long the polished finish will hold up under the hood of a car
before it'll require re-polishing, though. I don't know if Classic
Auto Air carries the chromed version of the Sanden 508, or how much
more it would cost, but that would probably be lower-maintenance than
the polished finish.

I think I got the clutch hub cover as well, just for looks.

One thing I forgot to mention, though. Since the "Perfect Fit" series
is meant for a factory-appearing installation in cars that originally
didn't have A/C, it's designed so that you can control the new heater
and A/C using the car's original heater and vent controls. Everything
works, but it can be a little confusing since the switch labels won't
be right. Makes sense, because you're controlling the new heater,
defroster, and air conditioner using a control panel that originally
controlled only a heater and defroster.

If a completely-stock appearance isn't critical, you can order a new
control panel that will have all of the levers and knobs required to
control everything, with all of the controls correctly labeled. I got
the billet aluminum one. Since I'm having a custom dash built for the
car, I'm not too concerned with originality.

I only hope I can get it all installed before the summer's over. I
have a garage full of parts that need to find their way into the car
sometime this summer, and I'm not sure when I'm going to do it. I
guess that's the way it always is with project cars, though.





--
Scott Gardner

"One tentacle, one vote."

I have not ordered yet, but I did check it out, and I requested their
catalog.

Chrome is a bit on the expensive side probably for my budget, so I may
just go with the polished. I need the exercise anyway : ) Depends on
the price difference. As for the clutch cap, in order to pinch a few
pennies for the time being, I will probably put that off for now. Same
with the dash control panel. Either I will adjust to it, or I will get
a correct one later on.

I'm not totally against change, but I am trying to keep it close to
original. I have an intermittent wiper system out of a Ford F-150 pu
that's the same knob and such as the Mustang except it used a longer
switch shaft. Just have to cut it a bit and flatten a spot for the set
screw. Then I have modern convenience that looks like nothing has been
changed. Nothing wrong with some added comforts like the sound system,
decent seats, 3 point seatbelts, etc.

Right now, I just want to get the main things out of the way so I can
start using it. It's been with the restoration company for over a year
and I'm not getting any younger waiting. Once it's up and running, I
can add things over time. Right now, I have at least 4 trips to make
from Calif to Ohio (2), Tennessee, and Florida, between now and June
of 06. I want to enjoy those miles.

I should be back from the first trip before summer really hits around
here which gives me time to install the a/c.

Again thanks for the input.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:47:17 -0500, Scott Gardner
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:21:52 -0800, Spike wrote:

As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the
switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until
May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a
clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden.

Close enough.

Thanks a bunch... : )


Glad you found it useful. I talked to the people at Classic Auto Air
before I bought my system, and found them to be very helpful. It's
been about 18 months since I received the system and I still haven't
installed it yet (recovering from a motorcycle accident), that I've
forgotten all of the little parts I got. I know I got the polished
Sanden compressor, though. They did a nice job of polishing it,
except they didn't clean all of the polishing paste out of the nooks
and crannies, so there's some grey residue in the crevices. I'm not
sure how long the polished finish will hold up under the hood of a car
before it'll require re-polishing, though. I don't know if Classic
Auto Air carries the chromed version of the Sanden 508, or how much
more it would cost, but that would probably be lower-maintenance than
the polished finish.

I think I got the clutch hub cover as well, just for looks.

One thing I forgot to mention, though. Since the "Perfect Fit" series
is meant for a factory-appearing installation in cars that originally
didn't have A/C, it's designed so that you can control the new heater
and A/C using the car's original heater and vent controls. Everything
works, but it can be a little confusing since the switch labels won't
be right. Makes sense, because you're controlling the new heater,
defroster, and air conditioner using a control panel that originally
controlled only a heater and defroster.

If a completely-stock appearance isn't critical, you can order a new
control panel that will have all of the levers and knobs required to
control everything, with all of the controls correctly labeled. I got
the billet aluminum one. Since I'm having a custom dash built for the
car, I'm not too concerned with originality.

I only hope I can get it all installed before the summer's over. I
have a garage full of parts that need to find their way into the car
sometime this summer, and I'm not sure when I'm going to do it. I
guess that's the way it always is with project cars, though.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16