I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

What the hell would we want to do that for? Product cloning is for
pussies, and we were shipping the Directed amps before we even bought
ADST. At least, the PCB designs - the mechanical design changed in 2002
at CES which was a month and half after the acquisition. But I'm not
offended, it's a very common misconception. I am however thinking you
haven't ever looked very close at any PCB's for the three brands in
question.

Actually, if you want to know the real story, we paid a top industrial
designer for both the Directed and the Viper amps mechanicals that
year... but Viper was having its big launch so we intentionally dialed
back the Directed to a more conservative look so Viper would be the
attention-getter.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

John, I know their not a clone, I just wanted to hear your 2 cents. But they
do look like the older Apline V12's.


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
What the hell would we want to do that for? Product cloning is for
pussies, and we were shipping the Directed amps before we even bought
ADST. At least, the PCB designs - the mechanical design changed in 2002
at CES which was a month and half after the acquisition. But I'm not
offended, it's a very common misconception. I am however thinking you
haven't ever looked very close at any PCB's for the three brands in
question.

Actually, if you want to know the real story, we paid a top industrial
designer for both the Directed and the Viper amps mechanicals that
year... but Viper was having its big launch so we intentionally dialed
back the Directed to a more conservative look so Viper would be the
attention-getter.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro
look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such
as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to
say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the one
on the Orion Gx line?



Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro
look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such
as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to
say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

SO? Lots of companies get parts from the same vendors. And how do you know
it was PPI that stole anyone's design (assuming there was any copying in the
first place)?



Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a
good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws
are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a
DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the
one
on the Orion Gx line?



Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro
look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies,
such
as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines.
Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just
like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to
say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message

I'm I on crack?, no.

HA... fuggin classic...

The GX heat sink was not the same as the PPI model you're talking about.
It was wider, and flatter. They did at some point make Orion amps that
were taller, not as wide, and longer - The Beast for example - but still
not the same metal. Again, at the time you're talking, these were two
separate companies. PPI did do some contract manufacturing for a couple
of companies - Crutchfield and Phillips USA as I recall - but they never
built for Orion. In fact, if you know any of the people from either
organization, I think they'd have died before they shared any designs or
parts.

As to the RCA's and the socket-head Allen bolts, give me a break
already... if the most you can say to prove your point is that they
bought from the same parts supplier. or picked the same connector out of
a catalog, you're grasping at straws. I can buy the same bolts today -
in fact, I have a few boxes sitting in my garage - from local bolt
suppliers like Ababa. They were used by virtually everybody that was
bolting products like this together in the US back then. My old Zapco's
use them and so did Audiomobile.

As to the DIN plug, the commonality is that both companies have a common
ancestry dating back to Jim Fosgate, and some people that learned a lot
about amps from him in the early days of the Phoenix car audio
explosion. He had phantom power DIN cable designs to drive outboard
processors as early as 1977 - I had two of them in my VW Rabbit at the
time. So yes, both companies used phantom power for their processors for
several years. Big whoop...

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the one
on the Orion Gx line?





Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro


look.You


thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such


as


the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to


say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

When we came along, there were essentially three companies living
together under one roof. They did share a few things here and there,
like Orion speaker systems that used a/d/s/ driver parts, and once upon
a time an a/d/s/ powered sub that used an Orion woofer, but for the most
part the brands did not mix at all. Not a bad thing in many ways, but
far from efficient.

JD

Paul Vina wrote:

Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...


You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro


look.You


thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such


as


the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
. ..


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to


say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

Captain Howdy wrote:

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

John here's a pic of the 2150M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796





In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

They're similar, but not the same. The fins on the Orion are laid down more
where the PPIs are more vertical. Profile used to have amos that looked
like these too. Maybe PI and Orion stole the designs from them! Ass.




Paul Vina



"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
John here's a pic of the 2150M

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796





In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
John here's a pic of the 2150M
snip
Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796



about a bazillion other amps. Seriously. It's got fins, and the middle is
flat.. NEVER seen an amp that looked anything remotely like that, EVER

narcolept
-----
/sarcasm off




In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 14:06:14 GMT, (Captain Howdy) wrote:

John here's a pic of the 2150M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Well, it has the same type of graphics as the later "Art" series. I
had a PPI 4100AM that looked just like it. It's just a semantic issue
- I don't think they weren't officially called the "Art Series" by PPI
until the A100, A200 etcetera came out, but I remember calling my
4100AM an "Art Series" at the time, so I think the name was around
informally before PPI actually began to use it as a series name.
In the PPI lineage, the "M" series begat the "AM" series,
begat the "Art" series, begat the "PC" begat the "PCX". So, while you
could buy a 4100AM with the white paint and multi-colour silkscreened
graphics in 1991 (like I did), you couldn't buy an official "Art
Series" PPI amp until 1993, when the equivalent to the 4100AM would
have been called the A204.


Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

It looks similar, but the heatsink fins are actually shaped
differently. All they have in common is the "fins on top, fins on
bottom, finless strip down the middle" design, and that was a fairly
common scheme at the time.

Here's an auction with a good end-view of a PPI 2075 (same chassis
style as the 2150M and 4100AM)

http://tinyurl.com/y0z6

Look at the seven fins above the "finless strip" and the seven
fins below. They're all the same height, and they're all parallel,
both lengthwise and widthwise. You could lay a straightedge across
the amp and it would touch all fourteen of those fins at the same
time.

This auction has a good end-view of an Orion GX:

http://tinyurl.com/y0yw

See how the fins aren't the same height? They're shorter next to the
"finless strip" and get taller as they proceed to the edge of the amp.

So yes, the older "M" and "AM" amps did look superficially similar to
the Orion GX and HCCA amps, but they weren't the same heatsinks.

Scot Gardner


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

Very sure, granted they share the white paint job and mural, but the
innards and the extrusion are not the same at all. At least not
identical at all - they probably share some design topology similarities
and parts selection - the PPI at least, The Orion is still going to be
more different yet. One thing I can tell you for sure, the GX used
complimentary bipolar transistors for the power supply (2N6488, 2N6490
pairs - something like that) where the 2150M used MOSFET's - hence the
"M" in the model number.

On the Orion, look specifically at the broad, fly-cut aluminum strips on
the heat sink. Now look at the 2150M - see how the fins end without that
wide section as they reach the center low area? Totally different
extrusions. Other than the (fairly common) placement and size of the
fins, and the center area that's left flat so you can put some markings
on the heat sink, these are not that similar.

I can see why you would think there's a connection - there is, but it's
not what you thought, it's the shared heritage and history of amplifier
design and manufacturing in the Valley of the Sun. A lot of stuff looked
more similar back then - nowadays it's a much more cutthroat market and
you can't get anyone excited with generic looking product.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

John here's a pic of the 2150M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796





In article , John Durbin
wrote:


dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003 models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina



"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003
models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near
2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.

What are you smoking? If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL Until the 2004 line is available to the
public, the 2003 line is still current, so what is your point?


In article c_nzb.411477$Fm2.417805@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina

ha ha ha
Like I have been telling you fools for years, they
are all made in the same garage in Tiawan!

ha ha ha

Captain Howdy wrote:

If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL

JD was saying that it took you almost a year to realize that they look like
an Alpine. He never debated them being current. Only that your powers of
observation ar a little.......lacking.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
What are you smoking? If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL Until the 2004 line is available to the
public, the 2003 line is still current, so what is your point?


In article c_nzb.411477$Fm2.417805@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch
about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina

I guess the point would be, thanks for stopping by finally, i.e. we put
that stuff up during CES in Jan 2003, and you just now got a look.

JD
making a mental note to shill more on RAC in the off-season

Captain Howdy wrote:

(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003 models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:


(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:



I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.