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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?

geoff wrote:
On 12/10/2017 2:50 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

ACID is not a DAW, it's a very specific tool for building music from loops.
It has absolutely nothing to do with a DAW and frequently is used to produce
files which are imported into a DAW.


Um Scott, hate to quibble especially in these circumstances, but what
DAW functions is ACID lacking ?


I'd say the thing wasn't that it was lacking audio editing functions
(although it kind of is because the UI for doing that seems clumsy to me)
more than that they are dwarfed by the other functions that are added.

You can use it as a DAW... but it's not software intended primarily for that.

And I wouldn't want to be comping orchestral takes with it.
--scott
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?

On 12/10/2017 2:04 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
geoff wrote:
On 12/10/2017 2:50 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

ACID is not a DAW, it's a very specific tool for building music from loops.
It has absolutely nothing to do with a DAW and frequently is used to produce
files which are imported into a DAW.


Um Scott, hate to quibble especially in these circumstances, but what
DAW functions is ACID lacking ?


I'd say the thing wasn't that it was lacking audio editing functions
(although it kind of is because the UI for doing that seems clumsy to me)
more than that they are dwarfed by the other functions that are added.


Al contraire. UI is (to me) straightforward and intuitive. And the UI is
completely and easily configurable with detachable and
repositionable/resizeable windows than you can position across multiple
monitors, or hide completely. Like any DAW it benefits from a large size
hi-res monitor (or two). Some other DAWs are only just catching up in
that area.

I found the operation also totally intuitive - if you can use a word
processor ...

But that's just me. And maybe a few others.


You can use it as a DAW... but it's not software intended primarily for that.
And I wouldn't want to be comping orchestral takes with it


Seems to work pretty well with the bundled GARRITAN orchestra ;-)

geoff
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?

On 11/10/2017 7:49 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 10/10/2017 1:00 AM, Trevor wrote: (in e-mail, but gave a bogus reply
address so I couldn't reply directly, but it pertains to this thread


Sorry, accidentally hit reply instead of followup. My bad.


You are on the wrong track here when talking about "multi-track
recording software.


I wasn't talking about multitrack software, I was talking about the
difference between "true" (who ever came up with that moniker?) and
"virtual" (pretty well established) recording.


Virtual multi-track is only something that came in with digital
recording. I know we both go back further than that, so I'd say the
"established" multi-track recording is not virtual.


True multi-track is where you can record more than 2 tracks at once.


The better name for that is two-channel or multi-channel recording. Even
2 channels is considered "multitrack."


Not since stereo became well established in the sixties, for most people
anyway. Nobody here ever uses the term "multi-track" for stereo since
that time, but yes it's more than 1 track.


Virtual multi-track is where you record 2 tracks at a time, but can
mix a larger number in the software. Most (not all) software these
days can do both given suitable hardware though.


That's nobody's definition but your own. That's just "not having as many
inputs as you want to record simultaneously."


Well established definition here. But as with everything else in life,
people often prefer their own definitions. Still you are the first I've
heard deny the existence of the "virtual multi-track" concept. The
"virtual" part is not a redundant concept for most of us *especially*
anyone who ever does live recording.

Trevor.


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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?

On 11/10/2017 8:15 AM, Tom Evans wrote:
On 2017-10-10 14:29:26 +0000, Scott Dorsey said:
Tom EvansÂ* wrote:
On 2017-09-05 13:52:27 +0000, Scott Dorsey said:

It doesn't sound like you want DAW software, but something more like
ACID.
is that true?

What's ACID?


I guess you'd call it a loop-based composition tool.Â* Check it out, it's
very popular.
--scott


I already have two loop-based composing tools:Â* Logic and Garageband.

So I don't see why you think I would need ACID, which I'd never even
heard of.

And Logic is a high-quality pro tool, so why would I need to spend time
and effort learning ACID, after I've already invested time and money on
Logic.


Jesus YOU claimed you were *considering* Logic, and people tried to
help. I'm sure they wish they hadn't bothered with that attitude.
If you are now happy, thank them and move on!

Trevor.




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Trevor Trevor is offline
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On 11/10/2017 1:39 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
On 2017-10-11 01:17:42 +0000, Geoff said:
On 11/10/2017 10:15 AM, Tom Evans wrote:
On 2017-10-10 14:29:26 +0000, Scott Dorsey said:
Tom EvansÂ* wrote:
On 2017-09-05 13:52:27 +0000, Scott Dorsey said:
It doesn't sound like you want DAW software, but something more
like ACID.
is that true?

What's ACID?

I guess you'd call it a loop-based composition tool.Â* Check it out,
it's
very popular.
--scott

I already have two loop-based composing tools:Â* Logic and Garageband.

So I don't see why you think I would need ACID, which I'd never even
heard of.

And Logic is a high-quality pro tool, so why would I need to spend
time and effort learning ACID, after I've already invested time and
money on Logic.

Tom Evans

But I mixed up the timeline.Â* I forgot that the writer wrote his
recommendation a few days before I bought Logic.


A rather important fact I would have thought when abusing someone for
trying to help!

Trevor.



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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?

On 11-10-2017 11:20, Mike Rivers wrote:

On 10/10/2017 10:42 PM, Tom Evans wrote:


My question has been answered because I bought and tried Logic.
That's the program I'll use for the forseeable future.


Your initial post was a question about what else there is to get since
you had some theysay against choosing it, you wanted something else.

OK, now get out of here and start making some music. In your next post,
include a link to one of your own compositions.


Indeed, let us have an open mind and expect a positive surprise.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen





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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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On 10/12/2017 12:57 AM, Trevor wrote:
Well established definition here. But as with everything else in life,
people often prefer their own definitions. Still you are the first I've
heard deny the existence of the "virtual multi-track" concept. The
"virtual" part is not a redundant concept for most of us *especially*
anyone who ever does live recording.


You're reading what you want to argue with into what I've written. I
never denied the existence of the concept of "virtual multitrack."
People were recording time code on analog tape and adding virtual tracks
(as many as the available hardware would allow) by synchronizing MIDI
sequencers to time code. In this case, audio tracks were recorded on
tape, time code drove a sequencer running on a computer, which in turn
played sounds on MIDI-controlled synthesizers.

If there were analog tracks available, the synthesizers could be
recorded on them for convenience. Otherwise, the synthesizer outputs
went into more mixer channels - THOSE were the "virtual tracks."

So, yeah, virtual tracks, one or many in a project, have been around for
a long time, longer than MIDI actually. Today, however, we do things
differently, eliminating (most of) the hardware synthesizers and letting
the same computer that's recording "real" audio produce the "virtual"
audio in its copious spare time.

But, honestly, I've never heard anyone use the term "virtual multitrack"
until you came along in this discussion.

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Tobiah Tobiah is offline
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Default What's the best digital music-recording program for a Macintoshcomputer user?



You made a false and stupid assumption


This describes everything I've heard from you to this point.


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On 13/10/2017 1:15 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 10/12/2017 12:57 AM, Trevor wrote:
Well established definition here. But as with everything else in life,
people often prefer their own definitions. Still you are the first
I've heard deny the existence of the "virtual multi-track" concept.
The "virtual" part is not a redundant concept for most of us
*especially* anyone who ever does live recording.


You're reading what you want to argue with into what I've written. I
never denied the existence of the concept of "virtual multitrack."


Good, so what exactly were you complaining about in my original comment?
(that you have deleted)


People were recording time code on analog tape and adding virtual tracks
(as many as the available hardware would allow) by synchronizing MIDI
sequencers to time code. In this case, audio tracks were recorded on
tape, time code drove a sequencer running on a computer, which in turn
played sounds on MIDI-controlled synthesizers.


Do you have a reference for anyone calling them "virtual tracks"? (other
than yourself) Never heard it myself. Just as when tape decks were
synchronised to give extra REAL tracks, NOT virtual.



If there were analog tracks available, the synthesizers could be
recorded on them for convenience. Otherwise, the synthesizer outputs
went into more mixer channels - THOSE were the "virtual tracks."


Not IMO, they were simply hardware synced instruments. But you seem to
have your own definition that you are welcome to.


So, yeah, virtual tracks, one or many in a project, have been around for
a long time, longer than MIDI actually. Today, however, we do things
differently, eliminating (most of) the hardware synthesizers and letting
the same computer that's recording "real" audio produce the "virtual"
audio in its copious spare time.


As I said all along, "virtual tracks" have little to do with MIDI,
(other than they CAN be MIDI) since you can now have hundreds of virtual
tracks of purely acoustic recordings. Basically what we had to do in
overdub with degraded sound quality every time a track was copied to add
something on top (and then could no longer be edited separately) can now
be done on a new track even if you only have a 2 channel interface.


But, honestly, I've never heard anyone use the term "virtual multitrack"
until you came along in this discussion.


Amazing, but irrelevant. I would have thought the concept was obvious to
anyone in the industry, but there you go.

Trevor.




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On 10/12/2017 10:32 PM, Trevor wrote:
I never denied the existence of the concept of "virtual multitrack."


Good, so what exactly were you complaining about in my original comment?
(that you have deleted)


I understood what you were talking about. What I objected to was your
use of the term "virtual multitrack" that you made up, as if it was
something really important and significant. I object, in general, to
terms that are made up and used for no good reason.

If you didn't make up the term, can you provide a reference that
legitimizes it, other than a post on the WWW?


People were recording time code on analog tape and adding virtual
tracks (as many as the available hardware would allow) by
synchronizing MIDI sequencers to time code.


Do you have a reference for anyone calling them "virtual tracks"? (other
than yourself) Never heard it myself.


This term has been around for so long I really can't remember when I
first heard it. If the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup archive goes
back to the 1990s, you'll probably find it there. I can tell you that
there was, maybe still is, a magazine named "Virtual Instruments" that
was all about using computers to produce sounds used in musical
compositions. That magazine came along after the concept of virtual
tracks in a multitrack DAW were pretty well accepted - recording of
tracks that yield the sounds of virtual instruments. No need to invent a
name for it.

Just as when tape decks were
synchronised to give extra REAL tracks, NOT virtual.


I agree with that except for the "Just as" part. Real audio sounds, and
not sequences of commands that cause something else to produce
synthesized sounds, are what are recorded on the slave deck.

If there were analog tracks available, the synthesizers could be
recorded on them for convenience. Otherwise, the synthesizer outputs
went into more mixer channels - THOSE were the "virtual tracks."


Not IMO, they were simply hardware synced instruments.


And that, in a nutshell, is what a "virtual track" is. But I guess you
just don't get it. You had to have been there. It was something to
really get excited about, knowing that, given time, more processing
power, and better hardware designs, the virtual sounds would get closer
and closer to the sound of real instruments - or, alternatively, that
sounds that aren't made by any organic musical instrument could actually
be played and used in a musical composition.

You need to read a good book about the history of electronic music, and
no, I can't recommend one.

As I said all along, "virtual tracks" have little to do with MIDI,


Technically, that's true. The Grateful Dead had a DEC PDP-8 computer on
stage that played sequences on a voltage-controlled synthesizer to go
along with their performances. Though nobody thought to give it a name
at the time, that was certainly a virtual track that added to their
performance. And, I suppose, one could call the backing track that the
lounge lizard uses to augment his one man band could be a virtual track
as well. But nobody thought to put that name to it.

you can now have hundreds of virtual
tracks of purely acoustic recordings.


We're getting kind of slippery here. You can have a virtual track
playing recorded samples of an acoustic instrument. However, the
instrument that was used to create the samples never played the part
that comes out of the computer.

Basically what we had to do in
overdub with degraded sound quality every time a track was copied to add
something on top (and then could no longer be edited separately) can now
be done on a new track even if you only have a 2 channel interface.


Uhhhhh . . . this is what MULTITRACK _RECORDING_ is all about. The
exciting development was that you no longer had to mix a previously
recorded part with a new part, record the mix, and throw away the
original part. If you don't understand that, then there's no point to
continuing this discussion.

But, honestly, I've never heard anyone use the term "virtual
multitrack" until you came along in this discussion.


Amazing, but irrelevant. I would have thought the concept was obvious to
anyone in the industry, but there you go.


It's obvious in the sense that I understand what you meant when you
wrote it, but it's also an unnecessary term. Would you say you were
"chopsticking" when you were eating your kung pao chicken? No, you're
just "eating."



--

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Tom Evans wrote:
On 2017-10-10 22:31:11 +0000, Scott Dorsey said:

Tom Evans wrote:

I already have two loop-based composing tools: Logic and Garageband.

So I don't see why you think I would need ACID, which I'd never even
heard of.


Because ACID will allow you to use sample libraries from wherever you
want,
whereas Garageband ties you into the samples that you keep saying you
don't
like the sound of.

And Logic is a high-quality pro tool, so why would I need to spend time
and effort learning ACID, after I've already invested time and money on
Logic.


Because clearly there's something you want to do that you're not able to
do with Logic. Otherwise you would not be here.
--scott


You made a false and stupid assumption, Scott.


Tautologies are low in information content but they're certainly not
stupid.

I'm here to follow-up -- to check if anyone answered my question about
what DAW they might recommend. To not check if anyone answered my
question would have been irrepsonsible.


One of the weird things that Usenet learned ( and the rest of the
online... things never did ) is that no answer is still no answer.

Tom Evans



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On 13/10/2017 10:23 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 10/12/2017 10:32 PM, Trevor wrote:
I never denied the existence of the concept of "virtual multitrack."


Good, so what exactly were you complaining about in my original comment?
(that you have deleted)


I understood what you were talking about. What I objected to was your
use of the term "virtual multitrack" that you made up, as if it was
something really important and significant. I object, in general, to
terms that are made up and used for no good reason.


You are welcome to go against the terminology others use of course. But
pretending I'm the only one when a simple google search could prove
otherwise is pointless.


If you didn't make up the term, can you provide a reference that
legitimizes it, other than a post on the WWW?


Ah you want a dictionary entry or nothing. I'm sure I don't care!


People were recording time code on analog tape and adding virtual
tracks (as many as the available hardware would allow) by
synchronizing MIDI sequencers to time code.


Do you have a reference for anyone calling them "virtual tracks"?
(other than yourself) Never heard it myself.


This term has been around for so long I really can't remember when I
first heard it. If the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup archive goes
back to the 1990s, you'll probably find it there.



If you didn't make up the term, can you provide a reference that
legitimizes it, other than a post on the WWW?


I can tell you that
there was, maybe still is, a magazine named "Virtual Instruments"


Virtual instruments is NOT the same thing as virtual tracks. I guess the
word "virtual" confuses you, so I'll just give up now.

Trevor.



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On 10/14/2017 1:18 AM, Trevor wrote:
I'll just give up now.


Thank you.

--

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On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:51:47 AM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 10/14/2017 1:18 AM, Trevor wrote:
I'll just give up now.


Thank you.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


Interesting. The same ones I have trouble with, others have trouble with.
As I always felt, in usenet forums, you'll always find the king of the hill posters.

Jack


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Phil W Phil W is offline
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"Geoff":

If you wanted to you could try it for free and find out (more intuitive
for starters). But you don't want to, so don't.

What is it that you are actually wanting to ask or contribute ?


He´s only wanting to troll and nothing else! Just like some years ago, when
he refused to learn anything necessary to make and record music, because he
just wanted to "make beautiful ART" or something like that.
It´s exactly the same arrogant behaviour now again... and back then, he also
would NOT post a link to any example of his oh so great "ART".

Go figure and use a killfile instead of replying to this troll.

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