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Ralph Barone[_3_] Ralph Barone[_3_] is offline
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Phil Allison wrote:
Ralph Barone wrote:

-------------------


PS: the OP just said lately that her keyboard could be battery powered if
desired. I think that's the big test to show whether the "hum" is coming
from the power supply, or the cable to the mixer.



** Some items can still hum though running on batteries, like an
elaborate electronic keyboard stuffed in a plastic box.



.... Phil

Oh, definitely. But if it hums while on batteries, there's no point
fiddling with the power supply to make it hum less.

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On 11/02/2018 12:08 AM, John Williamson wrote:

There are no stupid questions,


Only stupid people say that.


though there have been those on here
trying to push their own views on what you should be doing and how you
should do it. These may count as stupid answers...


Not taking any notice of the sensible answers is the really stupid bit.
But then many simply cannot sort the sensible ones from the stupid,
which is not necessarily their fault or they would not have asked in the
first place. But simply dismissing people who have tried to help is
pretty stupid though.

Trevor.

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On 11/02/2018 2:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2018 6:16 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
I suggested to Linda that the hum might actually be coming from the SMPS
wall wart, not the cabling.

I said that to check that, she could try connecting a different power
supply.


There isn't anything in a COMMERCIAL, APPROVED switching mode power
supply that can cause hum. They're surprisingly clean. Finding a
suitable substitute power supply, unless she'd bench-equipped like Phil
and me and maybe you is likely to be difficult. You need the right
voltage, pretty close to the right current, and the correct size plug
wired with the proper polarity.


I am skeptical, Mike. I spend much of my day tracking down RF noise coming
out of crappy switching supplies. It's true that good clean switchers do
exist, but it's also true that you're likely not to find them at the music
store or at Wal-Mart.

If a piece of gear hums by itself, that's an equipment problem. If you
get hum when you connect it to something else, that's a system problem
and there are many places to look for solutions. In my experience, a
power supply is a possible offender, but there are other places to look
for trouble - which may include isolating the power supply from the
common system ground (which may not be the brown stuff under the house).


Indeed, this is true. Switching supply noise does not sound like a hum.
Distinguishing hums, buzzes and hisses is half the struggle.

The original poster claims to have a hum.


Exactly, not something you usually get from an SMPS. Ground problems
OTOH......

Trevor.


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On 11/02/2018 2:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Linda Masterson wrote:
On 2/9/2018 8:24 PM, Trevor wrote:

Which hers doesn't have since it only has a headphone jack. I'd be
surprised if anything without a proper output socket is any more than a
toy though. (in fact I even have a TOY keyboard with proper MIDI sockets
and R+L/M sockets, so it's probably a cheap toy at that!) So I'm
wondering why the hell she is going to all the trouble in the first
place? A REAL keyboard would be my suggestion.


I am currently testing for the best wiring configuration. This $300.00
Yamaha keyboard's sampled sounds are much better than many of my other
keyboards costing $2500.00 and $3000.00 from yesteryear. Talk to Jack
Black and *many* others. Call it a toy, I have no earthly care. :-)


This may be the case, and if so you should think about how much money
you have saved, and realize that spending a couple hundred dollars for
a transformer isolation device is a small cost in comparison.



"couple of hundred"? Hell a $30 Behringer hum destroyer is all she needs
for that toy piano! Anything else is simply massive overkill.

Trevor.



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Linda Masterson Linda Masterson is offline
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Okay, so I speak another language than you guys. First the keyboard in
question had a SLIGHT BIT OF *NOISE* WHEN THE MIXER GAIN STAGING WAS
CRANKED. I shouldn't have said hum but if you check the English language
and definition:

Hum:
1.to make a low, continuous, droning sound.
2.to give forth an indistinct sound of mingled voices or *noises*.

I should have said *noise* and I am sorry.

The keyboard in question is a Yamaha YPG-235, and I just so happened to
get a notification from Guitar Center this morning of a *PRO AUDIO* sale
and this keyboard was selling for $299.99. LOL!!!

THE NOISE IS GONE and I thought I made that clear. I wired the star
quad cable like Mike suggested and I needed to split the braided
shielding in half and I soldered two short jumper wires (two of the
conductor wires from another cable (I used a blue and white wire for
those into color ;-) from the sleeve/shield (sorry if I am using the
wrong terminology) to the two 1/4 inch TS connectors. It eliminated what
little noise I had when CRANKED and blew the Livewire cable out of the
water which I will be returning. The Livewire though was much quieter
than my 1/4 inch TRS to two XLR cables. Capiche!

I used heat shrink and a heat gun to make it look tidy and neat and
where there is that V where the split is I used some of that white vinyl
electrical tape.

Looks great and no audible noise except what a dog might hear. This
keyboard can be used as a MIDI controller as well which can get a bit
expensive with 76 keys. It also has a graded keyboard for action but not
weighted by any means.

I have now spent no extra money by using parts and cable laying around
and I got the exact length needed which is around 14 feet tucked away
nicely. Sounds really good to my ears and I am very discerning when it
comes to sound samples along with no noise. :-)








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On 11/02/2018 07:52, Trevor wrote:
On 11/02/2018 2:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The original poster claims to have a hum.


Exactly, not something you usually get from an SMPS. Ground problems
OTOH......

Yeah, well, the OP has now changed the story again, and it wasn't a hum,
it was noise. It seems we are all wasting our time.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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On 11/02/2018 9:49 PM, Linda Masterson wrote:
Okay, so I speak another language than you guys. First the keyboard in
question had a SLIGHT BIT OF *NOISE* WHEN THE MIXER GAIN STAGING WAS
CRANKED.


I'd say your capitalised bit was more likely the problem.

Have you tried the *same gain setup* with the new magic cables ?

geoff
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On 09-02-2018 20:37, Linda Masterson wrote:

I might just purchase this for the job.


https://www.proaudiola.com/mobile/Pr...OX-SON-TWIN-ST


I don't care if it is a toy piano you have or not, some of the cheapers
ones have very good sounds. What does costs is good mechanics, your
problem, not mine.

What you need is this one:

https://www.thomann.de/dk/palmer_pli...ebertrager.htm

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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On 2/11/2018 2:27 AM, geoff wrote:
On 11/02/2018 9:49 PM, Linda Masterson wrote:
Okay, so I speak another language than you guys. First the keyboard in
question had a SLIGHT BIT OF *NOISE* WHEN THE MIXER GAIN STAGING WAS
CRANKED.


I'd say your capitalised bit was more likely the problem.

Have you tried the *same gain setup* with the new magic cables ?

geoff


Geoff, I have already stated that my new magic cable works perfectly.
No noise and great sound. Yippee!!!


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On 2/11/2018 2:39 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 09-02-2018 20:37, Linda Masterson wrote:

I might just purchase this for the job.


https://www.proaudiola.com/mobile/Pr...OX-SON-TWIN-ST


I don't care if it is a toy piano you have or not, some of the cheapers
ones have very good sounds. What does costs is good mechanics, your
problem, not mine.

What you need is this one:

https://www.thomann.de/dk/palmer_pli...ebertrager.htm

Â*Â* Kind regards

Â*Â* Peter Larsen



Why on earth would I buy this when I have already stated my new cable
works perfectly and why do many of you snip off what my post said to
mean something else entirely different??

I then said *NOT* about that cable in question!!! †‘

Led Zeppelin got it right when they said Communication Breakdown.

It seems many here do not comprehend English or maybe it is just a
second language. If one were to reread outside of this box what I have
said and I am not suggesting that anyone should or would, you would see
that most everything I have written is being misunderstood and probably
because many of you are coming in late and inferring things completely
wrong.

This is a great sociological event happening here and I am taking notes.

Kind regards back at you Peter but that is your Sig and not meant for me
of course. I hope it is anyway. By the way who is the guy who plays
great Classical guitar here and I know it wasn't Fletcher? Rhetorical
question and no need to respond.

Where is EveAnna when you need her the most? LOL!!!

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On 2/11/2018 1:44 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/02/2018 07:52, Trevor wrote:
On 11/02/2018 2:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The original poster claims to have a hum.


Exactly, not something you usually get from an SMPS. Ground problems
OTOH......

Yeah, well, the OP has now changed the story again, and it wasn't a hum,
it was noise. It seems we are all wasting our time.


What changed your mind? Just this morning you had a total different tone
and you were saying:

"There are no stupid questions, though there have been those on here

trying to push their own views on what you should be doing and how you
should do it. These may count as stupid answers...

"Please keep asking, though you may need to suppress the noise a bit

to find the signal in the answers."

Great quote for a smart, kind and compassionate human being.

Hum is noise as the dictionary example given in my fourth to last post
dictates.

Anyway, there is way too much white noise on this forum today meaning in
this era and I will refrain from ever posting here again. Have a good
life if this is what many of you call a life and you all can feel free
to go on arguing among yourselves. Another one bites the dust.

Go ahead and shoot me in my back while I am gone and you all will see
what kind of men you really are and don't worry I will not see who does it.









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On 11/02/2018 12:42, Linda Masterson wrote:
On 2/11/2018 1:44 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/02/2018 07:52, Trevor wrote:
On 11/02/2018 2:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The original poster claims to have a hum.

Exactly, not something you usually get from an SMPS. Ground problems
OTOH......

Yeah, well, the OP has now changed the story again, and it wasn't a
hum, it was noise. It seems we are all wasting our time.


What changed your mind? Just this morning you had a total different tone
and you were saying:

Asking questions is not stupid. You are now coming back with stupid
responses to the answers given.

Hum is noise as the dictionary example given in my fourth to last post
dictates.

In audio terms, hum is a low frequency noise of a defined pitch.

If you want to get into a subject, then learning the jargon is a good
idea, and as for your suggestion that some posters have English as a
second language you are correct. At least one of these posters has given
you good information which you have ignored.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Linda Masterson Control Freak and TRoll

---------------------------------------


Hum is noise as the dictionary example given in my fourth to last post
dictates.


** Dictionaries are no place to find definitions where every day words are being used as technical terms.

In the contest of electronic musical, audio and recording *equipment* "hum" equals " mains hum ". Not just any old noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_...f_electric_hum

FYI:

I'll allow that you are more than a little peculiar, suffering from ASD for example - but nevertheless a grandiose, PITA control freak and Troll.

Go away, stay away.




..... Phil


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On 12/02/2018 1:19 AM, Linda Masterson wrote:
On 2/11/2018 2:27 AM, geoff wrote:
On 11/02/2018 9:49 PM, Linda Masterson wrote:
Okay, so I speak another language than you guys. First the keyboard
in question had a SLIGHT BIT OF *NOISE* WHEN THE MIXER GAIN STAGING
WAS CRANKED.


I'd say your capitalised bit was more likely the problem.

Have you tried the *same gain setup* with the new magic cables ?

geoff


Geoff, I have already stated that my new magic cable works perfectly.
No noise and great sound. Yippee!!!



I ask, again, have you tried the new cable with your old (flawed ?) gain
structure and setting, which was probably the real and only cause of
your noise.

Have you tried star-quad for your mains cabling , and for the DC cable
from the keyboard PSU for further noise reduction and yet greater sounds
still ?

geoff
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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In article ,
Linda Masterson wrote:
Okay, so I speak another language than you guys. First the keyboard in
question had a SLIGHT BIT OF *NOISE* WHEN THE MIXER GAIN STAGING WAS
CRANKED. I shouldn't have said hum but if you check the English language
and definition:


Well, then you can totally ignore everything that everyone has said in
this entire thread, because people were all assuming that you actually
meant what you were saying and they were looking for a hum problem.

SO... let's start at the beginning. WHAT is this noise? What does it
sound like? Does it get louder when you turn the volume on the keyboard
up, or not?

THE NOISE IS GONE and I thought I made that clear. I wired the star
quad cable like Mike suggested and I needed to split the braided
shielding in half and I soldered two short jumper wires (two of the
conductor wires from another cable (I used a blue and white wire for
those into color ;-) from the sleeve/shield (sorry if I am using the
wrong terminology) to the two 1/4 inch TS connectors. It eliminated what
little noise I had when CRANKED and blew the Livewire cable out of the
water which I will be returning. The Livewire though was much quieter
than my 1/4 inch TRS to two XLR cables. Capiche!


Maybe, but what WAS the noise? If it was noise caused by poor gain
structure, it's going to come back. If it's noise caused by poor placement
of the power supply, it's going to come back. The noise may have had
absolutely nothing to do with the cable at all. How can anyone know if
we don't even know what kind of noise it is?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 12/02/2018 12:10 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:

Oh dear.

I think she was new to Usenet, and was quite probably put off by all the
testosterone.


Hopefully we all learnt something.


Gareth.



No. Simply put off by any of the generously-offered suggestions and
opinions that didn't involve star-quad cable.

geoff


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geoff wrote:

------------


Geoff, I have already stated that my new magic cable works perfectly.
No noise and great sound. Yippee!!!


I ask, again, have you tried the new cable with your old (flawed ?) gain
structure and setting, which was probably the real and only cause of
your noise.


** Have you never come across someone who is "allergic" to hum and noise ( eg buzzing or hiss) in audio gear ? I've met a few and am simply expected to fix the problem for them.

They mutter things like "noise is evil" and casually ask for crazy things like guitars with single coil PUs to be made hum free and ready to collect next day.

Sometimes they are naïve beginners and other times the very opposite.

Even if you show them that with *usable* settings dialled up, the hum or noise complained of is so low you can barely hear it in a quiet room - they remain unimpressed. All noise is evil to them - even noise you cannot hear.


Have you tried star-quad for your mains cabling,


** That is not nice, the OP is just about nutty enough to try that.


and for the DC cable
from the keyboard PSU for further noise reduction and yet greater sounds
still ?


** The Canare L-4E6S Star Quad the OP is so enfatuated with does have very good overall copper shielding and the OP just might have a local RFI problem - no way for us to know.

More likely though, it is simple listener error - every time she cranks the gain and listens for noise, she arrives at a new conclusion about the level.


..... Phil

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On 11/02/2018 8:44 PM, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/02/2018 07:52, Trevor wrote:
On 11/02/2018 2:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The original poster claims to have a hum.


Exactly, not something you usually get from an SMPS. Ground problems
OTOH......

Yeah, well, the OP has now changed the story again, and it wasn't a hum,
it was noise. It seems we are all wasting our time.


Yes sadly. Not uncommon though. :-(

Trevor.

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On 11/02/2018 11:28 PM, Linda Masterson wrote:
Led Zeppelin got it right when they said Communication Breakdown.


Exactly, mostly due to YOU.


It seems many here do not comprehend English


And many don't understand technical language, then complain when THEY
get it all wrong.


This is a great sociological event happening here and I am taking notes.


Let's hope you are much better at sociology than electronics then.

Trevor.

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On 11/02/2018 11:42 PM, Linda Masterson wrote:

Hum is noise as the dictionary example given in my fourth to last post
dictates.


Hum is a noise, but NOT all noise is Hum. Sadly you still can't admit
you were wrong.

Trevor.

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On 12/02/2018 7:36 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Maybe, but what WAS the noise? If it was noise caused by poor gain
structure, it's going to come back. If it's noise caused by poor placement
of the power supply, it's going to come back. The noise may have had
absolutely nothing to do with the cable at all.


In fact it's unlikely. But then we wouldn't have mega dollar cables if
people without any technical knowledge didn't have faith. :-)

Trevor.


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On 11-02-2018 13:28, Linda Masterson wrote:

On 2/11/2018 2:39 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:


On 09-02-2018 20:37, Linda Masterson wrote:


I might just purchase this for the job.


https://www.proaudiola.com/mobile/Pr...OX-SON-TWIN-ST


I don't care if it is a toy piano you have or not, some of the
cheapers ones have very good sounds. What does costs is good
mechanics, your problem, not mine.


What you need is this one:


https://www.thomann.de/dk/palmer_pli...ebertrager.htm


Why on earth would I buy this when I have already stated my new cable
works perfectly


Because of mains safety concerns. Being transformer isolated from
different and highly complex systems is a good habit. And such systems
may insist that your rig, whatever it is, is transformer isolated from them.

and why do many of you snip off what my post said to
mean something else entirely different??


Because it is good usenet manners to remove quote that is not commented
on. People who want to read your original post are free to so do.

I then said *NOT* about that cable in question!!! †‘


And I told you what you should do, no matter whether you have a problem.

Kind regards back at you Peter but that is your Sig and not meant for me
of course. I hope it is anyway.


Actually it is meant whenever I type it.

Where is EveAnna when you need her the most? LOL!!!


Ah, busy riding her bike probably.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen




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In article ,
geoff wrote:
On 11/02/2018 4:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Indeed, this is true. Switching supply noise does not sound like a hum.
Distinguishing hums, buzzes and hisses is half the struggle.

The original poster claims to have a hum.


Stuck B key ?


That's what drives me up the wall about working in Europe. The hum is flat,
and I am used to using hums and motor noises to judge pitch so with them
flat, everything goes wrong.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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In article , Trevor wrote:
On 12/02/2018 7:36 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Maybe, but what WAS the noise? If it was noise caused by poor gain
structure, it's going to come back. If it's noise caused by poor placement
of the power supply, it's going to come back. The noise may have had
absolutely nothing to do with the cable at all.


In fact it's unlikely. But then we wouldn't have mega dollar cables if
people without any technical knowledge didn't have faith. :-)


As long as people keep running pianos over microphone cables, we'll have
noise problems caused by cables.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 12/02/2018 14:24, Scott Dorsey wrote:
That's what drives me up the wall about working in Europe. The hum is flat,
and I am used to using hums and motor noises to judge pitch so with them
flat, everything goes wrong.
--scott

I'd recommend staying away from Japan, then, as some parts of the
country are 50Hz, others are 60Hz. Linked by a high voltage DC link.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:57:47 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
wrote:

geoff wrote:

------------


Geoff, I have already stated that my new magic cable works perfectly.
No noise and great sound. Yippee!!!


I ask, again, have you tried the new cable with your old (flawed ?) gain
structure and setting, which was probably the real and only cause of
your noise.


** Have you never come across someone who is "allergic" to hum and noise ( eg buzzing or hiss) in audio gear ? I've met a few and am simply expected to fix the problem for them.

They mutter things like "noise is evil" and casually ask for crazy things like guitars with single coil PUs to be made hum free and ready to collect next day.

Sometimes they are naïve beginners and other times the very opposite.

Even if you show them that with *usable* settings dialled up, the hum or noise complained of is so low you can barely hear it in a quiet room - they remain unimpressed. All noise is evil to them - even noise you cannot hear.


Have you tried star-quad for your mains cabling,


** That is not nice, the OP is just about nutty enough to try that.


and for the DC cable
from the keyboard PSU for further noise reduction and yet greater sounds
still ?


** The Canare L-4E6S Star Quad the OP is so enfatuated with does have very good overall copper shielding and the OP just might have a local RFI problem - no way for us to know.

More likely though, it is simple listener error - every time she cranks the gain and listens for noise, she arrives at a new conclusion about the level.


.... Phil


Back in the 80s we had a guy bring in a Marantz receiver that, with no
input and the volume control all the way up on extremely sensitive
headphones, a slight hum could be heard. The receiver tech didn't want
to do anything because the receiver was under warranty and within
spec. I said "what the hell, lets try to help this guy." I was able
to eliminate the "problem" by running a shielded cable in a different
route. The customer isn't always right but I figured he might tell
others about our good service.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
On 12/02/2018 14:24, Scott Dorsey wrote:
That's what drives me up the wall about working in Europe. The hum is flat,
and I am used to using hums and motor noises to judge pitch so with them
flat, everything goes wrong.

I'd recommend staying away from Japan, then, as some parts of the
country are 50Hz, others are 60Hz. Linked by a high voltage DC link.


Yeah, that's bad news. A recipe for weird beat notes on the border.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 13/02/2018 3:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
geoff wrote:
On 11/02/2018 4:38 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Indeed, this is true. Switching supply noise does not sound like a hum.
Distinguishing hums, buzzes and hisses is half the struggle.

The original poster claims to have a hum.


Stuck B key ?


That's what drives me up the wall about working in Europe. The hum is flat,
and I am used to using hums and motor noises to judge pitch so with them
flat, everything goes wrong.
--scott


Naa. In most of the world, not just Europe, it's a little sharp for G .

geoff
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Default Star Quad Cable Wiring (Canare)

On 13/02/2018 6:40 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 12/02/2018 14:24, Scott Dorsey wrote:
That's what drives me up the wall about working in Europe.* The hum is
flat,
and I am used to using hums and motor noises to judge pitch so with them
flat, everything goes wrong.
--scott

I'd recommend staying away from Japan, then, as some parts of the
country are 50Hz, others are 60Hz. Linked by a high voltage DC link.


Yeah , North Japan is 50HZ and the rest 60Hz.

For those who don't realise, most of the world is 50Hz. Just Southern
Japan, North America, most of South America, with a few tiny exceptions
are 60.

geoff
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Default Star Quad Cable Wiring (Canare)

Geoff wrote: "Yeah , North Japan is 50HZ and the rest 60Hz.

For those who don't realise, most of the world is 50Hz. Just Southern
Japan, North America, most of South America, with a few tiny exceptions
are 60.

geoff"


Philipppines - 240V/60Hz


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Geoff wrote:

------------


Yeah , North Japan is 50HZ and the rest 60Hz.


** Southern cities of Japan were bombed heavily at the end of WW2, while the northern cities were out of range to US bombers. In order to restore mains power quickly after Japan surrendered - the US Army brought in large diesel generators rated at 115VAC and 60Hz.

Overly long cable runs meant voltages sagged, so light bulbs and appliances were made and sold that suited 100VAC or even 90VAC supplies.


..... Phil
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