Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Bill McCullough
 
Posts: n/a
Default Jupiter Audio products

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?
  #2   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Bill McCullough wrote:
Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?




Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.

  #3   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Bill McCullough wrote:
Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?




Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.

  #4   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:26:02 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Bill McCullough wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?




Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.



And what did the other guy think?



It was never discussed. There was a moment, it couldn't have been more
than a second, after the Dunlavys were reconnected where both of us were
in shock, but nothing was said after that.


Did you tell him he could have saved $15,800 if he'd just bought a
couple of pairs of drivers from Madisound and had them do all the
design work, as you did? TIA.



Dev, anytime you, your gay family memebers, or the effete, lily-livered
pansy ass regulars on this group want to team up and build a speaker,
then do it. It ain't never gonna happen.

  #5   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:26:02 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Bill McCullough wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?




Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.



And what did the other guy think?



It was never discussed. There was a moment, it couldn't have been more
than a second, after the Dunlavys were reconnected where both of us were
in shock, but nothing was said after that.


Did you tell him he could have saved $15,800 if he'd just bought a
couple of pairs of drivers from Madisound and had them do all the
design work, as you did? TIA.



Dev, anytime you, your gay family memebers, or the effete, lily-livered
pansy ass regulars on this group want to team up and build a speaker,
then do it. It ain't never gonna happen.



  #6   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:35:58 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.


And what did the other guy think?



It was never discussed. There was a moment, it couldn't have been more
than a second, after the Dunlavys were reconnected where both of us were
in shock, but nothing was said after that.



He probably didn't want to hurt your feeling*, Gerg.

63s sounding like a million bucks over here in Merry Olde. Whatever
would you do with that kind of cash.




Guess who's drunk again!

  #7   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:35:58 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Well, I was over at a guy's house today comparing them to his $16,000
Dunlavy SC-Vs. I liked the sound of the Europas better, and it wasn't
even as close as I thought it would be.


And what did the other guy think?



It was never discussed. There was a moment, it couldn't have been more
than a second, after the Dunlavys were reconnected where both of us were
in shock, but nothing was said after that.



He probably didn't want to hurt your feeling*, Gerg.

63s sounding like a million bucks over here in Merry Olde. Whatever
would you do with that kind of cash.




Guess who's drunk again!

  #10   Report Post  
Bill McCullough
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...
On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


  #11   Report Post  
Bill McCullough
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...
On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?
  #12   Report Post  
Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om...
Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


I have heard rumors that they present an ignition hazard. Something
flammable inside the speaker.

Supposedly, they are a remarkable feat of engineering. The inventor, with no
prior experience, designed them on a Hooters napkin on a rainy afternoon. He
then verified with his own ears that they are the best speakers ever made.

When he gave the design to his builder, the pattern on the napkin was
incorporated. This accounts for the strange bulge at the back.


  #13   Report Post  
Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om...
Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


I have heard rumors that they present an ignition hazard. Something
flammable inside the speaker.

Supposedly, they are a remarkable feat of engineering. The inventor, with no
prior experience, designed them on a Hooters napkin on a rainy afternoon. He
then verified with his own ears that they are the best speakers ever made.

When he gave the design to his builder, the pattern on the napkin was
incorporated. This accounts for the strange bulge at the back.


  #14   Report Post  
Dogma4e
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 28 Oct 2003 18:49:46 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...
On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800,
(Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


Add a tanker ship full of snake oil, and you're right on target.
  #15   Report Post  
Dogma4e
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 28 Oct 2003 18:49:46 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...
On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800,
(Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


Add a tanker ship full of snake oil, and you're right on target.


  #16   Report Post  
Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra" wrote in message
news:lj7upvsn0c0fa313d0vbqlcmehpve1t8g8@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:35:27 GMT, MiNE 109
wrote:

In article z,
The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?

These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


That reminds me: Greg, are your speakers time-aligned?


I think they're very expertly TV aligned.

They are much-maligned.




  #17   Report Post  
Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra" wrote in message
news:lj7upvsn0c0fa313d0vbqlcmehpve1t8g8@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:35:27 GMT, MiNE 109
wrote:

In article z,
The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?

These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp


That reminds me: Greg, are your speakers time-aligned?


I think they're very expertly TV aligned.

They are much-maligned.




  #18   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om

So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!

Ironically, this is the same guy who has for years, been incessantly flaming
people who gave any credibility to technological approaches to audio. You
know, people who give any credibility to measurements and the like.

The means by which this crossover was designed by Madisound is 100% based on
measurements!

Madisound measured the on-axis frequency response and impedance curve of the
drivers, plugged it into a computer program, and out came component values.
Nothing wrong with this procedure, as far as it goes. However it does not
include things like the acoustical effects of the enclosure and the off-axis
response of the speaker drivers.

It is also true that while measurements can pick up some of the grosser
inadequacies of a loudspeaker's performance, the finest results are still
obtained by a highly experienced listener who tweaks the preliminary design.
This involves making small but well-informed adjustments to crossover parts
values and changing the design of the enclosure.




  #19   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om

So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!

Ironically, this is the same guy who has for years, been incessantly flaming
people who gave any credibility to technological approaches to audio. You
know, people who give any credibility to measurements and the like.

The means by which this crossover was designed by Madisound is 100% based on
measurements!

Madisound measured the on-axis frequency response and impedance curve of the
drivers, plugged it into a computer program, and out came component values.
Nothing wrong with this procedure, as far as it goes. However it does not
include things like the acoustical effects of the enclosure and the off-axis
response of the speaker drivers.

It is also true that while measurements can pick up some of the grosser
inadequacies of a loudspeaker's performance, the finest results are still
obtained by a highly experienced listener who tweaks the preliminary design.
This involves making small but well-informed adjustments to crossover parts
values and changing the design of the enclosure.




  #20   Report Post  
Joseph Oberlander
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill McCullough wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:


Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing
- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers
- sell them for reasonable markups.



  #21   Report Post  
Joseph Oberlander
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill McCullough wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:


Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?


This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing
- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers
- sell them for reasonable markups.

  #22   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net

This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing


Agreed.

- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker drivers. More
accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big enough quantities that
$20-30 gets them just about *anything they want*.

- sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


  #23   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net

This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing


Agreed.

- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker drivers. More
accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big enough quantities that
$20-30 gets them just about *anything they want*.

- sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


  #24   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Bill McCullough wrote:
The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:


Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?




Oh dear, another troll. If it's so easy, troll, then do it.

  #25   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Bill McCullough wrote:
The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:


Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?


These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?




Oh dear, another troll. If it's so easy, troll, then do it.



  #26   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Robert Morein wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om...

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?



I have heard rumors that they present an ignition hazard. Something
flammable inside the speaker.

Supposedly, they are a remarkable feat of engineering. The inventor, with no
prior experience, designed them on a Hooters napkin on a rainy afternoon. He
then verified with his own ears that they are the best speakers ever made.

When he gave the design to his builder, the pattern on the napkin was
incorporated. This accounts for the strange bulge at the back.



How's your pancreas doin', Bob?

  #27   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Robert Morein wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om...

Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?



I have heard rumors that they present an ignition hazard. Something
flammable inside the speaker.

Supposedly, they are a remarkable feat of engineering. The inventor, with no
prior experience, designed them on a Hooters napkin on a rainy afternoon. He
then verified with his own ears that they are the best speakers ever made.

When he gave the design to his builder, the pattern on the napkin was
incorporated. This accounts for the strange bulge at the back.



How's your pancreas doin', Bob?

  #28   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?



Bingo!



Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it? With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?

  #29   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?



Bingo!



Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it? With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?

  #30   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!


Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?


Because I want something better than that, and it's readily available from
many other sources.

With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?


I believe in the benefits of division of labor, and I recognize superior
expertise when I see it.




  #31   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!


Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?


Because I want something better than that, and it's readily available from
many other sources.

With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?


I believe in the benefits of division of labor, and I recognize superior
expertise when I see it.


  #32   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
ink.net

This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing


Agreed.

- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker drivers. More
accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big enough quantities that
$20-30 gets them just about *anything they want*.

- sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers for
$1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.
  #33   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
ink.net

This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but they:
- do real research and testing


Agreed.

- pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker drivers. More
accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big enough quantities that
$20-30 gets them just about *anything they want*.

- sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers for
$1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.
  #34   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
e.com



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!



Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?



Because I want something better than that, and it's readily available from
many other sources.



Better than what, Arny? You have no idea how the speakers sound.


With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?



I believe in the benefits of division of labor, and I recognize superior
expertise when I see it.



Are we talking about your wife again?

  #35   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
e.com



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!



Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny. If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?



Because I want something better than that, and it's readily available from
many other sources.



Better than what, Arny? You have no idea how the speakers sound.


With your
imagined metalurgy (sic) skills, you might be able to build your own
drivers--what's your excuse this time?



I believe in the benefits of division of labor, and I recognize superior
expertise when I see it.



Are we talking about your wife again?



  #36   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!


Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny.


Actually, I carefully edited any specific references to you out of my post,
Singh. Why you wanted to butt back into this particular discussion escapes
me, as you're getting your butt kicked again. Your alleged superior debating
skills have nothing to do with it, as if they actually existed. you're on
the weak side of the argument. This is an argument that not even Clarence
Darrow could win. BTW, you do know that he did win the "Monkey Trial", don't
you?

If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?


Because I want something better than that, and it's readily
available from many other sources.


Better than what, Arny? You have no idea how the speakers sound.


Which speakers mght that be? I can find out how speakers from many other
sources sound for free - no cost, no shipping, no obligation.

Since you brought up editing posts Singh, let's talk about the part of my
initial post that YOU edited out:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Ironically, this is the same guy who has for years, been incessantly
flaming
people who gave any credibility to technological approaches to audio. You
know, people who give any credibility to measurements and the like.

"The means by which this crossover was designed by Madisound is 100% based
on
measurements!

"Madisound measured the on-axis frequency response and impedance curve of
the
drivers, plugged it into a computer program, and out came component values.
Nothing wrong with this procedure, as far as it goes. However it does not
include things like the acoustical effects of the enclosure and the off-axis
response of the speaker drivers.

"It is also true that while measurements can pick up some of the grosser
inadequacies of a loudspeaker's performance, the finest results are still
obtained by a highly experienced listener who tweaks the preliminary design.
This involves making small but well-informed adjustments to crossover parts
values and changing the design of the enclosure.

So why aren't you defending yourself, Singh? You're replying and copying
parts of my posts, but not this part. Does the truth hurt? Don't you have a
snappy reply? Can I expect you to pull a Yustabe and go totally ballistic
and start ranting about "Krooglish"?






  #37   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bill McCullough" wrote in message
om


So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had
the speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed
the parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile"
speaker company. Is that about the size of it?


Bingo!


Nice to see you've gone back to the realm of the trolls where you
belong, Arny.


Actually, I carefully edited any specific references to you out of my post,
Singh. Why you wanted to butt back into this particular discussion escapes
me, as you're getting your butt kicked again. Your alleged superior debating
skills have nothing to do with it, as if they actually existed. you're on
the weak side of the argument. This is an argument that not even Clarence
Darrow could win. BTW, you do know that he did win the "Monkey Trial", don't
you?

If it's so easy, why haven't you done it?


Because I want something better than that, and it's readily
available from many other sources.


Better than what, Arny? You have no idea how the speakers sound.


Which speakers mght that be? I can find out how speakers from many other
sources sound for free - no cost, no shipping, no obligation.

Since you brought up editing posts Singh, let's talk about the part of my
initial post that YOU edited out:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


"Ironically, this is the same guy who has for years, been incessantly
flaming
people who gave any credibility to technological approaches to audio. You
know, people who give any credibility to measurements and the like.

"The means by which this crossover was designed by Madisound is 100% based
on
measurements!

"Madisound measured the on-axis frequency response and impedance curve of
the
drivers, plugged it into a computer program, and out came component values.
Nothing wrong with this procedure, as far as it goes. However it does not
include things like the acoustical effects of the enclosure and the off-axis
response of the speaker drivers.

"It is also true that while measurements can pick up some of the grosser
inadequacies of a loudspeaker's performance, the finest results are still
obtained by a highly experienced listener who tweaks the preliminary design.
This involves making small but well-informed adjustments to crossover parts
values and changing the design of the enclosure.

So why aren't you defending yourself, Singh? You're replying and copying
parts of my posts, but not this part. Does the truth hurt? Don't you have a
snappy reply? Can I expect you to pull a Yustabe and go totally ballistic
and start ranting about "Krooglish"?






  #38   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net


This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but
they:
- (1) do real research and testing


Agreed.


- (2) pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker
drivers. More accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big
enough quantities that $20-30 gets them just about *anything they
want*.


- (3) sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers for
$1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.


You obviously can't count Weil, because my first statement has nothing to do
with driver costs. If you were going to intelligently make this sort of
comment, you'd address it to my second and third statements. Your post
proves only that you can't count to three. Please come back when you obtain
that skill.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.


I don't know what sort of volumes Bugtussel is moving. Bugtussel has one
very strong advantage over Jupiter - a seasoned, technically-sophisticated
chief designer who still remembers what he learned in his science classes,
and aggressively built on a solid technical education over a period of
years. Did I mention that the last time we worked together we did a
demonstration of PCABX?


  #39   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net


This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but
they:
- (1) do real research and testing


Agreed.


- (2) pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker
drivers. More accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big
enough quantities that $20-30 gets them just about *anything they
want*.


- (3) sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers for
$1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.


You obviously can't count Weil, because my first statement has nothing to do
with driver costs. If you were going to intelligently make this sort of
comment, you'd address it to my second and third statements. Your post
proves only that you can't count to three. Please come back when you obtain
that skill.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.


I don't know what sort of volumes Bugtussel is moving. Bugtussel has one
very strong advantage over Jupiter - a seasoned, technically-sophisticated
chief designer who still remembers what he learned in his science classes,
and aggressively built on a solid technical education over a period of
years. Did I mention that the last time we worked together we did a
demonstration of PCABX?


  #40   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:37:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net


This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but
they:
- (1) do real research and testing


Agreed.


- (2) pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers


Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker
drivers. More accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big
enough quantities that $20-30 gets them just about *anything they
want*.


- (3) sell them for reasonable markups.


Agreed.


If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers for
$1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.


You obviously can't count Weil, because my first statement has nothing to do
with driver costs.


Sorry, you are correct. I meant your second statement.

I maintain that I *can* count however. If anything, I am guilty of
skimming.

If you were going to intelligently make this sort of
comment, you'd address it to my second and third statements. Your post
proves only that you can't count to three. Please come back when you obtain
that skill.


Well, now that I've acknowledged my mistake (and I was able to do it
without your level of spleen and spite), you can accept that your
demand is now met. Of course, I'm pretty sure that you knew that
anyway.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.


I don't know what sort of volumes Bugtussel is moving. Bugtussel has one
very strong advantage over Jupiter - a seasoned, technically-sophisticated
chief designer who still remembers what he learned in his science classes,
and aggressively built on a solid technical education over a period of
years. Did I mention that the last time we worked together we did a
demonstration of PCABX?


Well then, if you're going to imply that they are paying *more* for
their drivers than your hypothetical example, how much more do the
drivers have to be for you to still claim that their markups aren't
excessive vis a vis the Jupiters? Keep in mind that they have an
almost $2000 two-way speaker.
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions on basic wirjing setup Spirit Tech 28 March 31st 04 09:16 PM
Yet another DBT post Andrew Korsh High End Audio 205 February 29th 04 07:36 PM
Comments about Blind Testing watch king High End Audio 24 January 28th 04 05:03 PM
So is that it for Jupiter Audio? Sockpuppet Yustabe Audio Opinions 103 November 19th 03 06:45 AM
Questions to Gerg Jupiter Audio Dogma4e Audio Opinions 0 October 26th 03 08:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:41 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"