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#41
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Try this link
http://ldsg.snippets.org/idx.php3 Phil Abbate www. philsaudio.com "Paul Stamler" wrote in message ... : Here's a suggestion: Start with something small, rather than a big tower : system. A two-way speaker with a 6-1/2" Vifa woofer and a 1" Vifa tweeter is : a nice start. (They're a lot less spitty than much of the competition.) Get : Madisound to design you a 4th-order (24dB/octave) crossover, buy all the : parts from them and build the thing. Use Dickason's book to choose a box : size -- for a first project, I think do a sealed box, and go for a Qtc of : about .7. Use good wood -- either MDF or Baltic Birch -- and damp the walls : with sidewalk-separator panels. Stuff with Dacron, about 1 lb per cubic foot : of space, which you can buy at a fabric store. Avoid fiberglass, unless you : like to itch. : : Once you've built it, listen; it'll probably sound pretty good, maybe a : little bass-shy because it's a 6" in a closed box, but experimenting with : room placement will help. More important, you'll have figured out whether : you think this is a hell of a lot of fun, or a hell of a pain in the ass. If : the latter, well, you've got some decent small speakers for the bedroom, and : you can go buy something for the living room. (Check out Phase Technology : for stuff that's better'n usual bang for the buck.) If the former, : congratulations; you're hooked. Start plotting the towers. : : Peace, : Paul : : |
#42
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:
The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can sound great. You've clearly never built a boat. I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table. I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a couple thousand. But my labor is free, right? People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it makes perfect sense. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. |
#43
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:
The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can sound great. You've clearly never built a boat. I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table. I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a couple thousand. But my labor is free, right? People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it makes perfect sense. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. |
#44
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:13:17 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles
wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote: The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can sound great. You've clearly never built a boat. I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table. I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a couple thousand. But my labor is free, right? People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it makes perfect sense. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many, many prototypes - need I go on? d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#45
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:13:17 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles
wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote: The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can sound great. You've clearly never built a boat. I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table. I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a couple thousand. But my labor is free, right? People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it makes perfect sense. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many, many prototypes - need I go on? d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#46
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Mac Cool wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems, Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm not sure where to start. I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes. I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16 feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20% left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth can be whatever). Can anyone point me in the right direction? Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. However, I'm pretty happy with what I ended up with, although now that my system is in a larger room, I think the speakers are bass-shy. I went with sealed enclosures ("acoustic suspension") because I'm not a fan of the LF delay (phase shift) caused by ported boxes. However, unless you are looking at large LF drivers (10" or 12") and thus a 3-way design, sealed boxes often don't provide the real low end support that ported boxes do. My favorite speakers were Vandersteen 2ce, but they were too big for the place where I lived for the last 5 years... Now I wish I had them back... I also went with a 2-way design, using a 7" driver for the bass, and a 1" silk dome for the highs. The tradeoffs between 2-way and 3-way gave me headaches for months before I finally made my decision. Here's how I saw it: 2-way Simpler crossover design by a long shot! Lower cost (usually) Easier to match two drivers than three Easier to make the front baffle (only two holes) Often better imaging due to only one crossover point/phase shift 3-way Better bass because larger driver can be used for woofer (larger woofers don't go as high without lots of distortion!) Possibility of better midrange, esp. for voice due to having the full vocal range on one driver I used Weem's book, and got the latest revision at the time (from 1991 I think). But agreed: it's pretty technical, and the projects he suggests weren't in line with what I wanted. Someone else pointed out Ebay, but I'd suggest looking around at used shops instead because it's always best to hear the exact speakers you are buying. In the DC area, High Tech Exchange was a great resource. I'd guess there are similar shops in most larger cities. Here in Albuquerque, it's Hudson's Audio. Good luck, and let us know how it goes! Karl Winkler Lectrosonics, Inc. http://www.lectrosonics.com |
#47
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Mac Cool wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems, Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm not sure where to start. I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes. I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16 feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20% left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth can be whatever). Can anyone point me in the right direction? Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. However, I'm pretty happy with what I ended up with, although now that my system is in a larger room, I think the speakers are bass-shy. I went with sealed enclosures ("acoustic suspension") because I'm not a fan of the LF delay (phase shift) caused by ported boxes. However, unless you are looking at large LF drivers (10" or 12") and thus a 3-way design, sealed boxes often don't provide the real low end support that ported boxes do. My favorite speakers were Vandersteen 2ce, but they were too big for the place where I lived for the last 5 years... Now I wish I had them back... I also went with a 2-way design, using a 7" driver for the bass, and a 1" silk dome for the highs. The tradeoffs between 2-way and 3-way gave me headaches for months before I finally made my decision. Here's how I saw it: 2-way Simpler crossover design by a long shot! Lower cost (usually) Easier to match two drivers than three Easier to make the front baffle (only two holes) Often better imaging due to only one crossover point/phase shift 3-way Better bass because larger driver can be used for woofer (larger woofers don't go as high without lots of distortion!) Possibility of better midrange, esp. for voice due to having the full vocal range on one driver I used Weem's book, and got the latest revision at the time (from 1991 I think). But agreed: it's pretty technical, and the projects he suggests weren't in line with what I wanted. Someone else pointed out Ebay, but I'd suggest looking around at used shops instead because it's always best to hear the exact speakers you are buying. In the DC area, High Tech Exchange was a great resource. I'd guess there are similar shops in most larger cities. Here in Albuquerque, it's Hudson's Audio. Good luck, and let us know how it goes! Karl Winkler Lectrosonics, Inc. http://www.lectrosonics.com |
#48
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Don Pearce wrote:
I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many, many prototypes - need I go on? And this, in short, is how the NRC has managed to phenomenally boost the Canadian loudspeaker industry with comparatively low cost. They provide all of these things (except the many prototypes) to manufacturers for cheap. While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to compete. Let alone homebrewers. --scott (who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of commercial designs that he has liked the sound of) -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#49
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Don Pearce wrote:
I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many, many prototypes - need I go on? And this, in short, is how the NRC has managed to phenomenally boost the Canadian loudspeaker industry with comparatively low cost. They provide all of these things (except the many prototypes) to manufacturers for cheap. While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to compete. Let alone homebrewers. --scott (who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of commercial designs that he has liked the sound of) -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#50
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x-no archive: yes
Karl Winkler wrote: Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. I'm thinking of building my own white van. That way I could save a lot on speakers. -- ha |
#51
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x-no archive: yes
Karl Winkler wrote: Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. I'm thinking of building my own white van. That way I could save a lot on speakers. -- ha |
#52
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to compete. Let alone homebrewers. --scott (who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of commercial designs that he has liked the sound of) If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get the balance right. It's hard, but doable. What's much harder is to build multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all the resources you can muster and then some. Peace, Paul (found out the hard way) |
#53
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to compete. Let alone homebrewers. --scott (who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of commercial designs that he has liked the sound of) If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get the balance right. It's hard, but doable. What's much harder is to build multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all the resources you can muster and then some. Peace, Paul (found out the hard way) |
#54
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"Mac Cool" wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, snip Can anyone point me in the right direction? If you haven't already, do some reading on sites like these: http://www.audioxpress.com/ http://www.huennebeck-online.de/tmp/DIYaudio.html http://icc.skku.ac.kr/~won/electro/audiospeakers.html |
#55
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"Mac Cool" wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, snip Can anyone point me in the right direction? If you haven't already, do some reading on sites like these: http://www.audioxpress.com/ http://www.huennebeck-online.de/tmp/DIYaudio.html http://icc.skku.ac.kr/~won/electro/audiospeakers.html |
#56
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Scott Dorsey:
The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. You haven't actually built a boat, have you? How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. -- Mac Cool |
#57
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Scott Dorsey:
The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers. You haven't actually built a boat, have you? How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. -- Mac Cool |
#58
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anybody-but-bush:
Floating is equivelent to making noise. Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's different strokes for different folks. -- Mac Cool |
#59
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anybody-but-bush:
Floating is equivelent to making noise. Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's different strokes for different folks. -- Mac Cool |
#60
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Scott Dorsey:
So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you ten bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different cabinets. You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might be an inexpensive way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn about speaker design. Thanks Scott, I appreciate the help. -- Mac Cool |
#61
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Scott Dorsey:
So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you ten bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different cabinets. You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might be an inexpensive way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn about speaker design. Thanks Scott, I appreciate the help. -- Mac Cool |
#62
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Paul Stamler:
Here's a suggestion: Start with something small Thanks, it sounds like good advice and I'm going to follow it. I can always use some smaller speakers for the bedroom. -- Mac Cool |
#63
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Paul Stamler:
Here's a suggestion: Start with something small Thanks, it sounds like good advice and I'm going to follow it. I can always use some smaller speakers for the bedroom. -- Mac Cool |
#64
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Mac Cool wrote:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water? Most boats don't float very well after they've capsized. (There are some notable exceptions, one of which I am personally grateful for. Thankfully the lake was deep enough at that point so that when the mast rotated 180 degrees -- directly DOWN into the water -- it did not get stuck on anything, and we were able to rotate it another 180 degrees back to (regular) vertical.) - Logan |
#65
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Mac Cool wrote:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water? Most boats don't float very well after they've capsized. (There are some notable exceptions, one of which I am personally grateful for. Thankfully the lake was deep enough at that point so that when the mast rotated 180 degrees -- directly DOWN into the water -- it did not get stuck on anything, and we were able to rotate it another 180 degrees back to (regular) vertical.) - Logan |
#66
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You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that makes some noise. If you are looking for a good sounding speaker, accurate speaker, reference monitor, that speaker needs to do more than just float, it needs to do a lot of stuff just right and "anybody" can not do that right out of the gate, it will take experience and good tools. If you want to listen to music buy speakers if you want to be a speaker builder then plan on a long uphill struggle and spending some dough on tools and parts.. Philip Abbate LspCAD Dealer\ ( that is Loudspeaker Computer Aided Design) www.philsaudio.com/lspcad.htm "Mac Cool" wrote in message ... : anybody-but-bush: : : Floating is equivelent to making noise. : : Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to : speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, : is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats : and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's : different strokes for different folks. : -- : Mac Cool |
#67
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You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that makes some noise. If you are looking for a good sounding speaker, accurate speaker, reference monitor, that speaker needs to do more than just float, it needs to do a lot of stuff just right and "anybody" can not do that right out of the gate, it will take experience and good tools. If you want to listen to music buy speakers if you want to be a speaker builder then plan on a long uphill struggle and spending some dough on tools and parts.. Philip Abbate LspCAD Dealer\ ( that is Loudspeaker Computer Aided Design) www.philsaudio.com/lspcad.htm "Mac Cool" wrote in message ... : anybody-but-bush: : : Floating is equivelent to making noise. : : Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to : speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, : is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats : and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's : different strokes for different folks. : -- : Mac Cool |
#68
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U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles:
You've clearly never built a boat. I'm betting you haven't either. I build furniture. I build furniture. People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. Here you are clearly wrong, there are many, many people who build servicable boats. There are discussion groups, books and websites dedicated to small serviceable boats and I would bet that only a minority of home boat builders build high end boats. Why do you build furniture? Do you do it to save money or is it because you love creating something with your hands, having control over the quality of the finished product within your ability. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. Maybe some of them can. The best speaker in the world is wasted on an uneducated ear. However good at furniture building you are, it is doubtful that your first piece was perfect, or your second, or your third... -- Mac Cool |
#69
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U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles:
You've clearly never built a boat. I'm betting you haven't either. I build furniture. I build furniture. People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat" relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes to build a boat. But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests tend to think high end designs. Here you are clearly wrong, there are many, many people who build servicable boats. There are discussion groups, books and websites dedicated to small serviceable boats and I would bet that only a minority of home boat builders build high end boats. Why do you build furniture? Do you do it to save money or is it because you love creating something with your hands, having control over the quality of the finished product within your ability. Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than commercially available designs. Maybe some of them can. The best speaker in the world is wasted on an uneducated ear. However good at furniture building you are, it is doubtful that your first piece was perfect, or your second, or your third... -- Mac Cool |
#70
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Mac Cool wrote:
Floating is equivelent to making noise. Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's different strokes for different folks. He means it doesn't take much to build a speaker that will output some kind of sound, as it doesn't take much to build a boat that floats, either. But with higher performance from either device comes necessary investment in components, design, labor, testing, labor, testing, labor, etcd. |
#71
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Mac Cool wrote:
Floating is equivelent to making noise. Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise, is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's different strokes for different folks. He means it doesn't take much to build a speaker that will output some kind of sound, as it doesn't take much to build a boat that floats, either. But with higher performance from either device comes necessary investment in components, design, labor, testing, labor, testing, labor, etcd. |
#72
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anybody-but-bush:
You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that makes some noise. I don't misunderstand at all... it is a flawed analogy. Anyone with the tools and will can build a quite servicable boat. It may not be a yacht or racing boat, it won't be perfect, but it will provide pleasure and be a source of pride for the builder. What I do understand is that some people know what they know, but do not know how they know it. -- Mac Cool |
#73
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anybody-but-bush:
You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that makes some noise. I don't misunderstand at all... it is a flawed analogy. Anyone with the tools and will can build a quite servicable boat. It may not be a yacht or racing boat, it won't be perfect, but it will provide pleasure and be a source of pride for the builder. What I do understand is that some people know what they know, but do not know how they know it. -- Mac Cool |
#74
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Logan Shaw:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water? No one can guarantee a boat won't capsize. Boats are designed for the type of water they will be used in. If a boat is pushed beyond the limits it was designed for, it will fail. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think boat building is a good analogy for speaker building. -- Mac Cool |
#75
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Logan Shaw:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats, don't blame the boat. I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built would float. Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water? No one can guarantee a boat won't capsize. Boats are designed for the type of water they will be used in. If a boat is pushed beyond the limits it was designed for, it will fail. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think boat building is a good analogy for speaker building. -- Mac Cool |
#76
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Enough with the "bad analogy". Analogies don't have to be perfect in
every way, but this one was pretty good. Everyone else here "gets it". If you don't, just move on. Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email) |
#77
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Enough with the "bad analogy". Analogies don't have to be perfect in
every way, but this one was pretty good. Everyone else here "gets it". If you don't, just move on. Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email) |
#78
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ... If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get the balance right. It's hard, but doable. And you would still have no idea about cabinet reflections, resonances, etc. unless you have measurement facilities. What's much harder is to build multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all the resources you can muster and then some. Your method relies on the manufacturers data, so you have already ignored driver tolerances. It's not that hard to build boxes to similar tolerances. TonyP. |
#79
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ... If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get the balance right. It's hard, but doable. And you would still have no idea about cabinet reflections, resonances, etc. unless you have measurement facilities. What's much harder is to build multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all the resources you can muster and then some. Your method relies on the manufacturers data, so you have already ignored driver tolerances. It's not that hard to build boxes to similar tolerances. TonyP. |
#80
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No, you're not crazy but you won't achieve a great deal for $200. You could spend a large proportion ( if not all ) of that alone on decent crossover networks. Which you also have to design ! And there's more to it than the cookbook says btw. It would be a learning experience though. The economics of volume manufacturing mean that you'll be able to buy a better set of speakers than you can make for the same money. Graham |
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