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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
In these times of turmoil in much of society one can always count on a
source of sanity and continued sound, yup; a pun, information. Check out this page and find in it the inner confidence that something remains the same: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...ose-wave-radio |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 10/14/2013 6:01 PM, wrote:
In these times of turmoil in much of society one can always count on a source of sanity and continued sound, yup; a pun, information. Check out this page and find in it the inner confidence that something remains the same: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...ose-wave-radio Are you sure that's not The Onion? -- //Walt Yuh, who woulda thunk. But that is only an interesting tidbit. The real comfort comes from seeing what they do to that gear in the article. Its a kind of before and after test. Pure stereophile at its best. It makes one all warm and fuzzy inside. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
In article ,
wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...s-hft-and-feq- transform-bose-wave-radio Hmmm, Linn has maintained for many years that *any* unpowered speakers in the room has an effect on the sound--usually negative. Although I suppose if the unpowered speakers were better than the powered ones the effect could be positive. If those little, cheap speakers ($1200 worth!) helped the Bose, what would that say about the powered speakers on the Bose? And what would $1200 worth of powered speakers do? Greg |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
wrote in message
... On 10/14/2013 6:01 PM, wrote: In these times of turmoil in much of society one can always count on a source of sanity and continued sound, yup; a pun, information. Check out this page and find in it the inner confidence that something remains the same: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...ose-wave-radio Are you sure that's not The Onion? -- //Walt Yuh, who woulda thunk. But that is only an interesting tidbit. The real comfort comes from seeing what they do to that gear in the article. Its a kind of before and after test. Pure stereophile at its best. It makes one all warm and fuzzy inside. So what happens if you put them around in a concert hall? Gary Eickmeier |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 10/16/2013 6:10 AM, Greg Wormald wrote:
In article , wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...s-hft-and-feq- transform-bose-wave-radio Hmmm, Linn has maintained for many years that *any* unpowered speakers in the room has an effect on the sound--usually negative. And there's a lot to that. An unpowered speaker is a passive radiator that will vibrate in response to the sound field and re-radiate acoustic energy thereby changing how things sound. It's just like the sympathetic strings on a sitar or a hardanger fiddle. Whether the effect is "better" or not is a matter of taste, but in general engineers do not design speakers to be played in a room with some unknown passive radiator so the smart way to bet is that it's not an improvement. At your typical big-box retail showroom where you might have 100 or more passive radiators it's impossible to tell what a speaker might actually sound like. Speakers that are bass deficient will be helped along by all the passive radiators and resonating cabinets, while those with a 'proper' amount of bass will tend to sound muddy. I have a suspicion that manufacturers of 'budget' systems take this into account at the design phase. Although I suppose if the unpowered speakers were better than the powered ones the effect could be positive. Yeah, but in that case it would probably sound even better if the good ones were powered and the lousy ones binned. -- //Walt |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 10/16/2013 1:24 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:58:25 AM UTC-7, Walt wrote: On 10/16/2013 6:10 AM, Greg Wormald wrote: And there's a lot to that. An unpowered speaker is a passive radiator that will vibrate in response to the sound field and re-radiate acoustic energy thereby changing how things sound. It's just like the sympathetic strings on a sitar or a hardanger fiddle. I would really like see a report that shows this vibration is of sufficient energy to actually produce an audible sound at the listening position. And what is the reason that a "powered" speaker won't vibrate as well? What about other drivers in a multi-driver system? Aren't they stimulated to vibrate as well? Frankly...you might be able to get a little resonance...but if it's undamped to the point of producing audible sound from the sound field of another speaker...that speakers going to be a mess when powered. ScottW I actually get the opposite impression - that the unpowered speaker absorbs some of the sound energy. Maybe returns a lower energy wave out of phase; cancelling? But then what do I know? bl |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:58:25 AM UTC-7, Walt wrote:
On 10/16/2013 6:10 AM, Greg Wormald wrote: In article , wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...s-hft-and-feq- transform-bose-wave-radio Hmmm, Linn has maintained for many years that *any* unpowered speakers in the room has an effect on the sound--usually negative. And there's a lot to that. An unpowered speaker is a passive radiator that will vibrate in response to the sound field and re-radiate acoustic energy thereby changing how things sound. It's just like the sympathetic strings on a sitar or a hardanger fiddle. Whether the effect is "better" or not is a matter of taste, but in general engineers do not design speakers to be played in a room with some unknown passive radiator so the smart way to bet is that it's not an improvement. At your typical big-box retail showroom where you might have 100 or more passive radiators it's impossible to tell what a speaker might actually sound like. Speakers that are bass deficient will be helped along by all the passive radiators and resonating cabinets, while those with a 'proper' amount of bass will tend to sound muddy. I have a suspicion that manufacturers of 'budget' systems take this into account at the design phase. Although I suppose if the unpowered speakers were better than the powered ones the effect could be positive. Yeah, but in that case it would probably sound even better if the good ones were powered and the lousy ones binned. -- //Walt Everything in a room affects the acoustics of the room. Speakers in the room actually don't have a particularly big effect. If the drivers are absorbing acoustic energy it's probably a good thing if it's audible at all. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 10/16/2013 1:24 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:58:25 AM UTC-7, Walt wrote: And there's a lot to that. An unpowered speaker is a passive radiator that will vibrate in response to the sound field and re-radiate acoustic energy thereby changing how things sound. It's just like the sympathetic strings on a sitar or a hardanger fiddle. I would really like see a report that shows this vibration is of sufficient energy to actually produce an audible sound at the listening position. And what is the reason that a "powered" speaker won't vibrate as well? What about other drivers in a multi-driver system? Aren't they stimulated to vibrate as well? Frankly...you might be able to get a little resonance...but if it's undamped to the point of producing audible sound from the sound field of another speaker...that speakers going to be a mess when powered. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any technical study that quantitatively demonstrates this. But a speaker cabinet is basically a resonating chamber and will vibrate sympathetically. The question is whether the effect is strong enough to be noticeable. For a single pair of unpowered extraneous speakers, maybe not. For a wall full of them, most likely. And if the unpowered speakers are one of those highly resonant "one note bass" monstrosities one pair is likely to be enough. Agree with your comment about them being "a mess" when powered up. (c: By way of analogy, if you play, say, a snare drum in a room with a piano in it, the sound will be colored by the vibrations from the piano. If someone presses down on the loud pedal, you will definitely hear the effect. Why would speakers be immune from this basic physical phenomenon? -- //Walt |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 10/16/2013 9:25 AM, news wrote:
So what happens if you put them around in a concert hall? People steal them. Those little aluminum discs are worth fifty bucks a pop! //Walt |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
On 16 Oct 2013 19:35:23 GMT, Walt wrote:
On 10/16/2013 1:24 PM, ScottW wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:58:25 AM UTC-7, Walt wrote: And there's a lot to that. An unpowered speaker is a passive radiator that will vibrate in response to the sound field and re-radiate acoustic energy thereby changing how things sound. It's just like the sympathetic strings on a sitar or a hardanger fiddle. I would really like see a report that shows this vibration is of sufficient energy to actually produce an audible sound at the listening position. And what is the reason that a "powered" speaker won't vibrate as well? What about other drivers in a multi-driver system? Aren't they stimulated to vibrate as well? Frankly...you might be able to get a little resonance...but if it's undamped to the point of producing audible sound from the sound field of another speaker...that speakers going to be a mess when powered. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any technical study that quantitatively demonstrates this. But a speaker cabinet is basically a resonating chamber and will vibrate sympathetically. The question is whether the effect is strong enough to be noticeable. For a single pair of unpowered extraneous speakers, maybe not. For a wall full of them, most likely. And if the unpowered speakers are one of those highly resonant "one note bass" monstrosities one pair is likely to be enough. Agree with your comment about them being "a mess" when powered up. (c: By way of analogy, if you play, say, a snare drum in a room with a piano in it, the sound will be colored by the vibrations from the piano. If someone presses down on the loud pedal, you will definitely hear the effect. Why would speakers be immune from this basic physical phenomenon? A piano has hundreds of undamped resonators (strings) that are easy to excite. A (decent) loudspeaker has one or two low q resonances at low frequencies that are hard to excite. A loudspeaker has much the same effect on acoustics as the same size box without drive units. A certain Scottish manufacturer came up with this nonsense to justify single speaker demos so you couldn't directly compare the competition and hear just how bad their speakers were. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
"Walt" wrote in message
... On 10/16/2013 9:25 AM, news wrote: So what happens if you put them around in a concert hall? People steal them. Those little aluminum discs are worth fifty bucks a pop! Not to me they're not! Gary Eickmeier |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Old faithful
"Greg Wormald" wrote in message
... In article , wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...s-hft-and-feq- transform-bose-wave-radio Hmmm, Linn has maintained for many years that *any* unpowered speakers in the room has an effect on the sound--usually negative. Although I suppose if the unpowered speakers were better than the powered ones the effect could be positive. Linn's claims of this nature have been put to the blind test and found a bit lacking: http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/ba...x_testing2.htm " The day began with two brief tests of the Tiefenbrun claim that undriven transducers (digital alarm watches, telephones, headphones, or other loudspeakers) in the same room audibly degrade the sound quality - a claim which forms the rationale behind their "single speaker" demonstration demand. Firstly, a digital alarm watch with piezoelectric "beeper" was held about 500 mm behind Tiefenbrun's head while he listened to the loudspeaker reproduction from his stereo seat on the couch, with the watch either fully exposed or clasped firmly between the palms of my hands. We were assured that the latter artifice would muffle any deleterious effects. This was thus a single-blind test: The testee did not know the covered/uncovered status of the watch at each trial, but the tester did know. A random series of 20 trials was conducted while Remington cued up the turntable (playing a female vocalist) on each occasion, as he did throughout the day. Tiefenbrun's result: 10 correct responses in 20 trials, an outcome which shows no ability to discriminate between the two situations. The second test, also single-blind, used a Linn "Kan" loudspeaker as the undriven transducer. Again the female vocalist was used as source material. The loudspeaker lay on the thickly-carpeted floor behind the listening couch. It was placed either on its side (the "uncovered" condition) or on its face (the "covered" condition) according to a random series of choices. Ten trials were conducted during which Tiefenbrun achieved a score of 5 correct out of 10. Again, this demonstrates no discrimination ability beyond what one would expect purely on the basis of chance. " Key phrases: "demonstrates no discrimination ability beyond what one would expect purely on the basis of chance." If those little, cheap speakers ($1200 worth!) helped the Bose, what would that say about the powered speakers on the Bose? And what would $1200 worth of powered speakers do? Look like expectation bias generators to me! ;-) |
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