I searched the archives on this thinking it must be a much asked about
topic, but much to my surprise, I couldn't really find answers.
Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size
of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it
can play. If this is true, I am wondering what the purpose of
different sizes is. Here are a few questions:

1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

Thanks for any help,
Roger

In article ,
1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Maximum SPL output at a given frequency is a function of displacement.

All else equal distortion is a function of excursion which is less
when you have a larger surface area.

2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

No.

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

No. Bass slam comes from mid-bass output (preferably clean,
undistorted, and uncompressed) and this isn't a function of
driver size.

Boundary reinforcement and room modes can provide an artificial
boost here.


4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

The increased surface area means less excursion is required (lower
distortion).
--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

I feel you have been quite misled.

Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size
of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it
can play.

Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper.

1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Not necessarily, this is determined partly by the sensitivity of your box,
which in turn can depend on enclosure size, voice coil parameters etc.

2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

Would not say so.

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

No, these differences could be attributed to the damping factor of the amp,
enclosure type (vented/sealed) and so on but typically not to size.

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

Thanks for any help,
Roger

whoosh wrote:

1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Sometimes... There are many variables in speaker contruction that include
the cone size, the motor strength, the resonance of the speaker and so on.

Each variable can change how the speaker sounds, or determine what sounds
the speaker plays the loudest....

Your only addressing one of many variables (cone size) and generally the
larger the cone the better it is for playing low sounds... small speakers
can
play low sounds also (even a 4 inch speaker can play 20Hz) but generally
the larger cone speaker can play lower easier...

A very general way to see this is by looking at the specs of the speaker,
FS is the resonant frequency of the speaker, and typicly a larger speaker
will have a lower FS...

But, even a smaller speaker can have a lower FS when the manufacturer uses

a heavier cone weight or you can achieve this by adding weight to a cone,
thus
lowering the FS... This may not be a good thing... so FS is obviously
not the
only varable thats inportant....

Large speakers can also be OK for frequencies higher than normally used,
forinstance
one of my favorite systems used 15s for midrange.... Its nice to find a
system
that the mids and highs can keep up with the very loud bass....

But most car 15s and many smaller car drivers are designed for the lowest
FS, sometimes they
just add weight to small drivers which evenmakes the small drivers no
longer good
for mid range.... Unfortunatly alot of folks think 6 inch is good
midrange, but many
6 inch components and seperate drivers have so much weight added to make
them play
LOW, they are no longer fit for mids....

Really, the best way to judge which speaker is best for which sounds is
not the cone
size but instead the actual sounds they produce... you can almost do this
pretty well
just by using your ear if you know what to listen for and listen to the
drivers individually
as well as seperatly.... Or if you have access to test gear you can run a
few sweeps
on the drivers and compare the sensitivity and frequency response.


2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

Sizes alone, NO.
But different speakers are DEFINATLY better for different types of
music.

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

its very common to hear this but its not always true....
a 15 and a 12 if everything else were equal it might be true, but most of
the time
the manufacturers want the 12 to play low so they may add weight (use a
heaveier cone) to get a lower FS and then the 12 may be very sluggish for
the tighter bass and not work out how you might expect it to.

Typicly only a freq response sweep will tell us the differences...
Some speaker guys can tell just by pushing in a speaker cone with a
finger.
Some speaker guys can tell just be looking closely at the speakers
contruction.

I like LARGE drivers, even for mid range, but to get good mids you mist
use
a very light cone (typicly)... ;-)

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

if all other variables are unchanged this may be true, but I dont think
its fair to
say in the real world... Since so many folks want LOW BASS and dont have
room
for big drivers, the manufacturers often try to make the smaller drivers
play lower
by doctoring the other variables and then just comparing JUST cone size is
no longer
a good way to tell....

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Usually, assuming all else is equal. It's hard to get all else to be equal
though...

2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

No.

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

Nope.

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

This looks like the same question as #1.

Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size
of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it
can play.

Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper.

What do you mean by "go deeper"?

MZ wrote:

Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go deeper.

What do you mean by "go deeper"?

And an even better questions is WHATS A PROPER ENCLOSURE..??
Sounds like someone is assuming there is a such thing as a proper enclosure..
Almost like saying one enclosure is BEST....

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...

/snip/

Too much info in your head, Eddie. One of these days you're gonna think too
much and your head will explode, LOL!

Thanks to everyone for the replies and for learnin' me a little
something about subs!

Roger

Great Answer!

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
whoosh wrote:

1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Sometimes... There are many variables in speaker contruction that include
the cone size, the motor strength, the resonance of the speaker and so on.

Each variable can change how the speaker sounds, or determine what sounds
the speaker plays the loudest....

Your only addressing one of many variables (cone size) and generally the
larger the cone the better it is for playing low sounds... small speakers
can
play low sounds also (even a 4 inch speaker can play 20Hz) but generally
the larger cone speaker can play lower easier...

A very general way to see this is by looking at the specs of the speaker,
FS is the resonant frequency of the speaker, and typicly a larger speaker
will have a lower FS...

But, even a smaller speaker can have a lower FS when the manufacturer uses

a heavier cone weight or you can achieve this by adding weight to a cone,
thus
lowering the FS... This may not be a good thing... so FS is obviously
not the
only varable thats inportant....

Large speakers can also be OK for frequencies higher than normally used,
forinstance
one of my favorite systems used 15s for midrange.... Its nice to find a
system
that the mids and highs can keep up with the very loud bass....

But most car 15s and many smaller car drivers are designed for the lowest
FS, sometimes they
just add weight to small drivers which evenmakes the small drivers no
longer good
for mid range.... Unfortunatly alot of folks think 6 inch is good
midrange, but many
6 inch components and seperate drivers have so much weight added to make
them play
LOW, they are no longer fit for mids....

Really, the best way to judge which speaker is best for which sounds is
not the cone
size but instead the actual sounds they produce... you can almost do this
pretty well
just by using your ear if you know what to listen for and listen to the
drivers individually
as well as seperatly.... Or if you have access to test gear you can run a
few sweeps
on the drivers and compare the sensitivity and frequency response.


2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

Sizes alone, NO.
But different speakers are DEFINATLY better for different types of
music.

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

its very common to hear this but its not always true....
a 15 and a 12 if everything else were equal it might be true, but most of
the time
the manufacturers want the 12 to play low so they may add weight (use a
heaveier cone) to get a lower FS and then the 12 may be very sluggish for
the tighter bass and not work out how you might expect it to.

Typicly only a freq response sweep will tell us the differences...
Some speaker guys can tell just by pushing in a speaker cone with a
finger.
Some speaker guys can tell just be looking closely at the speakers
contruction.

I like LARGE drivers, even for mid range, but to get good mids you mist
use
a very light cone (typicly)... ;-)

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

if all other variables are unchanged this may be true, but I dont think
its fair to
say in the real world... Since so many folks want LOW BASS and dont have
room
for big drivers, the manufacturers often try to make the smaller drivers
play lower
by doctoring the other variables and then just comparing JUST cone size is
no longer
a good way to tell....

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

Dirk Diggler? Ron Jeremy?

FHLH........ pr0n

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Anyway, if I understand correctly from what I have read here, the size
of a subwoofer does not determine how low the bass notes are that it
can play.

Generally a larger woofer in a properly built enclosure _will_ go
deeper.

What do you mean by "go deeper"?

"MZ" wrote in message
...
1) Are larger ones just able to play louder without distorting or
straining as hard?

Generally speaking larger ones play lower and can handle more power thereby
producing more volume. The more air you move the more sound you get which
larger ones have the ability to do.

2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

Again generally speaking yes but also depends on the quality of the sub

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

yes smaller ones are generally tighter but again some quality big ones will
also give you a tight punchy sound. depends on the manufacturer

4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

Yes and no. larger ones need more power to move the greater cone area .
the bigger the cone the lower the note again assuming the quality is good.

Generally speaking larger ones play lower and can handle more power
thereby
producing more volume. The more air you move the more sound you get which
larger ones have the ability to do.

Nobody has been able to tell me what they mean exactly by "play lower."
Care to take a shot at it?


2) Are different sizes better for different types of music?

Again generally speaking yes but also depends on the quality of the sub

3) I've heard that smaller subs are better for punch, like kick drums,
and larger ones are better for long, resonating bass notes. Is there
any truth to this?

yes smaller ones are generally tighter but again some quality big ones
will
also give you a tight punchy sound. depends on the manufacturer

The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso than
the sub itself. Yet the primary determinant of the "tightness" of your bass
is actually the midbass drivers. This should be evident by looking at basic
Fourier theory.


4) Do larger ones have to "strain" less or work less hard to reproduce
the same notes as smaller ones?

Yes and no. larger ones need more power to move the greater cone area .

This isn't true.

the bigger the cone the lower the note again assuming the quality is good.

Huh?

MZ wrote:

The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso than
the sub itself.

I dont think I would agree with that mark. An enclosure can change the
speaker response, but when I think of tight, I think of a woofer with good
midbass, not making a smaller enclosure.

delete_spam wrote:

Generally speaking larger ones play lower

Lower than what..??
if a 4 inch speaker can play down to 20Hz which is the lower limit
for most humans, then how can a 12 inch or 15 inch play lower..??

and can handle more power thereby
producing more volume.

a larger driver may NOT have more power handling capacity.
the size of the cone is not indicitive of power handling at all..

Eddie

The bottom line is that the enclosure dictates the "tightness" moreso
than
the sub itself.

I dont think I would agree with that mark. An enclosure can change the
speaker response, but when I think of tight, I think of a woofer with good
midbass, not making a smaller enclosure.

What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make was
that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure as it
is by changing the sub. I'd guess that you still wouldn't agree with this.
But as Archie Bunker once said, que seru seru.

MZ wrote:

What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make was
that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure as it
is by changing the sub. I'd guess that you still wouldn't agree with this.
But as Archie Bunker once said, que seru seru.

ha ha ha

Yes, your right, I still dont agree.... ;-)

I would prefer to choose the correct driver
rather than trying to modify the box to make the
driver sound like you want it to....

Eddie Runner

What I said wasn't entirely accurate. The point I was trying to make
was
that it's as easy to change the "tightness" by modifying the enclosure
as it
is by changing the sub. I'd guess that you still wouldn't agree with
this.
But as Archie Bunker once said, que seru seru.

ha ha ha

Yes, your right, I still dont agree.... ;-)

I would prefer to choose the correct driver
rather than trying to modify the box to make the
driver sound like you want it to....

Choosing the correct equipment is always recommended! But the point is that
the enclosure dictates as much as the woofer does in terms of
"tightness"...and "playing low" and all these other things that people
appear to be attributing to subwoofer size. And, as I pointed out in my
other post, "tightness" is probably influenced the most by the midbass
driver situation, simply because that's the frequency range where
"tightness" usually resides, so to speak.