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Arny Krueger
 
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Default Does audio quality still matter?

AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?'
By Janice Brown


New York City-

The question posed by the New York chapter of the AES at its May 12 meeting,
"Does quality matter, or has the iPod already defeated the listening room?"
proved emphatic not only to the distinguished panelists, but also to a
particularly outspoken audience. Moderated by Adam Sohmer, of Sohmer
Associates, and orchestrated by AES/NY chairman Allan Tucker, the panel
discussion called producer/engineers David Baker and Elliot Fishkin; senior
director, new technology BMG Music Kevin Clement; and NHT/NHT Pro GM and
co-founder Chris Byrne to the stage.
"The mass-market consumer is very comfortable with MP3 quality audio,"
Clement stated. "When they download music, they even download it in the
smallest, lowest quality offered so that they can fit as many songs in their
iPod as possible."

Acknowledging a significant improvement in quality of downloadable music,
from the MP3 up through the AAC, AIFF and the Apple Lossless codec, the
panelists seemed to agree that listening on an iPod can actually be pretty
satisfying. As an explanation for widespread MP3 acceptance, one attendee
suggested, "The record companies are throwing quality away, with the way
records are being produced; CDs have become so harsh and distorted that the
MP3 actually seems to soften the music. Over-mastering and over-modulation
are obscuring the quality differance between the CD and other
data-compressed formats."

With representation from various segments of the marketplace, the discussion
even led to designating where responsibilities lie moving forward. Tucker
wondered whether anyone stops and just listens to music anymore, "sits in
front of a great set of speakers in a great room, or has listening become
like wallpaper--is has to coexist with everything else you're doing at the
same time?" When he asked, "Has that requirement that there be an essential
quality to the music disappeared and therefore, should we engineers not fret
so much over the source quality because it's going to be delivered a mere
shadow of its original self?" Byrne stepped up to the plate.
"I have to put that on my side of the industry," he asserted, referring to
loud speaker manufacturers. "Consumers have changed their listening
patterns, and we need to adapt out products to that change. We're not
offering them products right now for the PC or anywhere else where they are
listening to music. I don't think it's the consumer not caring, as much as
it's our reponsibility for not supplying the product."
Addressing those who may well still be engaging in a more traditional
listening room, perhaps in addition to a portable experiance, Fishkin
opined, "I think the traditional hi-fi business is dead." Of course, the
majority agreed that the traditional listening room has merely changed, with
the home theater market driving high-definition video and audio.

The warring factions of DVD-A and SACD were covered significantly, though
most in attendance agreed that more pressing to the consumer dollar is in
the record companies' establishing an incentive-driven retail chain for
selling digital music. Mazer, who has produced several DVD-As, including
Neil Young's Harvest, Frank Sinatra: Sinatra at the sands, and Santana's
Supernatural, along with SACDs such as Janis Joplin's Cheap Thrills, plugged
the DVD-A format, saying, "For a consumer product, you have to give them
something more than just the audio."
Clement concurred, adding, "When we [BMG] look at the new high-resolution
formats, we like DVD-A because of three reasons: the visual element,
surround sound, and third and least significantly, the quality. Consumers
don't care about quality."

While Clement offered an answer to the question fueling the discussion in
the first place, Fishkin pointed out, importantly, "There's an enormous
amount of good news mixed in with all this, which is that people really want
to listen to music."

AES


  #2   Report Post  
Wylie Williams
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

The average person never had high standards for audio quality. Being old
enough to remember when mono and consoles reigned I also remember that
"HiFi" was essentially a fad for men. Most guys bought hi fi (and later
stereo) not because they were audiophiles or music lovers but because it was
the thing to do. Time has moved on and now there are multiple fads- home
theater, X-Box, SUVs, McMansions, et al, which have taken attention from
stereo/sound quality.
Still, my guess is that there are probably as many real audioplies as there
ever were. Maybe more. So it's not all doom and gloom. Instead of thinking
of it as a lowering of standards I suggest you think of it as think of it as
a reversion to the norm.

Wylie Williams
The Speaker and Stereo Store

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?'
By Janice Brown


New York City-

The question posed by the New York chapter of the AES at its May 12

meeting,
"Does quality matter, or has the iPod already defeated the listening

room?"
proved emphatic not only to the distinguished panelists, but also to a
particularly outspoken audience. Moderated by Adam Sohmer, of Sohmer
Associates, and orchestrated by AES/NY chairman Allan Tucker, the panel
discussion called producer/engineers David Baker and Elliot Fishkin;

senior
director, new technology BMG Music Kevin Clement; and NHT/NHT Pro GM and
co-founder Chris Byrne to the stage.
"The mass-market consumer is very comfortable with MP3 quality audio,"
Clement stated. "When they download music, they even download it in the
smallest, lowest quality offered so that they can fit as many songs in

their
iPod as possible."

Acknowledging a significant improvement in quality of downloadable music,
from the MP3 up through the AAC, AIFF and the Apple Lossless codec, the
panelists seemed to agree that listening on an iPod can actually be pretty
satisfying. As an explanation for widespread MP3 acceptance, one attendee
suggested, "The record companies are throwing quality away, with the way
records are being produced; CDs have become so harsh and distorted that

the
MP3 actually seems to soften the music. Over-mastering and over-modulation
are obscuring the quality differance between the CD and other
data-compressed formats."

With representation from various segments of the marketplace, the

discussion
even led to designating where responsibilities lie moving forward. Tucker
wondered whether anyone stops and just listens to music anymore, "sits in
front of a great set of speakers in a great room, or has listening become
like wallpaper--is has to coexist with everything else you're doing at the
same time?" When he asked, "Has that requirement that there be an

essential
quality to the music disappeared and therefore, should we engineers not

fret
so much over the source quality because it's going to be delivered a mere
shadow of its original self?" Byrne stepped up to the plate.
"I have to put that on my side of the industry," he asserted, referring to
loud speaker manufacturers. "Consumers have changed their listening
patterns, and we need to adapt out products to that change. We're not
offering them products right now for the PC or anywhere else where they

are
listening to music. I don't think it's the consumer not caring, as much as
it's our reponsibility for not supplying the product."
Addressing those who may well still be engaging in a more traditional
listening room, perhaps in addition to a portable experiance, Fishkin
opined, "I think the traditional hi-fi business is dead." Of course, the
majority agreed that the traditional listening room has merely changed,

with
the home theater market driving high-definition video and audio.

The warring factions of DVD-A and SACD were covered significantly, though
most in attendance agreed that more pressing to the consumer dollar is in
the record companies' establishing an incentive-driven retail chain for
selling digital music. Mazer, who has produced several DVD-As, including
Neil Young's Harvest, Frank Sinatra: Sinatra at the sands, and Santana's
Supernatural, along with SACDs such as Janis Joplin's Cheap Thrills,

plugged
the DVD-A format, saying, "For a consumer product, you have to give them
something more than just the audio."
Clement concurred, adding, "When we [BMG] look at the new high-resolution
formats, we like DVD-A because of three reasons: the visual element,
surround sound, and third and least significantly, the quality. Consumers
don't care about quality."

While Clement offered an answer to the question fueling the discussion in
the first place, Fishkin pointed out, importantly, "There's an enormous
amount of good news mixed in with all this, which is that people really

want
to listen to music."

AES




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Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?'
By Janice Brown

It does TO ME.


  #4   Report Post  
New Geoff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?


"Robert Morein" protested...

It does TO ME.


Me too. I might accept lower quality if I want to have something to listen
to when travelling, or working alone in the lab at the weekend (terribly
noisy, those fatigue tests!), but I know I can come home and get some
serious listening in.

It's getting like beer - all wishy-washy to appeal to the lowest common
denominator - but we have to give thanks to the little brewers who still
care about taste . . . .

I wonder . . . . what are they teaching in schools these days when it comes
to music class? Even now, 30 years on, I can remember clearly the whole
concept of classical music falling into place as I sat, eyes closed,
listening to "Wee Mick" playing us Schubert on the system he'd gone out and
bought himself.

I guess I'm not the only one here who would rather hunt out old vinyl than
pay out for new CD releases. Besides, there's a certain sensual pleasure
that comes with carefully handling that black circle and gently lowering the
stylus into the groove.

Excuse me - I just have to go and have a cold shower . . . .

________
Geoff B


PS - hello everybody.


--
To reply, kick THE BALL.


  #6   Report Post  
New Geoff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?


"George M. Middius" had obviously been chewing on one of those odd cactus
buttons...

Did anyone understand that??

Perhaps he's read Finnigan's Wake too many times . . . .


  #9   Report Post  
Sander deWaal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

Lionel said:

I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that
the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers.
For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player
they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****.
The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds
better than my old Philips mono electrophone.
I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past
which has never existed. ;-)


Hey, I'm not *that* old!
Maybe I was just happy enough to be born in a family where (audio)
quality did matter.
My father experimented with the top audio gear of its time, I took it
a step further and became a DIY-er.
I still blame him for trading the Radford SC22/STA25 combo for a huge
Japanese receiver back in 1974 or so. :-)
That *definitely* wasn't an improvement.
Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I
made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last
year.

Yep, the old man knows about quality :-)

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy
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Lionel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

Sander deWaal wrote:

Lionel said:


I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that
the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers.
For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player
they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****.
The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds
better than my old Philips mono electrophone.
I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past
which has never existed. ;-)



Hey, I'm not *that* old!
Maybe I was just happy enough to be born in a family where (audio)
quality did matter.
My father experimented with the top audio gear of its time, I took it
a step further and became a DIY-er.
I still blame him for trading the Radford SC22/STA25 combo for a huge
Japanese receiver back in 1974 or so. :-)
That *definitely* wasn't an improvement.
Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I
made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last
year.

Yep, the old man knows about quality :-)


It's good, he has done a part of the way for you.
  #13   Report Post  
Lionel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

John Atkinson a écrit :

George M. Middius wrote in message . ..


[snippppppppppppppp]

You're scaring me, George. :-)


Don't push him, he is already very hammy ! ;-)
  #14   Report Post  
Acne Krooker
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

Mr. Sander's its like you can proove any of your lie's about toobs Mr.
Dewwal. When I was, fourteen a nice man in the drugstore asked me to
"polish" his toob. Its like you could service a tube any where Mr.
Sander's. Have you ever tested a tube'd amp Mr. Dewall? Been there done,
that, with a raincoat. ROFFLAMMO! Back when, before I invented the IC
for modernizating amplifier's its like you didn't even get an education
Mr. Atkinsin. Funny how there are no Mercedes's's with toobed amp's Mr.
Boon or whatever your name is. When I, was in the Army I learned how to
put out a big fire with a tube amp but, I'll bet your vacuum doesn't
suck like the toobs I use Mr. Big Time Sockpuppet Lawyer. Given the
prooven fact that, I can hear all sorts of humming with, its like a
cricket but with a subwoofer. LOL! Not hardly Mr. "Stereophile" in your
lumpy sock's. If you want, to believe the lie of the month in some
ragazine its like theres a lawsuit threatening to fix your Villager,
with radar's in the snow. LOt"S! ;-(


You're scaring me, George. :-)


Prove it.


Thank's Rickmannn for admitting you're class envy, like scieience
prooved that much as a jetfighter that can go "BOOM" if, I want it to,
its like I hardly adminestererered a single blind test in my life,
Rockmin. LoL ! ;-(
I just wish you,were'nt so disingeniouiouoiuis you too, NoT!
The darkened doors of my church, wont' hide the fact that if, let me
put it this way Rackmonn its like the cake , over, here, looks like a
obsollete vinyl, tube biggot!

GMAB.


;-(
  #15   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

"Sam Byrams" wrote in message
om

There will always be a hardcore group that wants, for lack of a better
term, "The ****":i.e. the genuine, unpolluted real article. That's why
there is-or should be-a serious audio business and then what they have
at WalMart.


How do you define "a serious audio business"?

Is seriousness a state of mind or a state of equipment? Can it be estimated
from the number of digits in the budget, or the number of decades in
continuous operation with no significant technical changes?

For those of you that get-and it's free, you should-"Tape op"
magazine, Walter Sear has a good interview in the current issue. Make
no mistake: Tape Op caters largely to the lo-fi, DIY, Pro Tools loving
segment of the recording industry/hobby.


Note gratuitous slam of more modern technology than the retro-tech of Walter
Sears.. Admittedly Pro Tools is pretty retro-tech all by itself, but
compared to Walter Sear's digs, its as modern as today's newspaper.

Nonetheless: Walter Sear has a nice tagline.


"The Recorded Sound Sucks-We're Trying to Make It Better"


If his web site is any indication of his thinking, his proposed solution
will be a return to the 70s and 80s.




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Sander deWaal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

The Artist said:

Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I
made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last
year.


Utopias! Zowee :-)


Well, I steered him in the right direction....... :-)

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy
  #17   Report Post  
Sander deWaal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does audio quality still matter?

The Artist said:

"Sander deWaal" emitted :

Utopias! Zowee :-)


Well, I steered him in the right direction....... :-)


And what does he think of them.. disappointing?

;-)


Oh absolutely.
I almost had to keep him from throwing them in the bin.
After I assured him that they're his life insurance for the next 20
years, he folded and let me put them back in place :-)

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy
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