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Does audio quality still matter?
AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?'
By Janice Brown New York City- The question posed by the New York chapter of the AES at its May 12 meeting, "Does quality matter, or has the iPod already defeated the listening room?" proved emphatic not only to the distinguished panelists, but also to a particularly outspoken audience. Moderated by Adam Sohmer, of Sohmer Associates, and orchestrated by AES/NY chairman Allan Tucker, the panel discussion called producer/engineers David Baker and Elliot Fishkin; senior director, new technology BMG Music Kevin Clement; and NHT/NHT Pro GM and co-founder Chris Byrne to the stage. "The mass-market consumer is very comfortable with MP3 quality audio," Clement stated. "When they download music, they even download it in the smallest, lowest quality offered so that they can fit as many songs in their iPod as possible." Acknowledging a significant improvement in quality of downloadable music, from the MP3 up through the AAC, AIFF and the Apple Lossless codec, the panelists seemed to agree that listening on an iPod can actually be pretty satisfying. As an explanation for widespread MP3 acceptance, one attendee suggested, "The record companies are throwing quality away, with the way records are being produced; CDs have become so harsh and distorted that the MP3 actually seems to soften the music. Over-mastering and over-modulation are obscuring the quality differance between the CD and other data-compressed formats." With representation from various segments of the marketplace, the discussion even led to designating where responsibilities lie moving forward. Tucker wondered whether anyone stops and just listens to music anymore, "sits in front of a great set of speakers in a great room, or has listening become like wallpaper--is has to coexist with everything else you're doing at the same time?" When he asked, "Has that requirement that there be an essential quality to the music disappeared and therefore, should we engineers not fret so much over the source quality because it's going to be delivered a mere shadow of its original self?" Byrne stepped up to the plate. "I have to put that on my side of the industry," he asserted, referring to loud speaker manufacturers. "Consumers have changed their listening patterns, and we need to adapt out products to that change. We're not offering them products right now for the PC or anywhere else where they are listening to music. I don't think it's the consumer not caring, as much as it's our reponsibility for not supplying the product." Addressing those who may well still be engaging in a more traditional listening room, perhaps in addition to a portable experiance, Fishkin opined, "I think the traditional hi-fi business is dead." Of course, the majority agreed that the traditional listening room has merely changed, with the home theater market driving high-definition video and audio. The warring factions of DVD-A and SACD were covered significantly, though most in attendance agreed that more pressing to the consumer dollar is in the record companies' establishing an incentive-driven retail chain for selling digital music. Mazer, who has produced several DVD-As, including Neil Young's Harvest, Frank Sinatra: Sinatra at the sands, and Santana's Supernatural, along with SACDs such as Janis Joplin's Cheap Thrills, plugged the DVD-A format, saying, "For a consumer product, you have to give them something more than just the audio." Clement concurred, adding, "When we [BMG] look at the new high-resolution formats, we like DVD-A because of three reasons: the visual element, surround sound, and third and least significantly, the quality. Consumers don't care about quality." While Clement offered an answer to the question fueling the discussion in the first place, Fishkin pointed out, importantly, "There's an enormous amount of good news mixed in with all this, which is that people really want to listen to music." AES |
#2
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Does audio quality still matter?
The average person never had high standards for audio quality. Being old
enough to remember when mono and consoles reigned I also remember that "HiFi" was essentially a fad for men. Most guys bought hi fi (and later stereo) not because they were audiophiles or music lovers but because it was the thing to do. Time has moved on and now there are multiple fads- home theater, X-Box, SUVs, McMansions, et al, which have taken attention from stereo/sound quality. Still, my guess is that there are probably as many real audioplies as there ever were. Maybe more. So it's not all doom and gloom. Instead of thinking of it as a lowering of standards I suggest you think of it as think of it as a reversion to the norm. Wylie Williams The Speaker and Stereo Store "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?' By Janice Brown New York City- The question posed by the New York chapter of the AES at its May 12 meeting, "Does quality matter, or has the iPod already defeated the listening room?" proved emphatic not only to the distinguished panelists, but also to a particularly outspoken audience. Moderated by Adam Sohmer, of Sohmer Associates, and orchestrated by AES/NY chairman Allan Tucker, the panel discussion called producer/engineers David Baker and Elliot Fishkin; senior director, new technology BMG Music Kevin Clement; and NHT/NHT Pro GM and co-founder Chris Byrne to the stage. "The mass-market consumer is very comfortable with MP3 quality audio," Clement stated. "When they download music, they even download it in the smallest, lowest quality offered so that they can fit as many songs in their iPod as possible." Acknowledging a significant improvement in quality of downloadable music, from the MP3 up through the AAC, AIFF and the Apple Lossless codec, the panelists seemed to agree that listening on an iPod can actually be pretty satisfying. As an explanation for widespread MP3 acceptance, one attendee suggested, "The record companies are throwing quality away, with the way records are being produced; CDs have become so harsh and distorted that the MP3 actually seems to soften the music. Over-mastering and over-modulation are obscuring the quality differance between the CD and other data-compressed formats." With representation from various segments of the marketplace, the discussion even led to designating where responsibilities lie moving forward. Tucker wondered whether anyone stops and just listens to music anymore, "sits in front of a great set of speakers in a great room, or has listening become like wallpaper--is has to coexist with everything else you're doing at the same time?" When he asked, "Has that requirement that there be an essential quality to the music disappeared and therefore, should we engineers not fret so much over the source quality because it's going to be delivered a mere shadow of its original self?" Byrne stepped up to the plate. "I have to put that on my side of the industry," he asserted, referring to loud speaker manufacturers. "Consumers have changed their listening patterns, and we need to adapt out products to that change. We're not offering them products right now for the PC or anywhere else where they are listening to music. I don't think it's the consumer not caring, as much as it's our reponsibility for not supplying the product." Addressing those who may well still be engaging in a more traditional listening room, perhaps in addition to a portable experiance, Fishkin opined, "I think the traditional hi-fi business is dead." Of course, the majority agreed that the traditional listening room has merely changed, with the home theater market driving high-definition video and audio. The warring factions of DVD-A and SACD were covered significantly, though most in attendance agreed that more pressing to the consumer dollar is in the record companies' establishing an incentive-driven retail chain for selling digital music. Mazer, who has produced several DVD-As, including Neil Young's Harvest, Frank Sinatra: Sinatra at the sands, and Santana's Supernatural, along with SACDs such as Janis Joplin's Cheap Thrills, plugged the DVD-A format, saying, "For a consumer product, you have to give them something more than just the audio." Clement concurred, adding, "When we [BMG] look at the new high-resolution formats, we like DVD-A because of three reasons: the visual element, surround sound, and third and least significantly, the quality. Consumers don't care about quality." While Clement offered an answer to the question fueling the discussion in the first place, Fishkin pointed out, importantly, "There's an enormous amount of good news mixed in with all this, which is that people really want to listen to music." AES |
#3
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Does audio quality still matter?
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... AES/New York Asks: 'Does Quality Matter?' By Janice Brown It does TO ME. |
#4
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Does audio quality still matter?
"Robert Morein" protested... It does TO ME. Me too. I might accept lower quality if I want to have something to listen to when travelling, or working alone in the lab at the weekend (terribly noisy, those fatigue tests!), but I know I can come home and get some serious listening in. It's getting like beer - all wishy-washy to appeal to the lowest common denominator - but we have to give thanks to the little brewers who still care about taste . . . . I wonder . . . . what are they teaching in schools these days when it comes to music class? Even now, 30 years on, I can remember clearly the whole concept of classical music falling into place as I sat, eyes closed, listening to "Wee Mick" playing us Schubert on the system he'd gone out and bought himself. I guess I'm not the only one here who would rather hunt out old vinyl than pay out for new CD releases. Besides, there's a certain sensual pleasure that comes with carefully handling that black circle and gently lowering the stylus into the groove. Excuse me - I just have to go and have a cold shower . . . . ________ Geoff B PS - hello everybody. -- To reply, kick THE BALL. |
#6
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Does audio quality still matter?
"George M. Middius" had obviously been chewing on one of those odd cactus buttons... Did anyone understand that?? Perhaps he's read Finnigan's Wake too many times . . . . |
#7
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Does audio quality still matter?
Sander deWaal a écrit :
"New Geoff" m.gjb SPHERICAL said: "Robert Morein" protested... It does TO ME. Me too. I might accept lower quality if I want to have something to listen to when travelling, or working alone in the lab at the weekend (terribly noisy, those fatigue tests!), but I know I can come home and get some serious listening in. There will always be people who value quality over quantity. As long as this is the case, there will be tube amps, record players, cartridges, planar speakers and other good audio stuff. The other lot.......let them buy the latest Sony **** and be happy. I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers. For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****. The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds better than my old Philips mono electrophone. I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past which has never existed. ;-) Ironically, in the piece that Arny quoted, it was said that the MP3 algorithm "softened" the harsh CD sound of today. Maybe that's why more and more people are interested in tube gear? :-) |
#8
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Does audio quality still matter?
Sander deWaal a écrit :
"New Geoff" m.gjb SPHERICAL said: "Robert Morein" protested... It does TO ME. Me too. I might accept lower quality if I want to have something to listen to when travelling, or working alone in the lab at the weekend (terribly noisy, those fatigue tests!), but I know I can come home and get some serious listening in. There will always be people who value quality over quantity. As long as this is the case, there will be tube amps, record players, cartridges, planar speakers and other good audio stuff. The other lot.......let them buy the latest Sony **** and be happy. I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers. For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****. The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds better than my old Philips mono electrophone. I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past which has never existed. ;-) Ironically, in the piece that Arny quoted, it was said that the MP3 algorithm "softened" the harsh CD sound of today. Maybe that's why more and more people are interested in tube gear? :-) |
#9
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Does audio quality still matter?
Lionel said:
I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers. For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****. The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds better than my old Philips mono electrophone. I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past which has never existed. ;-) Hey, I'm not *that* old! Maybe I was just happy enough to be born in a family where (audio) quality did matter. My father experimented with the top audio gear of its time, I took it a step further and became a DIY-er. I still blame him for trading the Radford SC22/STA25 combo for a huge Japanese receiver back in 1974 or so. :-) That *definitely* wasn't an improvement. Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last year. Yep, the old man knows about quality :-) -- Sander deWaal Vacuum Audio Consultancy |
#11
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Does audio quality still matter?
Sander de Waal wrote:
"New Geoff" m.gjb SPHERICAL said: "George M. Middius" had obviously been chewing on one of those odd cactus buttons... Did anyone understand that?? Perhaps he's read Finnigan's Wake too many times . . . . Despite the relative short life span of Usenet and RAO, this newsgroup has its history. George's Krooglish is impeccable, even better as the original. What version of Krooglish Koding he uses I don't know, but he must be several releases ahead of me. -- Sander deWaal Vacuum Audio Consultancy I think maybe his Krooglish is one of the beta-formats now in its testing phase. Unfortunately, as you imply, RAO has a long and unfortunate history of Krooglish-encoded posts and threads. Bruce J. Richman |
#12
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Does audio quality still matter?
Sander deWaal wrote:
Lionel said: I don't know what was your life in Netherland but here I must say that the average level of "music quality" has increased for the teenagers. For the same cost I paid, 30 years ago, for a crappy cassette player they can have something better even if it's the latest Sony ****. The 128kb MP3 that you can download from a peer2peer network sounds better than my old Philips mono electrophone. I'm always surprised when people dreams of this kind of "ideal" past which has never existed. ;-) Hey, I'm not *that* old! Maybe I was just happy enough to be born in a family where (audio) quality did matter. My father experimented with the top audio gear of its time, I took it a step further and became a DIY-er. I still blame him for trading the Radford SC22/STA25 combo for a huge Japanese receiver back in 1974 or so. :-) That *definitely* wasn't an improvement. Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last year. Yep, the old man knows about quality :-) It's good, he has done a part of the way for you. |
#13
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Does audio quality still matter?
John Atkinson a écrit :
George M. Middius wrote in message . .. [snippppppppppppppp] You're scaring me, George. :-) Don't push him, he is already very hammy ! ;-) |
#14
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Does audio quality still matter?
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#15
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Does audio quality still matter?
"Sam Byrams" wrote in message
om There will always be a hardcore group that wants, for lack of a better term, "The ****":i.e. the genuine, unpolluted real article. That's why there is-or should be-a serious audio business and then what they have at WalMart. How do you define "a serious audio business"? Is seriousness a state of mind or a state of equipment? Can it be estimated from the number of digits in the budget, or the number of decades in continuous operation with no significant technical changes? For those of you that get-and it's free, you should-"Tape op" magazine, Walter Sear has a good interview in the current issue. Make no mistake: Tape Op caters largely to the lo-fi, DIY, Pro Tools loving segment of the recording industry/hobby. Note gratuitous slam of more modern technology than the retro-tech of Walter Sears.. Admittedly Pro Tools is pretty retro-tech all by itself, but compared to Walter Sear's digs, its as modern as today's newspaper. Nonetheless: Walter Sear has a nice tagline. "The Recorded Sound Sucks-We're Trying to Make It Better" If his web site is any indication of his thinking, his proposed solution will be a return to the 70s and 80s. |
#16
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Does audio quality still matter?
The Artist said:
Soon thereafter he bought a Quad 33/303/FM3 set, which he used until I made him a dedicated hybrid MOSFETamp to match his JM Lab Utopias last year. Utopias! Zowee :-) Well, I steered him in the right direction....... :-) -- Sander deWaal Vacuum Audio Consultancy |
#17
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Does audio quality still matter?
The Artist said:
"Sander deWaal" emitted : Utopias! Zowee :-) Well, I steered him in the right direction....... :-) And what does he think of them.. disappointing? ;-) Oh absolutely. I almost had to keep him from throwing them in the bin. After I assured him that they're his life insurance for the next 20 years, he folded and let me put them back in place :-) -- Sander deWaal Vacuum Audio Consultancy |
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