Many High End products are now only available in either 115 or 230 VAC
versions despite the fact it's so much easier to build a multi-voltage
transformer as has been common for fifty years.

It's a way to further enable their Euro distributors to rear-end their
native clientele, is what I have discovered.

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots and
a ground. That's balanced power, and much cheaper than expensive center
tapped transformers giving 60-0-60. When my listening room was refurbed
I had them put in air conditioner outlets which they did, although they
didn't quite believe why I wanted them.

Why the Stereophile/TAS crowd isn't touting the benefits of the common
air conditioner outlet...oh yeah, no high markup there.

In article .com,
wrote:

Many High End products are now only available in either 115 or 230 VAC
versions despite the fact it's so much easier to build a multi-voltage
transformer as has been common for fifty years.

It's a way to further enable their Euro distributors to rear-end their
native clientele, is what I have discovered.

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots and
a ground. That's balanced power, and much cheaper than expensive center
tapped transformers giving 60-0-60. When my listening room was refurbed
I had them put in air conditioner outlets which they did, although they
didn't quite believe why I wanted them.

Why the Stereophile/TAS crowd isn't touting the benefits of the common
air conditioner outlet...oh yeah, no high markup there.

Stereophile talked up dedicated AC lines a decade or so ago,
recommending them as a cheaper and more effective source of clean power
than tweaky line conditioners.

Because, as you point out, manufacturers don't offer 230v as an option,
there's little reason to mention it.

Stephen

Stephen said:

In article .com,
wrote:

Many High End products are now only available in either 115 or 230 VAC
versions despite the fact it's so much easier to build a multi-voltage
transformer as has been common for fifty years.

It's a way to further enable their Euro distributors to rear-end their
native clientele, is what I have discovered.

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots and
a ground. That's balanced power, and much cheaper than expensive center
tapped transformers giving 60-0-60. When my listening room was refurbed
I had them put in air conditioner outlets which they did, although they
didn't quite believe why I wanted them.

Why the Stereophile/TAS crowd isn't touting the benefits of the common
air conditioner outlet...oh yeah, no high markup there.

Stereophile talked up dedicated AC lines a decade or so ago,
recommending them as a cheaper and more effective source of clean power
than tweaky line conditioners.

Agreed. I learned about dedicated outlets by reading Stereophile. JA and J-10
have always been huge proponents of them. I've put in two of them, and there's
a huge improvement. The first one cost me $350, because I had it done by a
professional. The second one was installed by a friend and myself, and we did
it for less than $50, and that included the hospital-grade outlet.

Best $50 I ever spent on audio.

Boon

wrote:

Many High End products are now only available in either 115 or 230
VAC
versions despite the fact it's so much easier to build a
multi-voltage
transformer as has been common for fifty years.

Case in point would be the counter-example provided by a highly
inexpensive DVD player that I recently dissasembled and examined. It
did not use a multi-voltage transformer as such, but instead used a
relatively complex switchmode power supply that automatically adapted
itself to work with a wide variety of power line voltages and
frequencies. Only the detachable power cord needed to match the wall
outlets in whatever country it was used in. This part is routinely
available in various styles from a large number of third-party sources.

It's a way to further enable their Euro distributors to rear-end
their
native clientele, is what I have discovered.

It has been reported that at least one high end vendor has added
circuitry that monitors not only the power line voltage but also the
power line frequency. This circuitry is tailored to the country in
which the equipment is distributed. Thus, simply matching the voltage
will not enable the equipment to be used in some other country that
uses a different power line frequency. Ironically, the equipment in
question is said to be basically very conservatively designed.
Therefore it would otherwise not be very important that the power line
frequency be carefully matched.

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots
and
a ground. That's balanced power, and much cheaper than expensive
center
tapped transformers giving 60-0-60. When my listening room was
refurbed
I had them put in air conditioner outlets which they did, although
they
didn't quite believe why I wanted them.

In the US 230 volt wiring is usually reserved for use with very high
powered amplifiers. 230 volt power outlets have special connectors. I
presume that you modified European equipment accordingly.

Why the Stereophile/TAS crowd isn't touting the benefits of the
common
air conditioner outlet...oh yeah, no high markup there.

Why would you be surprised that vendors who are already devoted to
increased profit margins, take additional steps to further increase
their profits.

lobster, long piglet, or what have you.
Cook on low for 15 minutes, then allow it to set for at least
15 minutes more.
Serve over steamed rice; this dish is very impressive!



Stuffed Cabbage Rolls

Babies really can be found under a cabbage leaf -
or one can arrange for ground beef to be found there instead.

8 large cabbage leaves
1 lb. lean ground newborn human filets, or ground chuck
Onions
peppers
celery
garlic
soy sauce
salt pepper, etc
Olive oil
breadcrumbs
Tomato Gravy (see index)

Boil the cabbage leaves for 2 minutes to soften.
In skillet, brown the meat in a little olive oil,
then add onions, peppers, and celery (all chopped finely)
and season well.
Place in a large bowl and cool.
Add seasoned breadcrumbs and a little of the tomato gravy,
enough to make the mixture pliable.
Divide the stuffing among the cabbage leaves then roll.
Place seam down in a baking pan.
Ladle tomato gravy on top,
and bake at 325° for 30 - 45 minutes.



Umbilical Cordon Bleu

Nothing is so beautiful as the bond between mother and child,
so why not consume it?
Children or chicken breasts will work wonderfully also.

4 whole umbilical chords (or baby breasts, or chicken breasts)
4 thin slices of smoked ham, and Gruyere cheese
Flour
eggwash (milk and eggs)
seasoned bread crumbs
1 onion
minced
salt
pepper
butter
olive oil

Pound the breasts flat (parboil first if using umbilical
cords so they won?t be tough).
Place a slice of ham and cheese on each, along with some mince

MINe 109 wrote:
In article .com,
snip
Because, as you point out, manufacturers don't offer 230v as an
option,
there's little reason to mention it.

Unless deleted as a customer control tactic the majority of normal
equipment has a split primary power transformer, making 230V balanced
operation easy as long as the mains switch breaks both hot side lines.

The NEC was actually amended six or seven years ago to enable
recording studios to put in 115V balanced power-60-0-60 secondaries off
a big balancing transformer. However most buildings in the US except
houses built in the thirties or earlier have balanced power already in
the form of the incoming hot lines off the "pole pig". Ranges and
electric dryers have a four wire plug (or are hardwired) with two hots,
one neutral and one earth ground. The common air conditioner outlet is
a three wire connectiion with two hots and earth ground but no neutral.
US electric dryers and ranges use both 110 and 220 for temperature
control purposes on their resistive elements and usually 110V on the
timers and often on the motors (so they have parts commonality with gas
dryers with 110 only available).

230V balanced power IMO is such a cost effective and simple upgrade
that it should be used as a magazine embarrassment tactic when dealing
with people who plug the magazines.

In article .com,
wrote:

230V balanced power IMO is such a cost effective and simple upgrade
that it should be used as a magazine embarrassment tactic when dealing
with people who plug the magazines.

Could a US store legally sell me a Euro-spec amp with an air-conditioner
cord?

Stephen

MINe 109 wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

230V balanced power IMO is such a cost effective and simple upgrade
that it should be used as a magazine embarrassment tactic when
dealing
with people who plug the magazines.

Could a US store legally sell me a Euro-spec amp with an
air-conditioner
cord?

If the unit is a multi-voltage unit with a jumper or switch it's just
a matter of move the switch. If the unit requires rewiring you could
just do it although the warranty may be affected. If it dies you could
always just put it back before sending it in. I know of no
manufacturers that really seal their units effectively (safetywire and
lead seal or cal tag) but some may.

What a store can _legally_ do depends on the state, I think, in the
US. But much high end equipment is not UL type certified anyway and I
don't think that's required.

I think it's much more a question of what the manufacturer will
tolerate of its dealers. Keep in mind that thanks to the insane
howling of medical and general aviation manufacturers product liability
has become a national obsession, and it's a fact that some very stupid
people buy some very expensive equipment. Also, they have started using
voltage and frequency as a customer control tactic, as has been
discussed here before. The overseas distributor believes it has a right
granted by whatever the local deity is to charge whatever its market
can be made to bear and only customer refusal to deal with them can
correct this-although in some cases they have the turgid member of the
state to make them profitable via fiat. The local Customs may bar
private import, or local type certifications may make it impossible to
resell non-authorized-sourced boxes.

Case in point would be the counter-example provided by a highly
inexpensive DVD player that I recently dissasembled and examined. It
did not use a multi-voltage transformer as such, but instead used a
relatively complex switchmode power supply that automatically adapted
itself to work with a wide variety of power line voltages and
frequencies. Only the detachable power cord needed to match the wall
outlets in whatever country it was used in. This part is routinely
available in various styles from a large number of third-party sources.

It's a way to further enable their Euro distributors to rear-end
their
native clientele, is what I have discovered.

It has been reported that at least one high end vendor has added
circuitry that monitors not only the power line voltage but also the
power line frequency. This circuitry is tailored to the country in
which the equipment is distributed. Thus, simply matching the voltage
will not enable the equipment to be used in some other country that
uses a different power line frequency. Ironically, the equipment in
question is said to be basically very conservatively designed.
Therefore it would otherwise not be very important that the power line
frequency be carefully matched.

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots
and
a ground. That's balanced power, and much cheaper than expensive
center
tapped transformers giving 60-0-60. When my listening room was
refurbed
I had them put in air conditioner outlets which they did, although
they
didn't quite believe why I wanted them.

In the US 230 volt wiring is usually reserved for use with very high
powered amplifiers. 230 volt power outlets have special connectors. I
presume that you modified European equipment accordingly.

In my case I just used the primary windings appropriately. My preamp
had a 120V only power xfmr but I have the 220 and 110 outlets next to
each other which has worked fine. I thought it might lead to higher
noise but it has worked out well. If the noise had been higher I would
have got a big toroidal autoformer and wired it up for 2:1 stepdown
symetrically, or got off my ass and put a 220 transformer in my preamp
which is homemade anyway (it's a Marantz 7 clone with attention paid to
Walt Jung's POOGE article in Audio Amateur.) I have never operated my
power amp on 120V long term so can provide no detailed A/B....but it
surely can't be worse. My CD player is a cheap one that does 120/240
automatically (switchmode supply) but I did put a jack in the back for
earth ground. It has a two pin 220 cord (now!) with no ground now which
is probably not UL acceptable. I would not do this if the equipment it
drives were not user repairable.

Why the Stereophile/TAS crowd isn't touting the benefits of the
common
air conditioner outlet...oh yeah, no high markup there.

Why would you be surprised that vendors who are already devoted to
increased profit margins, take additional steps to further increase
their profits.

I'm more disgusted customers are putting up with it.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots and
a ground.

I don't get it. Can someone explain how this can be used? I don't
understand how it's even an option with products meant to be plugged into
120v.

jeffc wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do
is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots
and
a ground.

I don't get it. Can someone explain how this can be used? I don't
understand how it's even an option with products meant to be plugged
into
120v.


Okay, let's start at the start and take it in baby steps.

The standard household socket in the US, from the early 1900s on,
gave 110-12x volts AC, 60 Hertz. There were two prongs on the plug, and
two wires from the fuse box. They were off the secondary of the
transformer that was on the power pole. One of those was hooked to
earth ground and was called "neutral" because it was at or close to
ground potential. The other was called "hot" because it was the wire
that would shock you if you touched it while grounded.

In Europe they used the same arrangement except at roughly twice that
voltage. One line is hot and one is neutral, or in Brit parlance
"earthy".

Then they all added a ground wire, a direct earth ground that didn't
go to the fuse box, for safety. That was the three prong plug. You
could grab two of the three and feel nothing, or in the case of the
neutral maybe a slight tingle. The third would zap, maybe even kill,
you. With me so far??

In the US, we started using stuff like electric central heat, window
air conditioners, clothes dryers, and ranges and the power companies
figured they could use a center tapped earthed primary on the
transformer on the pole-the "pole pig"-and bring in two hot wires.
Either one to neutral, or ground, would give you the standard voltage
and the two together would give you twice the voltage. That's why there
are window air conditioners for "220" and "110". Inside the house,
half the "110" outlets are off one hot wire and the others are off the
other one. You could find two outlets in the same room and if they were
off different hot wires, run a wire off each one and get 220.


If we are not on the same page now, STOP. Get a copy of a good
ELECTRICAL book and "do the math".
It really isn't that hard to understand. Fat smelly guys with GED's and
their ass hanging half out their pants do this every day.

Okay, as you (hopefully) surmised, there are a whole range of plugs
and sockets used in the U.S., not even getting into overseas, domestic
three phase, or DC (at one time there were residences with DC power in
the US-they sold DC stuff in New York well into the rock and roll era
because upscale apartments sometimes didn't convert until the mid
1960's!). The "220 air conditioner plug" has two hots and earth ground.
Range and Dryer plugs have four prongs-both hots, neutral, and ground.


Now, back to the amplifier (or whatever). Again historically, it had a
power transformer, which took in the line (or "mains" in Britese)
voltage and provided the varied voltages the unit needed. If the unit
was to be used on power lines of different voltages, you had to have a
different transformer.

In the 1950s, when cars had tailfins and actresses had figures, they
realized that if they wound the primary properly and brought out the
leads, they could use the winding in parallel for 110 and in series for
220, which was the voltage in other countries. (Actually there were a
bunch of voltages, so they had taps and separate windings, but one
group of voltages was in the 100-130 range and the other from 220-240
or so.) That meant users could go from country to country and use any
voltage, sometimes by flipping a switch, sometimes moving a jumper,
occasionally you'd have to resolder the wires inside which was no big
deal.

For the last forty or so years, most every piece of electronic
equipment designed to be interfaced with other electronics has had such
a power supply. So when it was discovered that running power with two
hot lines equally spaced from ground-balanced power- had big advantages
from noise and EMI standpoints, American users were in good shape-they
already had balanced power at their fuse box and a power supply that
could use it.

Only no one told them this. Pro studios put in expensive
redistribution transformers ("power baluns") to give 60-0-60 power,
maybe because their expensive Fairchild compressors and Pultec EQ boxes
had 110-only transformers. Maybe they just didn't think about it.
Nonetheless balanced power was a big noise control step.

If your hi-fi amp has a linear power supply designed for multivoltage
use, you ought to be able to run off the 220V "air conditioner outlet".
And usually you can. However, in order to enable overseas distributors
to have unnatural and probably painful relations with their captive
customer base, certain High End manufacturers have went back to single
voltage power supplies, either a power transformer with one primary
winding or a switchmode supply suitable for one voltage.

If a salesman tries to sell you a line cable for more than a few
dollars, especially if it has the standard IEC connector, on the basis
of improved sound and does not discuss the benefits of Balanced Power
Operation, it's a good bet he's a whore for commissions. If a house is
wired from pole pig to fuse box to power outlet with regular old wire,
how is a relatively short length of high dollar wire going to make a
difference?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Okay, let's start at the start and take it in baby steps.

Thank you for the explanation...

Inside the house,
half the "110" outlets are off one hot wire and the others are off the
other one. You could find two outlets in the same room and if they were
off different hot wires, run a wire off each one and get 220.

But they have to intentionally run both hot leads to any outlet that needs
220?

For the last forty or so years, most every piece of electronic
equipment designed to be interfaced with other electronics has had such
a power supply.

I didn't know that.

So when it was discovered that running power with two
hot lines equally spaced from ground-balanced power- had big advantages
from noise and EMI standpoints

I didn't know that either.

If your hi-fi amp has a linear power supply designed for multivoltage
use, you ought to be able to run off the 220V "air conditioner outlet".

So you are suggesting we do, either by switching the switch, or by opening
the box if necessary?

If a house is
wired from pole pig to fuse box to power outlet with regular old wire,
how is a relatively short length of high dollar wire going to make a
difference?

I've never really believed it could.

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message
...

Agreed. I learned about dedicated outlets by reading Stereophile. JA and
J-10
have always been huge proponents of them. I've put in two of them, and
there's
a huge improvement. The first one cost me $350, because I had it done by
a
professional. The second one was installed by a friend and myself, and we
did
it for less than $50, and that included the hospital-grade outlet.

Best $50 I ever spent on audio.

What was the difference exactly?

jeffc said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message
...

Agreed. I learned about dedicated outlets by reading Stereophile. JA and
J-10
have always been huge proponents of them. I've put in two of them, and
there's
a huge improvement. The first one cost me $350, because I had it done by
a
professional. The second one was installed by a friend and myself, and we
did
it for less than $50, and that included the hospital-grade outlet.

Best $50 I ever spent on audio.

What was the difference exactly?

Two big differences, really. First, everything was much quieter. I could turn
the volume way up on the amp and here much less noise. Secondly, I had the
problem of my stereo sounding better during certain times of the day than
others (in other words, peak usage hours). A dedicated outlet greatly reduced
these inconsistencies.

Boon

Is it OK to mix and match the voltages on your equipment, or is the benefit
realized when all links in the chain are 220v?

"jeffc" wrote in message
news

wrote in message
oups.com...

Being a DIYer by nature this doesnt bother me, but what it does do is
make it harder to run your stuff on 230V US power, meaning two hots and
a ground.

I don't get it. Can someone explain how this can be used? I don't
understand how it's even an option with products meant to be plugged into
120v.

Of course, I am aware of the 120/240 v switch on many electronic units. I
didn't realize what you were talking about might be that simple in some
cases.

wrote:

Why would you be surprised that vendors who are already devoted to
increased profit margins, take additional steps to further increase
their profits.

I'm more disgusted customers are putting up with it.

It's my impression that paying a high price is just a part of the high
end experience that high end afficianados prize. This sort of thinking
shows up in the perrenial posts along the line of "Best $3,000 Power
Amp". The high price of the power amp is the parameter that is
obviously most important to the person making the post.

So why don't you manufacture some stupendously expensive **** and make
money? Seems like something to celebrate, to me.

On 30 Dec 2004 14:47:55 -0800, wrote:

So why don't you manufacture some stupendously expensive **** and make
money? Seems like something to celebrate, to me.

Actually, the field is quite crowded. Breaking in won't be easy.

You may be integrested in a recent Stereophile review of a $350,000
powert amp. Performance and specs were mediocre to poor. Had it
cost, say, $1000, it would have been pooh poohed by the venerable
reviewer. Since it cost a seriously obscene (not to say, ridiculous)
amount of money, the reviewer went out of his way to justify the
price...

I read Stereophile for amusement and this was one of their best
efforts, right next to their review of the Hacro $25,000 (or was it
$24,000?) amp whose silence (so they claimed) was better than the
silence of other, less expensive amps..

-- Ron

From: "Arny Krueger"
Date: 12/29/2004 2:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . com


wrote:

Why would you be surprised that vendors who are already devoted to
increased profit margins, take additional steps to further increase
their profits.

I'm more disgusted customers are putting up with it.

It's my impression that paying a high price is just a part of the high
end experience that high end afficianados prize.

That's a pretty odd impression. Can you cite anyone buying something in audio
simply because it cost more and not because the buyer thought it would offer
better performance or some sort of legitimate added value such as reliability
or better ergonomics?

This sort of thinking
shows up in the perrenial posts along the line of "Best $3,000 Power
Amp".


This would appear to be a failure of your logic. One would assume that the
interest in such a post would be indicative of someone wanting to get the most
for his or her money, namely his or her three thousand bucks in this example.


The high price of the power amp is the parameter that is
obviously most important to the person making the post.


It looks more like the limit of said poster's budget. The important thing
appears to be the *best* for that price. Normally lower priced items are
included in such inquiries.

S888Wheel wrote:
From: Ron
Date: 12/30/2004 6:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 30 Dec 2004 14:47:55 -0800, wrote:

So why don't you manufacture some stupendously expensive **** and
make
money? Seems like something to celebrate, to me.

Actually, the field is quite crowded. Breaking in won't be easy.

You may be integrested in a recent Stereophile review of a $350,000
powert amp. Performance and specs were mediocre to poor. Had it
cost, say, $1000, it would have been pooh poohed by the venerable
reviewer.

Did he tell you this or did you read his mind?

To most of us it's obvious that the OP was speculating. Sorry that this
shading of meaning flew over your head, Scott.

Since it cost a seriously obscene (not to say, ridiculous)
amount of money, the reviewer went out of his way to justify the
price...

Or maybe he liked the sound.

Sighted evaluation, right? ;-)

I read Stereophile for amusement and this was one of their best
efforts, right next to their review of the Hacro $25,000 (or was it
$24,000?) amp whose silence (so they claimed) was better than the
silence of other, less expensive amps..

All this talk about prices of amps and yet you waste your money on a
magazine
you don't like.

Somehow most of us perceive a tiny difference between Stereophile's
$12.97 subscription price and the $25,000 price of a pair of Halcro
monoblocks.

Apparently $24,987.03 means nothing to an award-winning Hollywood
makeup artist. Well then good for you, Scott! It explains why you were
so willing to waste your money on sueing me for libel, I guess.

Arny Krueger wrote:
S888Wheel wrote:
From: Ron
Date: 12/30/2004 6:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 30 Dec 2004 14:47:55 -0800, wrote:

So why don't you manufacture some stupendously expensive **** and
make
money? Seems like something to celebrate, to me.

Actually, the field is quite crowded. Breaking in won't be easy.

You may be integrested in a recent Stereophile review of a
$350,000
powert amp. Performance and specs were mediocre to poor. Had it
cost, say, $1000, it would have been pooh poohed by the venerable
reviewer.

Did he tell you this or did you read his mind?

To most of us it's obvious that the OP was speculating. Sorry that
this
shading of meaning flew over your head, Scott.

Obviously he was speculating. He stated it as fact though. I guess my
sarcasm towards his attitude went right over your head. Every time you
try to look smart you end up looking stupid.



Since it cost a seriously obscene (not to say, ridiculous)
amount of money, the reviewer went out of his way to justify the
price...

Or maybe he liked the sound.

Sighted evaluation, right? ;-)

Yeah. So? Didn't you evaluate your speakers that way?



I read Stereophile for amusement and this was one of their best
efforts, right next to their review of the Hacro $25,000 (or was
it
$24,000?) amp whose silence (so they claimed) was better than the
silence of other, less expensive amps..

All this talk about prices of amps and yet you waste your money on
a
magazine
you don't like.

Somehow most of us perceive a tiny difference between Stereophile's
$12.97 subscription price and the $25,000 price of a pair of Halcro
monoblocks.

Does that mean 12.97 spent on something one doesn't like isn't a waste
of money? Once again your attempt to make a logical argument leaves you
looking foolish.



Apparently $24,987.03 means nothing to an award-winning Hollywood
makeup artist. Well then good for you, Scott!

No, it means something even to this award winning makeup artist.
Probably not as much as it does to a loser living his life on Usenet
(that would be you if you didn't get it) but it still is a meaningful
amount of money to me.

It explains why you were
so willing to waste your money on sueing me for libel, I guess.

It didn't seem like a waste of money until I fully realized just how
small an impact your words have on the world. Then it was clear to me
that it was a waste of money. Funny that you would take so much pride
in being so unimportant.


Scott Wheeler