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  #11  
Old June 24th 09, 07:59 PM posted to rec.audio.car
MOSFET
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 810
Default Oh man I'm borred.......

Altho I'm kinda curious about those L7 square kicker subs, I
> knew a guy with a single 10 in the hatch of his camaro, that sounded
> better than any 10 I ever heard. I'd prolly go so far as to say better
> than any 2x10 setup I ever heard. Even if it lost a little spl over
> my 2x12's, if it went lower I might be interested, but it's not really
> worth the $$ for me to try it and find out..


I have always been impressed with Kicker's Sqaure subs, in particular the L7
series. When they first came out I TRULY thought it was a gimmick to draw
attention OR a way for SPL competitors to squeeze more cone area into a
givem size baffle (obviously, square subs would fit together better that
round subs leaving less unused baffle area).

HOWEVER, I remember exactly where I was (you know, one of those seminal
moments where you always remember where you are and what you were doing) the
first time I heard one, I was at Car Audio City on Aurora Ave. in Seattle (I
think I have the name right) in 1999 or 2000. They had a single L7 12" in a
ported box and I was absolutely spellbound by the incredible amount of bass
this thing could produce, it was like a pair of 15"'s (in fact, I remember
asking the staff if there was another subwoofer or multiple subs also
playing, the answer was obviously no)!!!! I probably stayed there for
several hours just listening to this incredible subwoofer, trying to wrap my
head around the fact that so much bass was coming out of a single 12". Like
you said, everytime I've heard ONE, it's like hearing TWO. Naturally I
wanted one, but the price was high and realisticaly I could achhieve the
same level of bass at a lower cost with two or more lesser subs as opposed
to a single L7. Of course the ultimate in my mind was a pair of 12" L7's,
the problem with that, however, is that I certainly did not have the power
to drive them adequately, which would require more than a powerful amp, but
a complete upgarade of my electrical system starting with a large HO
alternator. Too much money. But for someone who does not want to use too
much space for a sub box like in a very small car, they cannot be beat.

Anyway, those are incredible subs. I don't know if all the marketing BS
about the square shape is what makes them so incredible, but they certainly
deliver the goods, BIG TIME.

MOSFET



Ads
  #12  
Old June 29th 09, 09:21 AM posted to rec.audio.car
Captain Howdy[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Oh man I'm borred.......

Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been coming
here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine speakers a
while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?

I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that has
been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face from
his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by. But I
think you already know that story.


In article > , "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to start
>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>thread.
>
>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car system
>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several hours in
>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The Infinity
>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven by
>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have the
>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's music I
>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am NOT
>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY pleased
>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car audio. I
>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that judging
>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I know
>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>
>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>
>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>subwoofers?'.
>
>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD and
>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept upgrading my
>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system because
>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate 12"
>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought I
>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back speakers
>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an Alpine
>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The next
>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when Denon
>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model number
>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were overrated as
>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No wonder
>Denon went out of business.
>
>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality 6.5"
>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>
>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events in
>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new Nissan
>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed the
>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful engine
>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige leather,
>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>
>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this beautiful
>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several thousand
>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into the
>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that had
>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality, features,
>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all the
>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has ever
>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob, you
>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a
>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob, that's
>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down with
>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end in
>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of their
>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston Accoustics
>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with grills
>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however with
>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the trunk
>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and elevated
>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought it
>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood trim
>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out (never
>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the double
>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit was
>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band EQ
>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very popular
>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5 farad
>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool thing
>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and blue
>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was in
>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull configuration
>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE those
>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans). I
>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today), and
>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car so
>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather than
>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the subwoofer/amp
>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>speaker wire throughout.
>
>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in their
>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously in
>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat arm-rest
>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There was
>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally damage
>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them and
>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>
>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia Hi-Fi
>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won that
>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored the
>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA circuit
>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS placed
>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe (which
>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as I
>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I had
>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I want to
>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the car
>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS like
>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass and
>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to know I
>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>systems.
>
>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how I
>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly 15
>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk was
>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just couldn't
>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass is
>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack drawer
>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would tell
>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was a
>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth and
>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install job
>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for only
>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50 hours,
>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>
>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself in,
>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the subwoofer
>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get it
>out of the car).
>
>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my installer,
>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and should
>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him have
>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I always
>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive sub
>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now wonder
>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1" MDF if
>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as he
>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he used
>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>
>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well. But in
>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class D I
>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none other
>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said, it;s
>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>
>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone has
>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me (41), in
>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT was
>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus the
>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered "high-end"
>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know any
>better.
>
>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>
>MOSFET
>
>

  #13  
Old July 11th 09, 11:23 AM posted to rec.audio.car
MOSFET
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 810
Default Oh man I'm borred.......

Really don't know what your talking about.

Yes, I've had many different tweeters, that is true. And yes, the Alpine's
were EXCEPTIONAL and I may try using them again in the future. The same is
true of my old JL VR series tweets, EXCELLENT. But I am very happy with my
Kappa series CMMD Infinity tweets at the moment; I enjoy trying different
tweets as I have yet to find sonic perfection, perhaps I never will. Alpine
has clearly improved it's speakers DRAMATICALLY in the last 10 years (and I
mean ALL types of speakers they produce). They single-handedly HAVE changed
my opinion of Japaneese speakers.

I'm not going to get "into it" with you, but may I remind you that you spent
COUNTLESS posts extolly the virtues of 6x9's and that they were the
end-all-be-all of car audio sound quality. So I would take caution in your
insults as your car audio knowledge from that ONE flame-war alone
demonstrates a woefully lacking knowledge of car audio, or at least
knowledge of what "good" sound reproduction is.

I am now blocking all your posts so don't bother responding. Take care,
sweetie.

MOSFET

"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
> coming
> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine speakers
> a
> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>
> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
> has
> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
> from
> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by. But
> I
> think you already know that story.
>
>
> In article > , "MOSFET"
> > wrote:
>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>start
>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>thread.
>>
>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>system
>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several hours
>>in
>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The Infinity
>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>by
>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have the
>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's music
>>I
>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>NOT
>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>pleased
>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car audio.
>>I
>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>judging
>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>know
>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>
>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>
>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>subwoofers?'.
>>
>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>and
>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept upgrading
>>my
>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>because
>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate 12"
>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought I
>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>speakers
>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>Alpine
>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The next
>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when Denon
>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>number
>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were overrated
>>as
>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No wonder
>>Denon went out of business.
>>
>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>6.5"
>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>
>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events in
>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new Nissan
>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed the
>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful engine
>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige leather,
>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>
>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this beautiful
>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>thousand
>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into the
>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>had
>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality, features,
>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>the
>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>ever
>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>you
>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to be
>>a
>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob, that's
>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>with
>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end in
>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>their
>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>Accoustics
>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>grills
>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however with
>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the trunk
>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>elevated
>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>it
>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>trim
>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>(never
>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the double
>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>was
>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>EQ
>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>popular
>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5 farad
>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool thing
>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>blue
>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was in
>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>configuration
>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>those
>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>I
>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>and
>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>so
>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>than
>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the subwoofer/amp
>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>speaker wire throughout.
>>
>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in their
>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously in
>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>arm-rest
>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>was
>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>damage
>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them and
>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>
>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia Hi-Fi
>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won that
>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>the
>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>circuit
>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS placed
>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>(which
>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as I
>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>had
>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I want
>>to
>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>car
>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>like
>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass and
>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to know
>>I
>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>systems.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how I
>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly 15
>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk was
>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>couldn't
>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass is
>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack drawer
>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>tell
>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was a
>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>and
>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>job
>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for only
>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>hours,
>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>
>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself in,
>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the subwoofer
>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>it
>>out of the car).
>>
>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my installer,
>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and should
>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>have
>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>always
>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>sub
>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>wonder
>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1" MDF
>>if
>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>he
>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>used
>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>
>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well. But
>>in
>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class D
>>I
>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>other
>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>it;s
>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>
>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone has
>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me (41),
>>in
>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT was
>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>the
>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered "high-end"
>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know any
>>better.
>>
>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>
>>MOSFET
>>
>>



  #14  
Old July 13th 09, 01:22 AM posted to rec.audio.car
MOSFET
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 810
Default Oh man I'm borred.......

And I just can't help add one more thing. What the hell is it with me that
bugs you so much? Why did you try and sell my car on an on-line car sales
site, a nasty trick I reported to your IP which might have explained your
mysterious three month absense from this group. What have I done to you?

I try to be polite and helpful to all. I am NOT an EE and I would certainly
not claim to know everything in the world about car audio. And I certainly
may make a mistake now and then, and I have absolutely no problem copping to
my mistakes.

But here's the thing, I HAVE been involved with car audio for over 20 years
now. That is absolutely, positively true as my wife would more than attest.
I HAVE worked for Phoenix Gold in their marketing department as I have an
MBA from the University of Portland, class of '95. All of these facts can
be checked out and verified, my name is Nicholas Victor Tanner. Phoenix
Gold would be happy to tell you I have worked for them and the University of
Portland Business School would certainly be more than happy to verify for
you that I got my MBA in 1995, hell, I'll Email you a photo of my degree.
They would also tell you I taught a Consumer Behavior class to both
graduates and undergrads as an adjunct proffessor, and NO, I don't mean I
was a TA, I designed the curriculm, had an office, office hours, the works
(I did this in the evenings and was paid quite well, I mean it's a private
Catholic school), the students called me Dr. Tanner which was technically
incorrect as I don't have a PhD, but YOU KNOW I didn't correct them as I
liked the sound of it. What education do you have, just out of
curiosity (I want to know the education level of your average troll).

I competed in IASCA events for years and have installed DOZENS of systems
for friends, family and myself.

Again, do I know it all? Of course not. But do I know a hell of a lot
about car audio? I think I can honestly say, yes, I do. Certainly enough
to help 90% of the questions that come this way.

So again, I don't know where all the annimous (do you know what that word
means?) comes from. I REALLY don't.

But you're blocked so I won't hear any response and frankly, I really don't
care.

MOSFET

"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
> coming
> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine speakers
> a
> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>
> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
> has
> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
> from
> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by. But
> I
> think you already know that story.
>
>
> In article > , "MOSFET"
> > wrote:
>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>start
>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>thread.
>>
>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>system
>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several hours
>>in
>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The Infinity
>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>by
>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have the
>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's music
>>I
>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>NOT
>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>pleased
>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car audio.
>>I
>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>judging
>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>know
>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>
>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>
>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>subwoofers?'.
>>
>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>and
>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept upgrading
>>my
>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>because
>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate 12"
>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought I
>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>speakers
>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>Alpine
>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The next
>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when Denon
>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>number
>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were overrated
>>as
>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No wonder
>>Denon went out of business.
>>
>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>6.5"
>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>
>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events in
>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new Nissan
>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed the
>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful engine
>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige leather,
>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>
>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this beautiful
>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>thousand
>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into the
>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>had
>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality, features,
>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>the
>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>ever
>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>you
>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to be
>>a
>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob, that's
>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>with
>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end in
>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>their
>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>Accoustics
>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>grills
>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however with
>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the trunk
>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>elevated
>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>it
>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>trim
>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>(never
>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the double
>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>was
>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>EQ
>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>popular
>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5 farad
>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool thing
>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>blue
>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was in
>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>configuration
>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>those
>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>I
>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>and
>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>so
>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>than
>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the subwoofer/amp
>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>speaker wire throughout.
>>
>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in their
>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously in
>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>arm-rest
>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>was
>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>damage
>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them and
>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>
>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia Hi-Fi
>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won that
>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>the
>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>circuit
>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS placed
>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>(which
>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as I
>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>had
>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I want
>>to
>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>car
>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>like
>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass and
>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to know
>>I
>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>systems.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how I
>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly 15
>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk was
>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>couldn't
>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass is
>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack drawer
>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>tell
>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was a
>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>and
>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>job
>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for only
>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>hours,
>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>
>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself in,
>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the subwoofer
>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>it
>>out of the car).
>>
>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my installer,
>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and should
>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>have
>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>always
>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>sub
>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>wonder
>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1" MDF
>>if
>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>he
>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>used
>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>
>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well. But
>>in
>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class D
>>I
>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>other
>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>it;s
>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>
>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone has
>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me (41),
>>in
>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT was
>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>the
>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered "high-end"
>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know any
>>better.
>>
>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>
>>MOSFET
>>
>>



  #15  
Old July 31st 09, 02:10 PM posted to rec.audio.car
Captain Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Oh man I'm borred.......


See I told ya that you're a ****brick. You're the biggest **** tart on rac in
many years. Over the years your advice has changed more then the weather. I
don't know who tried to sell your car, must of been one of your fans or
someone you ripped off on Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/ysz5gv




In article > , "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>And I just can't help add one more thing. What the hell is it with me that
>bugs you so much? Why did you try and sell my car on an on-line car sales
>site, a nasty trick I reported to your IP which might have explained your
>mysterious three month absense from this group. What have I done to you?
>
>I try to be polite and helpful to all. I am NOT an EE and I would certainly
>not claim to know everything in the world about car audio. And I certainly
>may make a mistake now and then, and I have absolutely no problem copping to
>my mistakes.
>
>But here's the thing, I HAVE been involved with car audio for over 20 years
>now. That is absolutely, positively true as my wife would more than attest.
>I HAVE worked for Phoenix Gold in their marketing department as I have an
>MBA from the University of Portland, class of '95. All of these facts can
>be checked out and verified, my name is Nicholas Victor Tanner. Phoenix
>Gold would be happy to tell you I have worked for them and the University of
>Portland Business School would certainly be more than happy to verify for
>you that I got my MBA in 1995, hell, I'll Email you a photo of my degree.
>They would also tell you I taught a Consumer Behavior class to both
>graduates and undergrads as an adjunct proffessor, and NO, I don't mean I
>was a TA, I designed the curriculm, had an office, office hours, the works
>(I did this in the evenings and was paid quite well, I mean it's a private
>Catholic school), the students called me Dr. Tanner which was technically
>incorrect as I don't have a PhD, but YOU KNOW I didn't correct them as I
>liked the sound of it. What education do you have, just out of
>curiosity (I want to know the education level of your average troll).
>
>I competed in IASCA events for years and have installed DOZENS of systems
>for friends, family and myself.
>
>Again, do I know it all? Of course not. But do I know a hell of a lot
>about car audio? I think I can honestly say, yes, I do. Certainly enough
>to help 90% of the questions that come this way.
>
>So again, I don't know where all the annimous (do you know what that word
>means?) comes from. I REALLY don't.
>
>But you're blocked so I won't hear any response and frankly, I really don't
>care.
>
>MOSFET
>
>"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
>> coming
>> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine speakers
>> a
>> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>>
>> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
>> has
>> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
>> from
>> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by. But
>> I
>> think you already know that story.
>>
>>
>> In article > , "MOSFET"
>> > wrote:
>>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>>start
>>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>>thread.
>>>
>>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>>system
>>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several hours
>>>in
>>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The Infinity
>>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>>by
>>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have the
>>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's music
>>>I
>>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>>NOT
>>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>>pleased
>>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car audio.
>>>I
>>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>>judging
>>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>>know
>>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>>
>>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>>
>>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>>subwoofers?'.
>>>
>>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>>and
>>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept upgrading
>>>my
>>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>>because
>>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate 12"
>>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought I
>>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>>speakers
>>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>>Alpine
>>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The next
>>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when Denon
>>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>>number
>>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were overrated
>>>as
>>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No wonder
>>>Denon went out of business.
>>>
>>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>>6.5"
>>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>>
>>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events in
>>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new Nissan
>>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed the
>>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful engine
>>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige leather,
>>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>>
>>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this beautiful
>>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>>thousand
>>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into the
>>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>>had
>>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality, features,
>>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>>the
>>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>>ever
>>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>>you
>>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to be
>>>a
>>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob, that's
>>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>>with
>>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end in
>>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>>their
>>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>>Accoustics
>>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>>grills
>>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however with
>>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the trunk
>>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>>elevated
>>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>>it
>>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>>trim
>>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>>(never
>>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the double
>>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>>was
>>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>>EQ
>>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>>popular
>>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5 farad
>>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool thing
>>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>>blue
>>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was in
>>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>>configuration
>>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>>those
>>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>>I
>>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>>and
>>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>>so
>>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>>than
>>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the subwoofer/amp
>>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>>speaker wire throughout.
>>>
>>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in their
>>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously in
>>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>>arm-rest
>>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>>was
>>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>>damage
>>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them and
>>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>>
>>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia Hi-Fi
>>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won that
>>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>>the
>>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>>circuit
>>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS placed
>>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>>(which
>>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as I
>>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>>had
>>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I want
>>>to
>>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>>car
>>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>>like
>>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass and
>>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to know
>>>I
>>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>>systems.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how I
>>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly 15
>>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk was
>>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>>couldn't
>>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass is
>>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack drawer
>>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>>tell
>>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was a
>>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>>and
>>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>>job
>>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for only
>>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>>hours,
>>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>>
>>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself in,
>>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the subwoofer
>>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>>it
>>>out of the car).
>>>
>>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my installer,
>>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and should
>>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>>have
>>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>>always
>>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>>sub
>>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>>wonder
>>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1" MDF
>>>if
>>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>>he
>>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>>used
>>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>>
>>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well. But
>>>in
>>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class D
>>>I
>>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>>other
>>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>>it;s
>>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>>
>>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone has
>>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me (41),
>>>in
>>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT was
>>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>>the
>>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered "high-end"
>>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know any
>>>better.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>>
>>>MOSFET
>>>
>>>

>
>

  #16  
Old July 31st 09, 02:13 PM posted to rec.audio.car
Captain Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Oh man I'm borred.......

You know what I'm talking about. I know that you don't want to get "into it"
with me.

In article >, "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>Really don't know what your talking about.
>
>Yes, I've had many different tweeters, that is true. And yes, the Alpine's
>were EXCEPTIONAL and I may try using them again in the future. The same is
>true of my old JL VR series tweets, EXCELLENT. But I am very happy with my
>Kappa series CMMD Infinity tweets at the moment; I enjoy trying different
>tweets as I have yet to find sonic perfection, perhaps I never will. Alpine
>has clearly improved it's speakers DRAMATICALLY in the last 10 years (and I
>mean ALL types of speakers they produce). They single-handedly HAVE changed
>my opinion of Japaneese speakers.
>
>I'm not going to get "into it" with you, but may I remind you that you spent
>COUNTLESS posts extolly the virtues of 6x9's and that they were the
>end-all-be-all of car audio sound quality. So I would take caution in your
>insults as your car audio knowledge from that ONE flame-war alone
>demonstrates a woefully lacking knowledge of car audio, or at least
>knowledge of what "good" sound reproduction is.
>
>I am now blocking all your posts so don't bother responding. Take care,
>sweetie.
>
>MOSFET
>
>"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
>> coming
>> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine speakers
>> a
>> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>>
>> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
>> has
>> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
>> from
>> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by. But
>> I
>> think you already know that story.
>>
>>
>> In article > , "MOSFET"
>> > wrote:
>>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>>start
>>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>>thread.
>>>
>>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>>system
>>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several hours
>>>in
>>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The Infinity
>>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>>by
>>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have the
>>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's music
>>>I
>>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>>NOT
>>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>>pleased
>>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car audio.
>>>I
>>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>>judging
>>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>>know
>>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>>
>>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>>
>>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>>subwoofers?'.
>>>
>>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>>and
>>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept upgrading
>>>my
>>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>>because
>>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate 12"
>>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought I
>>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>>speakers
>>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>>Alpine
>>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The next
>>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when Denon
>>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>>number
>>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were overrated
>>>as
>>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No wonder
>>>Denon went out of business.
>>>
>>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>>6.5"
>>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>>
>>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events in
>>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new Nissan
>>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed the
>>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful engine
>>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige leather,
>>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>>
>>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this beautiful
>>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>>thousand
>>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into the
>>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>>had
>>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality, features,
>>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>>the
>>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>>ever
>>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>>you
>>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to be
>>>a
>>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob, that's
>>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>>with
>>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end in
>>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>>their
>>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>>Accoustics
>>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>>grills
>>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however with
>>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the trunk
>>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>>elevated
>>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>>it
>>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>>trim
>>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>>(never
>>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the double
>>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>>was
>>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>>EQ
>>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>>popular
>>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5 farad
>>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool thing
>>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>>blue
>>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was in
>>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>>configuration
>>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>>those
>>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>>I
>>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>>and
>>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>>so
>>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>>than
>>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the subwoofer/amp
>>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>>speaker wire throughout.
>>>
>>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in their
>>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously in
>>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>>arm-rest
>>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>>was
>>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>>damage
>>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them and
>>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>>
>>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia Hi-Fi
>>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won that
>>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>>the
>>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>>circuit
>>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS placed
>>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>>(which
>>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as I
>>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>>had
>>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I want
>>>to
>>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>>car
>>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>>like
>>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass and
>>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to know
>>>I
>>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>>systems.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how I
>>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly 15
>>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk was
>>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>>couldn't
>>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass is
>>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack drawer
>>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>>tell
>>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was a
>>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>>and
>>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>>job
>>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for only
>>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>>hours,
>>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>>
>>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself in,
>>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the subwoofer
>>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>>it
>>>out of the car).
>>>
>>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my installer,
>>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and should
>>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>>have
>>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>>always
>>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>>sub
>>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>>wonder
>>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1" MDF
>>>if
>>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>>he
>>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>>used
>>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>>
>>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well. But
>>>in
>>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class D
>>>I
>>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>>other
>>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>>it;s
>>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>>
>>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone has
>>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me (41),
>>>in
>>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT was
>>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>>the
>>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered "high-end"
>>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know any
>>>better.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>>
>>>MOSFET
>>>
>>>

>
>

  #17  
Old August 2nd 09, 06:50 PM posted to rec.audio.car
MOSFET
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 810
Default Howdy, you CHANGED your Email address...NUTJOB, PSYCHO!

Here's yet another example of your very weird obsession with me. And
EVERYONE can see this for themselves to prove my point. I had you blocked
but you CHANGED YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS JUST SO I WOULD SEE WHAT YOU POSTED.

Your address WAS and I blocked you and now your address
is
.

I have blocked that one as well but I'l bet you'll CHANGE IT AGAIN.

If this doesn't prove you're like some crazy stalker I don't know what does.
OBVIOUSLY anyone who would go through this much trouble would certainly pull
a stunt like try and sell my car online, I mean duh. And BTW, you can change
your Email address as many times as you like you psycho nut-job, I'm NOT
going to read anything of yours and just add your new addresses to my
blocked list.

CRAZY! CUCKOO!!! STALKER!!! NUTJOB!!!

But hell, go ahead and just keep trying things. I'm curious to what lengths
a crazy, obsessed Internet stalker will go to try to dis me or make my life
miserable or whatever your crazy, ****ed up mind thinks you are doing to me.

The REAL answer is nothing, except mild amusement and subtle bewilderment.

But changing your Email speaks VOLUMES about your psychotic nature.

MOSFET

"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>
> See I told ya that you're a ****brick. You're the biggest **** tart on rac
> in
> many years. Over the years your advice has changed more then the weather.
> I
> don't know who tried to sell your car, must of been one of your fans or
> someone you ripped off on Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/ysz5gv
>
>
>
>
> In article > , "MOSFET"
> > wrote:
>>And I just can't help add one more thing. What the hell is it with me
>>that
>>bugs you so much? Why did you try and sell my car on an on-line car sales
>>site, a nasty trick I reported to your IP which might have explained your
>>mysterious three month absense from this group. What have I done to you?
>>
>>I try to be polite and helpful to all. I am NOT an EE and I would
>>certainly
>>not claim to know everything in the world about car audio. And I
>>certainly
>>may make a mistake now and then, and I have absolutely no problem copping
>>to
>>my mistakes.
>>
>>But here's the thing, I HAVE been involved with car audio for over 20
>>years
>>now. That is absolutely, positively true as my wife would more than
>>attest.
>>I HAVE worked for Phoenix Gold in their marketing department as I have an
>>MBA from the University of Portland, class of '95. All of these facts can
>>be checked out and verified, my name is Nicholas Victor Tanner. Phoenix
>>Gold would be happy to tell you I have worked for them and the University
>>of
>>Portland Business School would certainly be more than happy to verify for
>>you that I got my MBA in 1995, hell, I'll Email you a photo of my degree.
>>They would also tell you I taught a Consumer Behavior class to both
>>graduates and undergrads as an adjunct proffessor, and NO, I don't mean I
>>was a TA, I designed the curriculm, had an office, office hours, the works
>>(I did this in the evenings and was paid quite well, I mean it's a private
>>Catholic school), the students called me Dr. Tanner which was technically
>>incorrect as I don't have a PhD, but YOU KNOW I didn't correct them as I
>>liked the sound of it. What education do you have, just out of
>>curiosity (I want to know the education level of your average troll).
>>
>>I competed in IASCA events for years and have installed DOZENS of systems
>>for friends, family and myself.
>>
>>Again, do I know it all? Of course not. But do I know a hell of a lot
>>about car audio? I think I can honestly say, yes, I do. Certainly enough
>>to help 90% of the questions that come this way.
>>
>>So again, I don't know where all the annimous (do you know what that word
>>means?) comes from. I REALLY don't.
>>
>>But you're blocked so I won't hear any response and frankly, I really
>>don't
>>care.
>>
>>MOSFET
>>
>>"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>>> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
>>> coming
>>> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine
>>> speakers
>>> a
>>> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>>>
>>> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
>>> has
>>> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
>>> from
>>> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by.
>>> But
>>> I
>>> think you already know that story.
>>>
>>>
>>> In article > , "MOSFET"
>>> > wrote:
>>>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>>>start
>>>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>>>thread.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>>>system
>>>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several
>>>>hours
>>>>in
>>>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The
>>>>Infinity
>>>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>>>by
>>>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have
>>>>the
>>>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's
>>>>music
>>>>I
>>>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>>>NOT
>>>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>>>pleased
>>>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car
>>>>audio.
>>>>I
>>>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>>>judging
>>>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>>>know
>>>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>>>
>>>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>>>
>>>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>>>subwoofers?'.
>>>>
>>>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>>>and
>>>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept
>>>>upgrading
>>>>my
>>>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>>>because
>>>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate
>>>>12"
>>>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought
>>>>I
>>>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>>>speakers
>>>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>>>Alpine
>>>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The
>>>>next
>>>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when
>>>>Denon
>>>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>>>number
>>>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were
>>>>overrated
>>>>as
>>>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No
>>>>wonder
>>>>Denon went out of business.
>>>>
>>>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>>>6.5"
>>>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events
>>>>in
>>>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new
>>>>Nissan
>>>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed
>>>>the
>>>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful
>>>>engine
>>>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige
>>>>leather,
>>>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>>>
>>>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this
>>>>beautiful
>>>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>>>thousand
>>>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into
>>>>the
>>>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>>>had
>>>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality,
>>>>features,
>>>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>>>the
>>>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>>>ever
>>>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>>>you
>>>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to
>>>>be
>>>>a
>>>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob,
>>>>that's
>>>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>>>with
>>>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end
>>>>in
>>>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>>>their
>>>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>>>Accoustics
>>>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>>>grills
>>>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however
>>>>with
>>>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the
>>>>trunk
>>>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>>>elevated
>>>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>>>it
>>>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>>>trim
>>>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>>>(never
>>>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the
>>>>double
>>>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>>>was
>>>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>>>EQ
>>>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>>>popular
>>>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5
>>>>farad
>>>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool
>>>>thing
>>>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>>>blue
>>>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was
>>>>in
>>>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>>>configuration
>>>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>>>those
>>>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>>>I
>>>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>>>and
>>>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>>>so
>>>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>>>than
>>>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the
>>>>subwoofer/amp
>>>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>>>speaker wire throughout.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in
>>>>their
>>>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously
>>>>in
>>>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>>>arm-rest
>>>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>>>was
>>>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>>>damage
>>>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them
>>>>and
>>>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>>>
>>>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia
>>>>Hi-Fi
>>>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won
>>>>that
>>>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>>>the
>>>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>>>circuit
>>>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS
>>>>placed
>>>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>>>(which
>>>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as
>>>>I
>>>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>>>had
>>>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I
>>>>want
>>>>to
>>>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>>>car
>>>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>>>like
>>>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass
>>>>and
>>>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to
>>>>know
>>>>I
>>>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>>>systems.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how
>>>>I
>>>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly
>>>>15
>>>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk
>>>>was
>>>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>>>couldn't
>>>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass
>>>>is
>>>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack
>>>>drawer
>>>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>>>tell
>>>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was
>>>>a
>>>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>>>and
>>>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>>>job
>>>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for
>>>>only
>>>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>>>hours,
>>>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>>>
>>>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself
>>>>in,
>>>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the
>>>>subwoofer
>>>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>>>it
>>>>out of the car).
>>>>
>>>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my
>>>>installer,
>>>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and
>>>>should
>>>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>>>have
>>>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>>>always
>>>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>>>sub
>>>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>>>wonder
>>>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1"
>>>>MDF
>>>>if
>>>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>>>he
>>>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>>>used
>>>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>>>
>>>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well.
>>>>But
>>>>in
>>>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class
>>>>D
>>>>I
>>>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>>>other
>>>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>>>it;s
>>>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>>>
>>>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone
>>>>has
>>>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me
>>>>(41),
>>>>in
>>>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT
>>>>was
>>>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>>>the
>>>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered
>>>>"high-end"
>>>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know
>>>>any
>>>>better.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>>>
>>>>MOSFET
>>>>
>>>>

>>
>>



  #18  
Old August 2nd 09, 10:15 PM posted to rec.audio.car
Captain Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Howdy, you CHANGED your Email address...NUTJOB, PSYCHO!

Like I told you more then likely someone you ripped off on ebay tried to sell
your worthless car. You know all about crooks and how they do it, being one
yourself.



In article >, "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>Here's yet another example of your very weird obsession with me. And
>EVERYONE can see this for themselves to prove my point. I had you blocked
>but you CHANGED YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS JUST SO I WOULD SEE WHAT YOU POSTED.
>
>Your address WAS and I blocked you and now your address
>is
.
>
>I have blocked that one as well but I'l bet you'll CHANGE IT AGAIN.
>
>If this doesn't prove you're like some crazy stalker I don't know what does.
>OBVIOUSLY anyone who would go through this much trouble would certainly pull
>a stunt like try and sell my car online, I mean duh. And BTW, you can change
>your Email address as many times as you like you psycho nut-job, I'm NOT
>going to read anything of yours and just add your new addresses to my
>blocked list.
>
>CRAZY! CUCKOO!!! STALKER!!! NUTJOB!!!
>
>But hell, go ahead and just keep trying things. I'm curious to what lengths
>a crazy, obsessed Internet stalker will go to try to dis me or make my life
>miserable or whatever your crazy, ****ed up mind thinks you are doing to me.
>
>The REAL answer is nothing, except mild amusement and subtle bewilderment.
>
>But changing your Email speaks VOLUMES about your psychotic nature.
>
>MOSFET
>
>"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> See I told ya that you're a ****brick. You're the biggest **** tart on rac
>> in
>> many years. Over the years your advice has changed more then the weather.
>> I
>> don't know who tried to sell your car, must of been one of your fans or
>> someone you ripped off on Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/ysz5gv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In article > , "MOSFET"
>> > wrote:
>>>And I just can't help add one more thing. What the hell is it with me
>>>that
>>>bugs you so much? Why did you try and sell my car on an on-line car sales
>>>site, a nasty trick I reported to your IP which might have explained your
>>>mysterious three month absense from this group. What have I done to you?
>>>
>>>I try to be polite and helpful to all. I am NOT an EE and I would
>>>certainly
>>>not claim to know everything in the world about car audio. And I
>>>certainly
>>>may make a mistake now and then, and I have absolutely no problem copping
>>>to
>>>my mistakes.
>>>
>>>But here's the thing, I HAVE been involved with car audio for over 20
>>>years
>>>now. That is absolutely, positively true as my wife would more than
>>>attest.
>>>I HAVE worked for Phoenix Gold in their marketing department as I have an
>>>MBA from the University of Portland, class of '95. All of these facts can
>>>be checked out and verified, my name is Nicholas Victor Tanner. Phoenix
>>>Gold would be happy to tell you I have worked for them and the University
>>>of
>>>Portland Business School would certainly be more than happy to verify for
>>>you that I got my MBA in 1995, hell, I'll Email you a photo of my degree.
>>>They would also tell you I taught a Consumer Behavior class to both
>>>graduates and undergrads as an adjunct proffessor, and NO, I don't mean I
>>>was a TA, I designed the curriculm, had an office, office hours, the works
>>>(I did this in the evenings and was paid quite well, I mean it's a private
>>>Catholic school), the students called me Dr. Tanner which was technically
>>>incorrect as I don't have a PhD, but YOU KNOW I didn't correct them as I
>>>liked the sound of it. What education do you have, just out of
>>>curiosity (I want to know the education level of your average troll).
>>>
>>>I competed in IASCA events for years and have installed DOZENS of systems
>>>for friends, family and myself.
>>>
>>>Again, do I know it all? Of course not. But do I know a hell of a lot
>>>about car audio? I think I can honestly say, yes, I do. Certainly enough
>>>to help 90% of the questions that come this way.
>>>
>>>So again, I don't know where all the annimous (do you know what that word
>>>means?) comes from. I REALLY don't.
>>>
>>>But you're blocked so I won't hear any response and frankly, I really
>>>don't
>>>care.
>>>
>>>MOSFET
>>>
>>>"Captain Howdy" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Misfit you havent had a DECENT system in all the time that you've been
>>>> coming
>>>> here,stop the bull****. Just love the post about your new Alpine
>>>> speakers
>>>> a
>>>> while back, arent you the one that was making fun of Japanese speakers?
>>>>
>>>> I love stories too and I would love to share one about a ****brick that
>>>> has
>>>> been coming here for many years talking dumb **** as if he knew his face
>>>> from
>>>> his asshole just to keep changing his so called facts as time goes by.
>>>> But
>>>> I
>>>> think you already know that story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In article > , "MOSFET"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>OK, I'm so desperate to talk about car audio that I swear I'm going to
>>>>>start
>>>>>answering questions no one asked in the DESPERATE hope I might start a
>>>>>thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem is right now my car sounds absolutely better than ANY car
>>>>>system
>>>>>I have ever owned, or heard.....EVER. Again, today I spent several
>>>>>hours
>>>>>in
>>>>>my car, absolutely dazzled by the incredible sound quality. The
>>>>>Infinity
>>>>>Kappas driven by my Phoenix Gold amp and my 6.5" Alpine Class R's driven
>>>>>by
>>>>>my Fosgate Punch 225.2 just sound absolutely PERFECT together. I have
>>>>>the
>>>>>crossovers dialed in absolutely perfectly. I swear, even my wife's
>>>>>music
>>>>>I
>>>>>typically hate (soft rock) sounded wonderful and engaging. I really am
>>>>>NOT
>>>>>trying to brag or anything like that, it's just I happen to be VERY
>>>>>pleased
>>>>>at the moment with my system so naturally I want to talk about car
>>>>>audio.
>>>>>I
>>>>>am just VERY INTO CAR AUDIO at the moment. But the problem is that
>>>>>judging
>>>>>from the number of new posts, I feel like I'm the only one (of course I
>>>>>know
>>>>>many of you are heavily into car audio, too).
>>>>>
>>>>>So, answering questions nobody is asking....
>>>>>
>>>>>What about the old question of "where is the best place to put your
>>>>>subwoofers?'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let me tell you a little story about how I learned this leason the HARD
>>>>>and
>>>>>EXPENSIVE way. I first got heavily into car audio around 1988. Between
>>>>>1988 and 1995 I owned 4 different cars and with each car I kept
>>>>>upgrading
>>>>>my
>>>>>system. I mean, my very first car with what I would consider my first
>>>>>DECENT system back in 1988 had as it's front speakers a set of 4" Alpine
>>>>>coaxials driven by the head unit. I call it my first decent system
>>>>>because
>>>>>it was the first system I had ever owned with a SUBWOOFER driven by an
>>>>>outboard amp, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 75. And the sub was a Fosgate
>>>>>12"
>>>>>punch in a ported enclosure. Although the front stage stunk, I thought
>>>>>I
>>>>>was in heaven as I finally had BASS IN MY CAR!!!!! Oh, and my back
>>>>>speakers
>>>>>were a set of Fosgate 767's 6.5" coaxials, again driven by the HU. I
>>>>>upgraded by first buying another amp to drive the front speakers, an
>>>>>Alpine
>>>>>3522 (I think that was the model number, I know it ended in 22). The
>>>>>next
>>>>>upgrade was an amp to drive the rear Fosgate speakers, a Denon (when
>>>>>Denon
>>>>>used to make car amps) something, I honestly don't remember the model
>>>>>number
>>>>>but it was RATED at 30X2 but I could immediately tell they were
>>>>>overrated
>>>>>as
>>>>>the much smaller Alpine 3522 could blow this larger Denon away. No
>>>>>wonder
>>>>>Denon went out of business.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now I continued to make improvements, next using a much better quality
>>>>>6.5"
>>>>>coaxial in front and finally seperates. My first set of seperates were
>>>>>Boston Accoustics Pro series 6.5".
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, in 1993 and 1994 I dabbled in competing in several IASCA events
>>>>>in
>>>>>my area. My cars were pretty nice, clean, but my systema were really
>>>>>nothing to write home about. HOWEVER, in 1995 I bought a brand new
>>>>>Nissan
>>>>>Maxima. Now in case you don't remember, this is the year they changed
>>>>>the
>>>>>body style to the more rounded style, they put a much more powerful
>>>>>engine
>>>>>in and was Motor Trends car of the year. It was an SE with beige
>>>>>leather,
>>>>>sunroof, and was this beautiful black/green metalic color.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now this was really the height of IASCA and I desided with this
>>>>>beautiful
>>>>>new car I was going to pull out all the stops and put an award winning,
>>>>>magazine quality system in this car. I had a good friend who was an
>>>>>installer for Magnolia Hi-Fi so I paid him under the table several
>>>>>thousand
>>>>>dollars (and four weeks with no car as it was in his garage as he worked
>>>>>every single day on it after he got home from work, somtimes late into
>>>>>the
>>>>>night) to build an absolute kick-ass system. It was beautiful. It was
>>>>>driven by a single amp, a Soundstream Reference 705, 5 channel amp that
>>>>>had
>>>>>just come out and was hailed by everyone for it's sound quality,
>>>>>features,
>>>>>and high-current abilities (the subwoofer channel was .5 ohm stable, all
>>>>>the
>>>>>other channels were 1 ohm stable). I bought the new at the time, Alpine
>>>>>7939, the top of the line alpine, not the most attractive HU Alpine has
>>>>>ever
>>>>>built as the control knob looked like a nose and it was frankly a stupid
>>>>>design because although it kind of looked like a knob, it wasn't a knob,
>>>>>you
>>>>>turned the nose and all it accomplished was like hitting a volume up or
>>>>>volume down button, it was like it couldn't decide whether it wanted to
>>>>>be
>>>>>a
>>>>>volume knob, or volume buttons, so this was some kind of compromise.
>>>>>Thankfully, Alpine realized what most people want are knobs so they can
>>>>>attenuate the volume up or down as quickly as they can turn a knob,
>>>>>that's
>>>>>the way I like it, so I can INSTANTLY turn the volume all the way down
>>>>>with
>>>>>a quick flick of the wrist. Of course, all models of Alpine's that end
>>>>>in
>>>>>"9" (like the famous 7909) indicate they have no internal amplifier of
>>>>>their
>>>>>own and require outboard amps. My front speakers were the Boston
>>>>>Accoustics
>>>>>Pro Series seperates and what was cool about the SE series with the Bose
>>>>>system was that it CAME with A-pillar pods for the Bose tweeters with
>>>>>grills
>>>>>that, of course, matched everything so I simply used those for my Boston
>>>>>tweets and the midbass speaks went in the factory door spots, however
>>>>>with
>>>>>much Dynamat added to the doors and trunk. In fact, funny story, when I
>>>>>first got the car and you pushed the trunk button on the remote the
>>>>>trunk
>>>>>quickly poppped completely opened. I had so much Dynamat applied to the
>>>>>trunk that when you pushed the trunk button, it simply unlocked and
>>>>>elevated
>>>>>a pathetic 1/4", my wife wasn't real happy about that. I had Boston Pro
>>>>>6.5" midbass drivers (no tweeters) for rear fill, run in mono (I thought
>>>>>it
>>>>>helped anchor my center image better in mono). I had fake burled wood
>>>>>trim
>>>>>on the inside put in, had the ENTIRE "premium" Bose system ripped out
>>>>>(never
>>>>>saw more than 2 hours of use, don't think the cassette deck of the
>>>>>double
>>>>>DIN CD/Cassette player was EVER used). Had a burled wood push out spare
>>>>>compartment to fill the DIN space left behind after the double DIN unit
>>>>>was
>>>>>removed. He built a beautiful amp rack with amp, a Phoenix Gold 15 band
>>>>>EQ
>>>>>(EQ15 something, don't remember the model number but they were very
>>>>>popular
>>>>>EQ's at the time and for years afterwards) and two Monster Cable .5
>>>>>farad
>>>>>caps tied together by two Monster gold plated buss barrs. The cool
>>>>>thing
>>>>>was that the Phoenix Gold EQ and Monster caps all had lots of white and
>>>>>blue
>>>>>(and blue matched the amp of course) and all the wiring was hidden in a
>>>>>pull-out compartment under the subwoofer so all the visable components
>>>>>seemed to match with this blue and white theme. When the amp rack was
>>>>>in
>>>>>it's compartment under the sub, I had two fans in a push/pull
>>>>>configuration
>>>>>to wash air over the entire affair but it was nearly impossible to SEE
>>>>>those
>>>>>fans ( however, you bet I fricken MADE the IASCA judges see those fans).
>>>>>I
>>>>>had an Optima Yellow top, Phoenix circuit breaker (as I still do today),
>>>>>and
>>>>>unlike now (I have Phoenix Gold RCA's and speaker wire now as I sold the
>>>>>stereo with the Maxima as the stereo was completely "built-into" the car
>>>>>so
>>>>>there was more value in selling the stereo complete with the car rather
>>>>>than
>>>>>picking this thing and that out of it because obviously the
>>>>>subwoofer/amp
>>>>>rack was built into the car) I had all Monster Cable high-end RCA's and
>>>>>speaker wire throughout.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, the subs. I had a pair of Soundstream SPL12's, 12" subs in
>>>>>their
>>>>>own 1.5 cuibic foot sealed enclosures. Now the enclosure was obviously
>>>>>in
>>>>>the trunk, but the subs faced forward so when you put the rear seat
>>>>>arm-rest
>>>>>down you saw half of each sub, right there nearly at the opening. There
>>>>>was
>>>>>really no need for grills (although IASCA knocked some points off at one
>>>>>event which ****ed me off) as there was no way you could accidentally
>>>>>damage
>>>>>one as you would have to reach through the arm rest hole to touch them
>>>>>and
>>>>>of course nothing could accidentially fall back there or anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>ANYWAY, it was truly a work of art. I mean it was beautiful. And I
>>>>>certainly accumulated my share of trophies for the next few years. The
>>>>>largest being this RIDICULOUS 5 foot high trophy I won at a Magnolia
>>>>>Hi-Fi
>>>>>event, I won best of show, of course I think part of the reason I won
>>>>>that
>>>>>is that every component in that car was bought from store that sponsored
>>>>>the
>>>>>event, it certainly couldn't have hurt. And I did well in the IASCA
>>>>>circuit
>>>>>competing in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. As I recall, I ALWAYS
>>>>>placed
>>>>>(1st, 2nd or 3rd) competing in the amature 250-500 division I believe
>>>>>(which
>>>>>was actually a good division as the 150-300 watts division was MURDER as
>>>>>I
>>>>>recall and there were always many more competitors in that catagory). I
>>>>>had
>>>>>enough points to go to nationals my first year but it was out of the
>>>>>question as I couldn't take that much time away from work, nor did I
>>>>>want
>>>>>to
>>>>>have to rent a trailer or, of course, put several thousand miles on the
>>>>>car
>>>>>to drive to Daytona. Also, I knew enough about the real HEAVY HITTERS
>>>>>like
>>>>>Dave Rivera and Steve Brown who were already doing things with 'glass
>>>>>and
>>>>>Rivera's ridiculous fishtanks he incorporated in all his installs to
>>>>>know
>>>>>I
>>>>>didn't stand a chance against these SPONSORED (unlike me) multi-kilobuck
>>>>>systems.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, I'm actually finally getting to my original point which was how
>>>>>I
>>>>>learned some important lessons about bass. Basically, it started when I
>>>>>realized just by chance one day that when the trunk was open the bass
>>>>>increased SUBSTANTIALLY. At the time, I had no idea why this was so. I
>>>>>really didn't. So I believe I actually asked the question here nearly
>>>>>15
>>>>>years ago about why the hell my bass got so much louder when the trunk
>>>>>was
>>>>>open. Like I said, I did not know the things I know now and I just
>>>>>couldn't
>>>>>wrap my head around this frankly annoying phenomena (I wanted this
>>>>>substantially increased bass ALL THE TIME). And of course someone like
>>>>>Manville Smith explained to me that what was happening was that as my
>>>>>subwoofer cones were bassically at the center of the car and that bass
>>>>>is
>>>>>going back (as well as forward), bouncing off the rear-trunk, then going
>>>>>forward, this extra distance of travel causing these waves to become 180
>>>>>degrees out of phase and when those waves catch up to the waves going
>>>>>forward in the first place, they cancel out a substantial portion of my
>>>>>bass. Of course, I've spent thousands, this enclosure and amp-rack
>>>>>drawer
>>>>>are built into the car (I mean, when you opened my trunk, NOTHING would
>>>>>tell
>>>>>you there was a stereo there (except for the fact you might think it was
>>>>>a
>>>>>very small trunk for a car that size), EVERYTHING was completely stealth
>>>>>and
>>>>>built in AS IF it had come with the car. It was a truly amazing install
>>>>>job
>>>>>and if I were to pay a shop to do the work, I'm sure it would have cost
>>>>>several thousand dollars in installation alone (my friend did it for
>>>>>only
>>>>>$1000 for all his hard work night after night, he guessed probably 50
>>>>>hours,
>>>>>and keep in mind, this is what he does for a living).
>>>>>
>>>>>So of course, nothing could be done about the situation I found myself
>>>>>in,
>>>>>and I just learned to accept it (because, OBVIOUSLY, turning the
>>>>>subwoofer
>>>>>around was quite literally impossible unless I destroyed it first to get
>>>>>it
>>>>>out of the car).
>>>>>
>>>>>So I learned a VERY expensive lesson in accoustics: you always want your
>>>>>cones as close to the boundries of your car like corners or at least the
>>>>>rear-end to avoid cancellation. You know, I kind of blamed my
>>>>>installer,
>>>>>Glen, a bit as well. I mean, HE WAS CERTTIFIED for Pete's sake and
>>>>>should
>>>>>have seen this coming. I also let him do the majority of designing the
>>>>>system (I just picked out the components I wanted to use, but I let him
>>>>>have
>>>>>free reign with how the whole thing was to be designed and built. I
>>>>>always
>>>>>wonder if the subwoofers had simply been facing the rear with attractive
>>>>>sub
>>>>>grills and such, if the bass would have been much louder. OR, I now
>>>>>wonder
>>>>>if he had taken more time in sealing the space behind the sub with 1"
>>>>>MDF
>>>>>if
>>>>>those waves could have been prevented from going to the rear, because as
>>>>>he
>>>>>had it, he used just thin 1/8" plywood for facia elements covered in
>>>>>automotive carpet that matched the Maxima's trunk carpet (of course he
>>>>>used
>>>>>3/4" MDF for the sub enclosure).
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, to be fair, that system did pump out the bass pretty damn well.
>>>>>But
>>>>>in
>>>>>truth it doesn't come close to my two 15"s driven by my 1000 watt Class
>>>>>D
>>>>>I
>>>>>have now. I mean, my system now is TRULY a ground pounder, like none
>>>>>other
>>>>>I've ever owned. But, of course, beyond it's brute force, like I said,
>>>>>it;s
>>>>>SQ is simply AMAZING. Like I said at the begginging, THE BEST system I
>>>>>have ever owned or even HEARD in my life.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, that was a whole lot of bull**** for no good reason. If anyone
>>>>>has
>>>>>stories about their first systems or how they got into car audio I love
>>>>>hearing those stories. I reallly do because if you're old like me
>>>>>(41),
>>>>>in
>>>>>high-school the **** was 6x9's, a cassette deck and booster EQ. THAT
>>>>>was
>>>>>state of the art in '83 and was what I had in my first car (well, minus
>>>>>the
>>>>>booster EQ, but I did have a cassette deck which was considered
>>>>>"high-end"
>>>>>anda pair of 6X9's. Of course it sounded like crap but we didn't know
>>>>>any
>>>>>better.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, I love stories......please share......
>>>>>
>>>>>MOSFET
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>

>
>

 




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