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[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
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At where I work someone might buy a used
stereo receiver, a nice Yamha or Sony, from
ten years ago. They will usually pair it with
speakers of 3-6ohms impedance, even
though on the back the receivers might say 8-12
or even 8-16ohms. Am I right to recommend
they get higher - vs lower - impedance speakers
to go along with those receivers or amps?

I personally do not like the trend of lowering
impedances in consumer speakers, as I
feel the amp needs something to 'push against'
when it is driving the speakers.
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Theck-Mah womped:

... theckmah turds flushed ...


The answer is the same now as it was the last 37 times you've brought up the
same question. It doesn't matter what answer(s) you get; we know you'll be
back again proving that you didn't understand, and that you are incapable of
understanding.

I personally do not like the trend ...


Really, nobody gives a flying **** what you like. You're too retarded to
understand amplifier/speaker impedances, and nobody needs the advice of a
retarded dumb ****. HSDJF. DFR. SBDF.

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Mike Rivers:

Most receivers, old and new, specify a range of
impedances on their back plate that they can
safely drive. My home receiver states 8-16
ohms. Some newer ones state 4-8.

I was told time and time again over the last
thirty years to never hook up speakers of
impedance below that lower number. IE one
would never hook up 4-6ohm speakers to
a receiver specifying 8-16ohms. Or a 3ohm
speaker if the receiver minimum was 4ohms.

Yes, one wants speakers that 'sound good'
(the 'use your ears' crowd), but there are also
rules and guidelines that apply.
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Thick-MaMa sharted:

I was told time and time again over the last thirty years


.... yada yada yada, you're not paying attention. For thirty years, or more.
If you haven't been able to grasp the concept after thirty years,
splattering thAAT fact all over usenet wont help.

Numbers. Forget it. Numbers are your enemy. As long as you insist that you
can't do numbers, just forget the whole impedance thing. Or you could just
come to usenet every couple of months to publicly prove that you're still a
dumb-****. LKVNS, SFLK. HSK!



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Mike Rivers wrote: "
Did you ever find out why? If you understood the electronics (basic
electricity, actually) you'd understand why ignorant people tell you
that you should never do this, and understand why you can"

I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower
impedance than the minimum specified by a given
receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat
quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the
amp".

Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that
I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers
of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver. And even
if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed
or engraved on the back of it, and audition for the
best sounding speakers in the corresponding
impedance range. Those figures exist on the backs
of amplifiers & receivers for a reason.

This "use your ears; ignore the specs/numbers"
mentality today is irresponsible in my humble
estimation, and could lead to blown gear
and other sorts of damage(notably to said ears),
fires, etc.
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wrote:
At where I work someone might buy a used
stereo receiver, a nice Yamha or Sony, from
ten years ago. They will usually pair it with
speakers of 3-6ohms impedance, even
though on the back the receivers might say 8-12
or even 8-16ohms. Am I right to recommend
they get higher - vs lower - impedance speakers
to go along with those receivers or amps?


Or they should get different amps if they like those speakers. The amp
is rated for a minimum speaker impedance.

I personally do not like the trend of lowering
impedances in consumer speakers, as I
feel the amp needs something to 'push against'
when it is driving the speakers.


I have absolutely no idea what this means. It doesn't matter one bit what
the impedance is, as long as the amplifier can drive it and the speaker cable
can handle it. P=IV and you can increase I or V and either way get the same
results.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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On 8/3/2018 6:04 PM, wrote:
I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower
impedance than the minimum specified by a given
receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat
quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the
amp".


An amplifier can "overheat quickly" with the correct impedance speaker
connected if you operate the system stupidly. The part about
"insufficient load" is horse****. If anything, it's too great a load.
But the, still, only if you allow it to overload.

There's an "insufficient load" issue with a tube amplifier with an
output transformer. If you operate the amplifier without a load and push
it to its maximum output level, the output transformer could possibly
arc over internally, damaging the transformer or the output tubes. But,
again, this is only if you do something stupid.

Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that
I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers
of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver.


I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I
said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier
that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe
level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not
play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in
addition to impedance. Again, it's about avoiding doing something
stupid. And you can do something stupid (and cause damage) even with a
speaker of the recommended impedance connected.

And even
if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed
or engraved on the back of it


Nobody said you couldn't.

Those figures exist on the backs
of amplifiers & receivers for a reason.


Yes. As guidance for salesmen.



--

For a good time, call
http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Thick-MaMa sharted:

I was told ...


Nobody gives a **** what you were told. Since numbers are involved, you
probably don't even know what you were told; you probably weren't even
listening.

Same old story. Theckma Dumb-**** pretends to ask a question (which he's
asked dozens of times before), but he really just wants someone to tell him
that his dumb****ery is correct. Instead, reality is explained to him. He
doesnt want the real answer; he's too stupid to accept it. He gets upset.
He pretends he can school people that know better than he does. He does not
learn a thing. He holds tight to his dumb****ery, so he'll circle right back
around to the same charade again, as always. On the short bus, using your
ears is not allowed. That's not what loudspeakers are for on the short bus,
apparently. FSKFH. FCKWAFA! SBDF.

FCKWAFA.



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On 8/3/2018 6:57 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/3/2018 6:04 PM, wrote:
I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower
impedance than the minimum specified by a given
receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat
quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the
amp".


An amplifier can "overheat quickly" with the correct impedance speaker
connected if you operate the system stupidly. The part about
"insufficient load" is horse****. If anything, it's too great a load.
But the, still, only if you allow it to overload.

There's an "insufficient load" issue with a tube amplifier with an
output transformer. If you operate the amplifier without a load and push
it to its maximum output level, the output transformer could possibly
arc over internally, damaging the transformer or the output tubes. But,
again, this is only if you do something stupid.

Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that
I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers
of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver.


I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I
said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier
that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe
level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not
play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in
addition to impedance. Again, it's about avoiding doing something
stupid. And you can do something stupid (and cause damage) even with a
speaker of the recommended impedance connected.

And even
if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed
or engraved on the back of it


Nobody said you couldn't.

Those figures exist on the backs
of amplifiers & receivers for a reason.


Yes. As guidance for salesmen.



So ...I have this T-shirt ...it says:

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
~~
We seem to be there yet again.
--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

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On 03/08/2018 23:06, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I have absolutely no idea what this means. It doesn't matter one bit what
the impedance is, as long as the amplifier can drive it and the speaker cable
can handle it. P=IV and you can increase I or V and either way get the same
results.


I think what Thekma is on about is a tendency in automotive applications
to use speakers with very low impedances to permit more power to be
drawn from the limited supply voltage, the need for which is exacerbated
by the tendency of modern speakers to improve linearity at the expense
of efficiency. If you need a long throw, it's cheaper to make a long
voice coil than a long, uniform magnetic field which will contain the
whole coil. The down side is that a fair amount of the coil isn't
actually doing much, as it's outside the magnetic field.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news
wrote:
...I feel the amp needs something to 'push against' when it is driving
the speakers.


The amp doesn't give a **** how retarded you are.

I have absolutely no idea what this means.


That's OK; Theckmah also has absolutely no idea what it means. He'll be back
in a couple of months with the same short-bus dumb-****ery.

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Mike Rivers wrote: "For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not
play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker,"

You're gonna have to break that down for me.

I always thought that, "For a given setting on the volume
knob, an 8 ohm may not play as loud as a 4 ohm", or, a
12 or 16ohm may not play as loud at that setting as an
8 ohm speaker.

Isn't a speaker with a higher ohm number on the back
next to its wire terminal supposed to be harder to drive,
(IE, you need to turn UP the volume), than one with a
lower ohm value in back?


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On 4/08/2018 8:57 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I
said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier
that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe
level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not
play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in
addition to impedance.


Yes it depends FAR more on speaker efficiency. However given 2 speakers
both with the same efficiency, usually rated at SPL out for 2.83V input,
(1W into 8ohm) then the 4ohm speaker, NOT the 8ohm one will sound louder
at the same volume control setting, assuming the amplifier is capable of
handling the current. And there's the rub with cheap amps these days.
They are often rated for 6ohm+ speakers because they have limited
current capability for their maximum voltage output. So yes everything
is fine at low volume, but not when near maximum levels.


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Theckhhh-maaaah puked up message
...

Mike Rivers wrote: "For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm
speaker
may not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker,"

You're gonna have to break that down for me.


He can break it down for you, but he can't understand it for you. You keep
circling the drain; so why don't you just flush, and then **** off out of
here. FCKWAFA.

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Trevor wrote: "
Yes it depends FAR more on speaker efficiency. However given 2 speakers
both with the same efficiency, usually rated at SPL out for 2.83V input,
(1W into 8ohm) then the 4ohm speaker, NOT the 8ohm one will sound louder
at the same volume control setting, assuming the amplifier is capable of
handling the current. And there's the rub with cheap amps these days.
They are often rated for 6ohm+ speakers because they have limited
current capability for their maximum voltage output. So yes everything
is fine at low volume, but not when near maximum levels. "

THANK YOU Trevor for that clarification. That's
what I figured. Cheap pussy amps in today's
consumer audio equipment, thus a proliferation
of lower, and odd-numbered impedances listed
on the backs of speakers. Notice I'm keeping the
discussion HOME stereo related and not auto,
so we are comparing appoles to apples here.

But I must ask: What factors, most critically,
drive speaker efficiency?
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Dum**** drooled in message
...

Cheap pussy amps in today's
consumer audio equipment, thus a proliferation
of lower, and odd-numbered impedances listed
on the backs of speakers.


So it's clear that you did not understand Trevor's posts. He tried to
explain it, but you're just too stupid. It's clear that you will NEVER
understand speaker and amplifier impedances. You don't like odd-numbered
impedances? What kind of arithmophobic dumb-****ery is that? How much toilet
paper do you use after posting such ****?

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On 6/08/2018 12:39 AM, wrote:
Trevor wrote: "
Yes it depends FAR more on speaker efficiency. However given 2 speakers
both with the same efficiency, usually rated at SPL out for 2.83V input,
(1W into 8ohm) then the 4ohm speaker, NOT the 8ohm one will sound louder
at the same volume control setting, assuming the amplifier is capable of
handling the current. And there's the rub with cheap amps these days.
They are often rated for 6ohm+ speakers because they have limited
current capability for their maximum voltage output. So yes everything
is fine at low volume, but not when near maximum levels. "

THANK YOU Trevor for that clarification. That's
what I figured. Cheap pussy amps in today's
consumer audio equipment, thus a proliferation
of lower, and odd-numbered impedances listedÛ
on the backs of speakers. Notice I'm keeping the
discussion HOME stereo related and not auto,
so we are comparing appoles to apples here.


Nothing to do with cheap pussy amps. In fact you would be far more
likely to blow and amp of yesteryear vintage by running 4R on an amp
rated at 8R.


But I must ask: What factors, most critically,
drive speaker efficiency?


You are 'keeping the discussion HOME stereo related' . Choose an amp you
like and get speakers rated same what the speakers are. Or vice-versa.
Most are 8R. Some are 4R. other odd Zs tend to be in systems supplied as
whole systems, or matching ancillary gear withing that brand.

If you want to go very loud and shake things then factor maximum SPL
(and freq response) into the equation.

But don't over-think it.

geoff


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geoff:

Scenario: Someone owns an old amp speced 8-16
ohms, it's the year 2028, and the highest R speakers
available, used or new, are 4ohm.

What do they do?
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wrote:



But I must ask: What factors, most critically,
drive speaker efficiency?


** Speakers mostly rely on the formula: Force = mass x acceleration.

1. Force comes direct from the voice coil, producing more force from the same impedance voice coil results in higher efficiency.

2. A lighter cone or diaphragm accelerates faster, so for the same size is more efficient.

3. A larger size cone or diaphragm couples to more air so is more efficient.

All the above have *drawbacks* in other areas of speaker performance - like max power handling, distortion and bass response extension.

Loudspeaker designers have been fighting with these parameters for nearly 100 years. When unable to improve the drivers, they sometimes resort to "horn loading".


..... Phil





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Mike Rivers replied: "
Those figures exist on the backs
of amplifiers & receivers for a reason.


Yes. As guidance for salesmen. "

Boy are you skeptical!

Like I said previously, if some of you in this group
built cars, they'd probably come without an
instrument panel. 'Ignore the speedometer - use
your eyes!' Go as fast as everyone around you!
'Just fill your gas/diesel tank every 5-7 days - who
needs a FUEL GAUGE?'


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wrote:
Mike Rivers replied: "
Those figures exist on the backs
of amplifiers & receivers for a reason.


Yes. As guidance for salesmen. "

Boy are you skeptical!


He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is
not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the
cabinet resonance and rise up to 25 ohms or more somewhere else.

The ratings are really just guidance for what speakers are safe to use with
what amps, and they are reasonable guidance. They are not gospel.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey wrote: "He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is
not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance"

So say it's a really cheap plywood speaker cabinet
with a resonace around 200Hz. Is that impedance
engineered to be lower at that freq?

And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the
impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker,
especially where that speaker's impedance valleys
out. So why wouldn't the cabinet's barrel-sounding
frequency be assigned a HIGHER impedance?
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On 06/08/2018 14:39, wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: "He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is
not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance"

So say it's a really cheap plywood speaker cabinet
with a resonace around 200Hz. Is that impedance
engineered to be lower at that freq?

No, it happens no matter what the designer wants to happen. It's the
laws of physics that dictate what happens to speaker impedance as
frequency and drive power change. A good designer will make choices that
minimise these changes. An average designer may favour choices that
increase loudness and efficiency in certain frequency bands at the
expense of fidelity and constant impedance. A poor designer is happy
that it actually makes a sound.

And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the
impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker,
especially where that speaker's impedance valleys
out. So why wouldn't the cabinet's barrel-sounding
frequency be assigned a HIGHER impedance?

You keep showing your ignorance by saying things like "gut instinct"
when writing about scientifically verifiable and explicable facts.

Do all of us a favour and take an evening class in basic electronics,
ask the teacher about anything you don't understand after it's been
explained, then you will be able to do the calculations and, just
possibly not need to ask dumb questions in here. It's not rocket
science, it's barely horse and buggy complexity if you stick to rules.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Theckhhhhhhh-maaaaaaaaaaaah digested in message
...
And again, my gut instinct tells me


And again, your gut has no understanding of loudspeakers and amplifiers. In
that respect, your gut is a lot like your brain. In fact, they both generate
a whole lot of ****. You, with no comprehension, are trying to argue with
people who have deep knowledge and understanding of the subject matter.
That's really ****ing stupid (one of your nicknames). Speakers' and amps'
behaviors have nothing to do with your idiot misunderstandings or dumb-****
gibbering. If you're too stupid to understand elementary concepts such as
Ohm's law, then you're too stupid to advise people about speakers and amps.
Youve given ample evidence that you are, in fact, that stupid.




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theck-ma-ma-ma wrote in message
...

Mike Rivers replied: "... As guidance for salesmen. "
Boy are you skeptical!


No, he just understands how those numbers are derived, and what they are (or
aren't) good for. You have no idea how they are derived, or what they are
(or aren't) good for, so of course you will puke up an idiotically
ill-informed statement like:

Like I said previously,


Over and over again, too stupid to simply shut the **** up.

theck-ma's drooling, gibbering, and kook-dancing flushed


FCKWAFA.

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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news
please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law.


Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever.
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"John Williamson" wrote in message ...
Do all of us a favour and take an evening class in basic electronics,


Nope, he's too stupid to understand basic electronics, ever.

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wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: "He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is
not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance"

So say it's a really cheap plywood speaker cabinet
with a resonace around 200Hz. Is that impedance
engineered to be lower at that freq?


No, it's a function of the resonance. Put your hand in the speaker vent,
the resonance rises, and so does the peak on the impedance plot.

And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the
impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker,
especially where that speaker's impedance valleys
out. So why wouldn't the cabinet's barrel-sounding
frequency be assigned a HIGHER impedance?


Nobody "assigns" it. It's physics.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 7/08/2018 4:59 AM, None wrote:
"Mike Rivers"Â* wrote in message news
Â*please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law.


Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever.



Ohm's Law ? FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS !

geoff
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On 7/08/2018 6:52 AM, geoff wrote:
On 7/08/2018 4:59 AM, None wrote:
"Mike Rivers"Â* wrote in message news
Â*please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law.


Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever.



Ohm's Law ? FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS !


Trump has repealed it perhaps? He's certainly trying with a few other
laws of physics. :-)


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On 7/08/2018 2:58 AM, None wrote:
theck-ma-ma-ma wrote in message

crap removed
Over and over again, too stupid to simply shut the **** up.


More like he's a troll and you keep taking the bait rather than simply
add him to your blocked list. If everyone did that we wouldn't need to
see his ramblings at all.

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Trevor wrote: "More like he's a troll and you keep taking the bait
rather than simply add him to your blocked list. If everyone did
that we wouldn't need to see his ramblings at all. "

Hey Trevor: Read a few of 'None's replies here.
Compare what's contained in them to what's
contained in mine. Are mine laced with name-
calling and filthy language?...

Compare it's comments to mine and LEARN
how to ID a "troll" when you see one.

I came here to do just that: Learn something.
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