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[email protected] arthrnyork@webtv.net is offline
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Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Nov 14, 9:59*am, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:


On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve
* wrote:


dave wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your
satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a
technology that might last longer, but will more probably die
unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst.


Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used.. A
friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor
and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents
and files they had on it.


Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but
still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not
classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days,
he was told to dump it all.


A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement
was destroyed.


The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no
documents on what to do or how it was built.


Geoff.


What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air?


It had better *not* be in the air... *;-)


Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient
vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical
evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the
vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough?
It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of
gas molecules floating around at that height, even if
it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. *Anybody?


Lord Valve


For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main
reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't
get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning.
The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning.
Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite
is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which
would extinguish a TWT immediately.


d


Ah. Good point!


Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort
to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. *And it
would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were
hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT
would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during
the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma.
But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum
tickles my fancy a bit. *;-)


Lord Valve


I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices
... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now
gone ...


Regards,
JS


Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet?


Lord Valve
shrug


I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. *But, if I do, I
certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck
with others.


Regards,
JS


Oh.

So, you're just another garden-variety ****. *shrug
Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'heah?

Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


John Smith confessed once that he sleeps with a side arm under his
pillow!
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Lord Valve Lord Valve is offline
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Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

wrote:

On Nov 14, 9:59 am, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:


On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve
wrote:


dave wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your
satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a
technology that might last longer, but will more probably die
unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst.


Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A
friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor
and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents
and files they had on it.


Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but
still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not
classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days,
he was told to dump it all.


A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement
was destroyed.


The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no
documents on what to do or how it was built.


Geoff.


What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air?


It had better *not* be in the air... ;-)


Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient
vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical
evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the
vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough?
It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of
gas molecules floating around at that height, even if
it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody?


Lord Valve


For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main
reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't
get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning.
The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning.
Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite
is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which
would extinguish a TWT immediately.


d


Ah. Good point!


Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort
to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it
would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were
hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT
would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during
the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma.
But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum
tickles my fancy a bit. ;-)


Lord Valve


I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices
... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now
gone ...


Regards,
JS


Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet?


Lord Valve
shrug


I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. But, if I do, I
certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck
with others.


Regards,
JS


Oh.

So, you're just another garden-variety ****. shrug
Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'heah?

Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


John Smith confessed once that he sleeps with a side arm under his
pillow!


He can't keep it on the nightstand like everyone else?

You don't want a pistol in the sack with you...you
might blow your balls off by accident. Although, in
his case...


Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far




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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Posts: 3,964
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Nov 15, 9:31*am, Lord Valve wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 9:59 am, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:


On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve
* wrote:


dave wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your
satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a
technology that might last longer, but will more probably die
unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst.


Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A
friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor
and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents
and files they had on it.


Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but
still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not
classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days,
he was told to dump it all.


A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement
was destroyed.


The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no
documents on what to do or how it was built.


Geoff.


What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air?


It had better *not* be in the air... *;-)


Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient
vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical
evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the
vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough?
It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of
gas molecules floating around at that height, even if
it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. *Anybody?


Lord Valve


For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main
reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't
get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning.
The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning.
Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite
is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which
would extinguish a TWT immediately.


d


Ah. Good point!


Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort
to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. *And it
would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were
hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT
would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during
the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma.
But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum
tickles my fancy a bit. *;-)


Lord Valve


I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices
... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now
gone ...


Regards,
JS


Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet?


Lord Valve
shrug


I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. *But, if I do, I
certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck
with others.


Regards,
JS


Oh.


So, you're just another garden-variety ****. *shrug
Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'heah?


Got guns?


Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


John Smith confessed once *that he sleeps with a side arm under his
pillow!


He can't keep it on the nightstand like everyone else?

You don't want a pistol in the sack with you...you
might blow your balls off by accident. *Although, in
his case...

Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I'll prempt the probability that LV will call me a **** and say to
all, respectfully as any gentleman can, that when I am a ****, I know
it, and so LV needn't tell me about it.

Is LV getting WORSE as he's gettin older? wer'e into about 3 posts
from him with the firstie dissing JS for imbecilic reasons, during a
detailed discussion regarding 10,993.5 ways of building a radio and
including side issues of tubes used in satellites. Innocent stuff. And
who'd have guessed so many would have sprung from the woodwork to
discuss tubey radio thingies when most ppl here thought only 3 people
read r.a.t most days?
Anyway, then after such brevity from LV, we get stuff about guns, and
being American. I reckon LV is frightened witless about the world
outside himself.
I invite him to calm down, nobody is about to force him to be un-
american, and probably nobody would find it interesting to do a home
invasion at LV's house. Surely both activities would be boring, no?
Fat lotta good it does to have a shooter under the pillow when ya
snoring ya head off while someone steps out the window with the family
silver. Well, plasma TV set maybe.
But lemme tell ya, one does sure wake up fast when ya reach fo the gun
while half asleep and ya shoot ya ****ing dick off. Dozen madder;
being dickless at 60 yo probably improves a man. But such an event
does has ya thinkin fast about a doctor - **** the TV set, let 'em
have the darn thang.

Funny thing, I never had no need to ever even consider gettin a gun.
Jus' no need. There's no need for a front fence, and no need for any
dog. There used ta be a shiela livin 5 doors away down my street who
used to have a couple of those horrible little yappie terriers. Story
was that some bloke got slightly too amarous with her when she was 17,
about 20 years before and she never got over it. She had one of those
figures and a face that had blokes jus thinkin only one thing, but she
just couldn't handle any man's advance. Anyway, kids round our way
would chuck small rocks at her house windows whenever they walked
past, and this set off the dogs, and that'd set off her neighbours,
and they'd harrange the poor bitch about her 2 noisy dogs and all dogs
and humans involved took an hour to calm down. Comical it was. Anyway,
she musta moved because we don't cop the yap-yap or the argy-bargy
neighbours any more. Lucky it was that nobody had a gun, and that
nobody shot anyone, deliberately, or by mistake.

Such is life in Austrayan suburbs, where of course there are always a
few ppl who have gorn astray, as ppl do, but remarkably, there is very
little blood on the footpaths.

Patrick Turner.

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Lord Valve Lord Valve is offline
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Posts: 296
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

Patrick Turner wrote:

On Nov 15, 9:31 am, Lord Valve wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 9:59 am, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote:


On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve
wrote:


dave wrote:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your
satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a
technology that might last longer, but will more probably die
unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst.


Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A
friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor
and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents
and files they had on it.


Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but
still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not
classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days,
he was told to dump it all.


A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement
was destroyed.


The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no
documents on what to do or how it was built.


Geoff.


What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air?


It had better *not* be in the air... ;-)


Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient
vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical
evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the
vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough?
It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of
gas molecules floating around at that height, even if
it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody?


Lord Valve


For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main
reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't
get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning.
The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning.
Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite
is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which
would extinguish a TWT immediately.


d


Ah. Good point!


Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort
to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it
would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were
hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT
would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during
the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma.
But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum
tickles my fancy a bit. ;-)


Lord Valve


I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices
... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now
gone ...


Regards,
JS


Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet?


Lord Valve
shrug


I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. But, if I do, I
certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck
with others.


Regards,
JS


Oh.


So, you're just another garden-variety ****. shrug
Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'heah?


Got guns?


Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


John Smith confessed once that he sleeps with a side arm under his
pillow!


He can't keep it on the nightstand like everyone else?

You don't want a pistol in the sack with you...you
might blow your balls off by accident. Although, in
his case...

Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I'll prempt the probability that LV will call me a **** and say to
all, respectfully as any gentleman can, that when I am a ****, I know
it, and so LV needn't tell me about it.

Is LV getting WORSE as he's gettin older? wer'e into about 3 posts
from him with the firstie dissing JS for imbecilic reasons, during a
detailed discussion regarding 10,993.5 ways of building a radio and
including side issues of tubes used in satellites. Innocent stuff. And
who'd have guessed so many would have sprung from the woodwork to
discuss tubey radio thingies when most ppl here thought only 3 people
read r.a.t most days?
Anyway, then after such brevity from LV, we get stuff about guns, and
being American. I reckon LV is frightened witless about the world
outside himself.
I invite him to calm down, nobody is about to force him to be un-
american, and probably nobody would find it interesting to do a home
invasion at LV's house. Surely both activities would be boring, no?
Fat lotta good it does to have a shooter under the pillow when ya
snoring ya head off while someone steps out the window with the family
silver. Well, plasma TV set maybe.
But lemme tell ya, one does sure wake up fast when ya reach fo the gun
while half asleep and ya shoot ya ****ing dick off. Dozen madder;
being dickless at 60 yo probably improves a man. But such an event
does has ya thinkin fast about a doctor - **** the TV set, let 'em
have the darn thang.

Funny thing, I never had no need to ever even consider gettin a gun.
Jus' no need. There's no need for a front fence, and no need for any
dog. There used ta be a shiela livin 5 doors away down my street who
used to have a couple of those horrible little yappie terriers. Story
was that some bloke got slightly too amarous with her when she was 17,
about 20 years before and she never got over it. She had one of those
figures and a face that had blokes jus thinkin only one thing, but she
just couldn't handle any man's advance. Anyway, kids round our way
would chuck small rocks at her house windows whenever they walked
past, and this set off the dogs, and that'd set off her neighbours,
and they'd harrange the poor bitch about her 2 noisy dogs and all dogs
and humans involved took an hour to calm down. Comical it was. Anyway,
she musta moved because we don't cop the yap-yap or the argy-bargy
neighbours any more. Lucky it was that nobody had a gun, and that
nobody shot anyone, deliberately, or by mistake.

Such is life in Austrayan suburbs, where of course there are always a
few ppl who have gorn astray, as ppl do, but remarkably, there is very
little blood on the footpaths.

Patrick Turner.


Well, I....

**** it, it's too complicated to explain. Hit the archives
if you're interested. I haven't shot anyone so far, and
I'm not planning on it. However, they day ain't over...

BTW, you're a ****. I mean that in the nicest possible
way, of course; no more than the usual amount of offense
is intended. Hopefully Mr. Jute is reading this, so my efforts
won't go entirely unappreciated...

Got guns? (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Got_Milk%3F )

Lord Valve
American - so far (you figure it out)


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[email protected] rrusston@hotmail.com is offline
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Posts: 138
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

Eddystone dials are a similar thing.

The market has to be a mix of nostalgia and survival mentality. Yes,
a solid state radio can be made EMP proof, or highly resistant, but it
takes some doing.




As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

As an aside, any "survivalist" with half a brain has buried a couple
of solid state complete radios as well as a pile of surplus
semiconductors useful post-Blast in old ammo cans. A stash of common
bipolar and FETs, silicon diodes, common chips for radios and whatnot,
buried under ground could be more valuable than gold and at a hell of
a lot lower current acquisition price today. Some discussion on which
types would be interesting.

I don't consider myself a survivalist but I have a couple of guns and
some ammo buried along with a couple of full jerry cans of 100LL avgas
(it doesn't go bad) and some electronic stuff, plus some garage sale
Craftsman tools, some spools of wire from a motor shop (short ends),
and a couple things I won't mention. Better safe than sorry I figure.


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[email protected] rrusston@hotmail.com is offline
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Posts: 138
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

Australia got stupid with its gun laws when they let the 'sheilas'
vote. We got Prohibition under similar circumstances.

Female suffrage was a great idea...NOT!
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[email protected] arthrnyork@webtv.net is offline
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Posts: 81
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Nov 16, 2:18*am, wrote:
*Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

*First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

*Eddystone dials are a similar thing.

*The market has to be a mix of nostalgia and survival mentality. Yes,
a solid state radio can be made EMP proof, or highly resistant, but it
takes some doing.

*As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

*Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

*As an aside, any "survivalist" with half a brain has buried a couple
of solid state complete radios as well as a pile of surplus
semiconductors useful post-Blast in old ammo cans. A stash of common
bipolar and FETs, silicon diodes, common chips for radios and whatnot,
buried under ground could be more valuable than gold and at a hell of
a lot lower current acquisition price today. *Some discussion on which
types would be interesting.

*I don't consider myself a survivalist but I have a couple of guns and
some ammo buried along with a couple of full jerry cans of 100LL avgas
(it doesn't go bad) and some electronic stuff, plus some garage sale
Craftsman tools, *some spools of wire from a motor shop (short ends),
and a couple things I won't mention. Better safe than sorry I figure.


....so all this taken into consideration ... How much will this NEW
TUBED RADIO cost to build ? Ten -to-fifteen grand ?? Or a hell of a
lot more than that ???
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D. Peter Maus D. Peter Maus is offline
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Posts: 21
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On 11/15/11 19:05 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:45:09 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?



Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of
authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to
require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the
cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a
garage sale.


You need to be more cautious and critical of Internet and media hype.



And you need to make sure you're not talking to someone getting
his information first hand from the legislators voting on the bill.


It does not apply to non profits, flea markets, garage sales, persons
solely engaged in the business of buying, selling, trading in, or
otherwise acquiring or disposing of motor vehicles and used parts of
motor vehicles, or wreckers or dismantlers of motor vehicles, dealers
in coins and currency, dealers in antiques, gun and knife shows or
other trade and hobby shows, and, well, anyone who isn't a "secondhand
dealer"


Actually, these are specifically what the law is intended to
address.
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Dave Dave is offline
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Posts: 29
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:01:11 -0600, D. Peter Maus wrote:

On 11/15/11 19:05 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:45:09 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If the **** hits the fan, most hi-mu triodes will work well enough to

build a regen set. Where to get the B+ is the problem.
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Michael Black[_2_] Michael Black[_2_] is offline
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Posts: 43
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, wrote:

Wow, I lit a loaded fart off here, didn't I?

First, I said use a Hallicrafters band switch and an Eddystone dial
because there's probably a market for those with old Hallicrafterses
with bad bandswitches and with regen builders respectively. The
problem with the Hallicrafters band switch replacement market is that
there are so many DIFFERENT ones, if they were all the same they'd be
reproduced. Remember rotary switches are modular, to a degree, the
company that makes them builds them out of mostly off the shelf parts,
and in fact you CAN get new ones built, but the problem is that they
cost more than the value of most hallicrafters radios, since they have
to put them together as one offs. 500 units takes the price from $400
to $25-50 each. At twenty five bucks a shot you could sell a couple
hundred in six months....IF you had a unit that went into enough
popular radios.

You're making too much of an assumption. The cheap receivers used off the
shelf parts. But better ones used custom parts. Design is a tradeoff,
and using off the shelf bandswitch meant layout was determined by the
switch. Making their own, they could do what was needed for best design,
the cost might be higher but it's offset by ease in the rest of the
layout. Which is why you can't make a bandswitch that will fit all the
receivers from even one manufacturer.

There were Eddystone dials because the company made them for their
receivers and then happened to sell them as parts. Hammarlund made parts,
they were well known for their capacitors. National sort of, but then
they had Millen as a sort of manufacturing arm.

But if you wanted to use the bandswitch from the Hammarlund SP-600, you'd
have to follow the layout and design very carefully, since the turret
bandswitch was a key part of the receiver.

You're stuck with how many bands the receiver had, you're stuck with their
layout, you're stuck with using the same sort of design as the original
receiver.

A bandswitch is troublesome, and bulky, and in good receivers, expensive.
Which is why when solid state came along, there was a trend to do as much
bandswitching through DC as possible so the switch just had to control DC
and didn't have to be near the circuitry. Hence diodes were used as
switches. Relays sometimes. People saw that the cost of an active device
was so low, it was cheaper to duplicate oscillators than use a bandswitch
to switch coils and crystals. There again, it looks like a bad move cost
wise, but if the benefits are sufficient, then it's a good move. The
bandswitch becomes simpler (so no special part needed), the layout becomes
simpler.

Ray Moore once had an article in Ham Radio about receiver design. It was
nominally a description of a mostly AM broadcast band receiver he'd built.
But he made the point that a commercial receiver has to cut costs, since
each component is multiplied by however large the run is. For someone
making their own receiver, the cost of an extra bypass capacitor is only
five cents, or whatever, and no overhead on that extra capacitor. It's
simpler to add components if it makes the design simpler, rather than cut
components and deal with the issues. So having three IF stages rather
than two is not that big a deal cost wise for the home builder, but having
those three stages running at less gain than if there were two makes
layout simpler.




As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..

Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.

Those are horrible models for the homebuilder.

They were exceptional receivers, but they are also built like tanks. The
more expensive the receiver, the more shielding there is inside (in part
because it's good design, but likely also a reflection of their more
complicated design). Some of those receivers are awful to repair, since
you have to pull out layers and layers of pieces to get to the section you
need to deal with. Some of that is fallout from the need for a central
bandswitch.

You can't duplicate them unless you are willing to make copies, which are
beyond what most are capable of.

Michael


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On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, dave wrote:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:01:11 -0600, D. Peter Maus wrote:

On 11/15/11 19:05 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:45:09 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If the **** hits the fan, most hi-mu triodes will work well enough to

build a regen set. Where to get the B+ is the problem.

That simple, since there's only a few tubes.

9v "transistor" batteries in series. It doesn't take that many to get
reasonable B+ and since tubes are low current, it's reasonable.

Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some that
ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. Not so useful now since they
were produced in a limited time span as transistors were taking over, so
quantity is relatively limited.

The R392 ran off 24 or 28 volts, using those low plate voltage tubes. Of
course, it had a lot of tubes so the filament drain was large.

Of course, some people experimented with low voltage on regular tubes. A
loss of gain, but sometimes that was a good thing.

Michael

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On 11/16/11 15:21 , flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:01:11 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/15/11 19:05 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:45:09 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:

If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy
a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address.

Huh?

Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to
leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when
purchasing a radio?


Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of
authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to
require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the
cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a
garage sale.

You need to be more cautious and critical of Internet and media hype.



And you need to make sure you're not talking to someone getting
his information first hand from the legislators voting on the bill.


I don't ever blindly take anyone's characterization of something. I
read the text of the bill.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdat...asp?did=760886

Which, as it explicitly says, amends and reenacts (among other
sections) RS 37:1861

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=93498

However, to your implied innuendo, one would hope the author of a bill
understands it better than a web blog.



The broad definitions of 'second hand retailer' virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.



http://www.agcrowe.com/pg-51-15-pres...px?pressid=526

That doesn't mean I 'take his word' for it either but, I'll tell you
one thing, I can find HIS claims in the actual text of the law.

It does not apply to non profits, flea markets, garage sales, persons
solely engaged in the business of buying, selling, trading in, or
otherwise acquiring or disposing of motor vehicles and used parts of
motor vehicles, or wreckers or dismantlers of motor vehicles, dealers
in coins and currency, dealers in antiques, gun and knife shows or
other trade and hobby shows, and, well, anyone who isn't a "secondhand
dealer"


Actually, these are specifically what the law is intended to
address.


Says WHO?


As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.
Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.

They also attempted to ban owners' self repair of their own cars
through similar legislation.

It's an interesting state. More a foreign country than a State.
Where the limits of the Constitution appear not to apply. And with
this bill, 'legal tender' of the United States becomes illegal to
use within the State of Louisiana.

A court test is being prepared on this matter. Expect significant
debate locally on this. If not resistance.






My compendium of who it did not apply to is a collection of quotes
from enacted law prefaced by "B.... the provisions of this Part shall
not apply to." For example, the text beginning with "persons solely
engaged in" comes from page 2 of 8 of Act 389 (amending RS 37:1861).
The remainder comes from the unamended portion of RS 37:1861. I.E. The
text beginning with "dealers in coins.. " is item B (1).

Actually, the "persons solely engaged in" could have been quoted from
RS 37:1861 because the only change was [licensed under the provisions
of] "32:783."

They're simply trying to disrupt the sale of stolen goods through
secondhand dealers by requiring said dealers to use traceable payments
in their purchases and keep records identifying the seller; and even
if there were no 'exemptions' it applies only to secondhand dealers
and has nothing to do with 'consumers' because they are NOT
"secondhand dealers."



Agreed on that point.

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.



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You're making too much of an assumption. *The cheap receivers used off the
shelf parts. *But better ones used custom parts. *Design is a tradeoff,
and *using off the shelf bandswitch meant layout was determined by the
switch. *Making their own, they could do what was needed for best design,
the cost might be higher but it's offset by ease in the rest of the
layout. *Which is why you can't make a bandswitch that will fit all the
receivers from even one manufacturer.

There were Eddystone dials because the company made them for their
receivers and then happened to sell them as parts. *Hammarlund made parts,
they were well known for their capacitors. *National sort of, but then
they had Millen as a sort of manufacturing arm.

But if you wanted to use the bandswitch from the Hammarlund SP-600, you'd
have to follow the layout and design very carefully, since the turret
bandswitch was a key part of the receiver.

You're stuck with how many bands the receiver had, you're stuck with their
layout, you're stuck with *using the same sort of design as the original
receiver.


Which was good, basically. Hallicrafters was profitable-see Ed
Romney's discussion in his book. We want 500 kHz to 30 MHz in four or
five bands, which was de rigeur for general coverage receivers.


A bandswitch is troublesome, and bulky, and in good receivers, expensive.
Which is why when solid state came along, there was a trend to do as much
bandswitching through DC as possible so the switch just had to control DC
and didn't have to be near the circuitry. *Hence diodes were used as
switches. *Relays sometimes. *People saw that the cost of an active device
was so low, it was cheaper to duplicate oscillators than use a bandswitch
to switch coils and crystals. *There again, it looks like a bad move cost
wise, but if the benefits are sufficient, then it's a good move. *The
bandswitch becomes simpler (so no special part needed), the layout becomes
simpler.

Ray Moore once had an article in Ham Radio about receiver design. *It was
nominally a description of a mostly AM broadcast band receiver he'd built..
But he made the point that a commercial receiver has to cut costs, since
each component is multiplied by however large the run is. *For someone
making their own receiver, the cost of an extra bypass capacitor is only
five cents, or whatever, and no overhead on that extra capacitor. *It's
simpler to add components if it makes the design simpler, rather than cut
components and deal with the issues. *So having three IF stages rather
than two is not that big a deal cost wise for the home builder, but having
those three stages running at less gain than if there were two makes
layout simpler.

Can you cite the article? It'd be informative. I can get it from the
library.


As far as power in such a situation....In the old days they used car
batteries for heater voltages and a stack of dry cells, a dynamotor or
a vibra-pack for B+..


Look carefully at the old Collins and National sets. They developed
it to something of a fine art.


Those are horrible models for the homebuilder.

They were exceptional receivers, but they are also built like tanks. *The
more expensive the receiver, the more shielding there is inside (in part
because it's good design, but likely also a reflection of their more
complicated design). *Some of those receivers are awful to repair, since
you have to pull out layers and layers of pieces to get to the section you
need to deal with. *Some of that is fallout from the need for a central
bandswitch.

You can't duplicate them unless you are willing to make copies, which are
beyond what most are capable of.

* * Michael


The S/Line was not "built like a tank", but it was innovative and of
good quality. The R-390s and the A-line approach that designation much
more closely, as do Stoddart RI-FI measuring receivers and certain
Mackay Marine and Racal sets. S/Line was inspired by Art Collins'
purchase of a M series Leica camera, well built but also stylish and
compact. There was in fact a company that DID clone S/Line, except the
cabinetwork was kludgy by comparison. This is analogous to the Hickok
and Jetronix clones of Tek tube scopes-they weren't quite as good but
still way better than service grade scopes.
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On 11/16/11 18:14 , flipper wrote:

virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.


You're way late to the game, then, because there's nothing in the bill
that "expands the limits" to "flea markets, garage sales, and one on
one cash transactions" more than the already existing law.



Your selective attention is interesting.

It's the broadness of the language that expands the limits. Because
the broadness of the language does nothing to limit the definition of
the terms. And, one more time, the legislators voting for the bill
specifically intend for the law to include garage sales, flea markets
and one on one cash transactions. This by their own admission.



As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.


No offense intended but none of that means anything. What legislator,
what did he say, and why would I presume he knows better than the
author? And why should I take 'your word' or 'opinions'?


Well, that IS the crux of the argument, then, isn't it.



Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.


What in the world does that mean? Just 'who' is "Louisiana?" Maybe
they shouldn't vote for "Louisiana" next time if Mr. "Louisiana"
supports wacky things.


Wow. Obfuscation 101. This discussion has suddenly become a waste of
bandwidth.

Bottom line...I've lived there, you haven't. I deal with the
legislators in Louisiana every week, you don't.

You're entitled to your skepticism. Enjoy it.

Have a good evening.





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On 11/16/2011 4:30 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 11/16/11 18:14 , flipper wrote:

virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.


You're way late to the game, then, because there's nothing in the bill
that "expands the limits" to "flea markets, garage sales, and one on
one cash transactions" more than the already existing law.



Your selective attention is interesting.

It's the broadness of the language that expands the limits. Because the
broadness of the language does nothing to limit the definition of the
terms. And, one more time, the legislators voting for the bill
specifically intend for the law to include garage sales, flea markets
and one on one cash transactions. This by their own admission.



As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.


No offense intended but none of that means anything. What legislator,
what did he say, and why would I presume he knows better than the
author? And why should I take 'your word' or 'opinions'?


Well, that IS the crux of the argument, then, isn't it.



Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.


What in the world does that mean? Just 'who' is "Louisiana?" Maybe
they shouldn't vote for "Louisiana" next time if Mr. "Louisiana"
supports wacky things.


Wow. Obfuscation 101. This discussion has suddenly become a waste of
bandwidth.

Bottom line...I've lived there, you haven't. I deal with the legislators
in Louisiana every week, you don't.

You're entitled to your skepticism. Enjoy it.

Have a good evening.


Only an imbecile would support the law in the first place ... why screw
around with imbeciles?

He just needs to be told what an ignorant fooker he is and blown off ...
that is the problem today, people get confused and think they should be
"nice" to nuts, nuts need to be protected from hurting themselves and
those around them ...

Regards,
JS




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Kevin Alfred Strom Kevin Alfred Strom is offline
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On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,



Kevin Alfred Strom.
--
http://nationalvanguard.org/
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
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On 11/16/2011 4:59 PM, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments not
restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way -- but a
climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they also have _no_
right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the peons,
and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right to know
ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything about
theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents and
yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,



Kevin Alfred Strom.


I have agreed with you before, but this time makes the others appear
insignificant ...

Regards,
JS

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On 11/16/11 18:59 , Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,



Kevin Alfred Strom.




You'll get no argument from me. On any of these points.



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On 11/16/11 21:18 , flipper wrote:
Who was it, what were the questions, and what did they say? And why is
this so 'secret' that you never give any specifics?



When I get permission from the source, I'll pass it along.
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On 11/16/2011 7:24 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:59:32 -0500, Kevin Alfred Strom
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,



Kevin Alfred Strom.


You might have a different opinion if you were burglarized and all
your stuff was sold by 'private transactions' through a second hand
dealer front man.

Btw, the information only becomes available to the police in the event
of a criminal investigation and it's only that transaction. There is
no routine 'reporting to the government'.


Isn't that the reason we initially hired "cops" for? I mean, I realize
they are no longer doing a job for the people, the citizens -- and are
mostly revenue generators for the town, city, county, state, feds, etc.
But, really, watching every dollar trade hands is NOT what we have
public servants and authorities for, we don't have them to "punish" us
.... we simply need to remind them to do the original job they were
created for and the things you mention are already taken care of ...
let's just get the public servants and cops to do the job for the people.

Regards,
JS



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On 11/16/2011 7:25 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:50:08 -0800, John
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 4:30 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 11/16/11 18:14 , flipper wrote:

virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.

You're way late to the game, then, because there's nothing in the bill
that "expands the limits" to "flea markets, garage sales, and one on
one cash transactions" more than the already existing law.


Your selective attention is interesting.

It's the broadness of the language that expands the limits. Because the
broadness of the language does nothing to limit the definition of the
terms. And, one more time, the legislators voting for the bill
specifically intend for the law to include garage sales, flea markets
and one on one cash transactions. This by their own admission.



As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.

No offense intended but none of that means anything. What legislator,
what did he say, and why would I presume he knows better than the
author? And why should I take 'your word' or 'opinions'?

Well, that IS the crux of the argument, then, isn't it.



Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.

What in the world does that mean? Just 'who' is "Louisiana?" Maybe
they shouldn't vote for "Louisiana" next time if Mr. "Louisiana"
supports wacky things.

Wow. Obfuscation 101. This discussion has suddenly become a waste of
bandwidth.

Bottom line...I've lived there, you haven't. I deal with the legislators
in Louisiana every week, you don't.

You're entitled to your skepticism. Enjoy it.

Have a good evening.


Only an imbecile would support the law in the first place ... why screw
around with imbeciles?

He just needs to be told what an ignorant fooker he is and blown off ...
that is the problem today, people get confused and think they should be
"nice" to nuts, nuts need to be protected from hurting themselves and
those around them ...

Regards,
JS


I take it your definition of "imbecile" is "not a thief."


Intelligent thiefs are never caught, so difficult to analyze them ... or
else they are criminal public servants and all have get-out-of-jail-free
cards provided by their rich corporate, bankster, wall street puppet
masters ... so, you have a point, they are just well protected imbeciles ...

Regards,
JS

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Michael Black wrote:


Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some that
ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. Not so useful now since they
were produced in a limited time span as transistors were taking over, so
quantity is relatively limited.


Even rarer were tubes that drew almost no current. They used "cold cathodes"
so they did not need expensive (in terms of current and heat dissipation)
filaments and had low plate voltages.

They came out when transistors where just starting out, but rise of
transisitors was so rapid and transistors were so cheap in comparison, that
it was simpler and cheaper to build a 7 or 12 transistor radio than a 5 tube
cold cathode one.

They showed some promise in the missle and space exploration systems of the
time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes or
cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last long,
as improved "space grade" transistors came out.

What really killed them was NASA's adoption of the new integrated circuits
(which actually pre-date the "space race").

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(


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On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:34:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Michael Black wrote:


Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some
that ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. Not so useful now
since they were produced in a limited time span as transistors were
taking over, so quantity is relatively limited.


Even rarer were tubes that drew almost no current. They used "cold
cathodes" so they did not need expensive (in terms of current and heat
dissipation) filaments and had low plate voltages.

They came out when transistors where just starting out, but rise of
transisitors was so rapid and transistors were so cheap in comparison,
that it was simpler and cheaper to build a 7 or 12 transistor radio than
a 5 tube cold cathode one.

They showed some promise in the missle and space exploration systems of
the time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes
or cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last
long, as improved "space grade" transistors came out.

What really killed them was NASA's adoption of the new integrated
circuits (which actually pre-date the "space race").


Cold Cathode tubes were voltage regulators, displays, etc. I have never
seen a cold cathode amplifier.

Between miniature tubes and solid state there were Compactrons, which
were several tube stages in a single envelope.
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On 11/16/2011 11:34 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some that
ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. Not so useful now since they
were produced in a limited time span as transistors were taking over, so
quantity is relatively limited.


Even rarer were tubes that drew almost no current. They used "cold cathodes"
so they did not need expensive (in terms of current and heat dissipation)
filaments and had low plate voltages.

They came out when transistors where just starting out, but rise of
transisitors was so rapid and transistors were so cheap in comparison, that
it was simpler and cheaper to build a 7 or 12 transistor radio than a 5 tube
cold cathode one.

They showed some promise in the missle and space exploration systems of the
time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes or
cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last long,
as improved "space grade" transistors came out.

What really killed them was NASA's adoption of the new integrated circuits
(which actually pre-date the "space race").

Geoff.



Yes, you hit on the real death of tubes right there, the IC or
integrated transistors and our ability to place umpteen millions on a
single chip ...

Regards,
JS

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On 11/17/2011 5:18 AM, dave wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:34:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Michael Black wrote:


Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some
that ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. Not so useful now
since they were produced in a limited time span as transistors were
taking over, so quantity is relatively limited.


Even rarer were tubes that drew almost no current. They used "cold
cathodes" so they did not need expensive (in terms of current and heat
dissipation) filaments and had low plate voltages.

They came out when transistors where just starting out, but rise of
transisitors was so rapid and transistors were so cheap in comparison,
that it was simpler and cheaper to build a 7 or 12 transistor radio than
a 5 tube cold cathode one.

They showed some promise in the missle and space exploration systems of
the time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes
or cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last
long, as improved "space grade" transistors came out.

What really killed them was NASA's adoption of the new integrated
circuits (which actually pre-date the "space race").


Cold Cathode tubes were voltage regulators, displays, etc. I have never
seen a cold cathode amplifier.

Between miniature tubes and solid state there were Compactrons, which
were several tube stages in a single envelope.


There were tubes which contained a bit of thorium and required minimal
heater current. The slight radioactivity is a no go, as well as the
potential pollution to the environment ...

Regards,
JS



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In rec.audio.tubes dave wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:34:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

They showed some promise in the missile and space exploration systems of
the time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes
or cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last
long, as improved "space grade" transistors came out.


Cold Cathode tubes were voltage regulators, displays, etc. I have never
seen a cold cathode amplifier.


I think the tubes being referred to are field emission triodes and
various microwave tubes. You can certainly make a linear amplifier
with field emission devices.


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On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:38:50 +0000 (UTC), Peter Irwin
wrote:

In rec.audio.tubes dave wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:34:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

They showed some promise in the missile and space exploration systems of
the time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes
or cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last
long, as improved "space grade" transistors came out.


Cold Cathode tubes were voltage regulators, displays, etc. I have never
seen a cold cathode amplifier.


I think the tubes being referred to are field emission triodes and
various microwave tubes. You can certainly make a linear amplifier
with field emission devices.


Valves in space have probably finally met their match with Gallium
Nitride. It is pretty radiation-hard, and capable of valve-type power
outputs.

d
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On 11/17/2011 2:23 AM, John Smith wrote:
[...]

You might have a different opinion if you were burglarized and all
your stuff was sold by 'private transactions' through a second hand
dealer front man.

Btw, the information only becomes available to the police in the
event
of a criminal investigation and it's only that transaction. There is
no routine 'reporting to the government'.


Isn't that the reason we initially hired "cops" for? I mean, I
realize they are no longer doing a job for the people, the citizens
-- and are mostly revenue generators for the town, city, county,
state, feds, etc. But, really, watching every dollar trade hands is
NOT what we have public servants and authorities for, we don't have
them to "punish" us ... we simply need to remind them to do the
original job they were created for and the things you mention are
already taken care of ... let's just get the public servants and
cops to do the job for the people.

Regards,
JS




I agree, John. The purpose of the Constitution is not to help the
police.

If limiting government knowledge of my private transactions to zero
-- except in the case of a properly obtained and strictly limited
warrant -- slows down the police a little bit, well, that's just the
way it will have to be. Tough luck if a few crimes aren't solved as
fast. The greatest crime of all, the theft of our freedom, would
stop -- and that's _far_ more important than getting your BMW back,
or reducing the goddamned deficit.

Of course, restoring our privacy would also entail an instant and
total end to the income tax, since no entity would have any right
whatsoever to know what your income even was, much less tax it.
Yessiree Bob!


Esse quam videre,



Kevin Alfred Strom.
--
http://nationalvanguard.org/
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
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On 11/17/2011 10:05 AM, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
On 11/17/2011 2:23 AM, John Smith wrote:
[...]

You might have a different opinion if you were burglarized and all
your stuff was sold by 'private transactions' through a second hand
dealer front man.

Btw, the information only becomes available to the police in the
event
of a criminal investigation and it's only that transaction. There is
no routine 'reporting to the government'.


Isn't that the reason we initially hired "cops" for? I mean, I
realize they are no longer doing a job for the people, the citizens
-- and are mostly revenue generators for the town, city, county,
state, feds, etc. But, really, watching every dollar trade hands is
NOT what we have public servants and authorities for, we don't have
them to "punish" us ... we simply need to remind them to do the
original job they were created for and the things you mention are
already taken care of ... let's just get the public servants and
cops to do the job for the people.

Regards,
JS




I agree, John. The purpose of the Constitution is not to help the police.

If limiting government knowledge of my private transactions to zero --
except in the case of a properly obtained and strictly limited warrant
-- slows down the police a little bit, well, that's just the way it will
have to be. Tough luck if a few crimes aren't solved as fast. The
greatest crime of all, the theft of our freedom, would stop -- and
that's _far_ more important than getting your BMW back, or reducing the
goddamned deficit.

Of course, restoring our privacy would also entail an instant and total
end to the income tax, since no entity would have any right whatsoever
to know what your income even was, much less tax it. Yessiree Bob!


Esse quam videre,



Kevin Alfred Strom.


Quite so. And, take the sports out of the schools, the art out of
public projects, the perks out of public servant benefits, the special
interest grants, the gay grants, the womens' grants, etc, etc, etc.

Schools are for learning, public buildings are for absolute necessary
business of the people, etc.

I am for the govt getting a flat 10% of your net earnings and that is it
.... whatever we can't afford on that, too bad. But, one thing we need
to do is bring all the public servant and govt workers, be that fed,
state, county, city or town, pay into correct equivalency to the private
sector pay ... and cut a million other unnecessary govt expenditures and
funding ... there will be plenty of money, long as they support
Americans with jobs and an acceptable standard of living ... as it
stands now, with income tax, property tax, sales tax, fees and fines,
hidden taxes, gasoline taxes, etc., somewhere between 50% and 60% of
your income is going to the government in taxes -- some of these taxes
are just known by other names.

Take a hard look at how they have bent and warped the Constitution, laws
and systems, we are now simply paying them for the privilege of being
slaves to them.

It would be nice to have a nice "pirate SW station" discussing some of
this ... grin

Regards,
JS

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On 11/17/2011 1:49 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:30:28 -0800, John
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 7:25 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:50:08 -0800, John
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 4:30 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 11/16/11 18:14 , flipper wrote:

virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.

You're way late to the game, then, because there's nothing in the bill
that "expands the limits" to "flea markets, garage sales, and one on
one cash transactions" more than the already existing law.


Your selective attention is interesting.

It's the broadness of the language that expands the limits. Because the
broadness of the language does nothing to limit the definition of the
terms. And, one more time, the legislators voting for the bill
specifically intend for the law to include garage sales, flea markets
and one on one cash transactions. This by their own admission.



As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.

No offense intended but none of that means anything. What legislator,
what did he say, and why would I presume he knows better than the
author? And why should I take 'your word' or 'opinions'?

Well, that IS the crux of the argument, then, isn't it.



Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.

What in the world does that mean? Just 'who' is "Louisiana?" Maybe
they shouldn't vote for "Louisiana" next time if Mr. "Louisiana"
supports wacky things.

Wow. Obfuscation 101. This discussion has suddenly become a waste of
bandwidth.

Bottom line...I've lived there, you haven't. I deal with the legislators
in Louisiana every week, you don't.

You're entitled to your skepticism. Enjoy it.

Have a good evening.


Only an imbecile would support the law in the first place ... why screw
around with imbeciles?

He just needs to be told what an ignorant fooker he is and blown off ...
that is the problem today, people get confused and think they should be
"nice" to nuts, nuts need to be protected from hurting themselves and
those around them ...

Regards,
JS


I take it your definition of "imbecile" is "not a thief."


Intelligent thiefs are never caught, so difficult to analyze them


There is, no doubt, a good chunk of the prison population that thought
the same thing.

... or
else they are criminal public servants and all have get-out-of-jail-free
cards provided by their rich corporate, bankster, wall street puppet
masters ... so, you have a point, they are just well protected imbeciles ...


Sounds pretty 'smart' to me since, according to you, they've got you
beat.


Regards,
JS


I should have known it would be too difficult for you to connect the
dots, so let me just give you the answer ...

The intelligent crooks, perverts, child molesters, intern molesters,
treasonous terrorists, economic terrorists, etc. are illegally holding
our public servant offices and displaying their get-out-of-jail-free-cards.

Regards,
JS



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On 11/17/2011 1:44 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:23:40 -0800, John
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 7:24 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:59:32 -0500, Kevin Alfred Strom
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,



Kevin Alfred Strom.

You might have a different opinion if you were burglarized and all
your stuff was sold by 'private transactions' through a second hand
dealer front man.

Btw, the information only becomes available to the police in the event
of a criminal investigation and it's only that transaction. There is
no routine 'reporting to the government'.


Isn't that the reason we initially hired "cops" for?


What is the 'reason' you are mysteriously alluding to?

I mean, I realize
they are no longer doing a job for the people, the citizens -- and are
mostly revenue generators for the town, city, county, state, feds, etc.


Just how does a murder, burglary, theft, etc. investigation 'generate
revenue'?

But, really, watching every dollar trade hands is NOT what we have
public servants and authorities for,


And the bill doesn't do that, even for the limited group "secondhand
dealers" it addresses. It requires them to keep their own records,
which is no more information to no more people than the persons
involved in the transaction.

The only occasion for government to even know a transaction took place
is in the event of a criminal investigation.

we don't have them to "punish" us


Depends on who 'us' is. 'Punishment' is pretty much the whole concept
behind a prison system.

... we simply need to remind them to do the original job they were
created for


You mean like search and seizure police powers?

Of course, if you're a criminal the best thing is to not keep any
records they can search and seize, isn't it?

On the other hand, knowing who you're dealing with is pretty much SOP
for legitimate business even if for no other reason than they don't
want to be screwed by some fly by night huckster.

and the things you mention are already taken care of ...


And just how is it "already taken care of" when a criminal front man
doesn't 'know who' he bought the stolen goods from and paid cash so
it's untraceable?

I suppose we could go back to the bright light and rubber hose
methods.

let's just get the public servants and cops to do the job for the people.


I don't know what 'job' you have in mind since criminal theft rings
seem to be off your radar screen.

But let's get one thing clear. I never said this particular law was
well worded, 'ideal', or even adequate. All I said is that Internet
and media hysterics misrepresent both the intent and functioning of it
and your "watching every dollar trade hands" is an example.

But, to the point that started this sub thread, there is nothing
whatsoever in that law which requires any seller, secondhand or not,
to get the 'identity' of a --buyer-- (of a radio or anything else).

Btw, it isn't just the poor schmuck who got robbed that's screwed
because, no matter how much 'good faith' you had in buying, if the
'used' radio you bought from the "secondhand dealer" was stolen it
isn't yours. It goes back to the rightful owner and you're out
whatever you paid for it so Mr. "Don't know who and paid cash" is
screwing you too.

Regards,
JS


Gee, just when we thought we had enough, another complete imbecile ...
how special ...

Regards,
JS

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On 11/17/2011 2:20 PM, flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:59:32 -0500, Kevin Alfred Strom
wrote:

On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]

But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.





What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.


How do you propose funding government and, besides that, how do you
expect government to protect your property rights, such as your home,
if they don't even 'know' you bought/own it?

They are here to serve us,


I'm curious. How did you arrive at the theory that banks and
corporations, which are simply people engaging in "private
transactions," are "here to serve" you?

not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse.


They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.


Ya know, that's what Al Capone said too.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.



With every good wish,


Btw, strange and mysterious as it may seem I actually agree with the
nebulous gist, if not the details, of your point and, in that light,
let me mention that the theory to our form of governance holds that
governments do not have "rights" but are granted "powers." So, you are
quite correct in saying government has no "right" to know about
transactions, or anything else for that matter. The question is what
powers we wish to grant them for the purpose of our mutual benefit and
security. Like, in this instance, to be secure from having our
property stolen and fenced through 'secondhand dealers'.


Kevin Alfred Strom.


Well, true to form, you continue down an idiots path ... the public
servants are the treasonous crooks, the rich elite, corporations, NWO
types, etc. are their puppet masters ... neither are serving me.
Anyone, other than rich elite, corporations, NWO types, etc., who thinks
they are are serving them are imbeciles along with you.

Regards,
JS

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On Nov 17, 5:18*am, dave wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:34:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some
that ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. *Not so useful now
since they were produced in a limited time span as transistors were
taking over, so quantity is relatively limited.


Even rarer were tubes that drew almost no current. They used "cold
cathodes" so they did not need expensive (in terms of current and heat
dissipation) filaments and had low plate voltages.


They came out when transistors where just starting out, but rise of
transisitors was so rapid and transistors were so cheap in comparison,
that it was simpler and cheaper to build a 7 or 12 transistor radio than
a 5 tube cold cathode one.


They showed some promise in the missle and space exploration systems of
the time, because transistors could not stand the temperature extremes
or cosmic radiation they would be exposed to. That also did not last
long, as improved "space grade" transistors came out.


What really killed them was NASA's adoption of the new integrated
circuits (which actually pre-date the "space race").


Cold Cathode tubes were voltage regulators, displays, etc. I have never
seen a cold cathode amplifier.

Between miniature tubes and solid state there were Compactrons, which
were several tube stages in a single envelope.


There was also the 'Nuvistor'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuvistor
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On 11/18/11 01:54 , John Smith wrote:

Gee, just when we thought we had enough, another complete imbecile ...
how special ...

Regards,
JS




They appear to be in limitless supply, John.
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On 11/18/11 14:21 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:44:18 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
wrote:

On 11/18/11 01:54 , John Smith wrote:

Gee, just when we thought we had enough, another complete imbecile ...
how special ...

Regards,
JS




They appear to be in limitless supply, John.


If it seems everyone else is an 'imbecile' then it just might be the
reverse that is the case.



And then, again...it may not.




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On Nov 16, 6:59*pm, Kevin Alfred Strom
wrote:
On 11/16/2011 4:45 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
[...]



But the language of the bill is sufficiently broad to allow
interpretation beyond commercial interests alone, to include persons
conducting flea markets, garage sales, or one on one transactions.
To the degree that it's had a chilling effect on flea markets on the
local level, in areas where economic distress has made flea markets
a significant segment of the shopping culture.


What we need is a whole new culture of privacy.

A climate in which not only can corporations, banks, and governments
not restrict or tax or control our private transactions in any way
-- but a climate in which it is universally acknowledged that they
also have _no_ right to even _know_ what those transactions are.

They are here to serve us, not the other way round. They are the
peons, and we are the rulers -- not the reverse. They have no right
to know ANYTHING about our transactions.

We, on the other hand, have the absolute right to know everything
about theirs, and restrict them if we so choose.

A whole new mindset, of unalterable and immovable steel and will, is
needed.

I doubt, however, that a generation of cowed and bowed dependents
and yes-men can produce such a thing.

With every good wish,

Kevin Alfred Strom.
--http://nationalvanguard.org/http://kevinalfredstrom.com/


Wow.

I remember listening to YOU-and Dr. Pierce-on the first regen I ever
built when I lived in Texas, about ten miles from the Louisiana line
on that shortwave station the NA bought time on. I did not always
agree with what you said but I damn sure backed your right to say it.
Pierce was really an intelligent person. I read the biography on him
by Robert Griffin, great read.

Louisiana is a seriously warped state. Texas was screwed up in some
ways but Louisiana with its nightmarish hodgepodge of laws built on
four different legal systems and general laissez-les-bon-temps-rouler
attitude is Third World.

Regens are a pain in the ass. The best regen ever built was probably
the National SW-3, or for low frequency work the old Mackay Marine
set. Lindsay is full of **** when he says the homebrewer can better it
with moderate effort.And even so any mediocre superhet will outperform
it in some ways. My late forties Zenith console will separate stations
the SW-3 won't. But they are interesting to build-once-like the
crystal set, which can be run into a hi fi amp and give good local
station performance. My regen was the two tube set in the Romney book
which Lindsay also published. The SW-3 was far better-it would copy
ham CW on 80 and 40 consistently and even SSB with a good signal. The
homebrew was good for WWV and Radio Havana and that was it.
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On Nov 17, 1:30*am, John Smith wrote:
On 11/16/2011 7:25 PM, flipper wrote:









On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:50:08 -0800, John
wrote:


On 11/16/2011 4:30 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 11/16/11 18:14 , flipper wrote:


virtually expands
the limits of interpretation to include flea markets, garage sales,
and one on one cash transactions.


You're way late to the game, then, because there's nothing in the bill
that "expands the limits" to "flea markets, garage sales, and one on
one cash transactions" more than the already existing law.


Your selective attention is interesting.


It's the broadness of the language that expands the limits. Because the
broadness of the language does nothing to limit the definition of the
terms. And, one more time, the legislators voting for the bill
specifically intend for the law to include garage sales, flea markets
and one on one cash transactions. This by their own admission.


As I said, one of the legislators voting for the bill. I'm in
media. I frequently interview legislators about their intents, and
their actions. I've been attempting to get the Attorney General on
the line to explain how this law affects street level commerce.


No offense intended but none of that means anything. What legislator,
what did he say, and why would I presume he knows better than the
author? And why should I take 'your word' or 'opinions'?


Well, that IS the crux of the argument, then, isn't it.


Louisiana has been attempting to get control of cash transactions
since I lived there in the 80's.


What in the world does that mean? Just 'who' is "Louisiana?" Maybe
they shouldn't vote for "Louisiana" next time if Mr. "Louisiana"
supports wacky things.


Wow. Obfuscation 101. This discussion has suddenly become a waste of
bandwidth.


Bottom line...I've lived there, you haven't. I deal with the legislators
in Louisiana every week, you don't.


You're entitled to your skepticism. Enjoy it.


Have a good evening.


Only an imbecile would support the law in the first place ... why screw
around with imbeciles?


He just needs to be told what an ignorant fooker he is and blown off ....
that is the problem today, people get confused and think they should be
"nice" to nuts, nuts need to be protected from hurting themselves and
those around them ...


Regards,
JS


I take it your definition of "imbecile" is "not a thief."


Intelligent thiefs are never caught, so difficult to analyze them ... or
else they are criminal public servants and all have get-out-of-jail-free
cards provided by their rich corporate, bankster, wall street puppet
masters ... so, you have a point, they are just well protected imbeciles ....


Sooner or later they do get caught, because they get greedy and or
sloppy.

Look at Leopold and Loeb.. Two really intelligent individuals who got
the idea to kill someone to see if they could. The local cops had
them in jail in no time at all even though the average cop back then
was a dumb****. They narrowly escaped execution because Clarence
Darrow defended them.
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[email protected] rrusston@hotmail.com is offline
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Posts: 138
Default Building a new shortwave tube radio



Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some that
ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. *Not so useful now since they
were produced in a limited time span as transistors were taking over, so
quantity is relatively limited.

The R392 ran off 24 or 28 volts, using those low plate voltage tubes. *Of
course, it had a lot of tubes so the filament drain was large.

Of course, some people experimented with low voltage on regular tubes. *A
loss of gain, but sometimes that was a good thing.



The R392 used conventional tubes selected for performance at 24 volt B
+. 24 volts isn't much but is a lot better than 12. The 12 volt tubes
were space chrge affairs and were current hogs and delicate.
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Steve Steve is offline
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Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

Hate to say this but you are doomed to fail from the start.
Why? There are PILES of tube type SW receivers available
now FAR cheaper than you could build one.

Hey, I get it. It'd be a fun project. I've thought about doing
something like this myself but seriously consider the cost.
Not just of the parts but the time involved in the design,
marketing, and *liability insurance*. Bet you didn't think
about that one!
Steve


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NT NT is offline
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Default Building a new shortwave tube radio

On Nov 16, 4:23*pm, Michael Black wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, dave wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:01:11 -0600, D. Peter Maus wrote:


On 11/15/11 19:05 , flipper wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:45:09 -0600, "D. Peter Maus"
*wrote:


On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:
If the **** hits the fan, most hi-mu triodes will work well enough to

build a regen set. Where to get the B+ is the problem.


That simple, since there's only a few tubes.

9v "transistor" batteries in series. *It doesn't take that many to get
reasonable B+ and since tubes are low current, it's reasonable.

Of course, towards the end of the life of tubes, one could get some that
ran off 12v, intended for use in car radios. *Not so useful now since they
were produced in a limited time span as transistors were taking over, so
quantity is relatively limited.

The R392 ran off 24 or 28 volts, using those low plate voltage tubes. *Of
course, it had a lot of tubes so the filament drain was large.

Of course, some people experimented with low voltage on regular tubes. *A
loss of gain, but sometimes that was a good thing.

* * Michael


In the 19-teens it was common to run triodes with no negative bias,
and very low V_anode, like 20-30v. It worked, and cuts HT battery
cost, but of course distorts the grid signal.


NT
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