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Ian Thompson-Bell[_3_] Ian Thompson-Bell[_3_] is offline
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Default A Mac is an elegant implementation for elegant people, so...

WindsorFoxSS wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
WindsorFoxSS wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
WindsorFoxSS wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
WindsorFoxSS wrote:
Yabut, I'm no Jack when it comes to computers. I work with them
all day everyday and have figured many things out on my own. You
would think that someone with my ability, even with next to no
Linux experience could muddle through installing Firefox on SuSE


Doesn't SUSE come with Firefox already installed??

Cheers

Ian

Yes, but it was an old version.


Doesn't SUSE include a system for regular online updates of its
apps? If it doesn't perhaps you should try Ubuntu or Kubuntu both of
which do.

Cheers

Ian

You can't "update from FF 1.xx to FF 2. You have to DL and install
new. I DLed a number of files but was not able to get anything to work.



Strange, I thought Yast was supposed to care care of that sort of
think but I have never been a fan of SUSE. Which version of SUS is this?

Cheers

Ian


I don't remember, it's been a year ago. The only thing distro I'm
wrestling with at the moment is IP in order to try to get a reasonably
priced fire wall with more than 100 rules. Seems like it was 10?


SUSE is not at 10.3 which is not that far from 10 so i am still
surprised Yast did not handle the upgrade. Strange but SUSE is now owned
by Novell who are sort of in bed with M$ so are sort of tainted by the
dark side in the view of many Linux purists. I would recommend you try
Ubuntu/Kubuntu.

Cheers

Ian
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Ian Thompson-Bell[_3_] Ian Thompson-Bell[_3_] is offline
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Default A Mac is an elegant implementation for elegant people, so...

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:55:13 +0000, Ian Thompson-Bell
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:36:30 -0500, "WindsorFoxSS"
wrote:
I will say one thing, if the more popular versions of Linux made it
as easy to install upgrades and new software as OSX and Win, including
WINE and/or other Windows emulator/converters, I would have hopped a lot
harder and a long time ago.
Yeah. The Linux community has been slow to recognize the concept of
'user friendly', with 'user' defined as Jack and Jill Average, and the
fragmented, inconsistent, nature of the O.S. exacerbates the problem.

I think it is a misconception to assume the 'Linux community' has any
special desire to make the OS/apps friendly to Jack and Jill average
users.


Well, there are plenty who at least profess the goal of 'taking over
the desktop' and that's a bit problematic if Jack and Jill Average
can't use it.

Certainly some distro providers have this aim but most have
financial motives for it and they are only a small part of the
'community'. Most community members are happy with the diversity offered
by Linux.


That's a circular argument since those who aren't happy stop using it.


No, Linux has always been about choice including the choice not to use
it. It was not designed for Joe Average so it is not surprising many try
it and then leave it. Linux is what it is, an OS that mainly suits the
computer literate. Some distros are trying to make it more accessible
which is fine.

Cheers

Ian
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Ian Thompson-Bell Ian Thompson-Bell is offline
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Default A Mac is an elegant implementation for elegant people, so...

flipper wrote:

And while we're at it, I'm not aware of any software vendor, or group,
that goes around shoving guns to user's temples to make them use it so
they're all "about choice including the choice not to use it."


Not in the real world. The vast majorityof people in the workplace and
education have no choice but to use M$.

It was not designed for Joe Average


That's what I said. "of the programmer, by the programmer, for the
programmer."


That is how it started out. As I said, *some* distros are aiming for the
desktop but that does not mean Linux as a whole is.


so it is not surprising many try
it and then leave it. Linux is what it is,


Then the 'debates' and hype about taking over the desktop are
meaningless.


There is no hype. The debates are not meaningless because some distros
vendors *are* aiming for the desktop.

an OS that mainly suits the
computer literate.


Ah, yes. Now *that* is the Linux Community I remember so well.

Some distros are trying to make it more accessible
which is fine.


They'll never make it glomming together code written by the
traditional "damn the user" Linux community.


You may be right, but my crystal ball is no better than yours, time only
will tell.

Cheers

Ian
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Ground Busses

"John Byrns" wrote in message

In article ,


"Arny Krueger" wrote:


"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news


Your Yamaha and toyshop mics on a handcart are
a world away from proper professionals recording.


Actually, the whole lot of them including the Yammy 02R96 are generally
recognized as being professional tools. Maybe not high end professional
tools, but professional tools for sure.

Iain's claim that an 02R96 is not a professional tool shows what a Luddite
he really is.

OTOH, handy little tools like the Korg hard disk recorder, are good ways
further down the food chain. Calling a Korg hard drive recorder a console in
the same class as fine studio machine like the 02R96, is a big leap. It's
really a basement/bedroom studio item.

If you put a Korg hard disk recorder on top of an 02R96, the Korg might slip
off and hit the floor and be broken. If you put an 02R96 on top of a Korg
hard disk recorder, the Korg will be crushed and smooshed and parts will fly
in several directions. Obviouisly, the O2R96 wins the rock/paper/scissors
test. ;-)

Shows how ignorant you are of mainstream recording gear,
Iain.


It looks to me like he nailed you.


Of course John. You're obviously just as ignorant as he is. :-(

I seriously doubt that either of you would recognize an 02R96 on first
sight. You simply don't know what you are talking about. And figuring out
how to use one would be mission impossible. Sitck to toobs! ;-)


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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Ground Busses

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news
Your Yamaha and toyshop mics on a handcart are
a world away from proper professional recording.


Shows how ignorant you are of mainstream recording gear,
Iain.

Toyshop is toyshop.


I hesitate to say that the Korg hard disk recorder is not professional, but
it is clearly sold to the basement/bed room studio segment of the so-called
professional market.

Trying to call it "mainstream" won't make it any better.


The 02R96 doesn't need to be any better, as it is a very fine professional
studio/sound reinforcment tool as it stands. However, the 02R96 has a bit of
a reputation as being hard for those who are inexperienced with digital
consoles to use. I seriously doubt that you would be able to hook one up and
fully exploit it without a lot of help and re-training, Iain.




  #286   Report Post  
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Iain Churches[_2_] Iain Churches[_2_] is offline
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Default Ground Busses



"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news


The 02R96 doesn't need to be any better, as it is a very fine
professional studio/sound reinforcment tool as it stands


It's a toyshop desk. Fine for foldback, not much else.
The team with which I am associated owned one for four
years. We bought it new (hugely discounted) as we thought
its compact format might be convenient for string quartet
recordings. Neither clients, players nor the recording team
were satisfied with its performance. After that we used it
a few times as an FOH desk, and then sold it on.


However, the 02R96 has a bit of a reputation as being hard for those who
are inexperienced with digital consoles to use


You jest. The Yamaha's simplicity is one of its (few)
redeeming features. The manual is thinner than the
standard recording contract:-))

I seriously doubt that you
would be able to hook one up and fully exploit it without a lot of help
and re-training, Iain.


I can understand that a semi-literate from Detroit might find it
difficult, but not the rest of us. Didn't Yamaha use the slogan
"The simplicity of digital" to launch the O2R96 in Europe?

You live in a toyshop recording world, Arny,
Take a look at the Lawo, Studer, SSL and AMS-Neve
and find out about *proper* consoles.

The purchase price of a proper desk includes two courses of
hands-on-training, for both service and recording personnel.
Depending on the deal, this may well be at the manufacturer's
location, all expenses paid.

You could also ask AMS Neve about their built-in disk recorder.
But make sure you are sitting down, the the brakes firmly applied
on your hand-cart before you ask about prices:-))

Iain







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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Ground Busses

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news


The 02R96 doesn't need to be any better, as it is a
very fine professional studio/sound reinforcment tool as
it stands


It's a toyshop desk.


It's a generally recognized professional tool.

Fine for foldback, not much else.


It's widely used and respected.

The team with which I am associated owned one for four
years. We bought it new (hugely discounted) as we thought
its compact format might be convenient for string quartet
recordings. Neither clients, players nor the recording
team were satisfied with its performance.


Of course not. It was too inexpensive, and had way too much function for the
size of the box.

Remember, you never did anything but sighted evaluations of it.

Besides, a goodly number of people of your vintage Iain, can't get past the
menus and the layers.

After that we used it a few times as an FOH desk, and then sold it on.


Hopefully, it found a home where the people could get past their egos, and
appreciate it.

However, the 02R96 has a bit of a reputation as being
hard for those who are inexperienced with digital
consoles to use


You jest.


No, there's a story around this town about the principle of a well-known
installation firm who brought one into a customer to demo, and couldn't get
it to pass any sound whatsoever. He tried to talk me out it when I was
planning to get mine. He tried to bad mouth it even after I had been very
sucessfully using it for about 2 years.

The Yamaha's simplicity is one of its (few)
redeeming features. The manual is thinner than the
standard recording contract:-))


Horsefeathers. Now I know you are BSing.

I seriously doubt that you
would be able to hook one up and fully exploit it
without a lot of help and re-training, Iain.


I can understand that a semi-literate from Detroit might
find it difficult, but not the rest of us. Didn't Yamaha
use the slogan "The simplicity of digital" to launch the
O2R96 in Europe?


Google says that you are confused, Iain. No such thing can be found.


You live in a toyshop recording world, Arny,
Take a look at the Lawo, Studer, SSL and AMS-Neve
and find out about *proper* consoles.


Been there, done that, Iain. They have the big boxes and fancy front panels
that impress folks like you.

The purchase price of a proper desk includes two courses
of hands-on-training, for both service and recording
personnel. Depending on the deal, this may well be at the
manufacturer's location, all expenses paid.


That's probably true for the kind of low-life that your company hired, Iain.



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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi

You could also ask AMS Neve about their built-in disk
recorder. But make sure you are sitting down, the the
brakes firmly applied on your hand-cart before you ask
about prices:-))


Iain, as usual you're out of date.

Looking at the music consoles on the AMS/Neve web site:

http://www.ams-neve.com

I notice that their latest-greatest SOTA Genesys, and 88D consoles *do not*
have a built-in disk recorder for recording music.

Like the 02R96, both consoles offer remote controls for DAW software such as
Pro Tools, running on a PC. Unlike the 02R96, I see no mention of Nuendo
support, but perhaps it is there.

Consoles with built in hard drive recorders are so 1990s, Iain.

Welcome to the new millenium! ;-)





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Michael Press Michael Press is offline
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Default A Mac is an elegant implementation for elegant people, so...

In article ,
Nick Gorham wrote:

keithr wrote:


[...]
Inertia is one of the strongest forces in the universe, there is still a lot
of people who given the opportunity to use the Mac, the PC or one of the
implemetations of X-windows would still rather stick to the arcane world of
*nix shell command line. We tend to make our choices early on and only
change either when we have to or when the advantages are so great that we
cannot ignore them. I never used the Mac because back in the day when they
did have advantages, I couldn't justify the extra expense over building a PC
from bits. Now I don't see any advantage in using one, all of the software
that was unique to the Mac is now available for the PC.


Well, having developed software on the Mac using xcode (and something
unspeakably nasty on a 68000 mac),
most thing from turbo pascal to
visual studio on Windows, I can still turn out better code in less time
using the old standard tools, vi, make, cc, etc. YMMV.


Amen to that.
I stay with Macintoshes and like them.
As you, I write code the old fashioned way.
And since TeXShop became available on the
Mac, all of my pretty page layout documents
are written with vi, and the pdf file generated
by TeXShop.

--
Michael Press
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