Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#281
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: Romeo Rondeau wrote: Eeyore wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Marc Amsterdam" wrote in message Not checking your metering when mixing is like not checking the speedometer when driving, or altitude when flying, NOT a good idea! Agreed - providing of course that there is a PFL meter to check with. NOT agreed here. It's almost never necessary. But then I have been mixing for 35 years. Newbies may feel the need to do it more 'by the book' than is actually necessary. So, let me get this straight, you are saying that meters are for newbies? No. Don't misrepresent what I said. Keeping an eye on the output levels is important. It's a simple fact however that a well-designed mixer with a sensible internal gain stucture simply can't be clipped if you're operating it competently and not for example using absurd fader settings. Graham Fair enough. I see what you mean... the meters help us maximize s/ ad set up the levels for the ext stage or outbaord gear to igore them is simply BAD egineerig eyesore is not qualified to speak on live sound , because he ever gets it right |
#282
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message . .. "Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Peak operating levels through a console or a preamp should be at least 10 dB below clipping. Under those conditions, the clipping light is always dark, and unlikely to ever light. I don't get the point in that speculation. If you want maximum signal to noise ratio then you need to use the available dynamic range. To do that efficiently you of course need to know what you are doing. Yes, like not adding high levels of distortion just to gain a couple of dB of S/N ratio. MrT. distortion IS noise you cann ot increase the s/n by adding noise. George |
#283
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"sam" wrote in message ... Mr.T wrote: "Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... The solution is simple: reduce input sensitivity on power amps used with it. Yep, I'm always amazed how many people always run the power amps at full gain without having a clue about the input levels. MrT. Power amps always run at full gain, they just have input attenuators a very importat point that all should uderstad amps are fixed gain devices george |
#284
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Arny Krueger wrote: Your dynamic range math gives results that differ from my experience with these extreme dynamic range recording events ... vox that runs out of bits sounds plastic when lifted in post, at least 20 dB equipment range is required below the room sound, not just the 6 dB you seem to consider enough. Where did I say 6 dB? He : The signals they amplify come from sources that : have residual noise in both the acoustical and electrical domains. : Rarely does the signal being amplified have more then about 75 dB : dynamic range. That means that it is practical to allow from 15 : to 69 dB for headroom, without significant reduction of the : signal's dynamic range. 69 from 75 equals 6. You could have written clearer btw. Also, not quoted for clarity, you assert that the dynamic range of a digital mixer can be larger than the dynamic range of the analog stage that feeds signal to the AD converter we already painted arii into his corner on this one a month ago he is still clueless o the real dynamic range of live mixing |
#285
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... and most manuals will give you the headroom once the peak blinks so it is a valid way of setting pfl, if others ways are not providied That results in setting a channel way too HOT. That's the kind of bad advice I recall seeing 30 years ago and it seems IDIOTS like George havn't moved on since then. George is an audio dinosaur if he reckons you should set channel levels so the clip LED blinks. and what did I say tur it up until it blinks then turn it back so it wont this is how its done when a clip light is your only meter I never said run your mixer with clip lights blinking those are your words, not mine So true, one wonders what the levels on the mix bus are like when he sets 16 channels to clipping point! :-) see above I am clipping nothing during the mixing as most clip lights come on at least 3 if not 6dB before actual clip I have adaquate headroom but honestly I cant remember using any desk over 4 channels that did not provide proper metering so your imagined senerio of 16 channels going to clip simply never has and never will happen MrT. |
#286
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Sometimes, for specmanship, the available maximum level is SO high (e.g. +30dBu) it would be nuts to try to use it. Or even impossible without overloading downstream equipment. That is indeed why it's nuts. Graham |
#287
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
|
#288
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
|
#289
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: wrote yes arii turn it up till it bliks then turn it back just enough so it doesn't Yep, sometimes the only way, never a good way however. Better advice would be to adjust the gain trim til the clip LEDs light, then turn the gain trim down by TEN dB ! Turning it down so the channel 'just' doesn't clip according to the LEDS gives almost no worthwhile headroom at all. It'll also guarantee nonsense fader settings too. Graham |
#290
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Anyone with half a clue can set channel gains without PFL metering. I rarely need to resort to it. Near enough is good enough for you though it would seem. And you probably don't worry about overloading the mix bus either. I've been giving this some thought. Admittedly I have decades of experience but I didn't clip my channels when I started in this business either. To a certain extent you've either got the 'knack' or you haven't. In my case I do of course have the advantage of a thorough technical understanding of the internal workings too. Graham |
#291
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote The hindrance is the absence of a schematic which will likely add an hour or more to the time required to service it. But you've already spent an hour complaining here! :-) That's 'on my dollar' not the customer's. Graham |
#292
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Eeyore wrote:
wrote: distortion IS noise An interesting viewpoint.. Graham It`s all noise shirley? just some of it`s good noise and some of it aint! Ron(UK) |
#293
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote The only reason I need a channel PFL is if I need to 'troubleshoot'. Like why the audience has to put up with the distortion :-) More like because I want to listen to the channel in detail in isolation. It is pre-fade LISTEN after all. Any decent modern mixer with a sensible gain struture (and operated proficiently) is in no danger whatever of clipping a channel under normal mix conditions. As such, fretting over channel levels is a pointless and futile exercise. You are lucky that all the instruments you plug in have similar output levels then. No they don't. There's this thing called the gain trim you see. Graham |
#294
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
|
#295
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
|
#296
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
|
#297
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Ron(UK)" wrote: Eeyore wrote: wrote: distortion IS noise An interesting viewpoint.. It`s all noise shirley? just some of it`s good noise and some of it aint! Just 'the wrong kind of noise' maybe ? Graham |
#298
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Eeyore wrote:
wrote: distortion IS noise An interesting viewpoint.. It's correlated noise, as opposed to uncorrelated noise that appears even when there is no signal. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#299
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Eeyore wrote:
I can tell you MY client's not very happy that buying a new crossover is cost-competitive with a repair (because Behringer's policy inflates the repair cost). Look, you buy disposable gear, you expect it to last a couple years and then get thrown away. If you object to this, then don't buy disposable gear. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#300
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: I can tell you MY client's not very happy that buying a new crossover is cost-competitive with a repair (because Behringer's policy inflates the repair cost). then why didn't you fix it for him? you claim to know circuts inside and out troubleshooting such a simple device surely would not be a challenge to you it wasnt for me and I am a hack when it comes to repairs but my crossover was a ashley 2001 that though schematic were available I chose to go in without one cause its not a complicated are difficult device even my allen and heath Icon I did not need a schematic to resolve the bridging rectifier issue the fact is most equipment , you do not need a schmatic to get repairs done a little basic knowledge and a few simple tools will cover most audio gear being a tech is not hard or mentally strenous but it is boring as hell and tech work for a pittence of what I earn so why would I spend productive time doing 20$ a hour work when my skills bill out at 65-130$ a hour make more sense for me to hire solder jockeys at this point in my career george |
#301
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Mr.T wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Peak operating levels through a console or a preamp should be at least 10 dB below clipping. Under those conditions, the clipping light is always dark, and unlikely to ever light. I don't get the point in that speculation. If you want maximum signal to noise ratio then you need to use the available dynamic range. To do that efficiently you of course need to know what you are doing. Yes, like not adding high levels of distortion just to gain a couple of dB of S/N ratio. Yes, here is as an example of the gruesome outcome of my relaxed attitude the statistics of the raw 71 minutes and 48 seconds of chamber music concert recorded today: Left Right Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768 Max Sample Value: 32767 32767 Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB Possibly Clipped: 10 56 DC Offset: -.001 -.001 Minimum RMS Power: -96.49 dB -96.51 dB Maximum RMS Power: -12.46 dB -11.59 dB Average RMS Power: -25.62 dB -25.11 dB Total RMS Power: -23.84 dB -23.31 dB Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits Using RMS Window of 300 ms Sampling frequency is 44100 kHz, and the total number of possibly clipped samples, both channels counted is 66. I could have avoided them by recording at a 2 dB lower level, so yes: high levels of distortion was the trade-off for some 2 dB S/N ratio. Two of those clipped samples are in the final tutti, the remainder are in the applause. The outcome of unclipping in Audition put the peaks 1.5 dB above 0 dB FS. Just what music is it you normally work with since the first couple of dB's of clipping ends up constituting "high levels of distortion" in your experience? MrT. Not that I advocate clipping as a sound recording strategy, but worrying too much - nah, don't wanna do that, one has to know what to worry about and a bit of clipping of the applause is not for me a major worry. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#302
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Scott Dorsey wrote: Eeyore wrote: I can tell you MY client's not very happy that buying a new crossover is cost-competitive with a repair (because Behringer's policy inflates the repair cost). Look, you buy disposable gear, you expect it to last a couple years and then get thrown away. I personally expect any decently designed electronics to last say 10 years or more. There's precious little to 'wear out' and I object to the very concept of the throwaway society. It's disgustingly wasteful. If you object to this, then don't buy disposable gear. Try explaining this to the people who buy it. THEY don't consider it disposable. There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years. Graham |
#303
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
|
#304
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Peter Larsen wrote: Sampling frequency is 44100 kHz, and the total number of possibly clipped samples, both channels counted is 66. I could have avoided them by recording at a 2 dB lower level, so yes: high levels of distortion was the trade-off for some 2 dB S/N ratio. It's unlikely the s/n ratio would have suffered any. The s/n ratio is almost always going to be determined by the source not the (digital) recorder. Was the 'silence' really -90 dBd or so ? You will have gained nothing. Graham |
#305
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Eeyore wrote:
Scott Dorsey writes: Look, you buy disposable gear, you expect it to last a couple years and then get thrown away. I personally expect any decently designed electronics to last say 10 years or more. There's precious little to 'wear out' and I object to the very concept of the throwaway society. It's disgustingly wasteful. If you object to this, then it's simple. STOP BUYING DISPOSABLE GEAR. Try explaining this to the people who buy it. THEY don't consider it disposable. They find out in short order when it breaks. There is a reason why the Behringer crossover costs less than a Marchand. You will notice that every neighborhood used to have a corner TV repair shop, and now they are almost completely gone? Consumer electronics is so cheap that it is not cost-effective to repair. There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years. This is the basic lifetime expected of TV sets and VCRs. This is considered to be about the average life of a consumer electronics product. Since people regularly want to upgrade to get new features, it's not considered important to extend the lifetime greatly beyond that point. This is the way cheap consumer electronics are. If you don't like it, don't buy it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#306
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
This is the way cheap consumer electronics are. If you don't like it, don't buy it. or in eyesores case just go whine about it till your blue in the face at aapls George |
#307
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Peter why do you have to be so damn sensible?
I have been known to let some metal kick drums clip slightly it give them lots more punch and in the din and rumble of a metal show I defy anyone to identify the instant that I have choosen to use distortion as a tool to produce a desired sound george |
#308
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Scott Dorsey wrote: Eeyore wrote: Scott Dorsey writes: Look, you buy disposable gear, you expect it to last a couple years and then get thrown away. I personally expect any decently designed electronics to last say 10 years or more. There's precious little to 'wear out' and I object to the very concept of the throwaway society. It's disgustingly wasteful. If you object to this, then it's simple. STOP BUYING DISPOSABLE GEAR. There is nothing inherent in Behringer kit that would deem it DISPOSABLE. It's perfectly repairable and it's actually quite decently made IMHO. The only thing that makes it economically disposable is the added repair cost imposed by their lack of end user support. Graham |
#309
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Paul Stamler" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... There are many Distribution Amplifiers (DAs) with +30dBm (yes, *m*) output capability. It's only dB*m* if there's actually a 600 ohm load connected. I very much doubt that's ever the case. In which case it's assuredly dB*u*, a voltage. I simply can't see the point of dBms today in a non-600ohm world. It strikes me as pointlessly retrogressive. It's not entirely a non-600ohm world. Two places where 600ohm drive is needed: 1) Compressors of the 1176 variety. They're still popular (because they sound good) and show up in a lot of studios. They have 600 ohm input impedance. 2) Telephone lines. If you do any work in the broadcast world, sooner or later you'll need to feed a phone line. Yeah, I know, but sometimes you just plain have to, so you need gear which will do it. Good systems design requires 18dB headroom throughout the chain. Where did you get your 18dB from ? There have been several studies of required peak-to-average capability published, mostly in JAES, and they tend to converge on needing 17-18dB of headroom over "nominal" level (defined as "what you measure on the VU meter"). +22dBu. The kind of op-amps I typically use (4560 4580 5532) will deliver +21dBu when operated on the +/- 17V supplies I favour. Additionally, I often operate the channels at 'reduced level', typically 6dB 'below external level'. That offers (21-4)+6 dB of headroom = 23dB. Which should be fine. These days a lot of balanced outputs are made with opamps driving each leg; if the opamp can deliver +18dBu on each leg (which should be no sweat, even with 15V supplies) then the total will be +24dBu, which means you should never have clipping problems. We used to describe operators as VU "Meter Minders" or "Pin Pounders". For the latter, some downstream forgiveness saves a gaggle of problems. VUs are worthless things that simply provide minor entertainment IMHO. A common view in the UK, not so much here. Having worked with recorders possessing only peak-reading meters, I discovered the hard way how much closer a VU is to matching perceived loudness. Not as close as a Dorrough, perhaps, but a lot closer than the peak meters. Again, in a broadcast environment, where we were scattering insert edits through the tape, on deadline. Peace, Paul Thanks for these responses, Paul. You have saved me the effort. I'll add that the UREI LA-3A *requires* a 600 ohm load for flat frequency response. I suspect the 1176 does as well. In the 1980s, Peak Program Meters (PPMs) were imposed on ABC-TV Hollywood's Audio Operators. I said "AOs who can't stay out of the red on a VU meter where there is some forgiveness won't be able to stay out of the yellow on a PPM where there's almost none". This proved to be true. We almost were able to arrange an exchange of the dozens of PPMs for VUs with the dual (amber/red) LEDs I described. Someone shot it down. I'll characterize a problem with peak indicators this way: "Turn right 3 blocks *before* you get to Broadway". (Once you get there, you've gone too far!) -- ~ ~ Roy "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!" |
#310
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Scott Dorsey wrote: Eeyore wrote: There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years. This is the basic lifetime expected of TV sets and VCRs. This is considered to be about the average life of a consumer electronics product. Not my experience. There is very little to actually 'wear out' in electronics. Why do you think it should be thrown away after 3 years ? Graham |
#311
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Larsen wrote: Sampling frequency is 44100 kHz, and the total number of possibly clipped samples, both channels counted is 66. I could have avoided them by recording at a 2 dB lower level, so yes: high levels of distortion was the trade-off for some 2 dB S/N ratio. It's unlikely the s/n ratio would have suffered any. The s/n ratio is almost always going to be determined by the source not the (digital) recorder. Was the 'silence' really -90 dBd or so ? You will have gained nothing. Not so Graham, by not making an adjustment of the record level during the recording I have gained not having to make the reverse adjustment in post to maintain actual dynamics. That DSP action had involved a lot more audio samples than the ones I unclipped afterwards. I respectfully submit that clip and unclip of applause is less audible than an extra step of DSP action on the innards of stray cats from Cremona. With two clipped samples on the recorded music I also submit that I got the record level right. I'll take the trade-off that favours the violin sound anytime. This is btw. the first time I have experienced a chamber music audience being louder than the chamber music with that mic setup (ORTF cards) in that hall .... with omni's they are 6 dB louder, and if I had used omni's I had made allowance for them. Graham Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#312
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Roy W. Rising" wrote: I'll add that the UREI LA-3A *requires* a 600 ohm load for flat frequency response. Yet there's very little (almost no) kit that will provide a 600 ohm load. I suspect the 1176 does as well. Unlikely with its Lundahl LL5402 output transformer. In the 1980s, Peak Program Meters (PPMs) were imposed on ABC-TV Hollywood's Audio Operators. I said "AOs who can't stay out of the red on a VU meter where there is some forgiveness won't be able to stay out of the yellow on a PPM where there's almost none". This proved to be true. We almost were able to arrange an exchange of the dozens of PPMs for VUs with the dual (amber/red) LEDs I described. Someone shot it down. I'll characterize a problem with peak indicators this way: "Turn right 3 blocks *before* you get to Broadway". (Once you get there, you've gone too far!) Which is why in Europe our TV sound isn't clipped. Graham |
#313
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Eeyore wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Eeyore wrote: There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years. This is the basic lifetime expected of TV sets and VCRs. This is considered to be about the average life of a consumer electronics product. Not my experience. There is very little to actually 'wear out' in electronics. Why do you think it should be thrown away after 3 years ? It's not me, it's the average consumer. Within three years, there will be a new generation of products that have new features and different blinking lights. Marketing tells the consumer that this new generation is so much better than what he bought a couple years ago, so he buys the new one. If you have the consumer buying new products every three years, there's no reason to make them last much longer than that. Personally, I won't buy modern consumer gear, because I don't like being treated that way. I'm in the minority, though. I wind up having to explain this a lot, though, to kids who wonder why it will cost them $500 to repair a thing they paid $200 for. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#314
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Peter Larsen wrote: Eeyore wrote: Peter Larsen wrote: Sampling frequency is 44100 kHz, and the total number of possibly clipped samples, both channels counted is 66. I could have avoided them by recording at a 2 dB lower level, so yes: high levels of distortion was the trade-off for some 2 dB S/N ratio. It's unlikely the s/n ratio would have suffered any. The s/n ratio is almost always going to be determined by the source not the (digital) recorder. Was the 'silence' really -90 dBd or so ? You will have gained nothing. Not so Graham, by not making an adjustment of the record level during the recording I have gained not having to make the reverse adjustment in post to maintain actual dynamics. That DSP action had involved a lot more audio samples than the ones I unclipped afterwards. I respectfully submit that clip and unclip of applause is less audible than an extra step of DSP action on the innards of stray cats from Cremona. That sounds like obfuscation to me. With two clipped samples on the recorded music I also submit that I got the record level right. I'll take the trade-off that favours the violin sound anytime. This is btw. the first time I have experienced a chamber music audience being louder than the chamber music with that mic setup (ORTF cards) in that hall .... with omni's they are 6 dB louder, and if I had used omni's I had made allowance for them. So what was your noise level ? I have some trouble believing you had a true dynamic range coming out of your microphone or mixer in excess of 90dB. Graham |
#315
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Arny, you need to check what the criteria for audible clipping are. Been there, done that. If you had then you wouldn't be talking such crap. Phildo |
#316
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Peak overload
Eeyore wrote:
Not so Graham, by not making an adjustment of the record level during the recording I have gained not having to make the reverse adjustment in post to maintain actual dynamics. That DSP action had involved a lot more audio samples than the ones I unclipped afterwards. I respectfully submit that clip and unclip of applause is less audible than an extra step of DSP action on the innards of stray cats from Cremona. That sounds like obfuscation to me. The violin sound fine to me, that's what I care about in this context. With two clipped samples on the recorded music I also submit that I got the record level right. I'll take the trade-off that favours the violin sound anytime. This is btw. the first time I have experienced a chamber music audience being louder than the chamber music with that mic setup (ORTF cards) in that hall .... with omni's they are 6 dB louder, and if I had used omni's I had made allowance for them. So what was your noise level ? I didn't plan writing about the recording here, otherwise I had measured actual event sound levels with my 6110i. What I can tell you is that the recording is of todays concert at Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek in Copenhagen and that the building has a very interesting noise foundation consisting of museum visitors footsteps, nearby trains and diesel locomotives, Tivoli if open and the bells of the town hall clock. I have some trouble believing you had a true dynamic range coming out of your microphone or mixer in excess of 90dB. Graham, some of the time you are more of an electronics engineer than a sound engineer. Wanting me to record the applause to a chamber music concert unclipped on a 16 bit recorder is one of those times. FWIW here is the stats for recorded noise on the input of the MR8HD with the masterfader of the external mic pre turned down and the line input gain set at "2 o'clock": Left Right Min Sample Value: -4 -3 Max Sample Value: 2 2 Peak Amplitude: -77.25 dB -79.44 dB Possibly Clipped: 0 0 DC Offset: -.002 -.002 Minimum RMS Power: -95.24 dB -95.16 dB Maximum RMS Power: -93.7 dB -94.01 dB Average RMS Power: -94.81 dB -94.82 dB Total RMS Power: -94.8 dB -94.82 dB Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits Using RMS Window of 300 ms The noise performance of the mic pre is unknown. Graham Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#317
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Eeyore wrote: There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years. I consider the life of a cd player to be not counted in years but rather hours after haveing "good" cd players last less than 6 months on the road I gave up and buy the 10$ walmart specials now usually a new cd player for every gig or 3 |
#318
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... The real world of audio often uses mixers with proper metering. I can't say I've ever seen a real studio mixer without a metering bridge! Strange, Arny claims that 95% of desks don't have metering. Go figure. Phildo |
#319
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Marc Amsterdam" wrote in message course i mix by ear, i just dont set the gains by ear. How do you set the gain, when the console has no PFL metering? Do you really need to have that explained to you Arnold? Not checking your metering when mixing is like not checking the speedometer when driving, or altitude when flying, NOT a good idea! Agreed - providing of course that there is a PFL meter to check with. There is always a meter of sorts. Phildo |
#320
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Phildo" wrote in message "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... So you don't understand the difference between "metering" (as you originally stated) and a simple clip "indicator" then. Besides the clip indicators are channel indicators, nothing to do specifically with the PFL bus (as you stated) in any case. No but they are metering Nope, they are warning lights. Like it or not Arnold, they are a form of metering. I guess Phildo this means that you always shift your car by revving it up while waiting for the oil pressure light to come on. Having a clip light indicate while you are setting your channel gains is not going to damage anything Arnold. Of course you wouldn't know that because you have no idea how to set channel gains as proven by your claim you can set them by ear better than by using the meters. Phildo |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400 | Pro Audio | |||
Behringer C1 | Pro Audio | |||
Behringer UB2442FX Mixer Schematic/voltages Needed | Pro Audio | |||
Behringer does it !!! | Pro Audio | |||
BEHRINGER SHIPS THE Behringer V-AMPIRE LX1-112 | Pro Audio |