[[email protected]]

Hello all,

Looking for a 16x8 console to use with my 8-track. I have about $4000
to spend. Was interested in a Trident Trimix a fellow had for sale but
alas it was not within my budget. Would also be open to the Trident 65
but have not seen any available for sale.

I know 24/8 Ghosts (LE) can be had within that budget and will probably
be the unit I end up with. I also hear good things about the Soundtracs
Topaz Project 8 but these seem to be difficult to locate. Too bad the
Toft ATB is not available yet.

I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

I'm not sure where the seller is coming up with the 8 outs, all I see
is 16 channel faders...

Thoughts?

Best,
Chris

[RD Jones]

wrote:

Looking for a 16x8 console to use with my 8-track. I have about $4000
to spend. Was interested in a Trident Trimix a fellow had for sale but
alas it was not within my budget. Would also be open to the Trident 65
but have not seen any available for sale.

I know 24/8 Ghosts (LE) can be had within that budget and will probably
be the unit I end up with.

If you're considering a used Soundcraft, I'd also be looking at
the Venue/VenueII series. These are the 8 buss version of the
Delta chassis and many parts and modules are interchangable
between the Delta and Venue models. These are fully modular
"British made" mixers which was a factor in my search when I
purchased my Delta 8. The overwhelming majority of the Delta
models are the standard 4 buss, though. The Delta/Venues
don't have input transformers as standard but have a place on
the modules for them to be added if desired.

I also hear good things about the Soundtracs
Topaz Project 8 but these seem to be difficult to locate. Too bad the
Toft ATB is not available yet.

I wasn't impressed with the build quality of the Project 8 I looked at
....

I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

I'm not sure where the seller is coming up with the 8 outs, all I see
is 16 channel faders...

I believe the buss assigns are at the top of the strips and the outputs
are controlled at the upper right of the master section.


rd

[Mike Rivers]

wrote:

Looking for a 16x8 console to use with my 8-track. I have about $4000
to spend. Was interested in a Trident Trimix a fellow had for sale but
alas it was not within my budget. Would also be open to the Trident 65
but have not seen any available for sale.

The Toft ATB will be shipping "any day now" and it seems to be a very
good design, integrating what Malcolm Toft learned when he was
designing for Trident with what a modern small studio needs (and can
afford).

John Oram's Trident has a similar one which is advertised as shipping
now, but I'm not sure how far from Jolly Olde England they've landed.

[Ray Thomas]

We have one here in Australia, used in active service with ABC Classic FM
for orchestral broadcasts from Adelaide Town Hall. Good preamps, good
headroom, low noise
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

Looking for a 16x8 console to use with my 8-track. I have about $4000
to spend. Was interested in a Trident Trimix a fellow had for sale but
alas it was not within my budget. Would also be open to the Trident 65
but have not seen any available for sale.

The Toft ATB will be shipping "any day now" and it seems to be a very
good design, integrating what Malcolm Toft learned when he was
designing for Trident with what a modern small studio needs (and can
afford).

John Oram's Trident has a similar one which is advertised as shipping
now, but I'm not sure how far from Jolly Olde England they've landed.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
wrote:

Looking for a 16x8 console to use with my 8-track. I have about $4000
to spend. Was interested in a Trident Trimix a fellow had for sale but
alas it was not within my budget. Would also be open to the Trident 65
but have not seen any available for sale.

The Toft ATB will be shipping "any day now" and it seems to be a very
good design, integrating what Malcolm Toft learned when he was
designing for Trident with what a modern small studio needs (and can
afford).

This is the one Studio Projects is distributing? This is an interesting
thing... it's made offshore, fairly cheaply. The faders are the usual
sealed Asian types. BUT, the actual design is modular and you can pull
channel strips for maintenance. Electronic designs looks pretty good.
They do a lot of nice things like socket all the ICs, which you don't see
in disposable gear.

I don't think that this is the equivalent of the old Trimixes in terms of
rugged construction, but it's a step somewhere in-between the Mackie and
the old Trident in both price and build quality.

John Oram's Trident has a similar one which is advertised as shipping
now, but I'm not sure how far from Jolly Olde England they've landed.

I have not seen this. The older Oram eight-buss consoles also had good
sonics but much lighter-grade build quality than the old Tridents and
the like. For something in a home studio environment that might be a good
compromise.

The other consoles in this general sort of range that are made today are
mostly all-purpose consoles that aren't really designed for recording work,
like the low-end Crest and Midas consoles. So if you want something like
that, you're almost certainly going to have to look used. Call Boynton
Studios and see what they have on the floor.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Toft ATB will be shipping "any day now"
This is the one Studio Projects is distributing?

Yes. Designed by Malcolm Toft, bankrolled (as such) by PMI Audio. It's
a good match for both old and new school recording as the channel EQ
can be routed to the direct outputs, to the channel path to the
subgroup busses, then monitor path, or bypassed completely. There's
also provisions on the 16-channel board for 24-track monitoring.

John Oram's Trident has a similar one
I have not seen this.

You probably have. He had it at the last AES show in NYC. You have to
look at it twice to tell it from the Toft, but there are some
differences. I suspect that the two have a somewhat different
characteristic sound, and someone who has the opportunity to try
working with both will probably have a preference, but I don't see any
reason why either one wouldn't work out fine for small-medium sized
studio use.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
John Oram's Trident has a similar one
I have not seen this.

You probably have. He had it at the last AES show in NYC. You have to
look at it twice to tell it from the Toft, but there are some
differences. I suspect that the two have a somewhat different
characteristic sound, and someone who has the opportunity to try
working with both will probably have a preference, but I don't see any
reason why either one wouldn't work out fine for small-medium sized
studio use.

I meant to see it, but I didn't see it at the show. I need to check it
out at the SF show.

The way I feel about consoles these days is that for a lot of work,
ergonomics and build quality can be even more important than sound quality.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders. On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels? If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

wrote:
I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

[[email protected]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
The Toft ATB will be shipping "any day now"
This is the one Studio Projects is distributing?
Yes. Designed by Malcolm Toft, bankrolled (as such) by PMI Audio.
It's a good match for both old and new school recording as the
channel EQ can be routed to the direct outputs, to the channel path
to the subgroup busses, then monitor path, or bypassed completely.
There's also provisions on the 16-channel board for 24-track
monitoring.
Am watching this thread rather closely as I'm still
developing specs on our remote truck. I may have to leave
MEmphis to find what I"m looking for, really would rather go
a cut above the usual Mackie etc. for console, modular
construction a big factor.

John Oram's Trident has a similar one
I have not seen this.
You probably have. He had it at the last AES show in NYC. You have
to look at it twice to tell it from the Toft, but there are some
differences. I suspect that the two have a somewhat different
characteristic sound, and someone who has the opportunity to try
working with both will probably have a preference, but I don't see
any reason why either one wouldn't work out fine for small-medium
sized studio use.
Haven't seen either, but if there's a dealer in Nashville
that has in stock might make a run over that way to check
both out. What do you think about either of these for my
application Mike or SCott?



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[[email protected]]

On 2006-09-19 (ScottDorsey) said:
I suspect that the two have a somewhat different
characteristic sound, and someone who has the opportunity to try
working with both will probably have a preference, but I don't see
any reason why either one wouldn't work out fine for small-medium
sized studio use.
I meant to see it, but I didn't see it at the show. I need to
check it out at the SF show.
The way I feel about consoles these days is that for a lot of work,
ergonomics and build quality can be even more important than sound
quality. --scott
THat's why I'm going to be rather particular about the
console. Have thought about looking at the Alan & HEath
ml5000 (May have nomenclature wrong on that one) but really
want to get this one right, and buy something which I'll
like working on day in and day out for the next decade g.



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
- Derek Bok, 1978

[Mike Rivers]

wrote:
No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

People don't usually have comments about Speck consoles unless someone
asks about a specific one. Which one did you have in mind? They sound
good, they do what they're supposed to do, and most of the products
that they make do something a little differently than what everybody
else does, generally for a good reason, but not for everybody.

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders.

It's all what you get used to, and it depends on what you use the
submasters for. Some might like to have them out of the way since they
aren't controls that you're constantly adjusting except in certain
cases.

On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels?

It depends on the console. Usually there's a way to route the
submasters to the main left and right outputs, often through a pan pot.
But if you're using the submasters to feed things that don't ultimately
go to the main output, it's a control that you don't need, and that
might get in the way both physically and electrically. Takes all kinds.


If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

It depends on what you're doing. It's probably not an inconvenience in
tracking because if you use submasters at all, you set the level once
and leave it there. A lot of people don't use the submaters when mixing
in the studio, but they're handy in live sound. Takes all kinds.

I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

Oh, THAT Speck. Well, it's thirty years old, and remember, people did
things differently thirty years ago. The submasters were probably
intended to be connected to (or at least normalled at the patchbay to)
the inputs of an 8-track recorder. Since you'd only have eight tracks
to mix, who needs submasters?

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

I don't have any web access today. But I'll say that what you really
want is a LiLo. The problem with the LiLo is that it's expensive and
there aren't any used ones out there. When people get them, they keep
them.

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders. On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels? If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

Think of it as being a side-by-side console, with the righthand side
a little bit compacted.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roger Norman]

wrote:
I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

As far as the Speck on ebay is concerned, you can probably find out from
Vince more about the unit than you can from the seller. The problem I see
with that unit is the "this unit sold as is" statement, which means to me
that something doesn't work right. The good thing is that Vince is a good
guy to work with and would probably lend a hand at refurbing the unit for a
reasonable price.

But for your purposes Scott is right. The LiLo was a unit developed by
specifications Vince got from this group about 6 years ago. It's not cheap,
but you can believe it is good. Think of it as the first real mixing out of
the digital box analog system design for those who don't use a console on
the front end.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
"Is our children learning yet?" George W. Bush
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/


wrote in message
ups.com...
No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders. On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels? If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

wrote:
I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

[Roger Norman]

Oops, there's also the serious consideration that we are talking about
barrier strip wiring, so plumbing the system to fit your needs will be a
pain in the ass.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
"Is our children learning yet?" George W. Bush
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/


wrote in message
ups.com...
No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders. On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels? If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

wrote:
I noticed upon this Speck and was wondering if it would be worth a
shot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160031037828

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

fazeka wrote:
No one has any comments about this Speck, then?

I don't have any web access today. But I'll say that what you really
want is a LiLo. The problem with the LiLo is that it's expensive and
there aren't any used ones out there. When people get them, they keep
them.

Does it matter that the submaster output controls are located on the
upper right of the console? I find it somewhat inconvenient myself as I
am more accustomed to having them as faders to the right (or left) of
the channel faders. On most consoles, isn't there more to the submaster
controls than just having output levels? If so, would this lack of
features/controls be an inconvenience when using this console for
tracking/mixing?

Think of it as being a side-by-side console, with the righthand side
a little bit compacted.
--scott

I took a quick look yesterday. Looks like a solidly built,
straightforwardly laid out board. The main questions revolve around its
age and the condition of its control components, power supply, etc. But
it also appeared to be reasonably easily maintainable, and I'd bet Vince
would be helpful with information, and pointers to parts sources.

Yesterday it handn't been bid up to its reserve. Without knowing the
reserve, this thing might go for a small fraction of the cost of the
newer and preferable LiLo model.

As for layout, a board's a board; they all have their quirks; you learn
to deal.

--
ha

[Scott Fraser]

I took a quick look yesterday. Looks like a solidly built,
straightforwardly laid out board. The main questions revolve around its

age and the condition of its control components, power supply, etc. But

it also appeared to be reasonably easily maintainable, and I'd bet
Vince
would be helpful with information, and pointers to parts sources.

Vince will probably give you a pretty good opinion as to whether it was
any good or not. I did some sessions on one of these in the 1970s, &
even though I didn't have a wealth of experience at the time, I found
this Speck pretty underwhelming. You can crank & crank on the EQ &
never get where you need to go. I can't remember much else about it, so
check with Vince.

Scott Fraser