The Devil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:33:17 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.


Trouble in paradise, Dev?


Not at all. If these speakers really do stack up against the 1.6s, I
would be inclined to think that was a genuinely magnificent
achievement on the part of Madisound. And to think that they
accomplished that sort of performance for just $400. Marvelous!


Horse**** opinion duly noted.

The Devil wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:49:40 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


Magnapan MMGs and 1.6s.

Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.


Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?


Dev, aren't you deviating from your "ignorance is bliss" mantra?

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:07:51 +0100, The Devil wrote:

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:49:40 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Magnapan MMGs and 1.6s.

Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.

It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.

--
td

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


The Devil wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:58:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:43:45 GMT, trotsky wrote:



I can smell the alcoholic haze from here.


I bet it costs more to get this ****ed than you'll be making from your
Madisound kits, mommy's boy.



At least you agreed with me that you're (a) drunk.


At this exact moment I am not, but I have been known to imbibe, oh
yes. 'Drunk' depends on how much I have consumed, of course, but I
will confirm that I am indeed susceptible to the effects of alcohol.


Not good enough. Have you or have you not been treated for alcoholism?
This is the court of public opinion, and I'm calling your credibility
into question. Take as much time as you need to answer.

In the court of public opinion, you've already been convicted of fraud and
perjury. **** off.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:30:32 GMT, trotsky wrote:

Dev,

Excuse me. I'm just designing a special beverage. It's made from
coffee beans. I have orchestrated a plan to roast the beans, grind
them up and introduce the resulting brown powder to a device I came
across that's called a 'coffee maker'. This is a dumb mother****ing
name for a device that doesn't make coffee--the coffee is made in
Columbia--but we just won't go there. I'll just say I'm afraid I have
some bad news for you if you believe what Krups say on their website,
and leave it at that.

I did a week of research at the supermarkets but, dissatisfied with
what was on offer, I just had to say 'ho-hum' and settle on some green
unroasted beans I already had in my possession. I ma'de a mistake at
first. I tried to roast the beans in my clothe's dryer, but when I
read the instruction booklet that came with my Hearthware coffee
roaster, I realised the writing was different to the writing in the
instruction book for my Hotpoint clothes dryer. Duh!

--
Thine Boobie Orchestra (Stainless Steel Remix).

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:25:44 +0100, The Devil wrote:

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense.

This might have seemed confusing to some (Dev seemed tto know what I
meant but...). It was confusing to me when I read it back...

Even though *they* go a little deeper actually refers to the Maggies.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:34:12 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:25:44 +0100, The Devil wrote:

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense.

This might have seemed confusing to some (Dev seemed tto know what I
meant but...). It was confusing to me when I read it back...

Even though *they* go a little deeper actually refers to the Maggies.

I understood what you meant.

--
td

The Devil wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.


It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.



Will it take an MD to get that foot out of your mouth, Dev?

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:03:21 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.


It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.



Will it take an MD to get that foot out of your mouth, Dev?

Why would you say this, Greg? He genuinely wanted to know how I
prefered the Europas over the 1.6s. He didn't diss me or call me crazy
or confused, like certain people have.

I notice that *you* should probably remove your foot from *your* mouth
now that you are falling all over yourself to align yourself with me
again...

Of course, it looks like he might actually build one of your speakers
for two or three hundred dollars...or a little more if he uses an even
more robust PVC pipe...

Michael Mckelvy wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


The Devil wrote:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:58:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:


On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:43:45 GMT, trotsky wrote:




I can smell the alcoholic haze from here.


I bet it costs more to get this ****ed than you'll be making from your
Madisound kits, mommy's boy.



At least you agreed with me that you're (a) drunk.


At this exact moment I am not, but I have been known to imbibe, oh
yes. 'Drunk' depends on how much I have consumed, of course, but I
will confirm that I am indeed susceptible to the effects of alcohol.


Not good enough. Have you or have you not been treated for alcoholism?
This is the court of public opinion, and I'm calling your credibility
into question. Take as much time as you need to answer.


In the court of public opinion, you've already been convicted of fraud and
perjury. **** off.


Score!

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:30:32 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Dev,


Excuse me. I'm just designing a special beverage.


I wish you nimrods would admit when you've stuck your feet so far in
your mouths that they are now sticking out your arses. I know, if
wishes were horses...

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:12:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:30:32 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Dev,


Excuse me. I'm just designing a special beverage.


I wish you nimrods would admit when you've stuck your feet so far in
your mouths that they are now sticking out your arses. I know, if
wishes were horses...

Why are you quoting Bryan Adams? Have you sunk *that* low?

dave weil said to Gregipus:

Why are you quoting Bryan Adams? Have you sunk *that* low?

Sometimes you just can't get a guy out of your mind.

dave weil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:03:21 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.


It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.



Will it take an MD to get that foot out of your mouth, Dev?


Why would you say this, Greg?


Why would you ask this, dave? The ****er claimed I didn't do any
serious designing, and lied by saying I was using "kits" from Madisound.
Thankfully, you decided to go the high road and tell the truth, but
that doesn't mean that "Devil" doesn't deserve to be figuratively beaten
with a stick over and over and over again. Then when he all bloody
about the head and shoulders, you give him a couple kicks in the groin,
or words to that effect. The way the game is played is you take the guy
that has somehow managed to position himself at the top of the food
chain and make a thorough example of him. I've done this several times
with "Devil", and he's left the group "permanently" each time. You'd
think he'd have learned the first time, but no.


He genuinely wanted to know how I
prefered the Europas over the 1.6s. He didn't diss me or call me crazy
or confused, like certain people have.


I *never* denounced your opinions, just your ability to communicate
them. I kind of got the impression you liked the speakers, but after
the "first three" parts of you review most of the guys on the group got
the impression you thought they were a joke. "Devil" was one of the
last to chime in, but still deserves to be verbally abused the most.


I notice that *you* should probably remove your foot from *your* mouth
now that you are falling all over yourself to align yourself with me
again...


I haven't changed my stance one iota. You are free to like or dislike
the speakers as you see fit--it's up to you to be open minded about what
good sound is, unless like the rest of the worthless *******s on this
group. I put you in a position to say something that everybody had to
prick up their ears and take notice of, all at my expense. To be
honest, I don't know why you don't show me more gratitude.


Of course, it looks like he might actually build one of your speakers
for two or three hundred dollars...or a little more if he uses an even
more robust PVC pipe...


That's how life works--some guys are always stuck in the following
position. BTW, could you explain what a "more robust PVC pipe" means?
I think your communication skills are breaking down again. I have yet
to see you say something about how truly excellent the build quality of
the Europas is.

dave weil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:12:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:30:32 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Dev,


Excuse me. I'm just designing a special beverage.


I wish you nimrods would admit when you've stuck your feet so far in
your mouths that they are now sticking out your arses. I know, if
wishes were horses...


Why are you quoting Bryan Adams? Have you sunk *that* low?


Bryan Adams originated that expression? Who knew?

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:55:56 GMT, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:



dave weil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:03:21 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.


It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.



Will it take an MD to get that foot out of your mouth, Dev?


Why would you say this, Greg?


Why would you ask this, dave? The ****er claimed I didn't do any
serious designing, and lied by saying I was using "kits" from Madisound.

Frankly, I took your comment as referring to the fact that he was
surprised that I'd favorably compare your speaker to the 1.6, SINCE
THAT'S WHAT YOU RESPONDED TO.

Thankfully, you decided to go the high road and tell the truth,

Unless I'm poking at someone, I do.

but that doesn't mean that "Devil" doesn't deserve to be figuratively beaten
with a stick over and over and over again. Then when he all bloody
about the head and shoulders, you give him a couple kicks in the groin,
or words to that effect.

No I didn't. I simply told him my impressions. I'm sure that he was
surprised that I compared them favorably with the 1.6s and he asked
for clarification. I gave it to him.

The way the game is played is you take the guy
that has somehow managed to position himself at the top of the food
chain and make a thorough example of him. I've done this several times
with "Devil", and he's left the group "permanently" each time. You'd
think he'd have learned the first time, but no.


He genuinely wanted to know how I
prefered the Europas over the 1.6s. He didn't diss me or call me crazy
or confused, like certain people have.


I *never* denounced your opinions, just your ability to communicate
them.

Unfortunately, you never let me wrap them up. Yeah, it was *my*
mistake for trying to be far more thorough than you'd find in a 500
word review. It was my mistake for trying not to take the standard
magazine template and doing a half-assed job of description...

I kind of got the impression you liked the speakers, but after
the "first three" parts of you review most of the guys on the group got
the impression you thought they were a joke.

C'mon Greg, the only ones chiming in were the very people who had been
harassing you since BEFORE you sent me the speakers. And they were
going to harass you EVEN MORE if i had proclaimed them the best thing
since sliced bread, because they hate me as well.

Besides, I don't think anyone has accused me of "thinking they were a
joke". You're pretty confused at this point. If anything, I got the
impression that they thought I was kow-towing to you.

"Devil" was one of the last to chime in, but still deserves to be verbally abused the most.


I notice that *you* should probably remove your foot from *your* mouth
now that you are falling all over yourself to align yourself with me
again...


I haven't changed my stance one iota. You are free to like or dislike
the speakers as you see fit--it's up to you to be open minded about what
good sound is, unless like the rest of the worthless *******s on this
group. I put you in a position to say something that everybody had to
prick up their ears and take notice of, all at my expense. To be
honest, I don't know why you don't show me more gratitude.

Why should *I* be grateful? I was doing *you* a favor.

I was being totally fair with my evaluation and it was *me* who was
putting myself in the position of being attacked from all sides.

Of course, it looks like he might actually build one of your speakers
for two or three hundred dollars...or a little more if he uses an even
more robust PVC pipe...


That's how life works--some guys are always stuck in the following
position. BTW, could you explain what a "more robust PVC pipe" means?

It means a joke. I know that your sense of humor fails you when you're
the subject, but, oh well...

I think your communication skills are breaking down again. I have yet
to see you say something about how truly excellent the build quality of
the Europas is.

There's not much to comment on. I can't comment on the finish very
much, since it was a cabinet painted black. I already mentioned that
the grain seemed matched, but black paint covers up a lot, doesn't it?
There were no obvious glue globs or poorly matched seams, but that's
nothing extraordinary. Having stuffing coming out of the port ws a bit
disconcerting, in terms of build quality though. I think I commented
already on the fact that you lined up your screws properly. Beyond
that, I'm not sure what else can be said about the "build quality".

trotsky wrote:

That's how life works--some guys are always stuck in the following
position. BTW, could you explain what a "more robust PVC pipe" means? I
think your communication skills are breaking down again. I have yet to
see you say something about how truly excellent the build quality of the
Europas is.

You know, Davew, you never did go into build quality.

Maybe you should.

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:43:15 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:

You're not Marc or Art. But if you showed up on my door, I
would show you some hospitality. Even if I still had to tell you
things you don't like hearing - like the truth or my opinion.

Two mutually exclusive things, right?

Not at all. If we are engaging in conversation am I restricted
opinions you support? Boring.

Seriously, I doubt that you'd have the discourtesy to "tell me things
I don't like hearing". I'm quite sure that you're far more puffed up
here than you are in real life.

Puffed up? Why do I need to be puffed up? If your trying to imply
that I would have something to fear from your reaction to my comments
in a face to face encounter and should therefore "restrain" myself,
that says more about your irrational response and inability to
maintain that it does me. Though I suspect the most I risk is you
leaving disappointed and unhappy that I refused to accept your points
of view. Not much to lose IMO.

ScottW

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:43:15 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:

If you don't think that I could walk into a Best Buy or Circuit
City
and find *anything* that was as pleasing as the Europas, I
think
you're just nuts. That's a whole range of stuff, right?

Hmmm..... So Best Buy and Circuit City have competitive stuff.
I'm sure you just made Trots day.

Is there any reason for you to be deceptive?

It is your writing. Do you stand by your actual words are do you
want us to decipher your intended meaning? Personally, I would prefer
you actually wrote what you meant so we wouldn't have to obfuscate
about what we think you mean.

ScottW

On 10 Oct 2003 13:00:07 -0700, (ScottW) wrote:

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:43:15 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:

You're not Marc or Art. But if you showed up on my door, I
would show you some hospitality. Even if I still had to tell you
things you don't like hearing - like the truth or my opinion.

Two mutually exclusive things, right?

Not at all. If we are engaging in conversation am I restricted
opinions you support? Boring.

Talk about boring. I make a joke based on something you said and you
then expound on it as if it were a statement of fact. *That's* boring!

Seriously, I doubt that you'd have the discourtesy to "tell me things
I don't like hearing". I'm quite sure that you're far more puffed up
here than you are in real life.

Puffed up? Why do I need to be puffed up?

Ya got me...

If your trying to imply
that I would have something to fear from your reaction to my comments
in a face to face encounter and should therefore "restrain" myself,
that says more about your irrational response and inability to
maintain that it does me.

What it says about you is that you have a bizarre way of reading
things. Therefore, I wouldn't be interested in sitting and talking to
you for more than about 30 seconds, because I'd be afraid that you
couldn't even have a civil (or lucid) conversation.

Though I suspect the most I risk is you
leaving disappointed and unhappy that I refused to accept your points
of view. Not much to lose IMO.

I suspect that you aren't much of a host if you're going to get all
bent out of shape challenging your guests' views. I doubt that you do
it to Art and Marc...

You really *are* a snitty person, you know. I just hope you aren't
that way in person...

trotsky wrote in message ...
The Devil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:33:17 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.


Trouble in paradise, Dev?


Not at all. If these speakers really do stack up against the 1.6s, I
would be inclined to think that was a genuinely magnificent
achievement on the part of Madisound. And to think that they
accomplished that sort of performance for just $400. Marvelous!


Horse**** opinion duly noted.

So Greg, what do you think of Dave's list of inferior speakers?
One nonspecific Dynaudio model, Maggie 1.6's and a few far less
expensive retail price models. Should we ask for the opposite side of
the coin, a list of superior speakers?

Then there is this statement which I paste here for you to interpret:

Dave says, "If you don't think that I could walk into a Best Buy or
Circuit City
and find *anything* that was as pleasing as the Europas, I think
you're just nuts. That's a whole range of stuff, right?"

What do you think Dave is trying to say about your speakers?

ScottW

George M. Middius wrote:

dave weil said to Gregipus:


Why are you quoting Bryan Adams? Have you sunk *that* low?


Sometimes you just can't get a guy out of your mind.



How romantic.

trotsky said:

Why are you quoting Bryan Adams? Have you sunk *that* low?

Sometimes you just can't get a guy out of your mind.

How romantic.

You're revolting when you talk about yourself. But at least you're
beginning to emerge from the closet.

dave weil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:55:56 GMT, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:03:21 GMT, trotsky wrote:



The Devil wrote:


On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:54:52 -0500, dave weil
wrote:




Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.

Nope. I meant to say that model.

Interesting. What do the Madisound speakers do better than the 1.6s?

I liked the bass better on the Europas, believe it or not. Even though
they go a little deeper, the Europas seems a little more "palpable",
if that makes any sense. The Maggies seemed a little leaner (there's
that word again). The Europas seemed a little Punchier within their
range. The other thing that has always disturbed me a little about
Maggies of all stripes is the slightly larger-than-life soundstage
that they generally offer.

Note that saying that the Europas seemed a little more "right" to me
doesn't disparage the Maggie 1.6s, although I'll say that the MMGs are
certainly not nearly as good because they've always seems anemic to
me.

hope this makes sense.


It does. And I share your feelings about the MMG. Thanks.



Will it take an MD to get that foot out of your mouth, Dev?


Why would you say this, Greg?


Why would you ask this, dave? The ****er claimed I didn't do any
serious designing, and lied by saying I was using "kits" from Madisound.


Frankly, I took your comment as referring to the fact that he was
surprised that I'd favorably compare your speaker to the 1.6, SINCE
THAT'S WHAT YOU RESPONDED TO.


dave, he L I E D about the speakers, calling them "Madisound kits."
Why are you sticking up for the ****ing *******?


Thankfully, you decided to go the high road and tell the truth,


Unless I'm poking at someone, I do.


but that doesn't mean that "Devil" doesn't deserve to be figuratively beaten
with a stick over and over and over again. Then when he's all bloody
about the head and shoulders, you give him a couple kicks in the groin,
or words to that effect.


No I didn't.


I wasn't speaking about you specifically, I was outlining instructions
on how he deserves to be treated for his behavior in this matter.


I simply told him my impressions. I'm sure that he was
surprised that I compared them favorably with the 1.6s and he asked
for clarification. I gave it to him.


See above.


The way the game is played is you take the guy
that has somehow managed to position himself at the top of the food
chain and make a thorough example of him. I've done this several times
with "Devil", and he's left the group "permanently" each time. You'd
think he'd have learned the first time, but no.


He genuinely wanted to know how I

prefered the Europas over the 1.6s. He didn't diss me or call me crazy
or confused, like certain people have.


I *never* denounced your opinions, just your ability to communicate
them.


Unfortunately, you never let me wrap them up.


That's a lie and you know it. I never told you to send them back at
that point in time.



Yeah, it was *my*
mistake for trying to be far more thorough than you'd find in a 500
word review. It was my mistake for trying not to take the standard
magazine template and doing a half-assed job of description...


I did find your description inadequate, on several key points.


I kind of got the impression you liked the speakers, but after
the "first three" parts of you review most of the guys on the group got
the impression you thought they were a joke.


C'mon Greg, the only ones chiming in were the very people who had been
harassing you since BEFORE you sent me the speakers. And they were
going to harass you EVEN MORE if i had proclaimed them the best thing
since sliced bread, because they hate me as well.


I don't think that's an accurate description of what happened. Middius
could provide one, because he hangs on every word (no pun intended), but
I think he's way too far gone to be unbiased here.


Besides, I don't think anyone has accused me of "thinking they were a
joke". You're pretty confused at this point. If anything, I got the
impression that they thought I was kow-towing to you.


dave, please. If we took some college placement test for reading
comprehension, my score would be at least 20% higher than yours. You
are able to write sentences pretty well, but I don't think you can pick
up on some of the nuances contained in what's being said. Just my
opinion, of course.


"Devil" was one of the last to chime in, but still deserves to be verbally abused the most.



I notice that *you* should probably remove your foot from *your* mouth
now that you are falling all over yourself to align yourself with me
again...


I haven't changed my stance one iota. You are free to like or dislike
the speakers as you see fit--it's up to you to be open minded about what
good sound is, unless like the rest of the worthless *******s on this
group. I put you in a position to say something that everybody had to
prick up their ears and take notice of, all at my expense. To be
honest, I don't know why you don't show me more gratitude.


Why should *I* be grateful? I was doing *you* a favor.

I was being totally fair with my evaluation and it was *me* who was
putting myself in the position of being attacked from all sides.


dave, now you're in the realm of being a horse's ass. You're claiming
that YOU were attacked? And you're saying this to me? We've already
been over this, buddy: we're probably pushing 3000 "Lord of the Flies"
type posts, all directed at ME. I don't see how you can be this clueless.


Of course, it looks like he might actually build one of your speakers
for two or three hundred dollars...or a little more if he uses an even
more robust PVC pipe...


That's how life works--some guys are always stuck in the following
position. BTW, could you explain what a "more robust PVC pipe" means?


It means a joke. I know that your sense of humor fails you when you're
the subject, but, oh well...


The joke's on you, dave. You were *woefully* inadequate in discussing
the excellent construction quality of the speaker, particularly given
its modest price.


I think your communication skills are breaking down again. I have yet
to see you say something about how truly excellent the build quality of
the Europas is.


There's not much to comment on. I can't comment on the finish very
much, since it was a cabinet painted black. I already mentioned that
the grain seemed matched, but black paint covers up a lot, doesn't it?
There were no obvious glue globs or poorly matched seams, but that's
nothing extraordinary. Having stuffing coming out of the port ws a bit
disconcerting, in terms of build quality though. I think I commented
already on the fact that you lined up your screws properly. Beyond
that, I'm not sure what else can be said about the "build quality".


I see. There is no excuse for the stuffing coming out, btw.
Thankfully, I've come across the joys of spray glue, so I'm reasonably
sure this won't happen again. You must've been playing them pretty loud
for that to happen, but there's nothing wrong with that.

That said, compared to the Cornwalls, which are plain birch plywood
cabinets that look as if they've been finished in a high school wood
shop, the Europas stack up pretty well. I haven't seen Merlins in a
long time, but I would imagine for the price the *finish* is better than
mine, but not the cabinet quality. The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool when
you rap your knuckles on them. Also, although that pair, a prototype,
doesn't look quite as good as subsequent pairs, the black lacquer finish
isn't very common in audio, and you disparage it by simply calling it
"black paint."

trotsky said to dave:

I did find your description inadequate, on several key points.

Gee, dave, did Greg give you some previously undisclosed instructions
on how to make your description adequate? There certainly weren't any
posted on Group.

OTOH, maybe Greg is just baiting Krooger here. After all, the cover
story is that you volunteered to evaluate the speakers, to the best of
your ability, with no expectation of compensation. Only Krooger
imagined that you were actually shilling. Greg's accusation that your
shilling was "inadequate" will only feed Turdborg's paranoia.


C'mon Greg, the only ones chiming in were the very people who had been
harassing you since BEFORE you sent me the speakers. And they were
going to harass you EVEN MORE if i had proclaimed them the best thing
since sliced bread, because they hate me as well.

I don't think that's an accurate description of what happened. Middius
could provide one, because he hangs on every word (no pun intended), but
I think he's way too far gone to be unbiased here.

You want me to provide "an accurate description"? OK, here it is: dave
volunteered to try out the speakers and post his opinions. You sent
dave the speakers. He played around with them and played a lot of
different music through them. He started -- but did not finish --
posting his impressions and opinions. Before he could finish, you
attacked him with your usual loony accusations and imperious
chest-thumping. dave then terminated his efforts on your behalf
because of your unpleasantness, and told you to have the speakers
picked up.

Others see the events here the same way. Few will say so to your face,
though, because there's no upside to arguing with you. As Bobo
observed, you're as impossible as Krooger is when it comes to rational
conversations.


dave, please. If we took some college placement test for reading
comprehension, my score would be at least 20% higher than yours.

And yet you're the one everyone thinks is crazy. Ironic, ain't it?

How about you both take some online IQ test. dave will give his true
score and you can inflate yours by 20%. That's fair, isn't it?

Why should *I* be grateful? I was doing *you* a favor.

I was being totally fair with my evaluation and it was *me* who was
putting myself in the position of being attacked from all sides.

dave, now you're in the realm of being a horse's ass. You're claiming
that YOU were attacked? And you're saying this to me? We've already
been over this, buddy: we're probably pushing 3000 "Lord of the Flies"
type posts, all directed at ME. I don't see how you can be this clueless.

Why did you ask my opinion? Oh well, too late for second thoughts.

Of course you attacked him. And the reason you gave was that you
didn't like his review of your kit-built speakers. This is a fact. Go
suck a douchebag.


The joke's on you, dave. You were *woefully* inadequate in discussing
the excellent construction quality of the speaker, particularly given
its modest price.

Aha! The secret instructions for the review. What else didn't you tell
dave that you would require after the fact?


BTW, since you brought up movies, do you remember this little lecture?

"You've pointed out, numerous times, your opinion of Ian's character.
You've also lobbed insults at him in countless posts. One would think
that you could manage to refrain from personal attacks in *one* post
in the hopes of appearing unbiased, but you can't even manage that."

"I don't have a problem with his writing, but I do have a problem with
your "criticisms" of it. I also had a problem how you kept making new
posts attempting to flaunt your "unchallenged" post, acting like a
four year old bouncing up and down, screaming for attention."


Astonishing how you provoke the same reactions in people on other
groups as on RAO, isn't it? Considering how smart and literate and
well-informed you are, I mean.

ScottW wrote:
trotsky wrote in message ...

The Devil wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:33:17 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.



Trouble in paradise, Dev?


Not at all. If these speakers really do stack up against the 1.6s, I
would be inclined to think that was a genuinely magnificent
achievement on the part of Madisound. And to think that they
accomplished that sort of performance for just $400. Marvelous!


Horse**** opinion duly noted.


So Greg, what do you think of Dave's list of inferior speakers?


My speakers are very good, and dave has finally gotten around to making
that clear.


One nonspecific Dynaudio model, Maggie 1.6's and a few far less
expensive retail price models. Should we ask for the opposite side of
the coin, a list of superior speakers?


That will be a lot harder. dave's essentially going about it the right
way, compiling a balance sheet in his head of speakers' relative
strengths and weaknesses. It's easier to dismiss the ones that don't
make the grade than it is to say which ones do enough things as good or
better to make it a better speaker than the one you already like. (I'm
assuming using the word "like" isn't too presumptuous.)


Then there is this statement which I paste here for you to interpret:

Dave says, "If you don't think that I could walk into a Best Buy or
Circuit City
and find *anything* that was as pleasing as the Europas, I think
you're just nuts. That's a whole range of stuff, right?"

What do you think Dave is trying to say about your speakers?


No idea. Sometimes dave's thoughts are clear and sometimes they're not.
Strength and weaknesses--catch the wave. I'm still trying to figure
out a single thing that's good about your posts, for example.

Le Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:56:05 GMT, trotsky ,
a écrit :

Ok Dave I have been a bad boy but please tell them that my speakers
are the best you've never heard.
Please Dave I will never say again that you are a crappy poet !
Dave you know all this happens because they are nasty boys. They was
sending me about 3000 mails a day, I have exploded my Google score but
I was so nervous...
Dave if you pardon me I say that your Cornwalls are nearly as good as
my Europa.
Dave I will take my medecament every day I will be more quiet but
please make nice phrases, verses and rimes.
Dave please be my herald.

In article , trotsky
wrote:

The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool when
you rap your knuckles on them.

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Stephen

MiNE 109 wrote:
In article , trotsky wrote:


The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool when
you rap your knuckles on them.


Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.


Was that in the abstract, or can you actually name some specific models?

In article , trotsky
wrote:

MiNE 109 wrote:
In article , trotsky wrote:


The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool when
you rap your knuckles on them.


Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.


Was that in the abstract, or can you actually name some specific models?

Vandersteen, Quad, Maggies, ML, Cornwalls.

Just kidding about that last one, although I've enjoyed LaScalas.

Stephen

Le Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:36:45 GMT, trotsky ,
a écrit :



MiNE 109 wrote:
In article , trotsky wrote:


The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool when
you rap your knuckles on them.


Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.


Was that in the abstract, or can you actually name some specific models?


Have you note that Dave Weil doesn't sound good when you rap him on
the knuckles ?
Can we deduct that he is not the best listener in the world ? ;-)

MiNE 109 said:

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Any good speaker should recoil in horror at the thought of
reproducing rap.

"MiNE 109" wrote in message

In article , trotsky
wrote:

The Europas have a solid, good
sounding cabinet that passes the audiophile test: they sound cool
when you rap your knuckles on them.

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Then they aren't the best speakers in the world for people who play rap.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message


MiNE 109 said:

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Any good speaker should recoil in horror at the thought of
reproducing rap.

Maryland contributed quite a bit to the Confederacy, didn't it?

Le Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:00:47 -0400, George M. Middius
,
a écrit :



MiNE 109 said:

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Any good speaker should recoil in horror at the thought of
reproducing rap.

I note that this one is good.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George M. Middius" wrote in message


MiNE 109 said:

Some of the best speakers in the world fail the rap test miserably.

Any good speaker should recoil in horror at the thought of
reproducing rap.

Maryland contributed quite a bit to the Confederacy, didn't it?



Though technically in the Union, it was split pretty close down the middle.
Southern Maryland (tocacco growing country) tilted quite heavily to the
south.
This is from mid Prince George's County on south and east.

The north and west was highly favorable to the Union, example, Barbara
Fritchie of Frederick.

There is a border between two basic soils types that runs just about where
US Route 1 and the B&O, now CSX tracks run. To the north and west is
suitable for corn, beans etc. The soil to the south and east is best for
tobacco.
So, southern Maryland and the Eastern shore were more akin to Virginia and
North Carolina, economically and socially.

Remeber that Mary Surratt housed, and maybe Dr. Mudd treated, John Wilkes
Booth in Clinton, in Southern Prince George's County.

The County seat is named Upper Marlboro, and the cigarette is named after
the town.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

George M. Middius wrote:


trotsky said to dave:

I did find your description inadequate, on several key points.

Gee, dave, did Greg give you some previously undisclosed instructions
on how to make your description adequate? There certainly weren't any
posted on Group.

OTOH, maybe Greg is just baiting Krooger here. After all, the cover
story is that you volunteered to evaluate the speakers, to the best of
your ability, with no expectation of compensation. Only Krooger
imagined that you were actually shilling. Greg's accusation that your
shilling was "inadequate" will only feed Turdborg's paranoia.



C-l-K's latest paranoid conspiracy theory apparently is based on the belief
that Singh is paying off folks with Jupiter Audio stock in return for favorable
reviews - of both his mental status and his speakers.e
Krueger now wants some of this stock as a backup substitute in case he runs out
of $ 1000 bills for wiping his main communication device.

C'mon Greg, the only ones chiming in were the very people who had been
harassing you since BEFORE you sent me the speakers. And they were
going to harass you EVEN MORE if i had proclaimed them the best thing
since sliced bread, because they hate me as well.

I don't think that's an accurate description of what happened. Middius
could provide one, because he hangs on every word (no pun intended), but
I think he's way too far gone to be unbiased here.

You want me to provide "an accurate description"? OK, here it is: dave
volunteered to try out the speakers and post his opinions. You sent
dave the speakers. He played around with them and played a lot of
different music through them. He started -- but did not finish --
posting his impressions and opinions. Before he could finish, you
attacked him with your usual loony accusations and imperious
chest-thumping. dave then terminated his efforts on your behalf
because of your unpleasantness, and told you to have the speakers
picked up.

Others see the events here the same way. Few will say so to your face,
though, because there's no upside to arguing with you. As Bobo
observed, you're as impossible as Krooger is when it comes to rational
conversations.


Agreed. But they sure do understand and empathize with each other. Perhaps
some inbreeding is involved.


dave, please. If we took some college placement test for reading
comprehension, my score would be at least 20% higher than yours.

And yet you're the one everyone thinks is crazy. Ironic, ain't it?

How about you both take some online IQ test. dave will give his true
score and you can inflate yours by 20%. That's fair, isn't it?





Why should *I* be grateful? I was doing *you* a favor.

I was being totally fair with my evaluation and it was *me* who was
putting myself in the position of being attacked from all sides.

dave, now you're in the realm of being a horse's ass. You're claiming
that YOU were attacked? And you're saying this to me? We've already
been over this, buddy: we're probably pushing 3000 "Lord of the Flies"
type posts, all directed at ME. I don't see how you can be this clueless.

Why did you ask my opinion? Oh well, too late for second thoughts.

Of course you attacked him. And the reason you gave was that you
didn't like his review of your kit-built speakers. This is a fact. Go
suck a douchebag.


The joke's on you, dave. You were *woefully* inadequate in discussing
the excellent construction quality of the speaker, particularly given
its modest price.

Aha! The secret instructions for the review. What else didn't you tell
dave that you would require after the fact?


BTW, since you brought up movies, do you remember this little lecture?

"You've pointed out, numerous times, your opinion of Ian's character.
You've also lobbed insults at him in countless posts. One would think
that you could manage to refrain from personal attacks in *one* post
in the hopes of appearing unbiased, but you can't even manage that."

"I don't have a problem with his writing, but I do have a problem with
your "criticisms" of it. I also had a problem how you kept making new
posts attempting to flaunt your "unchallenged" post, acting like a
four year old bouncing up and down, screaming for attention."


Astonishing how you provoke the same reactions in people on other
groups as on RAO, isn't it? Considering how smart and literate and
well-informed you are, I mean.













Bruce J. Richman

On 10 Oct 2003 13:08:43 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:43:15 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:

If you don't think that I could walk into a Best Buy or Circuit
City
and find *anything* that was as pleasing as the Europas, I
think
you're just nuts. That's a whole range of stuff, right?

Hmmm..... So Best Buy and Circuit City have competitive stuff.
I'm sure you just made Trots day.

Is there any reason for you to be deceptive?

It is your writing. Do you stand by your actual words are do you
want us to decipher your intended meaning? Personally, I would prefer
you actually wrote what you meant so we wouldn't have to obfuscate
about what we think you mean.

ScottW

I'm sorry, you're correct. I wrote "don't think" when I meant "think".

My apologies. Totally my fault. I didn't catch it until I reread it
just now.

On 10 Oct 2003 13:20:47 -0700, (ScottW) wrote:

trotsky wrote in message ...
The Devil wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:33:17 GMT, trotsky wrote:


Are you sure about the 1.6s? I would be genuinely amazed if you
actually meant to say that model.


Trouble in paradise, Dev?


Not at all. If these speakers really do stack up against the 1.6s, I
would be inclined to think that was a genuinely magnificent
achievement on the part of Madisound. And to think that they
accomplished that sort of performance for just $400. Marvelous!


Horse**** opinion duly noted.

So Greg, what do you think of Dave's list of inferior speakers?
One nonspecific Dynaudio model, Maggie 1.6's and a few far less
expensive retail price models. Should we ask for the opposite side of
the coin, a list of superior speakers?

Then there is this statement which I paste here for you to interpret:

Dave says, "If you don't think that I could walk into a Best Buy or
Circuit City
and find *anything* that was as pleasing as the Europas, I think
you're just nuts. That's a whole range of stuff, right?"

What do you think Dave is trying to say about your speakers?

As I said earlier, I misspoke.