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#1
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#2
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why are salesmen such idiots?
SEVEN SEVILLE wrote:
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? Kenwood makes a whole line of good MP3 capable players without satellite radio. They work very well in fact. |
#3
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why are salesmen such idiots?
"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Hmm, interestin thing about compression. I understand you're not interested in XM, but I have to "rant." I picked up my XM radio a year or so ago. It was Alpine's XMA-T200RF unit. It came with an FM modulator to make it co-exist with stock systems easier. I, too, could hear the compression artifacts. I believe some stations are dynamically allocated bandwidth and suffer from compression less. Anyways, I decided to crack open the XM receiver and tap into the line outputs (that go to the modulator) and run them to my stereo. It could be a placebo effect, but it sounded better. Going direct got rid of the FM bandwidth limitations. Again, this could be purely subjective, but I didn't notice the compression artifacts as much. Just my two quid, -Tim Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#4
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why are salesmen such idiots?
You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in
my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will play MP3's. MP3 is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's. As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting. For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful. -- Where you went for your radio, I have to say that the salesman is not really an idiot, if you know what I mean. He wants to make his commissions. He probably gets paid mainly on his sales. If he can sell you a subscription for the XM service, he and his employer will have a continuous commission for each month your are paying for a period of up to 1 year (from what I have read). Many of these services pay the vendor a commission for the sale, and then a commission for each month that the subscriber stays with his plan. This is how it works over here with the sales of satellite TV and telephone services. I the area where I am located, our telephone company pays the vendor about $15 for each contract subscription that they sell. They then get about 3% up to about 10%, depending on the type of contract of sale, of the subscriber's payments for up to one year as commission of sale. The dealers usually split this with the employee who did the sale. I know of some salesmen who have many hundreds of these types of sales under them. They are making a good income from this alone. I have seen situations where the salesmen will lie about the availability of a product, because he wants to make a bigger commission from the one that the already has. Or, he does not have the one you want in stock, and he is too anxious to sell you another type that he has in stock. In your case, I am very sure that the salesman wants to suck you in to taking the services so that he can make extra cash for himself, and have more points from his employer. If he is the owner or a partner in the establishment, he probably even makes more for himself. There are many stores where I will not go in to because of the pressure to buy from them. They come after you like hungry dogs! When purchasing at any store, make sure that you understand their return policy. This is important in case you buy something, and you are not happy with it. Always check out a number of places for the same type of item before putting down your money for it. Carefully compare prices and options available for what you are buying. -- Greetings, Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG ========================================= WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm ========================================= "SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#5
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why are salesmen such idiots?
You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in
my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will now play MP3's. MP3 is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's. As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting. For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful. -- Where you went for your radio, I have to say that the salesman is not really an idiot, if you know what I mean. He wants to make his commissions. He probably gets paid mainly on his sales. If he can sell you a subscription for the XM service, he and his employer will have a continuous commission for each month your are paying for a period of up to 1 year (from what I have read). Many of these services pay the vendor a commission for the sale, and then a commission for each month that the subscriber stays with his plan. This is how it works over here with the sales of satellite TV and telephone services. I the area where I am located, our telephone company pays the vendor about $15 for each contract subscription that they sell. They then get about 3% up to about 10%, depending on the type of contract of sale, of the subscriber's payments for up to one year as commission of sale. The dealers usually split this with the employee who did the sale. I know of some salesmen who have many hundreds of these types of sales under them. They are making a good income from this alone. I have seen situations where the salesmen will lie about the availability of a product, because he wants to make a bigger commission from the one that the already has. Or, he does not have the one you want in stock, and he is too anxious to sell you another type that he has in stock. In your case, I am very sure that the salesman wants to suck you in to taking the services so that he can make extra cash for himself, and have more points from his employer. If he is the owner or a partner in the establishment, he probably even makes more for himself. There are many stores where I will not go in to because of the pressure to buy from them. They come after you like hungry dogs! When purchasing at any store, make sure that you understand their return policy. This is important in case you buy something, and you are not happy with it. Always check out a number of places for the same type of item before putting down your money for it. Carefully compare prices and options available for what you are buying. -- Greetings, Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG ========================================= WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm ========================================= "SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#6
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why are salesmen such idiots?
why not grab a Nomad Zen player and a $20 FM modulator?
"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#7
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:15:09 -0500, SEVEN SEVILLE wrote:
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? All I do to play my MP3s in the company car is, I just burn them onto CDRWs as audio-CDs (the Ford CD-player that's fitted, plays CDRWs OK). When I'm tired of the selections, I just re-format the CDRW and start again. -- Michael Turner Email (ROT13) |
#8
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Jerry G. wrote: You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will play MP3's. MP3 is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's. As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting. For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful. -- Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO. It would be good for background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside) Bob -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#9
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? Can't a salesman give you some advice without you getting all huffy about it? |
#10
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote:
Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO. Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word. It would be good for background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside) I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust. -- Michael Turner Email (ROT13) |
#11
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:15:09 -0500, SEVEN SEVILLE
wrote: Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? could be some guy....got hired on despite not haveing a background inelectronics....and he is learning as he goes |
#12
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner
wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote: Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO. Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word. Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV? I'm pretty sure that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same paradigm as you do. I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember having to choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper paperwork. It would be good for background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside) I think that a commercial account would be covered in terms of rights. It would be built into rental. |
#13
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:35:59 -0600, dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote: Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO. Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word. Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV? Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is also commercial free. I'm pretty sure that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same paradigm as you do. AFAIK most of Western Europe has some sort of TV licensing system, usually to fund the national broadcaster. I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember having to choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper paperwork. The license choice here is a Black & White (monochrome) or Colour TV license, and it's been like that since the late '60s. http://www.tv-l.co.uk/ It would be good for background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside) I think that a commercial account would be covered in terms of rights. It would be built into rental. Yup it's the same with pay-TV satellite/cable here. www.sky.com www.telewest.co.uk www.ntl.co.uk -- Michael Turner Email (ROT13) |
#14
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
"Kirstin Cogdill" wrote ...
Can't a salesman give you some advice without you getting all huffy about it? Would YOU take sound/audio "advice" from someone who was flipping burgers last week? Redirection (from MP3 to XM) is always suspicious behavior. Was he not listening to the customer? Did he not know what MP3 is? Is there a big spiff on selling XM this week? |
#15
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:01:12 +0000, michael turner
wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:35:59 -0600, dave weil wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote: Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO. Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word. Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV? Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is also commercial free. I'm pretty sure that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same paradigm as you do. AFAIK most of Western Europe has some sort of TV licensing system, usually to fund the national broadcaster. I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember having to choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper paperwork. The license choice here is a Black & White (monochrome) or Colour TV license, and it's been like that since the late '60s. http://www.tv-l.co.uk/ Thanks for the info. |
#16
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why are salesmen such idiots?
"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? Alpine 98 series. I have the 9815. It was $350 ( $499 MSRP ). It can play 48KHz 320Kbps MP3's max which is near CD quality. ( if someone tells you 128K is, smack them ). FM tuner works great. |
#17
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Bypassing the FM modulator and plugging direct will restore channel
separation, dynamic range, reduce distortion, reduce noise, and restore freq. response (as you mentioned). Good move, that. "Tim H." wrote in message news:vcIXb.38418$yE5.137465@attbi_s54... "SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Hmm, interestin thing about compression. I understand you're not interested in XM, but I have to "rant." I picked up my XM radio a year or so ago. It was Alpine's XMA-T200RF unit. It came with an FM modulator to make it co-exist with stock systems easier. I, too, could hear the compression artifacts. I believe some stations are dynamically allocated bandwidth and suffer from compression less. Anyways, I decided to crack open the XM receiver and tap into the line outputs (that go to the modulator) and run them to my stereo. It could be a placebo effect, but it sounded better. Going direct got rid of the FM bandwidth limitations. Again, this could be purely subjective, but I didn't notice the compression artifacts as much. Just my two quid, -Tim Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? |
#18
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why are salesmen such idiots?
ec wrote:
Alpine 98 series. I have the 9815. It was $350 ( $499 MSRP ). It can play 48KHz 320Kbps MP3's max which is near CD quality. ( if someone tells you 128K is, smack them ). FM tuner works great. Btw - rough comparison: 128K - AM stereo quality. 192K - FM quality.(both with no hiss or artifacts, though) 240K - Tape or Vinyl. 320K - Good tape - Metal or Hi-fi VCR or R-R. The quality jump from 128K to 192K alone is shocking. 320K is half CD raw data in size, though with VBR compression and a good encoder, you can get about 3/4 CD quality for about 1/3 the size - a nice compromise, IMO. I'd consider 192K to be a bare minimum for a noisy environment. |
#19
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why are salesmen such idiots?
I have both XM and Sirius in my car and love both services. Personally I
think it's worth the $25 a month I pay since I'm driving quite a bit and FM broadcast leaves little to be desired around here. The DJ talk in the mornings is pathetic. Both of my systems are FM modulated and sound pretty good. Hey... you can't take it with you and I can afford it, so why not? It's not contract service like cellular phones, so I can cancel anytime. About the MP3 player comments... Wal-Mart sells a FM modulated CD/MP3 6 disc changer for 90 bucks. I have one and it works great. Best Buy sells an identical CD/MP3 unit, but branded differently, for $229... so I think the Wal-Mart version is a pretty dang good deal. "Jerry G." wrote in message ... As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local rock and jazz stations. |
#20
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Wal-Mart sells a FM modulated CD/MP3 6 disc
changer for 90 bucks. . Best Buy sells an identical CD/MP3 unit, but branded differently, for $229... What is the name of the two different name brands? |
#21
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why are salesmen such idiots?
"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message ... Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts. Does any of you own an car MP3 player? Who makes it? How much did it cost? How well does it play MP3's? How does the FM tuner come in? I had a Jensen breifly that was crap, returned it and got a Kenwood, I forget the model number but I've been pleased with it, I think it was $250 at the time but this was a couple years ago. The FM tuner works ok, but I rarely ever use it since I've always got a couple CD's of MP3's in the car. I haven't noticed any difference in tuner performance between modern head units of at least reasonably decent quality. |
#22
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why are salesmen such idiots?
"ReEfErMaDnEsS" wrote in message news:nZLXb.311811$I06.3160189@attbi_s01... why not grab a Nomad Zen player and a $20 FM modulator? That works, but it's rather kludgey, it's much nicer to have all the controls right on the head unit. |
#23
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
Richard Crowley wrote:
Would YOU take sound/audio "advice" from someone who was flipping burgers last week? Appeal to authority, and a straw man argument. You enjoy logical fallacies don't you. I've worked as a game room attendant, computer technician, website operator, and combat infantry in the last few years. I bet I've forgotten more about car audio than many people on this newsgroup will ever know. Redirection (from MP3 to XM) is always suspicious behavior. Was he not listening to the customer? Did he not know what MP3 is? Is there a big spiff on selling XM this week? You expressed an interest in Digital Audio, presumably for its clarity over AM/FM. And make no doubt - a properly installed XM setup sounds alot better than FM. What the salesman did was redirect you to a competitive product that he felt would satisfy your needs. If you know it all, mister, then don't bother the salespeople. Order **** from crutchfield, and spare both yourself and the salesguy the pain-in-the-ass hostilites. He's just trying to make a living. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#24
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why are salesmen such idiots?
michael turner wrote:
I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust. We do. Many establishments get their canned music via DirecTV. Several cable services also broadcast digital music channels, and in larger markets they rebroadcast local AM/FM content for free over their Digital Packages. A long time ago they had SCR (Satellite Commercial Radio) which sent commercial free music over C-band satellites, but this was largely replaced by the micro-dish providers. For individuals, the market is much shallower. The consumer demand on this side of the pond is image driven, and not equity driven. We still don't have jack from RDS other than the station call letters, while in some parts of Europe RDS actually changes the channel for you. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#25
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why are salesmen such idiots?
michael turner wrote:
Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is also commercial free. As much as I hate the idea of government providing products that could be provided by the private sector, I have to say it's damn nice that BBC doesn't put those annoying screen bugs over the shows. 3/4 of the Farscape episodes I've downloaded are from the BBC, and its so nice not to have the Sci Fi channels logo frelling up the action. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#26
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why are salesmen such idiots?
ec wrote:
if someone tells you 128K is, smack them ) Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3 file than the bitrate. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#27
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Just wondering, but why is this crossposted to hell and back? non-audio newsgroups deleted Btw - rough comparison: 128K - AM stereo quality. 192K - FM quality.(both with no hiss or artifacts, though) 240K - Tape or Vinyl. 320K - Good tape - Metal or Hi-fi VCR or R-R. Very rough - I'm wondering how you came up with those figures. For starters, AM is not available in stereo - there's not enough bandwidth to encode both channels on a single carrier. Regardless, AM quality is equivalent to about 40 kbps MP3. FM radio quality begins at a mere 80 Kbps, and CD quality needs only 113 kbps. Of course, this all depends on at least the following factors: a) The codec - lame is probably the best choice, unless you have more money than disk space and brains, in which case you'll want the fhg (Fraunhofer Group) codec (which I'm told is still freely available for the taking if you can find an older version of MusicMatch Jukebox). b) The amount of information - and ironically classical music needs less space because there is less overall information than contemporary music. c) The available system resources on the machine doing the encoding. Regardless, MP3 stinks for discriminating ears. Use ogg - better quality at lower bitrates. I've got 6 mb Ogg files which put their 14 mb MP3 counterparts to shame. They've come a long way since 99. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#28
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why are salesmen such idiots?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:09:05 -0500, thelizman
wrote: michael turner wrote: I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust. For individuals, the market is much shallower. The consumer demand on this side of the pond is image driven, and not equity driven. We still don't have jack from RDS other than the station call letters, while in some parts of Europe RDS actually changes the channel for you. Too bad. I get DMX at my country house and I've enjoyed it for most of the last 10 years.. The sound quality and program content, for me, are vastly superior to what comes from cable and TV satellite providers. Have not compared it to satellite radio but see no need to. Kal |
#29
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
"thelizman" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote: Would YOU take sound/audio "advice" from someone who was flipping burgers last week? Appeal to authority, and a straw man argument. You enjoy logical fallacies don't you. I've worked as a game room attendant, computer technician, website operator, and combat infantry in the last few years. I bet I've forgotten more about car audio than many people on this newsgroup will ever know. Redirection (from MP3 to XM) is always suspicious behavior. Was he not listening to the customer? Did he not know what MP3 is? Is there a big spiff on selling XM this week? You expressed an interest in Digital Audio, Perhaps you should get several facts straight. Go back and read the original posting. The OP was "SEVEN SEVILLE" (not me) who was asking for a unit for his truck that he could use to play his MP3 collection with. presumably for its clarity over AM/FM. Actually I believe Mr. Seville was asking specifically for MP3 playback so that he could play his existing collection of music. He never mentioned anything about "clarity" or "digital audio", but specifically for an "MP3 player". The salesguy attempted to up-sell him to a sattelite receiver which he never expressed any interest in. I strongly suspect that there was a financial incentive to sell satellite radio receivers, but I could overly suspicious from previous dishonest encounters. And make no doubt - a properly installed XM setup sounds alot better than FM. Mr. Seville specifically stated that he could hear the compression artifacts in the demo setup at the shop. If satellite receiver quality really is determined by "proper installation" then Mr. Seville had no real expectation that they could do any better in his truck, than they did for their own sales demo, now did he? An inauspicious exhibit of their abilities to say the least. What the salesman did was redirect you to a competitive product that he felt would satisfy your needs. If you know it all, mister, then don't bother the salespeople. Order **** from crutchfield, and spare both yourself and the salesguy the pain-in-the-ass hostilites. He's just trying to make a living. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why local shops are going out of business. Customers can't find anyone that either knows what they are talking about or will give them a straight and unbiased answer. Thank goodness for the internet. No further questions, your honor. I rest my case. The witness is excused. |
#30
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
Richard Crowley wrote:
Perhaps you should get several facts straight. Go back and read the original posting. The OP was "SEVEN SEVILLE" (not me) who was asking for a unit for his truck that he could use to play his MP3 collection with. Okay dickhead, perhaps you shouldn't munge the quotes in your replies. The original post is not on my server - one of the many reasons usenet equiquette exists is to preserve the context and format of statements. Actually I believe Mr. Seville was asking specifically for MP3 playback so that he could play his existing collection of music. He never mentioned anything about "clarity" or "digital audio", but specifically for an "MP3 player". Wow, I think I've met my match in the "pompous arrogant ****" department. If I recall, my statement was that "[he] expressed an interest in Digital Audio", which is what MP3 is. The salesman was right to direct his attention towards digital satellite radio options. The salesguy attempted to up-sell him to a sattelite receiver which he never expressed any interest in. How can you express interest in something you don't know about? This is why stores still have salesman. As I advised, if you know it all, then don't bother the sales people. I strongly suspect that there was a financial incentive to sell satellite radio receivers, but I could overly suspicious from previous dishonest encounters. Newsflash guy - he's a commercial establishment. There's a financial incentive to sell everything. It's called "capitalism". Mr. Seville specifically stated that he could hear the compression artifacts in the demo setup at the shop. If satellite receiver quality really is determined by "proper installation" then Mr. Seville had no real expectation that they could do any better in his truck, than they did for their own sales demo, now did he? An inauspicious exhibit of their abilities to say the least. The keywords being a "demo setup", which was likely through an FM modulator. A unit with builtin XM reception produces very high quality music. I think you need to stop speaking for Mr. Seville. You're not even doing a good job of making up your bs on the fl, much less trying to interpret his perceptions. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why local shops are going out of business. Customers can't find anyone that either knows what they are talking about or will give them a straight and unbiased answer. Thank goodness for the internet. No further questions, your honor. I rest my case. The witness is excused. "local" shops, when they are going out of business, are doing so because of their inability to compete with chain stores in the areas of price and product availability. The talent at the chain stores is roughly the same, which can be bad or good. I haven't seen any local shops going out of business around here. In fact, one of my former coworkes left his job at a chain store to start a "local" shop selling car sound and performance products - he's making more money than he knows what to do with. Another former coworker left a management position at said chain store and bought up a 'local' shop and has now expanded to two operations in fairly large market (Greensboro / Winston-Salem, NC). Local shops going out of business indeed. Ask Eddie Runner how close he is to going out of business. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#31
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
In sci.electronics.repair thelizman wrote:
This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. Do I have your express permission to quote your posts (which are crossposted to the Usenet newsgroups rec.audio.car, rec.audio.opinion, and sci.electronics.repair) for the purpose of answering your points? IOW, I wish to reproduce the contents of your posts in a venue other than that you implicitly grant permission for. If I don't then can you please limit your responses to those Usenet newsgroups that you do grant permission for? |
#32
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
"Robert Grizzard" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair thelizman wrote: This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. Do I have your express permission to quote your posts (which are crossposted to the Usenet newsgroups rec.audio.car, rec.audio.opinion, and sci.electronics.repair) for the purpose of answering your points? IOW, I wish to reproduce the contents of your posts in a venue other than that you implicitly grant permission for. If I don't then can you please limit your responses to those Usenet newsgroups that you do grant permission for? you can sit down now. you have my permission. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#33
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when
you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3 file than the bitrate. |
#34
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses
when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is DEcoding the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across players. |
#35
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is DEcoding the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across players. I understand - so was I. When you buy a song from Itunes or Napster, they made the MP3. It's 128K. It sounds very close to cd quality. I was wondering what codec, or encoding algorithm they use to make quality Mp3s at 128K. |
#36
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why are salesmen such idiots?
note: sci.electronics.repair removed from ng xpost list
Z Gluhak wrote: Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. I'm not quite sure on Napster, but iTunes uses AAC which is a very good codec, probably the best lossy compression codec commercially available. It's basically MP4 of sorts, the MPEG Layer 4 Advanced Audio Codec. AAC includes Digital Rights Management, however. My view on DRM is that anything which restricts your ability to portablize your music and adds size to the file is detrimental. It just so happens that the same kid who cracked the CSS DVD Encryption scheme (making it possible to backup your DVD's, or rip them to your hard drive like I do) recently cracked Apple's DRM on AAC. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...id=141&tid=188 -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#37
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why are salesmen such idiots?
note: sci.electronics.repair removed from ng xpost list
Z Gluhak wrote: I understand - so was I. When you buy a song from Itunes or Napster, they made the MP3. It's 128K. It sounds very close to cd quality. I was wondering what codec, or encoding algorithm they use to make quality Mp3s at 128K. See other post. They're probably passing AAC files off with an MP3 extension. There is also a fraunhofer pro codec which uses additional spectral data to clean up the bass and treble. It can be played on MP3 player, but only players with the fhp codec will get the benefit of the pro encoding scheme. AFAIK, Apple uses AAC and probably just gives it the mp3 extension instead of incrementing to mp4. -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#38
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why are salesmen such idiots?
Z Gluhak wrote:
Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is DEcoding the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across players. I understand - so was I. When you buy a song from Itunes or Napster, they made the MP3. It's 128K. It sounds very close to cd quality. I was wondering what codec, or encoding algorithm they use to make quality Mp3s at 128K. Z Gluhak wrote: Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. Apple offers a tool for the record companies to encode their own files--the "Music Store Encoder Tool." I haven't run across a copy yet... iTunes uses a 128 kbps bitrate, but they use AAC format instead of MP3. They say it's roughly equivalent to a 160 kbps MP3, but on complex/fast/detailed songs I've found that I want a higher bitrate. Here's some info: http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/aac/ Stuff like Jack Johnson or Norah Jones generally sounds fine to me; it's fast punk rock--especially the drums and cymbals--that start sounding "syrupy" to me. (That's the only way I know to describe it.) From what I've read, Apple tries to rip the file from the original studio masters/tapes which explains the high sound quality. If only they'd offer songs encoded at 160 or 192 kbps... HTH, Adam |
#39
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why are salesmen such idiots? BECAUSE ALF, YOU ARE A JERK
Robert Grizzard wrote:
Do I have your express permission to quote your posts No, now sit down waldo. Incidentally who is the genius who crossposted this thread to sci.electronics.repair? -- thelizman teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/ teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/ "It's about the music, stupid" This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written permission of the author is forbidden. |
#40
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why are salesmen such idiots?
thelizman wrote:
note: sci.electronics.repair removed from ng xpost list Z Gluhak wrote: Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM to me. I'm not quite sure on Napster, but iTunes uses AAC which is a very good codec, probably the best lossy compression codec commercially available. It's basically MP4 of sorts, the MPEG Layer 4 Advanced Audio Codec. AAC includes Digital Rights Management, however. My view on DRM is that anything which restricts your ability to portablize your music and adds size to the file is detrimental. It just so happens that the same kid who cracked the CSS DVD Encryption scheme (making it possible to backup your DVD's, or rip them to your hard drive like I do) recently cracked Apple's DRM on AAC. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...id=141&tid=188 AFAIK, only the songs purchased from the iTunes store have the FairPlay DRM built in. If you set iTunes to rip your own music to AAC files, it applies no copy protection. Apparently the new version rips to AAC by default; I disabled it because my car player only plays MP3s...and I'm pretty sure iTunes won't convert an AAC file to MP3 on-the-fly when burning an MP3 disk (not that I'd want to). The extension on a ripped file is .m4a The extension on a bought file is .m4p Adam |