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#1
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Drums: two mics, two tracks
I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics
and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... |
#2
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On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:49:20 -0700, NewYorkDave wrote:
I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... I've found that you can get a realistic recording of what the drum kit sounds like in the room with a couple of mics.... but not many drum kits actually sound very good. At least the ones I record anyway, I can do a little remedial work on a kit, but I'm not a drum tech. I have been doing some demos recently with a single omni over the kit, and been very pleased with the results however. The kit was a lovely sounding old ludwig. I kinda like working like that as when the kit is multi mic'd I stress and fiddle about with the sound way too much. With one mic I found myself removing eq and compression when it came to the mix, any effects just took something from the recording (Though I did do a 15hz high pass as the speakers were wobbling too much). With multi mics I keep piling it on. |
#4
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I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics
and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... Drums are not one instrument, they are an ensemble of very different instruments configured for one person to play, which is why they're so troublesome to record. Just because one person can play them doesn't mean that every instrument projects ideally for a pair of mics to capture. If there were a percussionist for each drum and cymbal, then they would be positioned very differently, and perhaps the performers would bump elbows to accommodate a more ideal acoustic presentation. In the meantime, there's no way a stereo pair can capture a kick and snare set up for one drummer with any fidelity to either drum, never mind the rest of the kit. |
#5
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Out of curiosity, does your nickname ''Philicorda'' refer to the infamous
dutch Philips organ from the 60/70-s? We have two of 'm: niiiiice sounding organs (although one is severely out of tune). best regards, Bob "philicorda" schreef in bericht news On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:49:20 -0700, NewYorkDave wrote: |
#6
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#7
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I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics
and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... Imho, two mics is a very good starting point. Yeah, you'll get no big kicks and thunder snare.. but I've seen too many beginners that start with 15 mics.." 'cause the Professional do it this way... ". Ciao Pietro |
#8
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Drums are not one instrument, they are an ensemble of very different
instruments configured for one person to play, and a Piano? a lot of separate instruments.. strings with different pitch? ;-) I really think that whe should speak of "one instrument" from the listeners point of view... An Orchestra is "one instrument" for the listeners.. and, often, for the mics too.. Ciao, Pietro |
#9
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:57:09 +0200, Bob wrote:
Out of curiosity, does your nickname ''Philicorda'' refer to the infamous dutch Philips organ from the 60/70-s? We have two of 'm: niiiiice sounding organs (although one is severely out of tune). best regards, Bob I'm afraid it does. I have one, with the seperate amp and speakers box that sits below the organ. The organ is a little quiet at the moment for some reason. I changed the valves for cheap new ones (the original mullards could be put to better use), but it made no difference. Still gets used on some tracks though, when only mature cheese will do. |
#10
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On 26 Aug 2004 17:49:20 -0700, NewYorkDave wrote:
I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... How about this? Not being a drummer, I put quite a bit of effort into making my drum machine sound like a decent kit in a decent room. Not being able to emulate a "decent player" I settle for "at least he plays more or less in time." |
#11
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In the meantime, there's no way a stereo pair can capture a kick and snare
set up for one drummer with any fidelity to either drum, never mind the rest of the kit. Of course a stereo pair can do this & it is done all the time, however the result is not the familiar (and obviously very unrealistic) sound of pop music. Some of the most realistic drum sounds I have heard were coming through Ben Maas's stereo AKG placed in front of the kit on big band gigs. Scott Fraser |
#12
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Still gets used on some tracks though, when only mature cheese will do.
Speaking of organ cheese, I was very pleased to find a place for my very ripe Farfisa MiniCompact on recent Kronos sessions. It sounds glorious, in a pungent moldy kinda way. Scott Fraser |
#13
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Of course the drums have to sound good and the
drummer has to balance himself. That's crucial. A lot of drummers think the balance lies in somebody else's hands. The better drummers balance their instrument themselves. Scott Fraser |
#14
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"ScotFraser" wrote in message ... In the meantime, there's no way a stereo pair can capture a kick and snare set up for one drummer with any fidelity to either drum, never mind the rest of the kit. Of course a stereo pair can do this & it is done all the time, however the result is not the familiar (and obviously very unrealistic) sound of pop music. Some of the most realistic drum sounds I have heard were coming through Ben Maas's stereo AKG placed in front of the kit on big band gigs. Scott Fraser Thanks Scott! A stereo microphne placed in front of the kit (relatively closely) and in the right place can get you a great drum sound. Position is critical, but you can get tons of snare and kick if it is in the right place. -Ben -- Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Los Angeles, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies |
#15
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Thanks Scott!
A stereo microphne placed in front of the kit (relatively closely) and in the right place can get you a great drum sound. Provided, of course, that the kit & drummer are up to the task. Additionally it helps that you have those Steve Barker designed preamps in the chain. Scott Fraser |
#16
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peace,
as a drummer, let me join the great elvin jones and tell you that drumset is one instrument. some of the highest fidelity, most natural recording are done with a single stero pair as most of you know. of course if we're talking rock or pop drumming.... ....i would put one overhead on the snare/hi-hat side and one in front of the bass drum: it would definetly grove more than a front stereo pair. experiment and enjoy: some of the greatest records of all times (in all genres) were made with heavily limited equipment. immagination and taste on a portastudio can do better than a jerk on a neve... enjoy. |
#17
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...
I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... I was doing preproduction with a band and the first night was set up to deconstruct an arrangment. They had worked on it independently as well, so we needed a way to compare the two versions as well as permit me to be in the live room communicating diretly. So I set up one mic, balanced the players positionally and ran a DAT. As each night progressed, we added one mic until we got up to 4. I had never done anything like that in close to 10 years of recording and it was a great experience. I think it's a totaly worth while expereince to try that with drums. I've heard a lot of people talk about using their overheads as the foundation of their drum mix, then adding in close mics as necessary. If you were only using two mics, is overhead where you'd put them? As soon as I started thinking that way and expereiment it totally changed how I approached micing a set. Also, fewer mics will help develop your ability to hear phase problems on a mulit-miked kit. |
#18
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I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... I believe that the Sheffield labs Drum record was recorded using three micropones on th Jim Keltner session. Basically two overheads and a third microphone on the floor in front of the kick. The right drums, the right room and the right drummer can make this possible. As to using only two microphones, I've gotten decent results doing that , but i can't get the punch from the bass without miking it seperately. I really prefer four--T wo overheads plus Kick and snare as I like to add effects on the snare only at thime. Richard H. Kuschel "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty |
#19
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#20
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NewYorkDave wrote:
I know there's been a few "how to record drums using X number of mics and X number of tracks" threads. But here's something I was thinking about tonight: most of us would not hesitate to record an acoustic instrument (e.g., a piano) in stereo using only two mics routed to two tracks. A drum kit is an acoustic instrument. Does anyone reading this routinely record drum kits using a single stereo pair of mics? I used to do this a long time ago, but I had ****ty mics and zero experience at the time--and was recording in lousy rooms--so the results were not good. I used a pair of MD 441's on a low stand (tom height) some 4 feet from a drumkit once upon a time. Not at all bad, punchy and convincing with full cymbal impact, as you would hear the kit in a bar. Just trying to get another stimulating RAP discussion going... Thanks! Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#21
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Sugarite wrote:
Drums are not one instrument, they are an ensemble of very different instruments configured for one person to play, which is why they're so troublesome to record. Just because one person can play them doesn't mean that every instrument projects ideally for a pair of mics to capture. Ah, I read you to suggest that any recording of n sonic objects needs at least n + 2 mics .... O;-) ... I would then have needed 122 mics for Elija rather than just 2. The conductor was very pleased with the balance and with the audibility of everything. Horns, piano, violin, viola, clarinet are all examples of instruments with an "unsuitable" radiation characteristic, and yet also all excellently recordable with a single pair in a real room. If there were a percussionist for each drum and cymbal, then they would be positioned very differently, and perhaps the performers would bump elbows to accommodate a more ideal acoustic presentation. In the meantime, there's no way a stereo pair can capture a kick and snare set up for one drummer with any fidelity to either drum, never mind the rest of the kit. I recently recorded a brass band with a single pair of mics and received special praise for the drum sound, it was "just right" according to drummer and conductor. Use an "unreal" room and all bets are off. It should also be noted that different recording styles sound differently and fit different musical genres. In case of a drumkit the cymbals can - imo - be way too noisy and bright for rock if the kit is recorded naturally. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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