[jakdedert]

Serge Auckland wrote:

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I've been advised ( elsewhere) that the only way to possibly get a
reproduction of the original sound from replacement crossvers is to have
the testing done by a tech who uses equipment from Audio Precision to
insure that the response is the same as the good speaker. Responses ? SD


Nonsense. AP equipment measures audio performance like frequency
response, noise, distortion etc. It is the best test equipment around
currently, but is not what you need.

To create a new crossover, you need to have a Tech measure the
component values of the good crossover. This means you need an LCR
bridge, or other similar instrument that can measure the values of the
crossover components.

Then, with that information, you (or your Tech) can obtain replacement
parts and fit them. Then, once you have the crossover repaired, you
can certainly check the performance with a calibrated microphone and
an AP, but you can do the same with a calibrated microphone and any
number of much cheaper items of test gear. There's even some free
software that you can use (RMAA), but you do need the calibrated
microphone otherwise you have no idea what you're measuring.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com
Further to the above, you can even do without the calibrated microphone
if all you want to know is if the repaired 'speaker measures sensibly
the same as the other one.

S.

In addition, the OP still has not published the results of even
rudimentary testing; ie, stick your ear next to each driver at very low
volume. If one is dead or deficient, swap it to the other speaker and
see if it sounds the same.

This is a simple test, and pretty definitive--providing reasonable care
is taken. Without some testing, he's running around yelling about the
sky falling....and wasting time/bandwidth.

jak

[[email protected]]

On Jun 12, 11:00 am, wrote:
I've been advised ( elsewhere)

Who made this claim?

that the only way to possibly get a
reproduction of the original sound from replacement
crossvers is to have the testing done by a tech who
uses equipment from Audio Precision to insure that
the response is the same as the good speaker.
Responses ?

Complete nonsense on several fronts.

First of all, The response of the repaired speaker
will NEVER be the same as the other, because it
never was to begin with. There's enough production
variation between individual drivers to make this feat
impossible, and it doesn't requires something on
the order of and Audio Precision to to find that out.

Second, measuring speakers is a damned difficult
task to do right.

Third, the measured response of a speaker can and
does vary with changes in temperature, humidity and
other conditions.

Fourth, there are PLENTY of systems that are QUITE
capable of measuring loudspeakers with far more
than adequate precision and resolution. IN that sense,
the Audio Precision is a fairly espennsive waste of
technology.

Fifth, the Audio Precision is, in fact, NOT very good
at measuring loudspeakers. It can measure the
transfer function of electronic products such as
amplifiers very nicely, but is NOT well equipped to
deal with the added complexity imposed by acoustical
conditions. There are any number of systems that are
far better, far easier and less expensive at measuring
speakers.

Whoever made this claim I would assert a) doesn't
know measuring loudspeakers, b) doesn't know the
Audio Precision, c) doesn't know the current state of
teh art in electroacoustical measurement techniques
and systems or, most likely, some combination of
all three.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:23:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

lots of good sense, snipped 'cause you've just read it

To the OP:

Cool. So you've bypassed the Stax box, and have the same
issue. Have you attempted swapping the (presumably - you
haven't actually said fersure-fersure) the known-good
driver from the presumably known-good other speaker?

If I unintentionally sound mean, please forgive me; it's my
inability to ask the right question. But the steps in solving
this are very, very simple.

Extracting the answers to the question-tree is sometimes
very, very difficult.


Communication seems obvious until one actually tries it.
We forget this after our primary experience of it at age
two. A few months in Korea will cure one of the misconception.
A few minutes on the Internet works similar magic. Arf!


All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"True, but only for large values of zero."
-Mike Rivers

[The One[_2_]]

I would not switch the drivers as they look more like generators and
I'.m not going to take the chance of ruining them. I would take the
units to be tested if there was someone in the NYC area to do the work
, but I would not trust them to the mail. SD

[[email protected]]

On Jun 13, 12:42 am, (The One) wrote:
I would not switch the drivers as they look more like generators

They're NOT generators. They're drivers, and very likely
quite ordinary ones at that. There's pretty much nothing
new under the loudspeaker sun, despite wild claims
to the contrary, for the last half century.

and I'm not going to take the chance of ruining them.

All the data points in the direction that you likely
already have ruined one of them.

I would take the units to be tested if there was
someone in the NYC area to do the work

ANY competent audio repair place is more than
capable of dosgnosing them. Repairing them,
assuming parts are available, is not at all beyond
their skill.

If you distrust local repair organizations, if you think
they have "generators" if you think that only people
with AP equipment can test them, if you refuse to
follow the reasonable advice given here, if you
refuse to take them to a reasonable repair facility,
you'll NEVER get them fixed.

Might as well throw them away, at that point, because
you've set up a system of utterly unreasonable
expectations that are impossible to satisfy.

[[email protected]]

dpierce , you're an ass and I have not received any help from any
"techs" here or elsewhere , adios

[Kalman Rubinson[_2_]]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:13:58 -0400, wrote:

dpierce , you're an ass and I have not received any help from any
"techs" here or elsewhere , adios

He may have a little chip on his shoulder but he is one of
the most knowledgeable people on this subject and he is
right. Your insistence on not following the reasonable
suggestions for diagnosis means that your only alternative
is to bring this to a competent service tech.

There is no magic in these boxes and anyone with a
background in speaker repair/technology can, at the very
least, diagnose the problem. I know a few good people in
NYC but, at this point, I am hesitant to inflict you on
them.

Kal

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message


dpierce , you're an ass

I've reviewed this thread, and FWIW I see nothing but good advice in his
posts.

and I have not received any help
from any "techs" here or elsewhere

It appears that you have problems with perceiving good help when it is
offered.

, adios

Don't let the door... :-(

[jakdedert]

The [Wrong] One spewed:
I would not switch the drivers as they look more like generators and
I'.m not going to take the chance of ruining them. I would take the
units to be tested if there was someone in the NYC area to do the work
, but I would not trust them to the mail. SD

I, for one--and I suspect I'm not alone--am absolutely through with this
thread. You asked for help, and got it in spades. There's hardly a
spurious post in the thread. BTW, according to info you've posted,
they're (one of them, anyway) already ruined.

You choose to ignore all advice given. Fine. Now go away, and take
your gold-plated, bankrupt speakers with you. Why'd you post in the
first place?

Forget I asked that. I don't care. Any replies by the OP will be
happily ignored

jak

[[email protected]]

On Jun 13, 9:13 am, wrote:
dpierce , you're an ass

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.

ut, as always, it is the last resort of someone losing
a technical discussion to restort to name calling.

and I have not received any help from any "techs" here

Actually, you have received quite a lot, most of it
quite relevant and directly applicable to your specific
situation as you've described it. You've chosen
to ignore it all, it seems.

One might suspect that, in fact, you showed up here
with a pocketful of preconceived notions, and a bunch
of answers which, as it happens, are technically wrong
and you didn't like the fact that no one would support
your technical fantasies.

Any number of your statements such as:

"I would not switch the drivers as they look
more like generators"

"I suspect the problem is the signal going
into the midrange ( not a driver problem )"

and others are so off-the-wall technically or
show that you're making assumptions with
little to back them up as to suggest that you
are, with no direspect intended, pretty clueless
in the domain.

Given that, how would you even know with
any certainty that the help you've been offered
is, in fact, wrothless as you seem to claim?

or elsewhere

Ah, so it's the entire world that's wrong and you're
right! Och!, why didn't I think of that?

adios

And to you, too. Let us know how well
your speakers end up given your current
approach.

And, by the way, I'm not a "tech." I've very
likely measured, tested, designed and
diagnosed more speakers in the time
this thread has been alive than you've
heard in your life. And I might hazard a
guess that I was doing since before you
got out of diapers.

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message


one of my Probe Jaydes sounds thin, I suspect the problem
is the signal going into the midrange ( not a driver
problem ) Company is out of business, ( no parts
available) any hope of service anywhere ? Stephen

Interesting that there are no mention of "Probe Jaydes" loudspeakers
anywhere on the internet until this thread started.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:30:37 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Interesting that there are no mention of "Probe Jaydes" loudspeakers
anywhere on the internet until this thread started.

Any loudspeaker with the word "probe" in its name
inspires confidence. I thought everyone knew that.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"True, but only for large values of zero."
-Mike Rivers

[jakdedert]

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message


one of my Probe Jaydes sounds thin, I suspect the problem
is the signal going into the midrange ( not a driver
problem ) Company is out of business, ( no parts
available) any hope of service anywhere ? Stephen

Interesting that there are no mention of "Probe Jaydes" loudspeakers
anywhere on the internet until this thread started.


References are pretty 'thin', too; but they exist...or did at one time.
No references to generators for midrange drivers, though.

jak

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message


dpierce , you're an ass

I'm putting my money on that being you.

I've reviewed this thread, and FWIW I see nothing but good advice in his
posts.

Or any of his posts IMO.

and I have not received any help
from any "techs" here or elsewhere

It appears that you have problems with perceiving good help when it is
offered.

So true, and unfortunately all to common.

MrT.

[[email protected]]

I've gone thru various net and "help" groups , lots of maybes, bogus
advice and lip. I liked the way you all pat youself on the backs, I'd
kick your collective asses.

[jakdedert]

wrote:
I've gone thru various net and "help" groups , lots of maybes, bogus
advice and lip. I liked the way you all pat youself on the backs, I'd
kick your collective asses.

Then please, take yourself and your toy computer elsewhere. We won't
bother you if you don't bother us. I'm sorry that you don't recognize
good advice when you read it, but it's not my problem.

Bye! Mind the door on your way out....

jak

[ignoring the pathetic macho posturing]

[[email protected]]

More "good advice". I solved the difficulty myself and the concerns
proved not to be with either the drivers or the crossovers. Think
modular units and backfiring tweeters and midrange , or not. Now I have
to figure out why one output on one of the Macs distorts the speakers
but not the electrostats. Thanks for nothing . SD

[jakdedert]

wrote:
More "good advice". I solved the difficulty myself and the concerns
proved not to be with either the drivers or the crossovers. Think
modular units and backfiring tweeters and midrange , or not. Now I have
to figure out why one output on one of the Macs distorts the speakers
but not the electrostats. Thanks for nothing . SD

Blah, blah, blah....

jak