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Listening in a car
I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material
of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Cheers, Norm Strong |
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Listening in a car
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#3
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Listening in a car
normanstrong wrote:
I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Cheers, Norm Strong Norm, you have to come to the 21st century . Get a wave editor, like the one that comes with Nero. Use the dynamic compressor feature. You can change the compression slope, specify different attack and release times, and burn mp3's to boot. I agree that listening to full-range classical music in a moving vehicle is a challenge. One appreciates the necessity of compression. And one can understand why a little compression, like what you find on a lot of vinyl LP's and SET's, can appear to bring out those "microdynamics". Hey, you can hear the low level details better! |
#4
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Listening in a car
My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to
classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. "normanstrong" wrote in message news:JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52... I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Cheers, Norm Strong |
#5
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Listening in a car
"normanstrong" wrote in message news:JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52...
I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Cheers, Norm Strong So you record in dbx, then play the tape without dbx? Doesn't the music become flat and lifeless? CD |
#6
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Listening in a car
"normanstrong" wrote in message
news:JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52... I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. IMO the compressor section of a DBX117 or DBX119, commonly sold on Ebay, offer yet a better solution. I use a DBX 119 to go from CD to CD avoiding the downside of cassettes and/or tone correction. (I assume everyone here has a CD players in their cars.) |
#7
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Listening in a car
On 7/27/04 12:23 AM, in article JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52,
"normanstrong" wrote: I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Actually, compression works well in a noisy environment - mp3 and other digital "psycho-acoustic" methods work almost as well. |
#8
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Listening in a car
normanstrong wrote:
I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car.Â* I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this:Â* I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction.Â* This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well.Â* If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. I used to record cassettes with Dolby B noise reduction, and play them back in the car with Dolby turned off, which worked better than you might imagine, although I've never been too particular about car sound. Now that I've only got a CD player in the car, however, I'm out of luck when it comes to listening to orchestral music. ITunes, which I use on a Mac to make CDRs for the car, doesn't seem to offer any way to compress the dynamic range of files. Anyone have any good solutions for this? bob __________________________________________________ _______________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy...n.asp?cid=3963 |
#9
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Listening in a car
Norman Strong wrote"
Cassette recorders with dbx capabilities are fairly rare. My solution for listening to classical music in cars - and I agree it's harder to hear low level signals - is to record on Metal Cassettes using Dolby C noise reduction and then raise the gain level to about + 8 db, which the metal tape headroom on my tape deck, a 3-head Nakamichi, allows. Unfortunately, it is not easy to find car tape players with Dolby C noise reduction built in, so this won't be a solution for many foks either. I use a Nakamichi TD-1200 Type 2 Mobile Dragon head unit in my car, which has Dolby C noise reduction, so I'm fortunate in that regard. The best place these days tyo find equpment like this now is probably on eBay. Bruce J. Richman |
#10
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Listening in a car
B&D wrote:
On 7/27/04 12:23 AM, in article JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52, "normanstrong" wrote: I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Actually, compression works well in a noisy environment - mp3 and other digital "psycho-acoustic" methods work almost as well. Uhh, mp3 provides data compression, not the signal compression that Norm was talking about. Mp3 does not give you a compression of dynamic range. |
#11
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Listening in a car
Actually driving a ybrid really slowly is really, really quiet!
On 7/28/04 2:21 AM, in article mBHNc.175275$IQ4.44815@attbi_s02, "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. "normanstrong" wrote in message news:JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52... I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this: I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction. This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well. If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. Cheers, Norm Strong |
#12
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Listening in a car
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#13
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Listening in a car
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#15
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Listening in a car
On 29 Jul 2004 23:38:59 GMT, B&D wrote:
On 7/28/04 7:34 PM, in article , "chung" wrote: B&D wrote: On 7/27/04 12:23 AM, in article JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52, "normanstrong" wrote: Uhh, mp3 provides data compression, not the signal compression that Norm was talking about. Mp3 does not give you a compression of dynamic range. Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#16
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Listening in a car
"Bob Marcus" wrote in message news:dDHNc.200751$Oq2.178904@attbi_s52...
normanstrong wrote: I'm sure you're all familiar with the problem of listening to material of wide dynamic range while in a moving car.Â* I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and on those rare occasions when I want music while driving, I get around the problem like this:Â* I copy all the music I want to hear from CD to a cassette, using dbx noise reduction.Â* This reduces every 2db change in the original to 1db in the copy; a program with a 50db dynamic range is reduced to 25db. Bass is also reduced, so I have to boost the bass on playback--a lot. This scheme works amazingly well.Â* If you find an old cassette recorder with dbx, give it a try. I used to record cassettes with Dolby B noise reduction, and play them back in the car with Dolby turned off, which worked better than you might imagine, although I've never been too particular about car sound. Now that I've only got a CD player in the car, however, I'm out of luck when it comes to listening to orchestral music. ITunes, which I use on a Mac to make CDRs for the car, doesn't seem to offer any way to compress the dynamic range of files. Anyone have any good solutions for this? bob You could use Amadeus II on the macintosh. Includes all sorts of audio manipulation. http://www.hairersoft.com/Amadeus.html __________________________________________________ _______________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy...n.asp?cid=3963 |
#17
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Listening in a car
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 29 Jul 2004 23:38:59 GMT, B&D wrote: On 7/28/04 7:34 PM, in article , "chung" wrote: B&D wrote: On 7/27/04 12:23 AM, in article JMkNc.194838$Oq2.59455@attbi_s52, "normanstrong" wrote: Uhh, mp3 provides data compression, not the signal compression that Norm was talking about. Mp3 does not give you a compression of dynamic range. Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. I'd have to check, but I believe that my current setting for LAME (--alt preset standard) results in variable bitrate mp3s (128--320) with a 'low-pass transition' around 19 kHz. I took this to mean that it starts discarding data corresponding to high frequencies above the 19 Khz mark. Which is beyond what I can hear, for sure. I see no evidence that it does anything similar at the low end of the frequency spectrum. -- -S. "We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's. Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." -- David Lee Roth |
#18
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Listening in a car
On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote:
"John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#19
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#20
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Listening in a car
B&D wrote:
On 7/30/04 1:44 PM, in article , "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? But it is much easier just listing the ways you are wrong. You know, we all go for the low-hanging fruit! Here is a website that explains how mp3's work in layman terms: http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/ When you said that mp3's sound "so bad", you are making an invalid assumption. I have listened to high bitrate mp3's and mp4's, and it is very difficult to tell the compressed version from the original. You should download iTunes and try it for yourself. Make a CD of tracks that you encode into AAC or mp3 (and decompress to .wav format). Compare that with original. Try coding at 320Kbps; it gets very difficult to detect differences using music material. BTW, if you believe that mp3's sound so bad, why then did you say that they sound "much easier" in a car? |
#21
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Listening in a car
B&D wrote:
Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? I made some comparisons with higher bitrates mp3. The sonic structure was kept very well, but the spacial impression got completely lost. What was deep soundstage extending beyond the speakers ended up on a line between the speakers. In headphones this was not so noticable, but IHL is not very revealing anyway. -- ciao Ban Bordighera, Italy |
#22
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#23
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Listening in a car
On 7/30/04 11:31 PM, in article goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54, "Stewart
Pinkerton" wrote: On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! Heard that! But you could also get one of the whizzy new hybrids (like the Toyota Prius) - at lower speeds, the engine turns off and it runs on batteries - making it VERY quiet! |
#24
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Listening in a car
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:59:49 GMT, B&D wrote:
On 7/30/04 1:44 PM, in article , "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? That's an entirely different matter. MP3 does not in and of itself sound bad, this only arises when you try to use excessive compression, i.e too low a bit rate, which for me on most music is anything less than 192kbits/sec. OTOH, most agree that AAC is a fundamentally superior compression algorithm, and it's becoming increasinly popular. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#25
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Listening in a car
B&D wrote:
On 7/30/04 11:31 PM, in article goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54, "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! Heard that! But you could also get one of the whizzy new hybrids (like the Toyota Prius) - at lower speeds, the engine turns off and it runs on batteries - making it VERY quiet! But there's more to car noise than engine noise. It Xway speeds tire/wind and road noise dominates. In stop and go traffic who knows what hybrids sound like. I sure don't. Most modern cars are pretty quiet at idle too. If you have some more detailed information I'd love to hear about it. |
#26
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Listening in a car
B&D wrote:
On 7/30/04 12:02 AM, in article , "chung" wrote: Uhh, mp3 provides data compression, not the signal compression that Norm was talking about. Mp3 does not give you a compression of dynamic range. Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. Can you provide any proof that mp3's roll off the high and the low frequencies? I don't think you could. Are you also saying that in a car, if you reduce bass and treble, the result is better or "easier" sound? That certainly goes against commonly known principles, like the one behind the loudness compensation. OK Chung - The sound of mp3's is perfect and just like CD's. I am totally wrong, and am not only wasting money but a damn fool for believing that CD sounds better than mp3's. No, the sound of mp3's is not perfect. The biggest variable contributing to sound quality is bit-rate. At high bitrates, like 320Kbps, it gets very close to the original. At low bit-rates, like 128Kbps, you can tell them apart. But even at 128Kbps, the bass and the treble are not rolled off. |
#27
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Listening in a car
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#28
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Listening in a car
On 7/31/04 2:24 PM, in article ptROc.202947$JR4.128822@attbi_s54, "Nousaine"
wrote: B&D wrote: On 7/30/04 11:31 PM, in article goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54, "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! Heard that! But you could also get one of the whizzy new hybrids (like the Toyota Prius) - at lower speeds, the engine turns off and it runs on batteries - making it VERY quiet! But there's more to car noise than engine noise. It Xway speeds tire/wind and road noise dominates. In stop and go traffic who knows what hybrids sound like. I sure don't. Most modern cars are pretty quiet at idle too. If you have some more detailed information I'd love to hear about it. Sorry to not have a ton of details - all I know is that at low speeds it goes into battery only mode and the people who drive them claim how spooky quiet it is in the cabin. I have no idea the dB levels or anything. I am sure Toyota has information. |
#29
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Listening in a car
On 7/31/04 12:43 PM, in article 7%POc.221125$XM6.17476@attbi_s53, "Stewart
Pinkerton" wrote: On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:59:49 GMT, B&D wrote: On 7/30/04 1:44 PM, in article , "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? That's an entirely different matter. MP3 does not in and of itself sound bad, this only arises when you try to use excessive compression, i.e too low a bit rate, which for me on most music is anything less than 192kbits/sec. OTOH, most agree that AAC is a fundamentally superior compression algorithm, and it's becoming increasinly popular. Thanks! I have listened to AAC and MP#, albeit at 128kbps - which seems to be a popular norm. This afternoon I ripped some Elvis Costello to 192kbps AAC - and the CD sounded better though iTunes on my Mac through some studio monitors (in the studio) and I noticed a difference, and the CD sounded much better - though not as different as at 128. I see what you mean. I can use Apple lossless and get it to 50% of size - and for the hard drive - since Gigs are cheap - it seems eaqsy to not have to decide on the amount of loss! |
#30
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Listening in a car
Ban wrote:
B&D wrote: Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? I made some comparisons with higher bitrates mp3. The sonic structure was kept very well, but the spacial impression got completely lost. What was deep soundstage extending beyond the speakers ended up on a line between the speakers. In headphones this was not so noticable, but IHL is not very revealing anyway. over on www.hydrogenaudio.org, they've done lots of controlled comparison testing of various encoders and decoders. And the upshot is that the best lossy implementations are pretty much indistinguishable from their sources, for all but the most difficult source material, by these criteria. Were your comparisons done rigorously? Using what encoders and decoders? At what bitrates? Using what material as a test? All of that matters. -- -S. "We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's. Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." -- David Lee Roth |
#31
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Listening in a car
On 7/31/04 10:55 AM, in article , "chung"
wrote: No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? But it is much easier just listing the ways you are wrong. You know, we all go for the low-hanging fruit! :-) No kidding - much easier to criticise than correct, yes? :-P Here is a website that explains how mp3's work in layman terms: http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/ When you said that mp3's sound "so bad", you are making an invalid assumption. I have listened to high bitrate mp3's and mp4's, and it is very difficult to tell the compressed version from the original. I would say that while not invalid, it is the particular use of the compression (the 90% reduction rate) makes it sound bad. Interesting link - thanks. You should download iTunes and try it for yourself. Make a CD of tracks that you encode into AAC or mp3 (and decompress to .wav format). Compare that with original. Try coding at 320Kbps; it gets very difficult to detect differences using music material. Just did - on my studio monitors (Project 6 self powered) I can begin to detect problems at around 192kbps using iTunes AAC. On my main stereo system, it is about 320kbps as you said where it is obvious if you are listening for it, but not if you aren't or aren't familiar with the CD. Given that the effective bitrate is 600-1000bps if you believe iTunes apple lossless encoding, that is around a 50% compression - which makes some sense. BTW, if you believe that mp3's sound so bad, why then did you say that they sound "much easier" in a car? Oh - I took some 192kbps compressed and put it back on CD in AIFF formet - and it didn't sound half bad - kind of like good FM radio (we have a couple of stations around here that take pride in good sound). Didn't sound as good as the original CD, but completely acceptable - easier on the ears, in fact! Thanks for the website & the info! |
#32
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Listening in a car
On 31 Jul 2004 21:21:09 GMT, B&D wrote:
On 7/31/04 2:24 PM, in article ptROc.202947$JR4.128822@attbi_s54, "Nousaine" wrote: B&D wrote: On 7/30/04 11:31 PM, in article goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54, "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! Heard that! But you could also get one of the whizzy new hybrids (like the Toyota Prius) - at lower speeds, the engine turns off and it runs on batteries - making it VERY quiet! But there's more to car noise than engine noise. It Xway speeds tire/wind and road noise dominates. In stop and go traffic who knows what hybrids sound like. I sure don't. Most modern cars are pretty quiet at idle too. If you have some more detailed information I'd love to hear about it. Sorry to not have a ton of details - all I know is that at low speeds it goes into battery only mode and the people who drive them claim how spooky quiet it is in the cabin. I have no idea the dB levels or anything. I am sure Toyota has information. In a Lexus LS400/430, you can't hear the engine anyway, unless you're accelerating hard. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#33
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Listening in a car
On 8/1/04 5:29 AM, in article NJ2Pc.225284$Oq2.65958@attbi_s52, "B&D"
wrote: BTW, if you believe that mp3's sound so bad, why then did you say that they sound "much easier" in a car? Oh - I took some 192kbps compressed and put it back on CD in AIFF formet - and it didn't sound half bad - kind of like good FM radio (we have a couple of stations around here that take pride in good sound). Didn't sound as good as the original CD, but completely acceptable - easier on the ears, in fact! Meant to say - Easier on the ears IN THE CAR than IN THE HOUSE on my stereo system. |
#34
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Listening in a car
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:48:56 GMT, B&D wrote:
On 7/31/04 10:56 AM, in article , "Ban" wrote: B&D wrote: Ah, but it does roll off the bass and treble making the sound much easier - What? No it doesn't! note that I said "works almost as well" - meaning that it may not be the same, but the limited BW (or apparent as such) works almost as well. No, you are simply flat-out *wrong*, MP3 has absolutely *no* such effects, it is purely a data reduction tool. Instead of listing the ways I am wrong - in your tgechnical knowledge - why does it sound so bad? I made some comparisons with higher bitrates mp3. The sonic structure was kept very well, but the spacial impression got completely lost. What was deep soundstage extending beyond the speakers ended up on a line between the speakers. In headphones this was not so noticable, but IHL is not very revealing anyway. CD has about 1.4Mbps - I think a song on average, if Apple lossless is to be believes is somewhere between 600-1100Mbps - so anything less than that might begin to sound compressed! The key difference is that with lossless compression, you do get the original CD quality, but with AAC/MP3, you are making use of a carefully-designed psychoacoustic algorithm which allows significantly greater compression without perceived loss of quality. I find it extremely difficult to tell the difference between 320kb/sec MP3 and original CD, even on music with considerable HF detail, such as cymbal work on jazz. OTOH, with 40GB to play with on an iPod, why not simply store your 1000 favourite tracks at full CD quality with lossless compression? Does anyone *seriously* have more tunes that they listen to on anything like a regular basis? -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Listening in a car
But it's not a "typical" 4-banger!!!
I have an a pair of 18 year old "126" chasis MB's and they are still quiet -- except for the occasional clunking of a sway bar -- Your point on the Lexus is well taken. Jack "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54... On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Listening in a car
On 8/1/04 10:42 AM, in article , "Stewart
Pinkerton" wrote: On 31 Jul 2004 21:21:09 GMT, B&D wrote: On 7/31/04 2:24 PM, in article ptROc.202947$JR4.128822@attbi_s54, "Nousaine" wrote: B&D wrote: On 7/30/04 11:31 PM, in article goEOc.200481$JR4.160108@attbi_s54, "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote: On 29 Jul 2004 23:39:38 GMT, (Nousaine) wrote: "John Walton" wrote: My advise to you young man, get a quiet car if you like listening to classical music! Even a 20 year old MB will be quieter than your typical 4-banger. Um, the majority of Mercs *are* 4-bangers! OTOH, try a Lexus for a quiet environment - and superior build quality! Heard that! But you could also get one of the whizzy new hybrids (like the Toyota Prius) - at lower speeds, the engine turns off and it runs on batteries - making it VERY quiet! But there's more to car noise than engine noise. It Xway speeds tire/wind and road noise dominates. In stop and go traffic who knows what hybrids sound like. I sure don't. Most modern cars are pretty quiet at idle too. If you have some more detailed information I'd love to hear about it. Sorry to not have a ton of details - all I know is that at low speeds it goes into battery only mode and the people who drive them claim how spooky quiet it is in the cabin. I have no idea the dB levels or anything. I am sure Toyota has information. In a Lexus LS400/430, you can't hear the engine anyway, unless you're accelerating hard. True - the Lexus really isolates you from the road. But a typical hybrid is about US$25k, Lexus a bit more (like 2x or more!) so it is horses for courses - or at least for budgets! :-) |
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Listening in a car
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:29:17 GMT, B&D wrote:
On 7/31/04 10:55 AM, in article , "chung" wrote: Here is a website that explains how mp3's work in layman terms: http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/ When you said that mp3's sound "so bad", you are making an invalid assumption. I have listened to high bitrate mp3's and mp4's, and it is very difficult to tell the compressed version from the original. I would say that while not invalid, it is the particular use of the compression (the 90% reduction rate) makes it sound bad. You cannot say that MP3 has a 90% data reduction rate, the compression ratio is entirely dependent on the bit rate. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Listening in a car
On 8/1/04 1:56 PM, in article , "Stewart
Pinkerton" wrote: On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:29:17 GMT, B&D wrote: On 7/31/04 10:55 AM, in article , "chung" wrote: Here is a website that explains how mp3's work in layman terms: http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/ When you said that mp3's sound "so bad", you are making an invalid assumption. I have listened to high bitrate mp3's and mp4's, and it is very difficult to tell the compressed version from the original. I would say that while not invalid, it is the particular use of the compression (the 90% reduction rate) makes it sound bad. You cannot say that MP3 has a 90% data reduction rate, the compression ratio is entirely dependent on the bit rate. IN this case, yes I can. In the particular use of compression in question, the data loss was ~90% (128kbps). I was speaking specifically, not *in general*. |
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