Because the thead in which I invited Arny Krueger to debate me
in New York next May was getting cluttered, I have reposted the
relevant messages here. For Mr. Krueger's and my convenience,
please post any further comments on this proposed debate in this
thread.

Arny Krueger responded to my invitation on December 7, in message
, "Of course that's a long way
from home, but let's see if I can put something together."

The ball is thus in his court.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

---------------------------------------------------------
In message . com
"John Atkinson" wrote
Michael McKelvy wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
You are the one who continually demands people take
responsibility for their actions, Mr. McKelvy. Why do you
excuse Arny Krueger from having to do likewise?

Just pick a place, I'm pretty sure if it's reasonable, Arny
will show up and debate YOU if you have the courage.

Okay, I invite Arny Krueger to Home Entertainment 2005, to be
held in Manhattan next May, to debate me one-on-one in front of
an audience. A free discussion. No restrictions on what subjects
Mr. Krueger wishes to talk about, although it is fair to include
a section where he and I have to answers questions from the
audience.

Stop mucking about with all the bull**** about fees and show
us what you actually know and what you can actually hear.

Okay, as you feel that no fee is appropriate for my response
to Tom Nousaine, no fee will be offered Mr. Krueger for his
appearance in New York, just reasonable expenses.

And

---------------------------------------------------------
In message .com
"John Atkinson" wrote:
Powell wrote:
"No restrictions on what subjects", "let's see if I can
put something together"... of course neither of you
really mean what you're offering.

I don't see how you can say that, Mr. Powell. If he accepts my
invitation, I will provide Mr. Krueger with a public forum,
specifically a lecture room with an audience, to debate me on
any subject either of us thinks appropriate. As I said, I also
think it appropriate for both us to take questions from the
audience. And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses,
specifically a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights
accommodation inthe Show hotel.

All this I think reasonable. I see no reason why this debate
could not take place next May along the lines I have suggested.
---------------------------------------------------------

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because the thead in which I invited Arny Krueger to debate me
in New York next May was getting cluttered, I have reposted the
relevant messages here. For Mr. Krueger's and my convenience,
please post any further comments on this proposed debate in this
thread.

Arny Krueger responded to my invitation on December 7, in message
, "Of course that's a long way
from home, but let's see if I can put something together."

The ball is thus in his court.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Is there room for a third position in between the two of you?
I promise to be radical, strident, and insulting.

Robert Morein wrote:
Is there room for a third position in between the two of you?
I promise to be radical, strident, and insulting.

Sorry, Mr. Morein. Mr. Krueger and myself is the plan. But you
are welcome to put a question to both us from the audience.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Paul Dormer wrote:
I am trying to locate a response from Mr Krueger, regarding
his proposed attendance at said function. So far I have failed
to find anything like a committment but perhaps my news server
is playing up.

Mr. Krueger has yet to respond, but there's no rush. We don't start
work on finalizing the events program for Home Entertainment 2005
until the New Year.

Audio recording has already been mentioned.. but I do wonder
whether Mr Krueger would have any objection to a video recording
being made.

I don't have any objection to the event being video'd, other than
the additional complexity of setting up a streamed video feed to
the Web.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:11:30 +0000, Paul Dormer
wrote:

"John Atkinson" emitted :

Sorry, Mr. Morein. Mr. Krueger and myself is the plan. But you
are welcome to put a question to both us from the audience.

I am trying to locate a response from Mr Krueger, regarding his
proposed attendance at said function. So far I have failed to find
anything like a committment but perhaps my news server is playing up.

Audio recording has already been mentioned.. but I do wonder whether
Mr Krueger would have any objection to a video recording being made.

John's dad say "Smell-O-Vision extra crispy!"

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Is there room for a third position in between the two of you?
I promise to be radical, strident, and insulting.



Such as my politics. I am a radical centrist.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Is there room for a third position in between the two of you?
I promise to be radical, strident, and insulting.



Such as my politics. I am a radical centrist.

Foul! You are a deviate apostate radical centrist!

"John Atkinson" wrote in
oups.com:


Paul Dormer wrote:
I am trying to locate a response from Mr Krueger, regarding
his proposed attendance at said function. So far I have failed
to find anything like a committment but perhaps my news server
is playing up.

Mr. Krueger has yet to respond, but there's no rush. We don't start
work on finalizing the events program for Home Entertainment 2005
until the New Year.

Audio recording has already been mentioned.. but I do wonder
whether Mr Krueger would have any objection to a video recording
being made.

I don't have any objection to the event being video'd, other than
the additional complexity of setting up a streamed video feed to
the Web.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile


Personally I think the debate would be good for Arny. Arny will be able
to finally "slay the dragon" in public and in front of the industry's most
prominent luminaries. He will be able to expose the "snake oil"
proponents once and for all and possibly revolutionize the industry for
the better.

Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position to get
some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"R" wrote in message
. ..
"John Atkinson" wrote in
oups.com:


Paul Dormer wrote:
I am trying to locate a response from Mr Krueger, regarding
his proposed attendance at said function. So far I have failed
to find anything like a committment but perhaps my news server
is playing up.

Mr. Krueger has yet to respond, but there's no rush. We don't start
work on finalizing the events program for Home Entertainment 2005
until the New Year.

Audio recording has already been mentioned.. but I do wonder
whether Mr Krueger would have any objection to a video recording
being made.

I don't have any objection to the event being video'd, other than
the additional complexity of setting up a streamed video feed to
the Web.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile


Personally I think the debate would be good for Arny. Arny will be able
to finally "slay the dragon" in public and in front of the industry's most
prominent luminaries. He will be able to expose the "snake oil"
proponents once and for all and possibly revolutionize the industry for
the better.

Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position to get
some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

r


Yeah, Yeah! Go Arny, go for it!!!

"R" wrote in message


Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position to
get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33 EST 12/8
post.

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Why am I not commenting futher on this?

The OP looked like flypaper for RAO's usual list of suspects. It turned out
that way.

Maybe I should present myself to Radi for psychic testing. ;-)

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


correction:

Maybe I should present myself to Randi for psychic testing. ;-)

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"R" wrote in message
.1

Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position to
get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33 EST 12/8
post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically
a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in
the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from Detroit"
actually means a round trip ticket.

I know that you're more of a van-type person, so you might not be
aware of this.

Why am I not commenting futher on this?

The OP looked like flypaper for RAO's usual list of suspects. It turned out
that way.

Maybe I should present myself to Radi for psychic testing. ;-)

dave weil wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"R" wrote in message
. 1

Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position to
get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33 EST
12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically
a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in
the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from Detroit"
actually means a round trip ticket.



I do believe that Dave is correct.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that it is a one way. If that is
the case, I will pay for the other half of the ticket.

So there you go! Free trip!

Arny, anything else you need?

r



--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"R" wrote in message
. 1
dave weil wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"R" wrote in message


Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position
to get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33
EST 12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically
a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in
the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from Detroit"
actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He may be. It's not audio, so he may know something about it.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that it is a one way. If that
is the case, I will pay for the other half of the ticket.

In fact, both halves might or might not be useful.

So there you go! Free trip!

Not a problem.

Arny, anything else you need?

I need help so I stop laughing at the childish antics of the usual list of
RAO suspects, who are obviously putting on what they think is a great show
for their hero/leader/mentor Atkinson.

R wrote:
dave weil wrote in
:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"

wrote:
"R" wrote in message
. 1
Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a
position
to get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33
EST 12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses,
specifically a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2
nights accommodation in the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from
Detroit" actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He is. My apologies if I confused anyone with my English usage.
By "return ticket," I meant "round trip," "Detroit to NYC and back
again," "both directions." By "coach," I meant "economy," "main
cabin," "not first class," "not business class," etc.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:46:17 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


I do believe that Dave is correct.

He may be.

I am.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that it is a one way. If that
is the case, I will pay for the other half of the ticket.

In fact, both halves might or might not be useful.

So there you go! Free trip!

Not a problem.

Arny, anything else you need?

I need help so I stop laughing at the childish antics of the usual list of
RAO suspects, who are obviously putting on what they think is a great show
for their hero/leader/mentor Atkinson.

You must be kidding. First of all, you make a gross error about
something that most people know, then you compound the error by
claiming that it's a "childish antic" to correct you on your error.

BTW, the first three words of your last sentence are SOOO true. YOu
should listen to yourself.

On 9 Dec 2004 07:57:56 -0800, "John Atkinson"
wrote:


R wrote:
dave weil wrote in
:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"

wrote:
"R" wrote in message
. 1
Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a
position
to get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33
EST 12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses,
specifically a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2
nights accommodation in the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from
Detroit" actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He is. My apologies if I confused anyone with my English usage.
By "return ticket," I meant "round trip," "Detroit to NYC and back
again," "both directions." By "coach," I meant "economy," "main
cabin," "not first class," "not business class," etc.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Yes, that's pretty common terminology, using the term "return ticket".
Additionally, the phrase "return ticket from..." somebody's home
location would tip off most people who are even barely conversant with
the English language that it means leaving from their home location
and returning to said home location.

But this is Arnold that we're dealing with.

I wonder what his next attempt to claim that you didn't say what you
said will be. After all, you thought that you were keeping things as
simple as possible. Unfortunately, you're dealing with omeone simpler.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"R" wrote in message
. 1
dave weil wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"R" wrote in message


Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a position
to get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33
EST 12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically
a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in
the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from Detroit"
actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He may be. It's not audio, so he may know something about it.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that it is a one way. If that
is the case, I will pay for the other half of the ticket.

In fact, both halves might or might not be useful.

So there you go! Free trip!

Not a problem.

Arny, anything else you need?

I need help so I stop laughing at the childish antics of the usual list
of RAO suspects, who are obviously putting on what they think is a great
show for their hero/leader/mentor Atkinson.




Don't forget the other side of the coin. There are those that would like
nothing better than to see the underdog (you in this case) prevail at the
debate. Personally I think it would be interesting.

r

"Rich.Andrews" wrote in message
...
Don't forget the other side of the coin. There are those that would like
nothing better than to see the underdog (you in this case) prevail at the
debate. Personally I think it would be interesting.


By underdog, do you mean that he's JA's bitch?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Rich.Andrews" wrote in message
...
Don't forget the other side of the coin. There are those that would
like nothing better than to see the underdog (you in this case)
prevail at the debate. Personally I think it would be interesting.


By underdog, do you mean that he's JA's bitch?

Yup, Art keeps dragging things down until they are at his level.

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...

R wrote:
dave weil wrote in
:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"

wrote:
"R" wrote in message
. 1
Go for it Arny. It would be a free trip and you are in a
position
to get some free press too. You could end up a true hero.

Try re-reading the terms and conditions again in Atkinson's 07:33
EST 12/8 post.

No such post on my server.

I guess you need to quote the relevant passage.

The only thing I can find is this (from the 7th):

"And as I also said, I will pay Mr. Krueger's expenses,
specifically a return coach air ticket from Detroit and 2
nights accommodation in the Show hotel".

It's not a free trip. It's a free trip home.

Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from
Detroit" actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He is. My apologies if I confused anyone with my English usage.

Yew gots ta lurn ta speek Amurikun.


Two countries, separated by a common language.

Michael McKelvy wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
R wrote:
dave weil wrote in
:
Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from
Detroit" actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He is. My apologies if I confused anyone with my English usage.

Yew gots ta lurn ta speek Amurikun.

Thank you for your advice, Mr. McKelvy.

But as I have you on the line, as it were, I am curious why,
given how much you have posted to the Newgroups regarding people
you regard as not willing to defend their opinions in public, you
have nothing to say regarding my invitation to Arny Krueger to a
debate with me at Home Entertainment 2005 in May. After all, it
_was_ your original suggestion.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...

Michael McKelvy wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
R wrote:
dave weil wrote in
:
Maybe you don't know that "a "return coach air ticket from
Detroit" actually means a round trip ticket.

I do believe that Dave is correct.

He is. My apologies if I confused anyone with my English usage.

Yew gots ta lurn ta speek Amurikun.

Thank you for your advice, Mr. McKelvy.

But as I have you on the line, as it were, I am curious why,
given how much you have posted to the Newgroups regarding people
you regard as not willing to defend their opinions in public, you
have nothing to say regarding my invitation to Arny Krueger to a
debate with me at Home Entertainment 2005 in May. After all, it
_was_ your original suggestion.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

There's not a lot to comment on until something actually happens.


It sounds like it would be interesting.
I hope schedule permits him to attend.
I haven't seen anything saying that he has accepted or declined.

"John Atkinson" wrote

Robert Morein wrote:
Is there room for a third position in between the two of you?
I promise to be radical, strident, and insulting.

Sorry, Mr. Morein. Mr. Krueger and myself is the plan. But you
are welcome to put a question to both us from the audience.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Well, ok... I'll buy that, John. But consider this. I think Robert
is well qualified to record and produce the multimedia event.
And to do so with clean hands. A room and travel expenses
for him would be a good value and a good faith offer on your
part.

"John Atkinson" wrote

Because the thead in which I invited Arny Krueger to debate me
in New York next May was getting cluttered, I have reposted the
relevant messages here. For Mr. Krueger's and my convenience,
please post any further comments on this proposed debate in this
thread.

Arny Krueger responded to my invitation on December 7, in message
"Of course that's a long way from home, but let's see if I can put
something together."

The ball is thus in his court.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

OK, you've kicked the tires. What is the substance and
motivation of your offer, really? Are you prepared to
enter into an enforcable written agreement? Obviously,
you cannot consummate any agreement between hostile
parties on USEnet.


"No restrictions on what subjects", "let's see if I can
put something together"... of course neither of you
really mean what you're offering.

I don't see how you can say that, Mr. Powell. If he accepts my
invitation, I will provide Mr. Krueger with a public forum,
specifically a lecture room with an audience, to debate me on
any subject either of us thinks appropriate.

"either of us thinks appropriate"... so this wouldn't
necessarily be an unilateral agreement (Law,
pertaining to a contract in which obligation rests on one
party only), right? You said, "No restrictions," that would
mean that Arny doesn't require your approval of his
agenda, no? Which is it, censorship (your approval) or
autonomy for Arny?


As I said, I also think it appropriate for both us to take
questions from the audience. And as I also said, I will
pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically a return coach
air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in the
Show hotel.

Fine, great idea. It would be appropriate for you to have a
Talent Contract (work for hire) with Arny. And if your offer is
sincere there should also be a hold harmless addendum
shielding Arny from any concerns that the incident could be
used to advance a litigation. You've often alluded to litigation
in past posts.

And since you also mentioned recording the spectacle, it
should be made public that the multimedia format you
intend to release is “fair use and royalty free” to anyone.

Oh, and let's not forget the money. He turned down $1K
last time. Seems like you should step up to the plate with
some real money this time, if you expect your offer to be
taken seriously.


All this I think reasonable. I see no reason why this debate
could not take place next May along the lines I have
suggested.

"Reasonable"... no two people can agree on what
that constitutes. It usually requires 12 opened minded
people confined to a tiny little room .

In a debate with Arny, how can you assure Arny/anyone
that your representation will be forthright and not just
representing the interest of your employer, your first duty?
I don’t think your handlers want a loose cannon on stage
or negative repercussions afterwards... so what makes
this offer legitimate and not merely a dog and pony show
or just a R.A.O. stunt to kick-the-tires again (1999
Debacle )?

Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate and the
substance of any agreement is not your concern. I have outlined my
basic ideas on the matter. As I said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger
to offer _his_ thoughts.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Paul Dormer wrote:
should this come off - might you field a
couple of questions from folks who are unable to attend?

It's pretty standard to have write-in questions. If Mr. Krueger has no
objection, we could actively call for some questions ahead of time.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in
oups.com:


Paul Dormer wrote:
should this come off - might you field a
couple of questions from folks who are unable to attend?

It's pretty standard to have write-in questions. If Mr. Krueger has no
objection, we could actively call for some questions ahead of time.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile



I think that some of the questions should be known ahead of time and by
both parties. I would be rather pointless if the questions all consisted
of the type "Have you stopped beating your spouse yet?" I also think
there needs to be some rules similar to the rules of a presidental debate
applied. Time limits on responses, limits on counterpoints. Halting the
debate if the response goes off topic.

Arny and John, what do you think about the proposed rules?

r



--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
Paul Dormer wrote:
should this come off - might you field a
couple of questions from folks who are unable to attend?

It's pretty standard to have write-in questions. If Mr. Krueger has no
objection, we could actively call for some questions ahead of time.

No objections.

"R" wrote in message


I think that some of the questions should be known ahead of time and
by both parties. I would be rather pointless if the questions all
consisted of the type "Have you stopped beating your spouse yet?" I
also think there needs to be some rules similar to the rules of a
presidental debate applied. Time limits on responses, limits on
counterpoints. Halting the debate if the response goes off topic.

Arny and John, what do you think about the proposed rules?

I don't see a concrete proposal.

I figure that if Atkinson takes up all the time with his usual long-winded
pontifications, I'll surely avoid saying something that I might not be happy
with later on. ;-)

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
ups.com
Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate and the
substance of any agreement is not your concern. I have outlined my
basic ideas on the matter. As I said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger
to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and place and
see what shakes.

R wrote:
Arny and John, what do you think about the proposed rules?

As I said to Mr. Powell, this is really up to Arny Krueger and
myself. Involving third parties in the discussion of the details
is going to make things very confusing very quickly. Arny Krueger
has said he will consider my invitation, so I will wait to see what
he eventually has to say about it.

John Atkinsn
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote

Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your
offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate
and the substance of any agreement is not your concern.

Next time don't start a new thread with my name on it
if you don't want an honest commentary about your
professionalism, or lack thereof. Hissy-fit noted.


I have outlined my basic ideas on the matter. As I
said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to
offer _his_ thoughts.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Arny wrote "My thoughts are that I intend to show up at
the specified time and place and see what shakes."

Enough said on the subject? Satisfied? Ready
to make business commitments? Do the metaphors
about "crying wolf" or "once bitten, twice shy" mean
anything to you? I think you're ready for another
life lesson, Atkinson, Krueger style .

"George M. Middius" wrote

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate and the
substance of any agreement is not your concern. I have outlined my
basic ideas on the matter. As I said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger
to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and place
and see what shakes.

What a crock. I can hear the excuses now. "Can't go because
I, broke my leg. LOt"S!" Or "My militia commander ordered me
to report for training exercise's." Or "I'm not going unless Nousiane
get's to go, too."

Once a liar, always a liar. The Kroo-liar.

It's all about behavior expectations and civility. I know
you don't mind waiting for Arny to change, George .

Powell wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote
Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer,
really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate
and the substance of any agreement is not your concern.

Next time don't start a new thread with my name on it
if you don't want an honest commentary about your
professionalism, or lack thereof. Hissy-fit noted.

I am sorry for being brusque, Mr. Powell. But I really think
that third parties others such as yourself injecting yourselves
into the negotiations confuse things rather than help. But please
note I didn't "start a new thread with [your] name on it." I have
no idea what you mean by that, unless you are objecting to my
quoting your original question to me.

I have outlined my basic ideas on the matter. As I
said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to offer _his_
thoughts.

Arny wrote "My thoughts are that I intend to show up at
the specified time and place and see what shakes."

Enough said on the subject? Satisfied? Ready to make
business commitments?

As you will note, I have asked Arny Krueger if this response means
he is accepting my invitation. Please note that taken literally,
his response is not equivalent to accepting my invitation, only
that _that_ is what he is thinking of. Once I get a clear
commitment from Mr. Kreuger, I will arrange for the debate to
take place.

Do the metaphors about "crying wolf" or "once bitten, twice
shy" mean anything to you? I think you're ready for another
life lesson, Atkinson, Krueger style .

We shall see, Mr. Powell. My invitation was indeed serious.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
ups.com
I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and
place and see what shakes.

Is this a "yes," Mr. Krueger? I'm just asking for clarification,
because
once you give me a definite positive answer, I have to commit to a
not-inconsiderable expenditu the meeting room cost, your round-trip
plane fare, and your hotel room cost.

(For yours and my convenience I posted my invitation to you in
message .com)

But as I said earlier, I am not pressuring you for a commitment either
way right now. The deadline will be early February, because after that
it will be difficult for me to get the debate/discussion/whatever you
wish to call it included in the show program.

I will give you my *final answer* by the end of January, if that's all right
with you.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

The Big **** lays the groundwork for his latest cowardly running away.

But as I said earlier, I am not pressuring you for a commitment
either way right now. The deadline will be early February, because
after that it will be difficult for me to get the
debate/discussion/whatever you wish to call it included in the show
program.

I will give you my *final answer* by the end of January, if that's
all right with you.

I can give your "final answer" right now: No show.

You're such a stupe Middius. You're so stupid and arrogant that I'm going to
play you like a fiddle, and even tell you how I'm playing like a fiddle. I'm
going to delay answering just so you can make comments like this all the
livelong day, night, you name it. Then when everybody is convinced of your
position in the matter... ;-)

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

****-for-Brains rages impotently.

I can give your "final answer" right now: No show.

You're such a stupe Middius. You're so stupid and arrogant that I'm
going to play you like a fiddle, and even tell you how I'm playing
like a fiddle. I'm going to delay answering just so you can make
comments like this all the livelong day, night, you name it. Then
when everybody is convinced of your position in the matter... ;-)

Do you think you're fooling anybody, Turdborg? You're already in full
meltdown. Already, you're reduced to nonsensical ranting. The only
weasel-move you haven't tried for running away from Lord Atkinson is
the "George made me do it" excuse. As in, "George was mean to me so
I'm not going to play!" Or "George didn't give me a chance to think
up a good excuse!"

Prove me wrong, you disgusting sack of ****. Go and face your imagined
nemesis, and risk having your head handed to you in front of the
entire world. If you go, I'll be glad to eat my words. But I know I
won't have to, you chicken**** piece of garbage.

Obviously Middius, this isn't a meltdown because you're too good for that!

LOL!

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


****-for-Brains rages impotently.

I can give your "final answer" right now: No show.

You're such a stupe Middius. You're so stupid and arrogant that I'm going
to
play you like a fiddle, and even tell you how I'm playing like a fiddle.
I'm
going to delay answering just so you can make comments like this all the
livelong day, night, you name it. Then when everybody is convinced of
your
position in the matter... ;-)

Do you think you're fooling anybody, Turdborg? You're already in full
meltdown. Already, you're reduced to nonsensical ranting. The only
weasel-move you haven't tried for running away from Lord Atkinson is the
"George made me do it" excuse. As in, "George was mean to me so I'm not
going to play!" Or "George didn't give me a chance to think up a good
excuse!"

Prove me wrong, you disgusting sack of ****. Go and face your imagined
nemesis, and risk having your head handed to you in front of the entire
world. If you go, I'll be glad to eat my words. But I know I won't have
to, you chicken**** piece of garbage.


Arny needs till the end of January to develop some phoney
issue as an excuse for bailing out.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:58:31 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:


"George M. Middius" wrote in message
.. .


****-for-Brains rages impotently.

I can give your "final answer" right now: No show.

You're such a stupe Middius. You're so stupid and arrogant that I'm going
to
play you like a fiddle, and even tell you how I'm playing like a fiddle.
I'm
going to delay answering just so you can make comments like this all the
livelong day, night, you name it. Then when everybody is convinced of
your
position in the matter... ;-)

Do you think you're fooling anybody, Turdborg? You're already in full
meltdown. Already, you're reduced to nonsensical ranting. The only
weasel-move you haven't tried for running away from Lord Atkinson is the
"George made me do it" excuse. As in, "George was mean to me so I'm not
going to play!" Or "George didn't give me a chance to think up a good
excuse!"

Prove me wrong, you disgusting sack of ****. Go and face your imagined
nemesis, and risk having your head handed to you in front of the entire
world. If you go, I'll be glad to eat my words. But I know I won't have
to, you chicken**** piece of garbage.


Arny needs till the end of January to develop some phoney
issue as an excuse for bailing out.

Actually, I think that he's going to show. Why shouldn't he? He gets
his head handed to him daily on the internet, but he's so delusional
that he takes some sort of pride from it. Why not get a free trip to
NYC out of the deal?

Frankly, I think it's a no-win for JA, but that's just me, I guess. At
least it's a tax deduction, I suppose.

PS. RIP Frederick Fennell