[Stephen[_2_]]

Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

west

[Patrick Turner]

Stephen wrote:

Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

west

see the website at http://www.turneraudio.com.au
Some various chassis types used.

But all real chassis, with sockets bolted to the metal sheets and real
point to point.

I have never made a printed circuit board.

Patrick Turner.

[Jon Yaeger]

in article guAnj.39388$75.10603@trnddc05, Stephen at
wrote on 1/29/08 2:21 AM:

Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small.

Pest,

*** "Another" project? Surely, if you had done even a few projects from
scratch, you would already know the pros & cons of each. However, I
understand that the reason why you post is to get attention -- I don't
believe you are truly seeking answers.

*** If it's attention you want, why not go to rec.audio.marketplace and
submit a topic such as, "Bob Morein for President" or "Brian McCarty renders
a helpful service?"

I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

*** I think you need to figure out how to search the Google Archives and
stop being so lazy. Granted, based upon the way that you butcher the King's
English, this resource may be beyond your grasp.

west

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 29, 2:21*am, "Stephen" wrote:
Hi Gents, *Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

west

Pillock:

Hmm... who was it that just wrote: STOP GETTING OTHERS TO DO YOUR WORK
FOR YOU.... or words to that effect...

Uh-oh... that would be you.

The Old West: 71.98.181.73
The New West: 71.98.181.73
Stephen: 71.98.181.73

Trying new identities are we? Y'all need to persuade your keeper(s) to
let you out to some other computer every so often so it won't be so
obvious that it is the same silly pillock behind it all.

As to the enclosure question: For about the same cost as 1.5 hours of
local shop time (here in the northeast), one can purchase very
reasonable chassis and enclosures from any of several sources
including Hammond and Vector amongs others. Made in the USA, even. In
aluminum or steel, or even hybrids of either using Lexan or other
plastics. Jon Yaeger, even. You live in the United States - there are
specialists out there who do this stuff for a living in quantity such
that you will save both time and money by availing yourself of their
services. Put that into the components you are choosing... perhaps
even Lundahl transformers. But at least have a look on your own behalf
instead of insisting on received wisdom.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[West]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 29, 2:21 am, "Stephen" wrote:
Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it
would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

west

Pillock:

Hmm... who was it that just wrote: STOP GETTING OTHERS TO DO YOUR WORK
FOR YOU.... or words to that effect...

Uh-oh... that would be you.

The Old West: 71.98.181.73
The New West: 71.98.181.73
Stephen: 71.98.181.73

Trying new identities are we? Y'all need to persuade your keeper(s) to
let you out to some other computer every so often so it won't be so
obvious that it is the same silly pillock behind it all.

As to the enclosure question: For about the same cost as 1.5 hours of
local shop time (here in the northeast), one can purchase very
reasonable chassis and enclosures from any of several sources
including Hammond and Vector amongs others. Made in the USA, even. In
aluminum or steel, or even hybrids of either using Lexan or other
plastics. Jon Yaeger, even. You live in the United States - there are
specialists out there who do this stuff for a living in quantity such
that you will save both time and money by availing yourself of their
services. Put that into the components you are choosing... perhaps
even Lundahl transformers. But at least have a look on your own behalf
instead of insisting on received wisdom.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Thanks for all the guidance but I'm trying to focus on aluminum vs. steel
chassis. Naturally, I know some obvious differences but would like to know
if anyone used one type and wished they used the other and why. Thanks the
same.
BTW: my brother Steve was using my computer for a while until I fixed his.
That's why the different name. I knew you would be the one to pick it up. I
hope that Yaeger feels better. He sounds like he's in a bad mood. I will try
to be more careful with my writing in the future and thank him for the
head's up.

Cordially,
west

[dre7]

I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine, excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look that
patinas nicely.

Andrew


Stephen wrote in message
news:guAnj.39388$75.10603@trnddc05...
Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it
would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.

west

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 29, 5:13*pm, Bret Ludwig wrote:

*There are several styles that you can build with minimal tooling. A
drill press and a vise will let you build a lot, a simple sheet metal
brake even more.

Sure. Aluminum to 14 gauge and mild steel to 18 gauge are within my
tooling and skill-set. Likely that or better for you based on your
many posts on the subject.

But as far as pillock is concerned, the sharpest thing I would put in
his hands would be a rubber spoon, crimp-connectors and kynar-coated
twist-wire. Otherwise, there would be a need for a finger-count every
few minutes and a fire company on stand-by. On that note, purchasing a
ready-made unit for a fraction of pay-others-machine-time would be his
best option.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 29, 4:31*pm, "West" wrote:

BTW: my brother Steve was using my computer for a while until I fixed his.
That's why the different name.

Pillock:

That would hold water if _you_ were using _his_ computer. But if he
were using yours, the default would be your signature, not his.

And, of course, it is many more than "Stephen" from New York" that are
leaving their droppings across usenet, all from the same IP.

One more lie from you, a never ending source of the same.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[West]

"dre7" wrote in message
. ..
I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine, excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look that
patinas nicely.

Andrew

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. You're the first one almost on target. I
just would like to compare and contrast 2 metals.
If you're wondering about my ankle nippers, it's simple.
The children of the light and the children of the dark do not get along, not
only here, but worldwide.

[Jon Yaeger]

in article dVTnj.6932$ZO5.1207@trnddc03, West at wrote on
1/30/08 12:27 AM:


"dre7" wrote in message
. ..
I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine, excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look that
patinas nicely.

Andrew

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. You're the first one almost on target. I
just would like to compare and contrast 2 metals.
If you're wondering about my ankle nippers, it's simple.
The children of the light and the children of the dark do not get along, not
only here, but worldwide.




O.K. douchebag, here's a draft of an article that I was writing for
publication. I am fully aware that no good deed goes unpunished . . .

*****

Title: Chassis Layout and Finishing Tips

Tube hobbyists spend many hours and dollars on pet projects, often without
much attention to final appearance.

A tube project need not look like a discarded relic from Frankenstein¹s
laboratory. With a small investment in hand tools, combined with patience,
planning, and care, you can achieve professional and aesthetically-pleasing
results.

Creating something that looks nice has benefits: 1) your spouse may
actually allow it in the living room; 2) you won¹t need to explain to
friends that it is ³just a prototype,² and 3) it increases the project¹s
value and appeal.


Chassis Considerations

Cost. You can house a project for less than a hundred dollars, or spend
many times that, according to your goals and preferences.

Starting from scratch with raw materials might seem the least expensive, but
it is rarely so. Raw materials usually are sold in bulk form; machinery and
tools are needed to bend, cut, form, and fabricate them. Consider also the
value of the time and labor required.

Choosing a chassis based on lowest cost is short-sighted when you consider
the cost of the glass and iron that sits upon it. A wise plan is to pick a
solution that optimizes appearance and ease of use or function.

A ready-made chassis offers both economy and simplicity, with costs ranging
from about $50 to $250.

If cost is no obstacle, you can hire a professional fabrication or machine
shop to build the chassis of your dreams. Professional results are almost
guaranteed, but at a steep price for single-unit quantities. Fabrication
shops are best when doing production runs, where the set-up and tooling
costs can be spread among several units.


Design vs. Purchase. Making a custom chassis is challenging for many
hobbyists, and it has its own rewards. Those who prefer to "roll their own"
have a wide variety of materials and options to choose from, such as wood,
aluminum, copper, or or a combination of substances.

The simplest designs consist of a piece of sheet metal mounted on a wooden
frame. Unless you choose a rare or exotic wood, the wooden frame approach is
inexpensive and a basic frame may be crafted at home with common tools.
However, mounting input and output connectors is a bit more of a challenge,
due to the wood¹s thickness. Also, wood does not shield against electrical
interference and noise.

Wood is easy to work. Best results are attained with the aid of power tools
such as table saws, routers, and sanders, which are costly and require
workspace.

Nonetheless, making a professional looking chassis requires a combination of
skill and craftsmanship and the proper tools, which are not readily
available to everyone. Perhaps the driving consideration is the availability
of a suitable prefabricated enclosure. If your design employs a lot of tubes
or unusual iron, you may have little choice than to design your own.

Some vendors sell prepunched chassis; others will machine a custom front
panel for a reasonable price. A prepunched chassis has the benefit of
eliminating most or all of the maching requirements, at the loss of some
design and layout flexibility.

There are just a few major manufacturers of prefabricated chassis; most are
³boutique² producers. Some advertise in this publication - others may be
found on Internet or in electrical supply catalogs. See the vendor list that
follows this article.

The focus of this article will be upon working with a prefabricated chassis.


Prefabricated chassis and enclosures

Prefabricated metal chasses offer structural strength and affordability, and
don¹t require a professionally-equipped shop to complete. A variety of
features, compositions and finishes are available.

Bare metal products are the cheapest and offer the most options for colors
and finishes; for example, steel can be painted or plated with nickel or
chrome. Unfortunately, bare metal requires extra preparation steps for
painting; aluminum should be etched. Popular ³hardware store² spray paints
seldom adhere well, even to properly prepared surfaces.

If you are tempted to try your hand at painting, do an adhesion test first.
It can save a lot of time and grief.

Paint a clean sample of the same material. Avoid using soap when cleaning
metal, especially aluminum, because it makes the surface slick and unfriendy
to paint.
Allow the sample to fully dry and apply cellophane tape (carton sealing tape
works well) to the surface. Remove the tape. If any paint lifts up, the
finish has failed.

I usually hire a professional paint facility such as an auto repair or sheet
metal fabrication shop to paint my projects. They have the proper tools,
experience, and environment to do a durable and professional-looking job,
and I don¹t run the risk of overspray in my garage.

Due to the toxicity of the chemical processes involved, nickel or chrome
plating should be left to the pros. If you can¹t find a plating facility
nearby, contact a motorcycle repair shop for a referral. Note that plated
finishes are difficult to label or decorate.


Selecting a Metal Chassis

The first step is to determine the dimensional and structural requirements.
Lay out all of the ³above deck² components on a flat surface or grid to
determine the length and width. Then determine the height requirement by
considering what will be mounted inside.

I try to use no more height than necessary. A tall chassis has a ³boxy²
look; slim is more elegant, if that word can be used.

Prefabricated chasses come in sizes that the manufacturer hopes to sell.
These may not be optimal for your project, so you may have to adjust your
layout to fit. Some enclosures have optional front panels, rack-mount
hardware or tube cages.

The second step is to determine the type and thickness of the sheet metal
needed. Aluminum is easier to machine compared to steel, but steel is
stronger and better for supporting heavy power and output transformers. If
your project has heavy transformers, it is best to use at least 20 gauge
steel or thick aluminum plate.

If the plate is 1/8² thick or more, you can drill and tap threads for
mounting components directly to the plate, without the need for nuts and
washers.

My preference is to select a prepainted metal chassis. Glossy finishes look
great when new but reveal the smallest scratches and defects; flat paint
hide best but is dull. A semi-gloss or semi-flat finish is a good choice.


Component Layout

Give careful consideration to component layout. For example, leave ample
space between output tubes; mount transformers so that their windings are
perpendicular to each other to prevent coupling, etc. Mount heavy items near
the corners for structural strength. Make provisions for parts mounted
underneath, and internal clearances.

Draft and print component layout and drilling template prior to machining
the chassis. Place a thick piece of protective paper on top of the chassis.
Arrange the major components on top of the paper and note their rough
positions.

Almost any mechanical drawing program will do. I use Canvas® by Deneba®; it
is available for both Macintosh® and Windows® platforms, and is easy to use.
Use a grid and draw the components actual size. Most programs have
alignment and spacing options to achieve balanced positioning.

Place a small dot at the center of each tube socket and every round
component. These dots are used to mark initial drill points, so make them
as small as practical. Refer to the template shown by Figure 1,

Square or rectangular shapes are usually cut out with an electric scroll or
jig saw equipped with a suitable metal-cutting blade. Holes are drilled at
the corners of the quadrilateral large enough to accommodate the blade. For
these shapes, draw circles the diameter of the final drill bit and place
them within the corners. Then mark pilot holes in the centers of the drill
circles.

Mark the corners of your drawing to make it easier to align to your work.

Most chassis are larger than a standard sheet of paper. You may have to
print your drawing on multiple pages and join them together. Or have a print
shop output the drawing on large format paper or film.

You will need to firmly affix the drawing to the chassis so that it cannot
move. Templates can be printed on sheets of adhesive-backed label stock,
which work well on durable finishes such as powder coated metal, but with an
important caveat: the adhesive is tough to remove.

After I peel the paper off of the work, I remove remaining residue with
automotive bug remover (petroleum naptha). Solvents will damage or remove
less durable finishes. Test the adhesive paper and solvent beforehand.


Drilling and Machining

Safety guildelines are intended to preserve eyes and fingers. Follow them
even if your disability policy is up to date. Eye protection is essential *
drill bits often break and metal filings become airborne. I have compiled a
brief list of basic safety tips for this article.

Protect your work. Metal filings and drill shavings are sharp and can easily
mar a finish. Place soft material on your work table so the work will not
be scratched as it moves about.

It is wise to cover exposed surfaces with regular or adhesive paper, even if
you do not use a printed drill template. It is easy for a drill bit to
slip, or for metal shavings to mar the surface. It is a shame to get 90%
complete, only to experience a mishap.



Safety Tips

1. Always wear safety goggles when drilling or machining sheet metal
2. Remove ties and avoid loose fitting clothing
3. Use a slow speed drill when drilling metal
4. Be careful of sharp edges and metal shavings
5. Do not force a drill, or the bit may break
6. Make sure all power tools are properly grounded
7. Wear gloves when handling sheet metal


Construction Tips

1. When possible, choose a prepainted chassis
2. Never clean bare aluminum with soap.
3. Make a drill template before drilling
4. Work on a clean workspace. Metal filings and shavings will scratch your
work!


Tools

1. Electric (variable speed) drill
2. Metal cutting drill bits
3. Scroll or Sabre saw with metal cutting blades
4. Safety goggles
5. Center punch (optional spring loaded)
6. Progressive drill bit
7. Nibbler sheet metal cutting tool
8. Hammer
9. Metal Files


Optional Tools

1. Greenlee punches
2. Drill press


Copyright 2008 by Jonathan Yaeger
This article may not be reproduced without the written permission of the
author.

[West]

Does Mr. Rogers accept that type of publication? Just kidding. It is
somewhat sophomoric but well thought out. Two omitted thoughts come to mind
and that is RF susceptibility between the 2 types of metals and next is
ground loop susceptibility between the 2 metals. Using brass or steel screws
to hold a ground turret, for example may present a problem using
disassociate metals which after time may become a small RF transmitter. You
may want to consider the aforementioned considerations for your publication.

west

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...
in article dVTnj.6932$ZO5.1207@trnddc03, West at wrote on
1/30/08 12:27 AM:


"dre7" wrote in message
. ..
I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine,
excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look
that
patinas nicely.

Andrew

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. You're the first one almost on target.
I
just would like to compare and contrast 2 metals.
If you're wondering about my ankle nippers, it's simple.
The children of the light and the children of the dark do not get along,
not
only here, but worldwide.




O.K. douchebag, here's a draft of an article that I was writing for
publication. I am fully aware that no good deed goes unpunished .
Is this necessary Jon? . .

*****

Title: Chassis Layout and Finishing Tips

Tube hobbyists spend many hours and dollars on pet projects, often without
much attention to final appearance.

A tube project need not look like a discarded relic from Frankenstein¹s
laboratory. With a small investment in hand tools, combined with patience,
planning, and care, you can achieve professional and
aesthetically-pleasing
results.

Creating something that looks nice has benefits: 1) your spouse may
actually allow it in the living room; 2) you won¹t need to explain to
friends that it is ³just a prototype,² and 3) it increases the project¹s
value and appeal.


Chassis Considerations

Cost. You can house a project for less than a hundred dollars, or spend
many times that, according to your goals and preferences.

Starting from scratch with raw materials might seem the least expensive,
but
it is rarely so. Raw materials usually are sold in bulk form; machinery
and
tools are needed to bend, cut, form, and fabricate them. Consider also the
value of the time and labor required.

Choosing a chassis based on lowest cost is short-sighted when you consider
the cost of the glass and iron that sits upon it. A wise plan is to pick a
solution that optimizes appearance and ease of use or function.

A ready-made chassis offers both economy and simplicity, with costs
ranging
from about $50 to $250.

If cost is no obstacle, you can hire a professional fabrication or machine
shop to build the chassis of your dreams. Professional results are almost
guaranteed, but at a steep price for single-unit quantities. Fabrication
shops are best when doing production runs, where the set-up and tooling
costs can be spread among several units.


Design vs. Purchase. Making a custom chassis is challenging for many
hobbyists, and it has its own rewards. Those who prefer to "roll their
own"
have a wide variety of materials and options to choose from, such as wood,
aluminum, copper, or or a combination of substances.

The simplest designs consist of a piece of sheet metal mounted on a wooden
frame. Unless you choose a rare or exotic wood, the wooden frame approach
is
inexpensive and a basic frame may be crafted at home with common tools.
However, mounting input and output connectors is a bit more of a
challenge,
due to the wood¹s thickness. Also, wood does not shield against electrical
interference and noise.

Wood is easy to work. Best results are attained with the aid of power
tools
such as table saws, routers, and sanders, which are costly and require
workspace.

Nonetheless, making a professional looking chassis requires a combination
of
skill and craftsmanship and the proper tools, which are not readily
available to everyone. Perhaps the driving consideration is the
availability
of a suitable prefabricated enclosure. If your design employs a lot of
tubes
or unusual iron, you may have little choice than to design your own.

Some vendors sell prepunched chassis; others will machine a custom front
panel for a reasonable price. A prepunched chassis has the benefit of
eliminating most or all of the maching requirements, at the loss of some
design and layout flexibility.

There are just a few major manufacturers of prefabricated chassis; most
are
³boutique² producers. Some advertise in this publication - others may be
found on Internet or in electrical supply catalogs. See the vendor list
that
follows this article.

The focus of this article will be upon working with a prefabricated
chassis.


Prefabricated chassis and enclosures

Prefabricated metal chasses offer structural strength and affordability,
and
don¹t require a professionally-equipped shop to complete. A variety of
features, compositions and finishes are available.

Bare metal products are the cheapest and offer the most options for colors
and finishes; for example, steel can be painted or plated with nickel or
chrome. Unfortunately, bare metal requires extra preparation steps for
painting; aluminum should be etched. Popular ³hardware store² spray paints
seldom adhere well, even to properly prepared surfaces.

If you are tempted to try your hand at painting, do an adhesion test
first.
It can save a lot of time and grief.

Paint a clean sample of the same material. Avoid using soap when cleaning
metal, especially aluminum, because it makes the surface slick and
unfriendy
to paint.
Allow the sample to fully dry and apply cellophane tape (carton sealing
tape
works well) to the surface. Remove the tape. If any paint lifts up, the
finish has failed.

I usually hire a professional paint facility such as an auto repair or
sheet
metal fabrication shop to paint my projects. They have the proper tools,
experience, and environment to do a durable and professional-looking job,
and I don¹t run the risk of overspray in my garage.

Due to the toxicity of the chemical processes involved, nickel or chrome
plating should be left to the pros. If you can¹t find a plating facility
nearby, contact a motorcycle repair shop for a referral. Note that plated
finishes are difficult to label or decorate.


Selecting a Metal Chassis

The first step is to determine the dimensional and structural
requirements.
Lay out all of the ³above deck² components on a flat surface or grid to
determine the length and width. Then determine the height requirement by
considering what will be mounted inside.

I try to use no more height than necessary. A tall chassis has a ³boxy²
look; slim is more elegant, if that word can be used.

Prefabricated chasses come in sizes that the manufacturer hopes to sell.
These may not be optimal for your project, so you may have to adjust your
layout to fit. Some enclosures have optional front panels, rack-mount
hardware or tube cages.

The second step is to determine the type and thickness of the sheet metal
needed. Aluminum is easier to machine compared to steel, but steel is
stronger and better for supporting heavy power and output transformers. If
your project has heavy transformers, it is best to use at least 20 gauge
steel or thick aluminum plate.

If the plate is 1/8² thick or more, you can drill and tap threads for
mounting components directly to the plate, without the need for nuts and
washers.

My preference is to select a prepainted metal chassis. Glossy finishes
look
great when new but reveal the smallest scratches and defects; flat paint
hide best but is dull. A semi-gloss or semi-flat finish is a good choice.


Component Layout

Give careful consideration to component layout. For example, leave ample
space between output tubes; mount transformers so that their windings are
perpendicular to each other to prevent coupling, etc. Mount heavy items
near
the corners for structural strength. Make provisions for parts mounted
underneath, and internal clearances.

Draft and print component layout and drilling template prior to machining
the chassis. Place a thick piece of protective paper on top of the
chassis.
Arrange the major components on top of the paper and note their rough
positions.

Almost any mechanical drawing program will do. I use Canvas® by Deneba®;
it
is available for both Macintosh® and Windows® platforms, and is easy to
use.
Use a grid and draw the components actual size. Most programs have
alignment and spacing options to achieve balanced positioning.

Place a small dot at the center of each tube socket and every round
component. These dots are used to mark initial drill points, so make them
as small as practical. Refer to the template shown by Figure 1,

Square or rectangular shapes are usually cut out with an electric scroll
or
jig saw equipped with a suitable metal-cutting blade. Holes are drilled at
the corners of the quadrilateral large enough to accommodate the blade.
For
these shapes, draw circles the diameter of the final drill bit and place
them within the corners. Then mark pilot holes in the centers of the
drill
circles.

Mark the corners of your drawing to make it easier to align to your work.

Most chassis are larger than a standard sheet of paper. You may have to
print your drawing on multiple pages and join them together. Or have a
print
shop output the drawing on large format paper or film.

You will need to firmly affix the drawing to the chassis so that it
cannot
move. Templates can be printed on sheets of adhesive-backed label stock,
which work well on durable finishes such as powder coated metal, but with
an
important caveat: the adhesive is tough to remove.

After I peel the paper off of the work, I remove remaining residue with
automotive bug remover (petroleum naptha). Solvents will damage or remove
less durable finishes. Test the adhesive paper and solvent beforehand.


Drilling and Machining

Safety guildelines are intended to preserve eyes and fingers. Follow them
even if your disability policy is up to date. Eye protection is
essential *
drill bits often break and metal filings become airborne. I have compiled
a
brief list of basic safety tips for this article.

Protect your work. Metal filings and drill shavings are sharp and can
easily
mar a finish. Place soft material on your work table so the work will not
be scratched as it moves about.

It is wise to cover exposed surfaces with regular or adhesive paper, even
if
you do not use a printed drill template. It is easy for a drill bit to
slip, or for metal shavings to mar the surface. It is a shame to get 90%
complete, only to experience a mishap.



Safety Tips

1. Always wear safety goggles when drilling or machining sheet metal
2. Remove ties and avoid loose fitting clothing
3. Use a slow speed drill when drilling metal
4. Be careful of sharp edges and metal shavings
5. Do not force a drill, or the bit may break
6. Make sure all power tools are properly grounded
7. Wear gloves when handling sheet metal


Construction Tips

1. When possible, choose a prepainted chassis
2. Never clean bare aluminum with soap.
3. Make a drill template before drilling
4. Work on a clean workspace. Metal filings and shavings will scratch
your
work!


Tools

1. Electric (variable speed) drill
2. Metal cutting drill bits
3. Scroll or Sabre saw with metal cutting blades
4. Safety goggles
5. Center punch (optional spring loaded)
6. Progressive drill bit
7. Nibbler sheet metal cutting tool
8. Hammer
9. Metal Files


Optional Tools

1. Greenlee punches
2. Drill press


Copyright 2008 by Jonathan Yaeger
This article may not be reproduced without the written permission of the
author.

[Jon Yaeger]

in article sYUnj.7600$v86.4329@trnddc08, West at wrote on
1/30/08 1:39 AM:

Does Mr. Rogers accept that type of publication? Just kidding. It is
somewhat sophomoric but well thought out.

*** Web definition of sophomoric: "Exhibiting great immaturity and lack of
judgment: sophomoric behavior." My article is basic; YOU are sophomoric.
Contrast my lack of pretentiousness and clarity with your idol Jute. I
guess if I inserted, "back when I was fighting the Mungee tribe in the
Sudan, I realized, after becoming chief, that some people had no use for
tube audio" it would be "sophisticated" enough for you, eh?


Two omitted thoughts come to mind
and that is RF susceptibility between the 2 types of metals and next is
ground loop susceptibility between the 2 metals.

*** What is "RF susceptibility between the 2 types of metals"? How does
it factor into commercial amplifiers that employ steel, aluminum, tin, lead,
gold, and copper in their fabrication? Your concept is much too advanced
for me, pillock. I have no idea what you are talking about and I think you
have even less.

Using brass or steel screws
to hold a ground turret, for example may present a problem using
disassociate metals which after time may become a small RF transmitter. You
may want to consider the aforementioned considerations for your publication.

*** Dissimilar metals are subject to galvanic action and thus poor
connectivity or diode effects. The diode effect sometimes causes the
RECEPTION of A.M. signals. Please explain the physics behind dissimilar
metals and RF TrANSMISSION. Perhaps your buddy Phil can help you out.

*** BTW, I have no intention of covering specific topological debates, e.g.
grounding schemes using the chassis, etc. etc. I'll leave that high
science up to you.

*** I knew it was a mistake to try to be helpful to you. DOUCHEBAG!

west

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...
in article dVTnj.6932$ZO5.1207@trnddc03, West at wrote on
1/30/08 12:27 AM:


"dre7" wrote in message
. ..
I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine,
excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look
that
patinas nicely.

Andrew

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. You're the first one almost on target.
I
just would like to compare and contrast 2 metals.
If you're wondering about my ankle nippers, it's simple.
The children of the light and the children of the dark do not get along,
not
only here, but worldwide.




O.K. douchebag, here's a draft of an article that I was writing for
publication. I am fully aware that no good deed goes unpunished .
Is this necessary Jon? . .

*** Yes, it is completely apropos and TRUE!

*****

Title: Chassis Layout and Finishing Tips

Tube hobbyists spend many hours and dollars on pet projects, often without
much attention to final appearance.

A tube project need not look like a discarded relic from Frankenstein¹s
laboratory. With a small investment in hand tools, combined with patience,
planning, and care, you can achieve professional and
aesthetically-pleasing
results.

Creating something that looks nice has benefits: 1) your spouse may
actually allow it in the living room; 2) you won¹t need to explain to
friends that it is ³just a prototype,² and 3) it increases the project¹s
value and appeal.


Chassis Considerations

Cost. You can house a project for less than a hundred dollars, or spend
many times that, according to your goals and preferences.

Starting from scratch with raw materials might seem the least expensive,
but
it is rarely so. Raw materials usually are sold in bulk form; machinery
and
tools are needed to bend, cut, form, and fabricate them. Consider also the
value of the time and labor required.

Choosing a chassis based on lowest cost is short-sighted when you consider
the cost of the glass and iron that sits upon it. A wise plan is to pick a
solution that optimizes appearance and ease of use or function.

A ready-made chassis offers both economy and simplicity, with costs
ranging
from about $50 to $250.

If cost is no obstacle, you can hire a professional fabrication or machine
shop to build the chassis of your dreams. Professional results are almost
guaranteed, but at a steep price for single-unit quantities. Fabrication
shops are best when doing production runs, where the set-up and tooling
costs can be spread among several units.


Design vs. Purchase. Making a custom chassis is challenging for many
hobbyists, and it has its own rewards. Those who prefer to "roll their
own"
have a wide variety of materials and options to choose from, such as wood,
aluminum, copper, or or a combination of substances.

The simplest designs consist of a piece of sheet metal mounted on a wooden
frame. Unless you choose a rare or exotic wood, the wooden frame approach
is
inexpensive and a basic frame may be crafted at home with common tools.
However, mounting input and output connectors is a bit more of a
challenge,
due to the wood¹s thickness. Also, wood does not shield against electrical
interference and noise.

Wood is easy to work. Best results are attained with the aid of power
tools
such as table saws, routers, and sanders, which are costly and require
workspace.

Nonetheless, making a professional looking chassis requires a combination
of
skill and craftsmanship and the proper tools, which are not readily
available to everyone. Perhaps the driving consideration is the
availability
of a suitable prefabricated enclosure. If your design employs a lot of
tubes
or unusual iron, you may have little choice than to design your own.

Some vendors sell prepunched chassis; others will machine a custom front
panel for a reasonable price. A prepunched chassis has the benefit of
eliminating most or all of the maching requirements, at the loss of some
design and layout flexibility.

There are just a few major manufacturers of prefabricated chassis; most
are
³boutique² producers. Some advertise in this publication - others may be
found on Internet or in electrical supply catalogs. See the vendor list
that
follows this article.

The focus of this article will be upon working with a prefabricated
chassis.


Prefabricated chassis and enclosures

Prefabricated metal chasses offer structural strength and affordability,
and
don¹t require a professionally-equipped shop to complete. A variety of
features, compositions and finishes are available.

Bare metal products are the cheapest and offer the most options for colors
and finishes; for example, steel can be painted or plated with nickel or
chrome. Unfortunately, bare metal requires extra preparation steps for
painting; aluminum should be etched. Popular ³hardware store² spray paints
seldom adhere well, even to properly prepared surfaces.

If you are tempted to try your hand at painting, do an adhesion test
first.
It can save a lot of time and grief.

Paint a clean sample of the same material. Avoid using soap when cleaning
metal, especially aluminum, because it makes the surface slick and
unfriendy
to paint.
Allow the sample to fully dry and apply cellophane tape (carton sealing
tape
works well) to the surface. Remove the tape. If any paint lifts up, the
finish has failed.

I usually hire a professional paint facility such as an auto repair or
sheet
metal fabrication shop to paint my projects. They have the proper tools,
experience, and environment to do a durable and professional-looking job,
and I don¹t run the risk of overspray in my garage.

Due to the toxicity of the chemical processes involved, nickel or chrome
plating should be left to the pros. If you can¹t find a plating facility
nearby, contact a motorcycle repair shop for a referral. Note that plated
finishes are difficult to label or decorate.


Selecting a Metal Chassis

The first step is to determine the dimensional and structural
requirements.
Lay out all of the ³above deck² components on a flat surface or grid to
determine the length and width. Then determine the height requirement by
considering what will be mounted inside.

I try to use no more height than necessary. A tall chassis has a ³boxy²
look; slim is more elegant, if that word can be used.

Prefabricated chasses come in sizes that the manufacturer hopes to sell.
These may not be optimal for your project, so you may have to adjust your
layout to fit. Some enclosures have optional front panels, rack-mount
hardware or tube cages.

The second step is to determine the type and thickness of the sheet metal
needed. Aluminum is easier to machine compared to steel, but steel is
stronger and better for supporting heavy power and output transformers. If
your project has heavy transformers, it is best to use at least 20 gauge
steel or thick aluminum plate.

If the plate is 1/8² thick or more, you can drill and tap threads for
mounting components directly to the plate, without the need for nuts and
washers.

My preference is to select a prepainted metal chassis. Glossy finishes
look
great when new but reveal the smallest scratches and defects; flat paint
hide best but is dull. A semi-gloss or semi-flat finish is a good choice.


Component Layout

Give careful consideration to component layout. For example, leave ample
space between output tubes; mount transformers so that their windings are
perpendicular to each other to prevent coupling, etc. Mount heavy items
near
the corners for structural strength. Make provisions for parts mounted
underneath, and internal clearances.

Draft and print component layout and drilling template prior to machining
the chassis. Place a thick piece of protective paper on top of the
chassis.
Arrange the major components on top of the paper and note their rough
positions.

Almost any mechanical drawing program will do. I use Canvas® by Deneba®;
it
is available for both Macintosh® and Windows® platforms, and is easy to
use.
Use a grid and draw the components actual size. Most programs have
alignment and spacing options to achieve balanced positioning.

Place a small dot at the center of each tube socket and every round
component. These dots are used to mark initial drill points, so make them
as small as practical. Refer to the template shown by Figure 1,

Square or rectangular shapes are usually cut out with an electric scroll
or
jig saw equipped with a suitable metal-cutting blade. Holes are drilled at
the corners of the quadrilateral large enough to accommodate the blade.
For
these shapes, draw circles the diameter of the final drill bit and place
them within the corners. Then mark pilot holes in the centers of the
drill
circles.

Mark the corners of your drawing to make it easier to align to your work.

Most chassis are larger than a standard sheet of paper. You may have to
print your drawing on multiple pages and join them together. Or have a
print
shop output the drawing on large format paper or film.

You will need to firmly affix the drawing to the chassis so that it
cannot
move. Templates can be printed on sheets of adhesive-backed label stock,
which work well on durable finishes such as powder coated metal, but with
an
important caveat: the adhesive is tough to remove.

After I peel the paper off of the work, I remove remaining residue with
automotive bug remover (petroleum naptha). Solvents will damage or remove
less durable finishes. Test the adhesive paper and solvent beforehand.


Drilling and Machining

Safety guildelines are intended to preserve eyes and fingers. Follow them
even if your disability policy is up to date. Eye protection is
essential *
drill bits often break and metal filings become airborne. I have compiled
a
brief list of basic safety tips for this article.

Protect your work. Metal filings and drill shavings are sharp and can
easily
mar a finish. Place soft material on your work table so the work will not
be scratched as it moves about.

It is wise to cover exposed surfaces with regular or adhesive paper, even
if
you do not use a printed drill template. It is easy for a drill bit to
slip, or for metal shavings to mar the surface. It is a shame to get 90%
complete, only to experience a mishap.



Safety Tips

1. Always wear safety goggles when drilling or machining sheet metal
2. Remove ties and avoid loose fitting clothing
3. Use a slow speed drill when drilling metal
4. Be careful of sharp edges and metal shavings
5. Do not force a drill, or the bit may break
6. Make sure all power tools are properly grounded
7. Wear gloves when handling sheet metal


Construction Tips

1. When possible, choose a prepainted chassis
2. Never clean bare aluminum with soap.
3. Make a drill template before drilling
4. Work on a clean workspace. Metal filings and shavings will scratch
your
work!


Tools

1. Electric (variable speed) drill
2. Metal cutting drill bits
3. Scroll or Sabre saw with metal cutting blades
4. Safety goggles
5. Center punch (optional spring loaded)
6. Progressive drill bit
7. Nibbler sheet metal cutting tool
8. Hammer
9. Metal Files


Optional Tools

1. Greenlee punches
2. Drill press


Copyright 2008 by Jonathan Yaeger
This article may not be reproduced without the written permission of the
author.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Stephen" wrote in message
news:guAnj.39388$75.10603@trnddc05...
Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it
would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.


Hi West. A very old friend of mine, the chap who started me off
in tube audio when I was very young, used to work in a smallish
audio prototype shop in the UK. He advised me "Always keep
the prototype.It is usually built in an aluminium chassis and may
perform marginally better than the steel production units"

Of late, I have given up using Hammond-type box chassis,
even though I have access to a metal bender. I prefer the
"slab design" with separate plates top and bottom, sides,
bck and front. I use 10mm anodised alum for the front plate,
6mm for the rear panel, 8mm for the sided, and 3mm for
top and bottom plates, and 3mm stainless steel for the
grilles.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...03Pics/04A.jpg

You have to remember that anodising insulates one plate
from the other, so screw holes and threads should have
plastric machine screws fitted before the plates go to
be anodised. For practical reasons, I use a copper
U-shaped inner chassis to which the outer panels are
subsequently fixed. You can see the copper in this pic.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...03Pics/05A.jpg


Cordially,

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"dre7" wrote in message
. ..
I'm rather partial to 464 Brass on a wood box. Easy to machine, excellent
conductivity and shielding properties and has a nice, old school look that
patinas nicely.


Yes. Very nice, except that it does not fulfill the
requirements for tube amps usually made by
insurance companies (at least here in the EU)
for a totally enclosed metal chassis bonded to
the mains supply earth (ground)

Iain

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 2:07*am, Jon Yaeger wrote:

to hold a ground turret, for example may present a problem using
disassociate metals which after time may become a small RF transmitter. You
may want to consider the aforementioned considerations for your publication.

*** *Dissimilar metals are subject to galvanic action and thus poor
connectivity or diode effects. *The diode effect sometimes causes the
RECEPTION of A.M. signals. *Please explain the physics behind dissimilar
metals and RF TrANSMISSION. *Perhaps your buddy Phil can help you out.

Jon:

Pillock's keeper and trainer, Andre, once made a similar statement
with reference to wire-management and diode effects - only he stated
that it was due to interference from "nearby FM
transmitters" (YIKES!). Pillock just picked up on it...

Neither of them has enough practical experience - much less
understanding of the science (and chemistry) involved to be anything
other than dangerous. Happily and thankfully, their project activities
are largely confined to their own and are not foisted on others.

But it is just possible that a sufficiently large AM signal rectified
by products-of-corrosion could induce a signal outside the direct
path. By the most remote stretch, this could be defined as a "small RF
transmitter"... not that Pillock thought that far ahead. Further, a
signal that strong would have saturated the entire system anyway such
that minuscule effects of "a small RF transmitter" would be swamped
anyway.

But, give the creature its due... I am sure he will come right back
and state that is _exactly_ what he meant...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Jon Yaeger]

in article
, Peter
Wieck at wrote on 1/30/08 9:31 AM:

On Jan 30, 2:07*am, Jon Yaeger wrote:

to hold a ground turret, for example may present a problem using
disassociate metals which after time may become a small RF transmitter. You
may want to consider the aforementioned considerations for your publication.

*** *Dissimilar metals are subject to galvanic action and thus poor
connectivity or diode effects. *The diode effect sometimes causes the
RECEPTION of A.M. signals. *Please explain the physics behind dissimilar
metals and RF TrANSMISSION. *Perhaps your buddy Phil can help you out.

Jon:

Pillock's keeper and trainer, Andre, once made a similar statement
with reference to wire-management and diode effects - only he stated
that it was due to interference from "nearby FM
transmitters" (YIKES!). Pillock just picked up on it...

Neither of them has enough practical experience - much less
understanding of the science (and chemistry) involved to be anything
other than dangerous. Happily and thankfully, their project activities
are largely confined to their own and are not foisted on others.

But it is just possible that a sufficiently large AM signal rectified
by products-of-corrosion could induce a signal outside the direct
path. By the most remote stretch, this could be defined as a "small RF
transmitter"... not that Pillock thought that far ahead. Further, a
signal that strong would have saturated the entire system anyway such
that minuscule effects of "a small RF transmitter" would be swamped
anyway.

But, give the creature its due... I am sure he will come right back
and state that is _exactly_ what he meant...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



I have been told that in Mexico some pobres located near powerful A.M.
transmitters hooked up a coil to a fluorescent light bulb and thus were able
to receive free illumination. In this case the RF energy caused subsequent
photon emission.

With my admittedly limited grasp of physics, you'll have to explain your
theory of retransmission. It's conceivable that a structure could act like
a tuning fork and "retransmit" by resonance. The output power would have to
be less . . .

But my understanding of detection (with a bit of capacitance) is that the RF
component is largely removed, leaving the audio. So how then is RF
retransmitted?

Please clarify.

Jon

[Jon Yaeger]

in article
, Peter
Wieck at wrote on 1/30/08 9:31 AM:

On Jan 30, 2:07*am, Jon Yaeger wrote:

to hold a ground turret, for example may present a problem using
disassociate metals which after time may become a small RF transmitter. You
may want to consider the aforementioned considerations for your publication.

*** *Dissimilar metals are subject to galvanic action and thus poor
connectivity or diode effects. *The diode effect sometimes causes the
RECEPTION of A.M. signals. *Please explain the physics behind dissimilar
metals and RF TrANSMISSION. *Perhaps your buddy Phil can help you out.

Jon:

Pillock's keeper and trainer, Andre, once made a similar statement
with reference to wire-management and diode effects - only he stated
that it was due to interference from "nearby FM
transmitters" (YIKES!). Pillock just picked up on it...

Neither of them has enough practical experience - much less
understanding of the science (and chemistry) involved to be anything
other than dangerous. Happily and thankfully, their project activities
are largely confined to their own and are not foisted on others.

But it is just possible that a sufficiently large AM signal rectified
by products-of-corrosion could induce a signal outside the direct
path. By the most remote stretch, this could be defined as a "small RF
transmitter"... not that Pillock thought that far ahead. Further, a
signal that strong would have saturated the entire system anyway such
that minuscule effects of "a small RF transmitter" would be swamped
anyway.

But, give the creature its due... I am sure he will come right back
and state that is _exactly_ what he meant...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



Perhaps West typifies a new species of homo sapiens: Pillock Man . . .

I think it is curious and rather typical that West asks for basic
information about chassis materials. However, from his reply it is evident
that he already knows everything about them, and hence his posting is simply
rhetorical, i.e. just for attention.

OK. I've said that I'm done with West in the past. Now I'm REALLY done.
Please slap me if I am tempted to reply to him . . . If I want to play with
a child, I have two at home to entertain.

Jon

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 9:58*am, Jon Yaeger wrote:
in article

But my understanding of detection (with a bit of capacitance) is that the RF
component is largely removed, leaving the audio. *So how then is RF
retransmitted?

Please clarify.

Well... we are speaking of a signal that is sufficient to cause
induction at audio (but still AC) frequencies. Since this not via an
conductor or transformer - it is "over the air"... radio... Imagine
the strength of that signal anyway!

Yes, it is a severe stretch - but "small RF transmitter" does cover it
if one is not too careful of correct terms or accurate descriptions.
Which does fit the pillock to the proverbial T.

Remember, it is what he MEANT to write vs. what he actually wrote.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[John Byrns]

In article ,
Jon Yaeger wrote:


I have been told that in Mexico some pobres located near powerful A.M.
transmitters hooked up a coil to a fluorescent light bulb and thus were able
to receive free illumination. In this case the RF energy caused subsequent
photon emission.

With my admittedly limited grasp of physics, you'll have to explain your
theory of retransmission. It's conceivable that a structure could act like
a tuning fork and "retransmit" by resonance. The output power would have to
be less . . .

But my understanding of detection (with a bit of capacitance) is that the RF
component is largely removed, leaving the audio. So how then is RF
retransmitted?

Please clarify.

When an RF signal is detected by rectification the RF component is not
largely removed, a low pass filter is required for that. In addition to
the second order IM products that produce the detected audio, the
rectification also produces harmonics of the original RF, these can be
retransmitted, especially if the dimensions of the metalwork are
resonant at one of the harmonics. Think of the antitheft patches stores
used to use that were nothing more than a diode and a foil antenna.
When you left the store with an item that hadn't been deactivated, you
had to pass near a transmitter which caused the tag to transmit on a
harmonic frequency which could then be detected by a receiver tuned to
that frequency which would then set off an alarm and flashing lights.


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[West]

"John Byrns" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jon Yaeger wrote:


I have been told that in Mexico some pobres located near powerful A.M.
transmitters hooked up a coil to a fluorescent light bulb and thus were
able
to receive free illumination. In this case the RF energy caused
subsequent
photon emission.

With my admittedly limited grasp of physics, you'll have to explain your
theory of retransmission. It's conceivable that a structure could act
like
a tuning fork and "retransmit" by resonance. The output power would
have to
be less . . .

But my understanding of detection (with a bit of capacitance) is that
the RF
component is largely removed, leaving the audio. So how then is RF
retransmitted?

Please clarify.

When an RF signal is detected by rectification the RF component is not
largely removed, a low pass filter is required for that. In addition to
the second order IM products that produce the detected audio, the
rectification also produces harmonics of the original RF, these can be
retransmitted, especially if the dimensions of the metalwork are
resonant at one of the harmonics. Think of the antitheft patches stores
used to use that were nothing more than a diode and a foil antenna.
When you left the store with an item that hadn't been deactivated, you
had to pass near a transmitter which caused the tag to transmit on a
harmonic frequency which could then be detected by a receiver tuned to
that frequency which would then set off an alarm and flashing lights.

Thanks John for an excellent analogy. There's nothing like knowledge to
quite the noise. Working in biomed electronics doesn't provide much
experience in RF except for a short stint in MRI and to develop a few RF
innovations. I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days. I never used my commercial ticket
except to teach part time at the local community college.

west

Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[robert casey]

Stephen wrote:
Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both large
and small.

Production, or one-off quantities? If one-off:

Aluminum is easier to cut holes in, and is a better conductor than
steel. However, you can't solder to aluminum (it can be done, but it's
a real PITA). And aluminum isn't as strong as steel (for the same
thickness). Steel may vibrate from stray 60Hz power transformer
magnetic leakage. But if that happens, you got bigger problems with hum
being induced in the audio circuits...

In any event, I'd use a star grounding system to manage return currents
from the power supply. To avoid ground loops. The chassis would be
tied to this star, and not pass any current. The chassis would act as a
shield only. Once the circuits are behaving well, and you are looking
at production runs, you can try passing current thru the chassis and see
if any ground loops happen. And correct accordingly.

[West]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


"Stephen" wrote in message
news:guAnj.39388$75.10603@trnddc05...
Hi Gents, Getting ready for another project and I wanted to solicit
opinions on the pros and cons of an aluminum vs. steel chassis, both
large
and small. I think we discuss this a few years ago but I also think it
would
be nice to do it again. Thanks.


Hi West. A very old friend of mine, the chap who started me off
in tube audio when I was very young, used to work in a smallish
audio prototype shop in the UK. He advised me "Always keep
the prototype.It is usually built in an aluminium chassis and may
perform marginally better than the steel production units"

Of late, I have given up using Hammond-type box chassis,
even though I have access to a metal bender. I prefer the
"slab design" with separate plates top and bottom, sides,
bck and front. I use 10mm anodised alum for the front plate,
6mm for the rear panel, 8mm for the sided, and 3mm for
top and bottom plates, and 3mm stainless steel for the
grilles.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...03Pics/04A.jpg

You have to remember that anodising insulates one plate
from the other, so screw holes and threads should have
plastric machine screws fitted before the plates go to
be anodised. For practical reasons, I use a copper
U-shaped inner chassis to which the outer panels are
subsequently fixed. You can see the copper in this pic.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...03Pics/05A.jpg

It's impressive that you are aware of those government rules. I believe that
the Swedes are the best in that area. Long ago, before the advent of APC,
Tripplite, etc. UPS products, I designed a similar product for medical
equipment. In Florida, the lightning capital of the world, the frequent
storms created havoc with all the sensitive medical systems. The design was
initially out of necessity because of all the revenue lost to warranty and
contracted systems. That business flourished and I subsequently sold it for
a tidy sum. My point is that I had to adhere to all those stringent rules in
my products. There was the UL, CSA (for Canada), National Electric Code,
which was especially tough for anything that may come into contact with a
patient or even be in a hospital. Then there was RF generated noise that may
interfere with monitoring systems and heart pacers. So many rules and
testing. Fortunately for hobbyists, we don't need to incorporate those
rules, but I still believe that it's beneficial to at least be aware of
them.

Kindest regards,
west

BTW: I didn't answer you right away because I couldn't remember the
conductor and couldn't find the old program. It was perform at Ruth Eckerd
Hall, Clearwater, Florida - 1983. Perhaps you can help?

Cordially,

Iain

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 2:27*pm, "West" wrote:
I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days.

Pillock:

Funny -

Your ham license is AF4GC, correct?

Which leads to an interesting link:

http://chat.qth.com/profile.php?mode...affe6e46324de2

You and Al Bundy...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[West]

Oh Wiecked One...How hard you try to dig up poison. If you can't contribute
to a thread, stay off. No matter how hard you try, no one is going to smell
as bad as you do. We all know that you suffer from a low self esteem, but
try not to pull others down with you. BTW my call was KC4JL. not that other
one.. Hope you find religion or something.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 2:27 pm, "West" wrote:
I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days.

Pillock:

Funny -

Your ham license is AF4GC, correct?

Which leads to an interesting link:

http://chat.qth.com/profile.php?mode...affe6e46324de2

You and Al Bundy...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Doug Bannard]

"West" wrote in message
news:lD8oj.68153$75.62272@trnddc05...
Oh Wiecked One...How hard you try to dig up poison. If you can't
contribute
to a thread, stay off. No matter how hard you try, no one is going to
smell
as bad as you do. We all know that you suffer from a low self esteem, but
try not to pull others down with you. BTW my call was KC4JL. not that
other
one.. Hope you find religion or something.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 2:27 pm, "West" wrote:
I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days.

Pillock:

Funny -

Your ham license is AF4GC, correct?

Which leads to an interesting link:

http://chat.qth.com/profile.php?mode...affe6e46324de2

You and Al Bundy...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



Peter:

His present call is indeed AF4GC and expired on 21 Oct 2007. Not yet
renewed in the FCC database. His previous call was KC4JL. Look him up at

http://www.qrz.com

and type either AF4GC or KC4JL into the callsign window. Same result in
either case.

Best Regards : Doug Bannard

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 7:29*pm, "West" wrote:

BTW my call was KC4JL. not that other
one.. Hope you find religion or something.

Pillock:

Problem is that when you lie about the small stuff, the entirety of
the rest of it is called into question. As Mr. Bannard so clearly
noted. Further, you did sign your post to sell some sort of Kenwood or
other with AF4GC - which leads to the same *exact* address as the
KC4JL.

Of course, you also acknowledged your connection with the AF4GC call-
sign when you protested your righteousness over your abuse of the
repeater... for which the FCC cited you.

You are a liar. Pretty much as simple as that. Unlike your "boss", you
are not an accomplished liar, but a rank, stupid amateur without even
the ability to come up with an attractive or interesting lie.

So much for your professional career - ladies' or men's? Oh right!
Children's... .

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 8:25*pm, "Doug Bannard" wrote:
"West" wrote in message

news:lD8oj.68153$75.62272@trnddc05...





Oh Wiecked One...How hard you try to dig up poison. If you can't
contribute
to a thread, stay off. No matter how hard you try, no one is going to
smell
as bad as you do. We all know that you suffer from a low self esteem, but
try not to pull others down with you. BTW my call was KC4JL. not that
other
one.. Hope you find religion or something.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 2:27 pm, "West" wrote:
I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days.

Pillock:

Funny -

Your ham license is AF4GC, correct?

Which leads to an interesting link:

http://chat.qth.com/profile.php?mode...&sid=fb7803390...

You and Al Bundy...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Peter:

His present call is indeed AF4GC and expired on 21 Oct 2007. *Not yet
renewed in the FCC database. His previous call was KC4JL. *Look him up at

http://www.qrz.com

and type either AF4GC or KC4JL into the callsign window. *Same result in
either case.

Best Regards : Doug Bannard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you!

Never doubted it. Pillock is a rather poor liar, but he is certainly
practicing hard at it.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[West]

"Doug Bannard" wrote in message
...

"West" wrote in message
news:lD8oj.68153$75.62272@trnddc05...
Oh Wiecked One...How hard you try to dig up poison. If you can't
contribute
to a thread, stay off. No matter how hard you try, no one is going to
smell
as bad as you do. We all know that you suffer from a low self esteem,
but
try not to pull others down with you. BTW my call was KC4JL. not that
other
one.. Hope you find religion or something.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 2:27 pm, "West" wrote:
I do, however, have a commercial 1st class FCC license and an
Extra class Ham ticket from the old days.

Pillock:

Funny -

Your ham license is AF4GC, correct?

Which leads to an interesting link:


http://chat.qth.com/profile.php?mode...affe6e46324de2

You and Al Bundy...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



Peter:

His present call is indeed AF4GC and expired on 21 Oct 2007. Not yet
renewed in the FCC database. His previous call was KC4JL. Look him up at

http://www.qrz.com

and type either AF4GC or KC4JL into the callsign window. Same result in
either case.

Best Regards : Doug Bannard

Oh Mr. Bannard we thank you for the wonderful public service regarding my
call sign .This is very useful info for a tube related NG. What is your
point, except of course, if you are a new sockpuppet of the Wiecked one? The
only reason that The Wiecked one wants my call sign is to publish my rather
private address everywhere he can is so my family and I might possibly get
harassed at our home. Nice guy Mr. Wiecked and nice of you to help him.

west

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 30, 10:46*pm, "West" wrote:

Oh Mr. Bannard we thank you for the wonderful public service regarding my call sign .

Pillock:

Proving you for the liar you are is a service, certainly. Do you have
a problem with that?

And call-signs are a matter of public record.

As to harassment, that is your style and under several aliases as it
happens. Another "talent" you have learned (badly) from your "boss".

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[West]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 10:46 pm, "West" wrote:

Oh Mr. Bannard we thank you for the wonderful public service regarding
my call sign .

Pillock:

Proving you for the liar you are is a service, certainly. Do you have
a problem with that?

And call-signs are a matter of public record.

As to harassment, that is your style and under several aliases as it
happens. Another "talent" you have learned (badly) from your "boss".

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Why don't you take a poll in this NG and find out if anyone believes your
crap, or even wants to hear it, save the Peddler? Go ahead...ask. Your
constantly displaying the disease of a malevolent aggrandizer. You send so
much time trying to bring me and others down to your level. IT WILL NOT
WORK! You have been exposed for who and what you are. Don't take it out on
me. You did it to yourself, mostly by having several of your contradictions
exposed. Do you think the participants of this NG are idiots? They know you
started this crap. You know, usually intrinsic cowards are bullies behind
the safety of a microphone (CB) or keyboard. I bet you would never pull this
crap in person. Perhaps there lays the rub. Are you on (or off) medication
that compels you to act this way? Please, get help. This is a technical
thread, not the Wieck & Yaeger show.
Come on Pete, dig yourself, man. Give it a break and quit this BS, if not
for my sake, for the sake of the entire NG, who are becoming weary of you.
Do you think Rodents enjoy this? Have you no care, no respect? Maybe you
have too much time on your hands. Giving out my address, indeed. For what
purpose? Can you explain it to the readership? Pure Evil!

west

[Peter Wieck]

On Jan 31, 4:35*pm, "West" wrote:

I bet you would never pull this crap in person.

You would lose. I have just as little time for pretentious liars and
cowardly idiots in person as in usenet. And I am just as direct when
faced with their behavior in person as in usenet.

Of course, I would not be making up fairy tales of others being lost
in the forest, either. But, for the record, is that your fantasy? You
are so detailed with it. I "bet" it bespeaks direct experience.

Funny thing how pillocks such as yourself get so upset when caught out
in the light of full daylight with nowhere to hide. You really ought
to read your Kipling as you suit the muskrat character quite aptly -
also a Florida native.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA