Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and $250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.



My tunes at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.



My tunes at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm

In article 20030926110558.14483.00000285@mb-
m28.aol.com, says...

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

In article 20030926110558.14483.00000285@mb-
m28.aol.com, says...

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

For electric guitar, you'll never do any better than a standard EL84 (6BQ5),
for any price. Try the Electro Harmonix EL84 EH. While you're at it, dump
the Peavey and install them in a Vox AC30.

Jack

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

For electric guitar, you'll never do any better than a standard EL84 (6BQ5),
for any price. Try the Electro Harmonix EL84 EH. While you're at it, dump
the Peavey and install them in a Vox AC30.

Jack

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

Considering that there are 400 V tubes and 300 V tubes of the same pin
configuration there has to be some circumstances that mean one is better
than the other. I have been fooling with a Powersoak and it's been nice to
play with the amp at different power outputs and still being able to play
without killing my ears, so it seems to me that I could come up with some
differences by using different tubes, were I to have the knowledge of why I
would do so.

I already have the circumstance in hand where I can yank a pair of the tubes
and simply try it for myself, and I've done just that on my Traynor Mark III
bringing it down to 50 watts and finding that I like it with my Ampeg V22
cabinet all the more for it, but hey, sometimes it's as much getting what
you want in the planning and not in the guessing. Dollar wise, $250 for a
pair of Telefunkens is probably overkill unless it gives me something that I
can't achieve any other way. And of course I could use my number of 12AX7s
and 6BQ5s for substitutions until I find something that I like, but then I
already like the Classic 50 as it stands, particularly with my 1963 Jaguar,
however, I'm always searching.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"NJD" wrote in message
...
In article 20030926110558.14483.00000285@mb-
m28.aol.com, says...

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of
course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular
model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

Considering that there are 400 V tubes and 300 V tubes of the same pin
configuration there has to be some circumstances that mean one is better
than the other. I have been fooling with a Powersoak and it's been nice to
play with the amp at different power outputs and still being able to play
without killing my ears, so it seems to me that I could come up with some
differences by using different tubes, were I to have the knowledge of why I
would do so.

I already have the circumstance in hand where I can yank a pair of the tubes
and simply try it for myself, and I've done just that on my Traynor Mark III
bringing it down to 50 watts and finding that I like it with my Ampeg V22
cabinet all the more for it, but hey, sometimes it's as much getting what
you want in the planning and not in the guessing. Dollar wise, $250 for a
pair of Telefunkens is probably overkill unless it gives me something that I
can't achieve any other way. And of course I could use my number of 12AX7s
and 6BQ5s for substitutions until I find something that I like, but then I
already like the Classic 50 as it stands, particularly with my 1963 Jaguar,
however, I'm always searching.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"NJD" wrote in message
...
In article 20030926110558.14483.00000285@mb-
m28.aol.com, says...

Roger wrote:
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s

Those are good sounding amps....especially for what they are. IMNSHO of
course.
I personally never got very deluxe with the tubes on that particular
model
although I guess it couldn't hurt.

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

Well, this is what I get for bringing up hear say. Let
me try to be more exacting with what one particular tech
told me. Basically, I wanted to buy some expensive
tubes and he said I was wasting my money for no reason.

He said that in his experience, brand didn't make much
difference. Whether expensive or cheap, he still had to
test each tube individually and the high priced ones
didn't fare much better.

He said he always had to pull out some tubes from a set
no matter the brand, because there were always a few bad
ones that caused noise or some other problems. The ones
that didn't have any such problems all worked about the
same, regardless of brand.

Anyway, I think that was the gist of it. I'll go put my
dunce cap on now.

In article ,
says...
Considering that there are 400 V tubes and 300 V tubes of the same pin
configuration there has to be some circumstances that mean one is better
than the other. I have been fooling with a Powersoak and it's been nice to
play with the amp at different power outputs and still being able to play
without killing my ears, so it seems to me that I could come up with some
differences by using different tubes, were I to have the knowledge of why I
would do so.

I already have the circumstance in hand where I can yank a pair of the tubes
and simply try it for myself, and I've done just that on my Traynor Mark III
bringing it down to 50 watts and finding that I like it with my Ampeg V22
cabinet all the more for it, but hey, sometimes it's as much getting what
you want in the planning and not in the guessing. Dollar wise, $250 for a
pair of Telefunkens is probably overkill unless it gives me something that I
can't achieve any other way. And of course I could use my number of 12AX7s
and 6BQ5s for substitutions until I find something that I like, but then I
already like the Classic 50 as it stands, particularly with my 1963 Jaguar,
however, I'm always searching.



--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

Well, this is what I get for bringing up hear say. Let
me try to be more exacting with what one particular tech
told me. Basically, I wanted to buy some expensive
tubes and he said I was wasting my money for no reason.

He said that in his experience, brand didn't make much
difference. Whether expensive or cheap, he still had to
test each tube individually and the high priced ones
didn't fare much better.

He said he always had to pull out some tubes from a set
no matter the brand, because there were always a few bad
ones that caused noise or some other problems. The ones
that didn't have any such problems all worked about the
same, regardless of brand.

Anyway, I think that was the gist of it. I'll go put my
dunce cap on now.

In article ,
says...
Considering that there are 400 V tubes and 300 V tubes of the same pin
configuration there has to be some circumstances that mean one is better
than the other. I have been fooling with a Powersoak and it's been nice to
play with the amp at different power outputs and still being able to play
without killing my ears, so it seems to me that I could come up with some
differences by using different tubes, were I to have the knowledge of why I
would do so.

I already have the circumstance in hand where I can yank a pair of the tubes
and simply try it for myself, and I've done just that on my Traynor Mark III
bringing it down to 50 watts and finding that I like it with my Ampeg V22
cabinet all the more for it, but hey, sometimes it's as much getting what
you want in the planning and not in the guessing. Dollar wise, $250 for a
pair of Telefunkens is probably overkill unless it gives me something that I
can't achieve any other way. And of course I could use my number of 12AX7s
and 6BQ5s for substitutions until I find something that I like, but then I
already like the Classic 50 as it stands, particularly with my 1963 Jaguar,
however, I'm always searching.



--
Nick
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the
combinations of these five give rise to more melodies
than can ever be heard." -- Sun Tzu
http://www.ironia.net My last band

NJD wrote:

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

My experience with Toobs is it sort of doesn't much
matter. This is especially true if you aren't
pushing them hard. But the difference between
cheapo and high dollar tubes tends to occur
in first the reliablity factor. High dollar
tubes tend to last much longer and more important
retain their new characteristics longer as they age.
The second thing is most of the tube differences
tend to occur as the tube is overdriven. High
dollar tubes tend to have much better overdrive
characteristics and power handling than cheapos.

Of course now you've discovered the rub. The thing
that MOST interests many guitar players IS the
overdrive characteristics! So now you discover
that there is both no difference and a great
difference between tubes at the same time!

Benj

--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

NJD wrote:

Tubes are a controversial subject. There are some techs
who will tell you that it doesn't matter at all. Either
the tube is working or it isn't. If it's working, then
it works as well as any other that's working.

Obviously, others disagree completely.

I have no idea myself.

My experience with Toobs is it sort of doesn't much
matter. This is especially true if you aren't
pushing them hard. But the difference between
cheapo and high dollar tubes tends to occur
in first the reliablity factor. High dollar
tubes tend to last much longer and more important
retain their new characteristics longer as they age.
The second thing is most of the tube differences
tend to occur as the tube is overdriven. High
dollar tubes tend to have much better overdrive
characteristics and power handling than cheapos.

Of course now you've discovered the rub. The thing
that MOST interests many guitar players IS the
overdrive characteristics! So now you discover
that there is both no difference and a great
difference between tubes at the same time!

Benj

--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

Hey Roger,

Ask your question on alt.guitar.amps... You'll find plenty of opinions there.
My gut feeling is that the difference between the big buck NOS tubes and
cheap new ones in your amp would be subtle. I go for the expensive EL84s
in my amp, but I'm one of those weird tube geeks who think they hear a
difference. I also have an expensive tube geek amp to put 'em in. Go figure.

By the way: I have a small collection of both cheap and expensive EL84s
in my used tube box. If you want to drag your amp over here one day when
there's nothing going on you can sample a couple of flavors.

Gantt

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and $250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

--

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

Hey Roger,

Ask your question on alt.guitar.amps... You'll find plenty of opinions there.
My gut feeling is that the difference between the big buck NOS tubes and
cheap new ones in your amp would be subtle. I go for the expensive EL84s
in my amp, but I'm one of those weird tube geeks who think they hear a
difference. I also have an expensive tube geek amp to put 'em in. Go figure.

By the way: I have a small collection of both cheap and expensive EL84s
in my used tube box. If you want to drag your amp over here one day when
there's nothing going on you can sample a couple of flavors.

Gantt

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and $250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

--

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.

Gareth.

I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.

Gareth.

If I recall, the difference between 300V and 400V tubes is the *rating*, or
maximum voltage to which they can safely be subjected. Putting a 400V tube into
a circuit with 290V on the plate (say) will yield results that are essentially
the same as putting a 300V tube into the same circuit (although the 400V one
will probably last longer, since it's being run a lot farther away from its
danger zone). But put a 300V tube into a circuit with 350V on the plates, and
you'll soon notice a big difference, br-zap. You may also need to replace a
combusted output transformer.

Peace,
Paul

If I recall, the difference between 300V and 400V tubes is the *rating*, or
maximum voltage to which they can safely be subjected. Putting a 400V tube into
a circuit with 290V on the plate (say) will yield results that are essentially
the same as putting a 300V tube into the same circuit (although the 400V one
will probably last longer, since it's being run a lot farther away from its
danger zone). But put a 300V tube into a circuit with 350V on the plates, and
you'll soon notice a big difference, br-zap. You may also need to replace a
combusted output transformer.

Peace,
Paul

I recently swapped some orig RCA 6L6GCs into an old Fender where I had been
using various new power tubes for the past few yrs. The diff was astounding.
I suddenly remembered what a BF Fender was *supposed* to sound like.
Likewise, my Boogie MKIII has never sounded as good with replacement
tubes as it did w/its orig Sylvania 6L6s. The EH are probably the best
replacements I've tried to date, though, so things are improving.
Maybe someday someone will figure out how to REALLY make tubes again.

"Gareth Magennis" writes:
I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.

I recently swapped some orig RCA 6L6GCs into an old Fender where I had been
using various new power tubes for the past few yrs. The diff was astounding.
I suddenly remembered what a BF Fender was *supposed* to sound like.
Likewise, my Boogie MKIII has never sounded as good with replacement
tubes as it did w/its orig Sylvania 6L6s. The EH are probably the best
replacements I've tried to date, though, so things are improving.
Maybe someday someone will figure out how to REALLY make tubes again.

"Gareth Magennis" writes:
I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.

In article , georgeh
wrote:

I recently swapped some orig RCA 6L6GCs into an old Fender where I had been
using various new power tubes for the past few yrs. The diff was astounding.
I suddenly remembered what a BF Fender was *supposed* to sound like.
Likewise, my Boogie MKIII has never sounded as good with replacement
tubes as it did w/its orig Sylvania 6L6s. The EH are probably the best
replacements I've tried to date, though, so things are improving.
Maybe someday someone will figure out how to REALLY make tubes again.

"Gareth Magennis" writes:
I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.


the boogie's a re a realy special case they really only sound their
best with sylvanias in there. supposedly there were some chineese 6L6's
that kind of get the sylvania thing.

In article , georgeh
wrote:

I recently swapped some orig RCA 6L6GCs into an old Fender where I had been
using various new power tubes for the past few yrs. The diff was astounding.
I suddenly remembered what a BF Fender was *supposed* to sound like.
Likewise, my Boogie MKIII has never sounded as good with replacement
tubes as it did w/its orig Sylvania 6L6s. The EH are probably the best
replacements I've tried to date, though, so things are improving.
Maybe someday someone will figure out how to REALLY make tubes again.

"Gareth Magennis" writes:
I used to repair a fair few tube amps, and I have to say the Peavey Classic
was my favourite amp of all.

With regards tubes, the only sonic difference I ever noticed between brands
was that the cheap pre-amp ones, usually Chinese, were far more microphonic
than the more expensive counterparts, which can give a kind of unwanted
resonance to the sound or make the reverb feed back. Also the cheap power
output tubes don't last as long and one of a quartet is more likely to fail
early, meaning you really have to replace all 4 again..

But I'm not really much of a guitarist so I guess I could be missing the
subtle differences.


the boogie's a re a realy special case they really only sound their
best with sylvanias in there. supposedly there were some chineese 6L6's
that kind of get the sylvania thing.

In article , Roger W. Norman
wrote:

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and $250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.
those peavey classics are "ok" sounding but not anything special. i
wouldn't go crazy buying $500 worth of tubes for them. by the time you
did all that you could get yourself a nice blackface deluxe or
somethng or an origianl ampeg reverbarocket or jet (which is what
these amps sort of remind me of).

In article , Roger W. Norman
wrote:

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and $250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.
those peavey classics are "ok" sounding but not anything special. i
wouldn't go crazy buying $500 worth of tubes for them. by the time you
did all that you could get yourself a nice blackface deluxe or
somethng or an origianl ampeg reverbarocket or jet (which is what
these amps sort of remind me of).

I have spent a lot of time trying different tubes in varous mic pres,
compressors, guitar amps, and stomp boxes. This is with classics like
Mullards, Bugle Boys, and RCAs, to new hi quality ones from
Groove Tubes, NOS philips, to cheap Chinese tubes.

I never manage to drop some tubes in that stun me with the improvement
in tone. I find that there are some subtle improvements. It is
worth doing.

Recent example: Bought a '71 Traynor guitar amp for $5(!) at a garage
sale. Almost all of the tubes were missing. Ironically, the only one
in there was a 12AX7 used for the reverb section---but the reverb tank
had been pulled out of the amp!

So I have played around with a bunch of different tubes. It takes
EL84(6BQ5)s and 12AX7s. The only very significant change
is that for some reason, almost any 12AX7 that goes into the tremelo
section causes it to make a modulating sound even when the depth is
set to minimum. For some reason, I have one tube, all I know is that
it is made in Hungary, that doesn't cause this problem. I am sure
Scott will have a reason for this. Also, I switched one 12AX7 for
a 12AT7 that seems to take off a bit of an unpleasant edge.

Another time, I bought a whole bunch of extra tubes (used) to try on
my Altec 436cs. For this, I ran different tones in to the compressors
and watched how they came out on a scope. I went for the tubes that
gave me the best headroom, plus matched across the units.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on some boutique
tubes unless I could spend a lot of time trying them out. They may
sound better than some cheapies, but will they be a lot better than
the various new and used ones that are easily available? You may
be disappointed.

Rob R.

I have spent a lot of time trying different tubes in varous mic pres,
compressors, guitar amps, and stomp boxes. This is with classics like
Mullards, Bugle Boys, and RCAs, to new hi quality ones from
Groove Tubes, NOS philips, to cheap Chinese tubes.

I never manage to drop some tubes in that stun me with the improvement
in tone. I find that there are some subtle improvements. It is
worth doing.

Recent example: Bought a '71 Traynor guitar amp for $5(!) at a garage
sale. Almost all of the tubes were missing. Ironically, the only one
in there was a 12AX7 used for the reverb section---but the reverb tank
had been pulled out of the amp!

So I have played around with a bunch of different tubes. It takes
EL84(6BQ5)s and 12AX7s. The only very significant change
is that for some reason, almost any 12AX7 that goes into the tremelo
section causes it to make a modulating sound even when the depth is
set to minimum. For some reason, I have one tube, all I know is that
it is made in Hungary, that doesn't cause this problem. I am sure
Scott will have a reason for this. Also, I switched one 12AX7 for
a 12AT7 that seems to take off a bit of an unpleasant edge.

Another time, I bought a whole bunch of extra tubes (used) to try on
my Altec 436cs. For this, I ran different tones in to the compressors
and watched how they came out on a scope. I went for the tubes that
gave me the best headroom, plus matched across the units.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on some boutique
tubes unless I could spend a lot of time trying them out. They may
sound better than some cheapies, but will they be a lot better than
the various new and used ones that are easily available? You may
be disappointed.

Rob R.

mullards and stuff like that are typically associated with sounds
sytems for audiophiles. although my memory tells me that some guitar
people have slid them into a tube guitar amp from time to time.

the best "next ste" would be to get a matched set of Groove Tubes.
matched Groove Tubes are typically what people get when they care
about their tubes but aren't trying to become ridiculous about it.

mullards and stuff like that are typically associated with sounds
sytems for audiophiles. although my memory tells me that some guitar
people have slid them into a tube guitar amp from time to time.

the best "next ste" would be to get a matched set of Groove Tubes.
matched Groove Tubes are typically what people get when they care
about their tubes but aren't trying to become ridiculous about it.

Guitarboy writes:

the boogie's a re a realy special case they really only sound their
best with sylvanias in there. supposedly there were some chineese 6L6's
that kind of get the sylvania thing.

I bought some of those from Boogie a few yrs back. They didn't come
CLOSE to the orig Sylvanias IMO.

Guitarboy writes:

the boogie's a re a realy special case they really only sound their
best with sylvanias in there. supposedly there were some chineese 6L6's
that kind of get the sylvania thing.

I bought some of those from Boogie a few yrs back. They didn't come
CLOSE to the orig Sylvanias IMO.

Rob Reedijk wrote:


Bottom line is, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on some boutique
tubes unless I could spend a lot of time trying them out.

Especially for the Peavey. Instead of sinking another 500 into it, sell
it and buy one of the small boutique amps, complete with new tubes.

Rob Reedijk wrote:


Bottom line is, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on some boutique
tubes unless I could spend a lot of time trying them out.

Especially for the Peavey. Instead of sinking another 500 into it, sell
it and buy one of the small boutique amps, complete with new tubes.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

I have no affiliation with the man but you may want to try asking your
question to Lord Valve.
. He hangs out on alt.guitar.amps and a few other
newsgroups.
http://www.nebsnow.com/LordValve


What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

If you removing the a pair of tubes make sure you change the speaker output
impedence selector.

Regards Simon


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/03

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

I have no affiliation with the man but you may want to try asking your
question to Lord Valve.
. He hangs out on alt.guitar.amps and a few other
newsgroups.
http://www.nebsnow.com/LordValve


What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

If you removing the a pair of tubes make sure you change the speaker output
impedence selector.

Regards Simon


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/03

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for.

--
Get some expert advice before trying this. I think I read somewhere (on the
internet, so apply grain of salt) that in this amp the power tubes aren't
wired in parallel, so pulling two of the tubes for lower power won't work.

Darryl

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for.

--
Get some expert advice before trying this. I think I read somewhere (on the
internet, so apply grain of salt) that in this amp the power tubes aren't
wired in parallel, so pulling two of the tubes for lower power won't work.

Darryl

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

Didn't think any of the other posts helped so I'll start at the top. I've
had a reasonable amount of experience tube-swapping, including swapping
power tubes in the same tweed Peavey Classic 50 you have (there's an older
black one that used a pair of EL34's, nice amp too).

Most of my tube swapping has been done on gear that is far more demanding on
tone (studio or audiophile home stereo), where a guitar amp is demanding on
durability more than anything. I'm convinced that Telefunkens are generally
the best-sounding and most durable tubes on the market, though there are
some close competition from Mullard, and Amperex, while Siemens and Philips
certainly know their stuff too. I currently have 5 mid-60's vintage
Telefunken ECC83's and a matched quad of mid-80's Mullard EL34's in my Class
A home stereo amp, and the difference in sound quality compared to Sovteks
is *staggering*. I have put a matched quad of late-60's vintage Amperex
EL84's in the Classic 50 and there was definitely an appreciable difference
across the entire spectrum, but was it worth what they would cost on the
open market ($200+)?

Hell no! Tubes of that level belong in much more refined circuits
responsible for a full audio spectrum, and not in a combo chassis and not
driving a mediocre full-range speaker. There are several tube makers that
achieve a level of quality that would be all you should expect to gain from
a guitar amp, and at a much more suitable price.

Inexpensive brands I like:
JJ/Tesla (Slovak Rep.)
Ei (Yugoslavia - "Philips-equivalent")
RFT (Germany - "Telefunken-equivalent")
Svetlana (Russia)

Popular brands I don't like:
*anything* Chinese, very very few exceptions
Golden Dragon / Shuguang (Chinese)
Groove Tubes (tested and picked Chinese, still crap)
Sovtek (Russia, some exceptions, but generally better tubes available for
same money)
Electro Harmonix (re-branded Sovteks)

If I were you I'd stay with standard 6BQ5 EL84's and get two matched pairs
of one of the good brands I mentioned, or look for a deal on eBay for new
old stock (NOS) or tested used sets from reputable sellers. 7189's and
E84L's are designed to handle higher plate voltages, which you'll have to
modify the amp to achieve, can't see it being worthwhile.

Alright, I admit it, I have a cheap Peavey Classic 50 with 4 EL84s (6BQ5)
and I'm looking to replace them with higher quality tubes. I'm currently
at
www.vacuumtubes.com/6bq5.html and wondering if, for the purposes of this
amp, if there's a reason to go high dollar on the tubes. There are
Mullards
and Telefunkens available for $150 /pair to $250, respectively. There are
also E84Ls and 7189s, both of which are higher quality than the 6BQ5s. So
the question is, assuming the plate voltage design for the Classic 50,
whether there's a reason to go to 400 V across the plates or stay with the
standard 300 V. I'm making the wild hair assumption that the 400 V tubes
would kinda force the power supply to sag somewhat, yielding less volume
overall but coming up with more of a compressed output. Obviously I could
have everything wrong.

What I'm looking at is to yank two of the tubes and run 25 watts out of
this
amp rather than the 50 it was designed for. When it comes to electronics
and math, I'm stoooopid and I admit it. The problem starts when you're
talking about the difference of $8 per tube for standard 6BQ5s and
$250/pair
for Telefunkens, and the intermediate steps between.

Didn't think any of the other posts helped so I'll start at the top. I've
had a reasonable amount of experience tube-swapping, including swapping
power tubes in the same tweed Peavey Classic 50 you have (there's an older
black one that used a pair of EL34's, nice amp too).

Most of my tube swapping has been done on gear that is far more demanding on
tone (studio or audiophile home stereo), where a guitar amp is demanding on
durability more than anything. I'm convinced that Telefunkens are generally
the best-sounding and most durable tubes on the market, though there are
some close competition from Mullard, and Amperex, while Siemens and Philips
certainly know their stuff too. I currently have 5 mid-60's vintage
Telefunken ECC83's and a matched quad of mid-80's Mullard EL34's in my Class
A home stereo amp, and the difference in sound quality compared to Sovteks
is *staggering*. I have put a matched quad of late-60's vintage Amperex
EL84's in the Classic 50 and there was definitely an appreciable difference
across the entire spectrum, but was it worth what they would cost on the
open market ($200+)?

Hell no! Tubes of that level belong in much more refined circuits
responsible for a full audio spectrum, and not in a combo chassis and not
driving a mediocre full-range speaker. There are several tube makers that
achieve a level of quality that would be all you should expect to gain from
a guitar amp, and at a much more suitable price.

Inexpensive brands I like:
JJ/Tesla (Slovak Rep.)
Ei (Yugoslavia - "Philips-equivalent")
RFT (Germany - "Telefunken-equivalent")
Svetlana (Russia)

Popular brands I don't like:
*anything* Chinese, very very few exceptions
Golden Dragon / Shuguang (Chinese)
Groove Tubes (tested and picked Chinese, still crap)
Sovtek (Russia, some exceptions, but generally better tubes available for
same money)
Electro Harmonix (re-branded Sovteks)

If I were you I'd stay with standard 6BQ5 EL84's and get two matched pairs
of one of the good brands I mentioned, or look for a deal on eBay for new
old stock (NOS) or tested used sets from reputable sellers. 7189's and
E84L's are designed to handle higher plate voltages, which you'll have to
modify the amp to achieve, can't see it being worthwhile.

In article writes:

wouldn't go crazy buying $500 worth of tubes for them. by the time you
did all that you could get yourself a nice blackface deluxe or
somethng or an origianl ampeg reverbarocket

I have a Reverbrocket (but it doesn't have the original speaker). Is
it REALLY worth $500? Some people got no sense at all.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )