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  #11  
Old April 21st 17, 04:12 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Dan Espen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

Trevor > writes:

> On 21/04/2017 6:00 AM, geoff wrote:
>> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
>>> settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
>>> to write the apps for Android.
>>>

>>
>> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>
> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
> Not everyone is a complete numpty, although perhaps you are?
> Sadly most people never get them adjusted to maximum performance
> because after going back a few times to the audiologist they get sick
> of it and give up. Even worse, many who get free aids through the
> government pension scheme give up, throw them in the draw and never
> use them. I know a few like that, a complete waste of taxpayer money
> to subsidise audiologists pension funds. :-(


I find unsubstantiated cynicism disturbing.
It speaks to paranoia which is a mental illness.
Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any insurance,
let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists
have pension funds? Apparently, only you.

Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
hearing evaluations.

My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access
the hearing aids, I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any
safety arguments. But I don't know how to analyze the
results of a hearing test and convert that into hearing aid
settings. I'm not upset that I don't have the software.
It's probably just as well.

--
Dan Espen
Ads
  #12  
Old April 21st 17, 05:31 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Rich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

In comp.misc Trevor > wrote:
> On 21/04/2017 6:00 AM, geoff wrote:
>> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
>>> settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
>>> to write the apps for Android.
>>>

>>
>> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>
> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
> Not everyone is a complete numpty, although perhaps you are?
> Sadly most people never get them adjusted to maximum performance because
> after going back a few times to the audiologist they get sick of it and
> give up.


And some (my grandmother and my mother) waited until they were deaf
enough before trying any that they had gotten acclimated to the "quiet"
that results from being considerably deaf. And after putting them in
their ears all they wanted to do was turn the volume way down because
of all the "noise" (all the normal background sounds that those of us
with normal hearing can't turn off, so our brains learn to ignore it).
Resulting in significantly reduced effectiveness of the hearing aid,
and eventual frustration and giving up on the devices as "they just
don't work".

  #13  
Old April 21st 17, 05:54 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Johnny B Good
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:00:07 +1200, geoff wrote:

> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>
>
>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and
>> mode settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too
>> slack to write the apps for Android.
>>
>>

> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?
>


+1

It might interest you to know that the classic 20KHz "Upper Frequency
Limit of Human Hearing" is derived from the point on the Fletcher Munsen
response curves where this upper frequency corresponds to both the
highest detectable single tone frequency and the the threshold of pain
(aka dangerously high SPL).

As we age beyond our early twenties, this upper limit where we can sense
a single tone frequency at the maximum safe SPL threshold drops in
frequency. Continuous exposure to high SPLs accelerates this reduction in
the maximum frequency limit of hearing in each individual's case. It's
quite important to tailor a hearing aid's frequency response and gain so
as to avoid needlessly doing more harm than good.

--
Johnny B Good
  #14  
Old April 21st 17, 09:29 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Julian Macassey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:12:31 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>
> Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
> hearing evaluations.
>
> My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access
> the hearing aids,


I'm sorry to hear that. Pity they couldn't have used a
less mediocre platform.

> I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any
> safety arguments. But I don't know how to analyze the
> results of a hearing test and convert that into hearing aid
> settings.


Have you considered that the software takes care of that?

> I'm not upset that I don't have the software.
> It's probably just as well.


Is the software a proprietary app that is written by and
for the hearing aid manufacturer?



--
Communism is Soviet power plus the electrification of the whole
country. - Vladimir Lenin
  #15  
Old April 21st 17, 11:28 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Dan Espen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

Julian Macassey > writes:

> On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:12:31 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>>
>> Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
>> hearing evaluations.
>>
>> My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access the hearing
>> aids,

>
> I'm sorry to hear that. Pity they couldn't have used a less mediocre
> platform.


Yep.

>> I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any safety arguments. But I don't
>> know how to analyze the results of a hearing test and convert that
>> into hearing aid settings.

>
> Have you considered that the software takes care of that?


That occurred to me after hitting send. That might be where my original
settings came from, but I had a few visits, interviews and 2 adjustments
so far.

>> I'm not upset that I don't have the software. It's probably just as
>> well.

>
> Is the software a proprietary app that is written by and for the
> hearing aid manufacturer?


I'm sure.

The manufacturer is Phonak...

okay, my audiologist told me the software wasn't available, but here it
is:

https://www.phonakpro.com/us/en/supp...downloads.html
http://tinyurl.com/me9ozjl

THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE BY UNQUALIFIED PERSONS AS A NON-HEARING CARE
PROFESSIONAL CAN RESULT IN PERSONAL INJURY. PHONAK IS EXEMPT FROM ANY
LIABILITY WHICH OCCURS BY SUCH UNAUTHORIZED USE.

Looks like Phonak sells instructions:

https://www.phonakpro.com/us/en/supp...fg-target.html
http://tinyurl.com/kpnp8wq

I didn't try to log in.


--
Dan Espen
  #16  
Old April 22nd 17, 12:04 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Julian Macassey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:28:36 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
> Julian Macassey > writes:
>
>> hearing aid manufacturer?

>
> I'm sure.
>
> The manufacturer is Phonak...
>
> okay, my audiologist told me the software wasn't available, but here it
> is:
>
> https://www.phonakpro.com/us/en/supp...downloads.html
> http://tinyurl.com/me9ozjl


Software and manual I note.

>
> THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE BY UNQUALIFIED PERSONS AS A NON-HEARING CARE
> PROFESSIONAL CAN RESULT IN PERSONAL INJURY. PHONAK IS EXEMPT FROM ANY
> LIABILITY WHICH OCCURS BY SUCH UNAUTHORIZED USE.


In other words "NO USER SERVICABLE PARTS INSIDE". We've
all seen that before.


--
"They hate our freedoms" - George W. Bush, September 20, 2001
  #17  
Old April 22nd 17, 09:38 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
RS Wood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default [CM] Hearing aids --> back to Headphones

On 2017-04-21, Dan Espen > wrote:
> I find unsubstantiated cynicism disturbing. It speaks to paranoia which
> is a mental illness. Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any
> insurance, let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists have
> pension funds? Apparently, only you.


An interesting and unfortunate segue. Turns out Bose headphones have just
been observed sending data back to headquarters that includes some
surprisingly personal data, like lists of the songs you're listening to.
You've got to install their Bose app on your smartphone for this to happen,
and you don't necessarily need the app. Still, an issue.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...teners-n748311

You can see where a bunch of audio engineers would find value in knowing
what songs were actually being listened to so they can tailor the equipment
to play that music well. Still, an issue.

Lots of nerd rage at Hacker News:
http://fortune.com/2017/04/19/bose-headphones-privacy/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14148145
  #18  
Old April 23rd 17, 01:01 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Dan Espen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default [CM] Hearing aids --> back to Headphones

RS Wood > writes:

> On 2017-04-21, Dan Espen > wrote:
>> I find unsubstantiated cynicism disturbing. It speaks to paranoia which
>> is a mental illness. Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any
>> insurance, let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists have
>> pension funds? Apparently, only you.

>
> An interesting and unfortunate segue. Turns out Bose headphones have just
> been observed sending data back to headquarters that includes some
> surprisingly personal data, like lists of the songs you're listening to.
> You've got to install their Bose app on your smartphone for this to happen,
> and you don't necessarily need the app. Still, an issue.
>
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...teners-n748311
>
> You can see where a bunch of audio engineers would find value in knowing
> what songs were actually being listened to so they can tailor the equipment
> to play that music well. Still, an issue.


Audio engineers? I think not.
This Bose thing is pretty simple, Bose planned to sell the data to data
mining companies. (The article mentions this.)
That's the sales people and management. They are just trying to
maximize profit at the expense of their customers.

--
Dan Espen
  #19  
Old April 23rd 17, 03:09 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,722
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 2:54 AM, Johnny B Good wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:00:07 +1200, geoff wrote:
>
>> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and
>>> mode settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too
>>> slack to write the apps for Android.
>>>
>>>

>> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?
>>

>
> +1
>
> It might interest you to know that the classic 20KHz "Upper Frequency
> Limit of Human Hearing" is derived from the point on the Fletcher Munsen
> response curves where this upper frequency corresponds to both the
> highest detectable single tone frequency and the the threshold of pain
> (aka dangerously high SPL).
>
> As we age beyond our early twenties, this upper limit where we can sense
> a single tone frequency at the maximum safe SPL threshold drops in
> frequency.


And you really think this is not common knowledge? You could have added
it is worse for males than females if you just want to state the obvious.


> Continuous exposure to high SPLs accelerates this reduction in
> the maximum frequency limit of hearing in each individual's case. It's
> quite important to tailor a hearing aid's frequency response and gain so
> as to avoid needlessly doing more harm than good.


What a load of crap, most hearing aids don't go past 8kHz. The damage is
already done by loud rock bands and perhaps using MP3 players at
excessive levels. Still I agree for people like yourself who are
apparently unable to do the job properly, better leave it to a
professional. I guess you have an audiologist adjust you HiFi volume and
TV volume control as well! :-)

FWIW, there IS one company who provides self programmable aids and the
software to do it, Blamey-Saunders. I bet their customers are told what
not to do as I would expect. And I bet they like having control
themselves. People who don't have far more alternative choices though. :-(

Trevor.

  #20  
Old April 23rd 17, 03:10 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,722
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 21/04/2017 10:17 PM, geoff wrote:
> On 21/04/2017 4:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>> nd Harry further
>>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>>
>> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
>> Not everyone is a complete numpty,

>
> That's why everybody can be an expert concert mixing engineer too.


And why everybody needs an audiologist to adjust their HiFi for them
perhaps?

Trevor.


 




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