A Audio and hi-fi forum. AudioBanter

Go Back   Home » AudioBanter forum » rec.audio » Tech
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

infinity overture 2 repair



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old May 22nd 14, 04:00 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
chuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default infinity overture 2 repair

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Jason Kooner
> wrote:

>On Monday, April 21, 2014 8:55:55 AM UTC-5, chuck wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT), Jason Kooner
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:55:19 AM UTC-5, chuck wrote:

>>
>> >> On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 20:59:26 -0700 (PDT), Jason Kooner

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> > wrote:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >On Monday, March 31, 2014 3:19:13 PM UTC-5, chuck wrote:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:19:55 -0700 (PDT), Jason Kooner

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> > wrote:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >On Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:37:06 PM UTC-5, Mark Zacharias wrote:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> "chuck" > wrote in message

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> ...

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> > On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 21:23:14 -0700 (PDT), Jason Kooner

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> > > wrote:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>Hello,

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>I have a pair of infinity overture 2 speakers. They have an internal amp

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>to power the woofer section. However, I don't here anything from the

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>woofer. There is a midrange and tweeter that are not powered and they work

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>fine.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>I unplugged one of the speakers and opened it up. There is some black dust

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>on the pcb near the power fets. There are 4 fets and they are all shorted.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>The fets are Fairchild IRFS250B. I couldn't find these (too old) so I

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>replaced them with ST Micro STW40NF20 fets. Also the power fets are

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>grouped in 2 pairs with one pair having an NPN transistor between them,

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>why doesn't the other power mosfet pair have this NPN transistor? The NPN

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>is a Fairchild 2012, it measures ok with a meter but I went ahead and

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>replaced it anyway.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>I plugged in the speaker and tested it. The woofer is alive now but sounds

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>terrible, it's all distorted. The midrange and tweeter are fine.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>I plan to bring a scope and thermal camera home from work for the weekend

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>to take some more measurements.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>Questions:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>1. Was that wrong to sub in the ST Micro fets? I did a datasheet

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>comparsion and didn't see anything special about the Fairchild fet.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>2. Does anyone have a schematic for this pcb?

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>3. What other parts should I look at?

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>I think I was too quick to clean the black dust and should off spent some

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>more time trying to figure out the source!

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>Cheers!

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >>-jason

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> > Check for open resistors and open drive transistors.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> UGH. Had to work on one of these once. Reminded me of a car amp.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> Don't forget to use an isolation transformer.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> The manual can be downloaded from Elektrotanya or you can email me at:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> and reverse "labolgcbs" to read "sbcglobal".

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> They do get a number of open resistors. I my case, a predriver looked good

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> but wasn't. Caused additional heartache. Got it working, but it wasn't worth

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> the trouble for me. If business hadn't been slow I would have just turned it

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> away.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >> Mark Z.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >I have the manual now ...thanks. Also I did find some 0.22ohm half watt resistors that were open. There is also one BF469 NPN transistor that is bad but I can't find it online. I tried searching for recommended alternate but no one carries those either...too old.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >Can I just lookup the Hfe, voltage and ft on the datasheet and search on mouser od digikey for the same specs? Or does anyone know of a BF496 sub that I can get in 2014?

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >thanks,

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> >-jason

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >> NTE108. Mouser Electronics or MCM may have it in stock.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >I replaced the bad components but it failed again. I think I missed a few 1K fusible resistors that are open. They connect to the gates of the power fets so I think the gate was floating on 2 fets when I fired it up.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >I'll replace all the bad parts again but this time I'll bring it up slowly at my work since I have better equipment there.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >I do have 2 questions:

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >1. On page 32/35 of the schematic there is a 2K pot in the near the middle of the page. I assuming this is used to adjust the bias of the power stage to some level. I have a function generator to help with this, where should I place my scope probes when adjusting this pot and what am I looking for?

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >
http://elektrotanya.com/infinity_ove.../download.html
>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >2. On the same page there is a 1K 2W (R68) resistor on one of the relay contacts, what is this for?

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >thanks,

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >-jason

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> >

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> I would replace all transistors Q 8 to Q 16. Make sure none of the

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> fused resistors are open. Check all zeners for leakage and shorts.

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> Also D11. Put a 60 to 100 watt light bulb in series with the hot side

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> of the AC input and, once the light bulb dims and the relay closes,

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> plug the amp directly into the wall and measure bias across one of the

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> .22 ohm resistors on the output fets. (Infinity specifies R77) Adjust

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> for 5.9 mv after running the amp for 15 minutes. The pot is a bias

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> pot. The R68 resistor appears to drain off the offset voltage when

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> the amp powers down. This design is at least 30 years old so there

>>
>> >>

>>
>> >> shouldn't be any issues that Mark Z or I haven't seen before.

>>
>> >

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- I replaced Q8-Q16.

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- I subbed 2N5655G for the BF469 and MJE350STU for the BF470

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- I powered it up using a DC bench supply with the current limit set to about 1A

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- The power fets were getting very hot.

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- I checked more parts, R74 shold be 36ohms and measured 36K so I changed it.

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- I brought the DC input up to 160V and the power fets are not getting hot.

>>
>> >

>>
>> >- The input power is about 4W

>>
>> >

>>
>> >

>>
>> >Questions:

>>
>> >

>>
>> >1. The Vgs of the high side fets (Q13,Q14) is about 2.8V and the low side fets (Q15,Q16) are 2.0V, shouldn't they all be the same?

>>
>> >

>>
>> >2. Before I plug this into the mains I want to make sure I know how to bias this right. Chuck, you mention setting R77 to 5.9mV, what about measuring the output voltage (Q16 Drain) and set it to 80V (half the DC input)?

>>
>> >

>>
>> >3. Looking at the schematic, I can see the 160VDC bus is not regulated. Won't the bias conditions change if the 160VDC changes? Do newer designs use a regulated supply?

>>
>> >

>>
>> >4. This design used 4 NFETSs instead of 2 NFETS for the low side and 2 PFETS for the high side. Is this for cost? Are newer designs done this way?

>>
>> >

>>
>> >

>>
>> >thanks,

>>
>> >

>>
>> >-jason

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about issue 1 just yet. Power the unit up using the
>>
>> light bulb technique that I mentioned in a previous post.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 2. You need to set the bias the way I said but you don't set
>>
>> the bias before you ascertain that the amplifier is working properly.
>>
>> When the light bulb is still in circuit, inject a low frequency sine
>>
>> wave into the input and watch the output for symmetrical clipping.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 3. Amplifiers have been made with unregulated supplies for
>>
>> generations. After the amplifier warms up, set bias with the AC input
>>
>> around 120 V AC and you should be good to go.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 4. I have no idea. The schematic I am looking at has a total
>>
>> of 4 fets 2 top 2 bottom. If I was to guess, Infinity probably used a
>>
>> lower current fet for the bottom so twice as many were necessary
>>
>> although I have never seen that before and I have been repairing amps
>>
>> since 1971. Chuck

>
>
>
>Chuck, thanks for you help I think it working better now. I did read the service manual and I see the part about the 5.9mV.
>
>I inserted a light bulb in series with the hot side and adjusted the pot until the light bulb shut off. So, the light bulb is needed to adjust the pot to prevent shoot-through current when the amp is plugged directly into the mains?
>I then plugged the amp directly into the mains and adjusted the pot for 5.9mV on R77.
>
>Next I put the bulb back in and injected a 30Hz signal. I increased the signal until it clipped but it's not symmetrical, it starts to clip at the bottom first:
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/124747...5/14259458203/
>
>
>do you think there is still something wrong? I did connect it the speaker and it sounded ok to me.
>
>
>I also took a thermal scan of the pcb without any load on the output and noticed one hot component. The 5.1K resistor (R23) used in the 24V supply reaches 157C. Power dissipation was measured at 3.2W
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/124747...5/14052632878/
>
>
>The pcb is discolored around R23 so I'm thinking of replacing it with a TO-247 package so it can mount to the frame just like the power fets.
>
>I started to troubleshoot the second amplifier and noticed that the pcb is slightly different from the first amplifier. There is note about this in the service manual. The second board has a MPSU06 transistor for Q11 and I cannot find a cross for this? The first amp has 2SD2012 for Q11 can I just use this? The EBC pinout is different from the MPSU06 so I would need a few cuts/jumpers.
>I cannot even find a datasheet for the MPSU06, the closest I could get is MPSU01. Could someone show me where the MPSU06 datasheet is?
>
>thanks,
>
>-jason



Jason,
http://www.abra-electronics.com/prod...PN-2A-80V.html
Here is a link to the MPS U06.

The clipping issue depends on if the other side clips with a slight
increase of the input signal. If it doesn't, there is still a
problem. (Driver or output circuitry, something open) Chuck
Ads
  #12  
Old March 25th 17, 09:03 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default infinity overture 2 repair

I have the same speakers with same problem. How do you get to the amp? Get them open?
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Infinity Active Subwoofer Repair Help [email protected] Tech 1 September 16th 06 10:06 PM
Infinity overture 1 amp problem M. R. Brown Tech 8 January 17th 04 09:20 AM
Infinity Kappa 6 speaker repair Joe Cipale General 1 January 4th 04 04:33 PM
Infinity Kappa 6 speaker repair Joe Cipale Marketplace 1 January 4th 04 04:33 PM
WANTED: Infinity CC-3 or Overture-1 JDHart Marketplace 0 September 11th 03 09:20 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 AudioBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.