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#41
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Albie wrote:
Why does one never seem to get a straight answer around here? 8-) We do not *do* simple around here, it is against the union contract. AFAICS, all you need do is to play your MP3 files back via software that offers "Reverse" channels. You're on your own there, because I still use WinAmp 2.8 (?), and this primitive does not offer that feature. Most dedicated pre-amps _do_ have a channel reverse. It is still a "must remember" thing, what is asked about is a "get it right" thing. Failing this, you require a file editor that allows Copy/Paste, but now you must reverse each of your files. No, no no and no. You only do that for a spoiler that allows you to identify what work P.D.Q. Bach has pdq'ed. I realize you want to avoid doing this. (Sound Forge is good, but WaveOSaur is legitimately free! 8-) Its downside is, of course, a total lack of a manual.) Reverse is a simple word with a clear meaning, since you ask for simplicity and clarity please ponder at least 3/8's of a millisecond on what it actually means. As to the wag who derides playing classical music with MP3 files, he should avoid paper, pen and ink as they say. It is well-established by now that the vast majority of mortals can discern no difference when the sources have been well-recorded. First the took the psychoacoustics and based encode-decode schemes on them, next those schemes had to be modified based on listening tests. My current level of outdated information is that the books have not yet been rewritten. I have also seen politically correct AES papers that - imo correctly - put the major part of the difference between 96 k sample rate recordings and 48 k sample rate recordings in the category "those that use it also care more about sound quality". When differences were statistically proved, the few golden-eared listeners (like the VP of A&R at DG) preferred the MP3 sound to the CD!! 8-) What makes you assume that said VP has hearing that is perfect, even if only by ENT standards that require only that he understands spoken word. There is one special case where mp3 encoding can be helpful, one and only one. That case is distortion or artifacts from digital noise reduction, such small and audibly very bothering noises will be discarded in mp3 encoding. I understand that many heavyweights in the field of psychology were involved when MP3 was developed and tested. It is nothing to deprecate. Read the latter part of the above paragraph and the stuff about the non-rewritten books on psychoacoustics again. The real rorschach test of mp3 is whether a Strad sounds like one afterwards, and it doesn't, it sounds like a Yamaha. Oh, and I can't remember who it was, but some world-class conductor did place his violin section on the right. 8-) I you may be writing about the alternative viennese orchestra setup. My recollection is that it is not used as much because the standard setup makes it easist for all the musicians to keep the pitch, it may be imperfect. Albie Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
David Nebenzahl wrote:
Dunno about violins on the right (don't doubt it, just have never heard of that), but I do know that George Szell (Cleveland Orch.) swapped the violas and celli, putting the violas on the outside right. (There's a picture showing this on the cover of an ablum I have of his.) No doubt there have been other unconventional seating arrangements used over the years. Doing that has some merit because it makes them more well defined by being closer to the audience, but it has the disadvantage that the instrument radiates away from the audience rather than towards it. In a string quartet it is the setup I prefer from a recording viewpoint tho' ... violas can get lost between 2' and cello otherwise, and the cello as the third from the left as seen from the audience will also project more in the direction of the audience than it will in position 4 and thus it is better able to compensat for being in the 2' tier. In full ensemble as well as in chamber ensemble context it primarily must be about required communication in the ensemble, so for the same ensemble it could be work, ie. performed oeuvre, dependent. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#43
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Albie wrote:
On MP3 files? Without re-encoding? No. Seems unlikely that there are ANY applications that can manipulate MP3 without decoding and re-encoding. Same problem in the video world with most flavors of MPEG. Au contraire! I just did it. With Audacity, one loads an MP3 file, edits same and then "Exports" it back to Either an MP3 file or a WAV file! It probably does silently convert to RAW in order to edit, but the user has no inkling of it. I trust you about the magnitude of inkling, but you yourself describe a decode-encode. THIS JUST IN! I see where WaveOSaur has a "Swap Channels" function. I have not used it, but it appears as a MenuItem under the "Process" Menu. HEY, FINALLY A DIRECT ANSWER TO A QUESTION !! 8-) No Albie, the OP wants it right for all files he downloads to his preferred earbuster. Albie Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#44
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Andrej Kluge wrote:
My MP3s have 256 kb/s, and this is OK for me. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway (the trebles are dwindling), so this is -- for me -- the best tradeoff between quality and file size. It is not about treble, it is about detail, except that treble can get splatty at low bit rates. Some of the time I downsample to 32 kHz samplerate prior to encoding when using max quality variable bit rate ... anyway: mp3 sounds like the lack of detail just after a major noise exposure .... that lack of detail applies 20-whatever it allows, the mptreble over 14 kHz kinda sounds like white noise anyway .... I seriously think that not bothering the encode with it is better than having it splattified. Ciao AK Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#45
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Side by side in an otherwise silent room, sure I can tell an MP3 from a wave file. Ah to even have a room where I could do that on a regular basis ... Better check with Arny's ABX software, it is good for the modesty, not all nuances are best detected in short abx listening sessions, but it does put things in a good order of importance. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#46
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
On 1/27/2010 12:08 AM Peter Larsen spake thus:
Andrej Kluge wrote: geoff wrote: Of course I could just reverse the ear plugs of my headphones, but this is no real solution... This is presumable some file where sides really matter ? Actually, yes. This is classical music, and if the violins play on the wrong side it sounds definitely weird. Are there only pop/rock aficionados present who don't understand this? There is no reason why absolute L and R should not also matter in other renderings of real or imaginary acoustic events. I dunno; take a listen to the opening track of Jimi Hendrix's "Axis: Bold as Love". Does it really matter if the whooshy sounds pan from right to left to right, or vice versa? -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
#47
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Peter Larsen wrote: No Albie, the OP wants it right for all files he downloads to his preferred earbuster. Um, actually no. As I wrote I want it only for this special case -- a CD box which I ripped from CD (not downloaded) and which has the audio channels reversed (maybe it was done intentionally?). Ok, I confess: while it is indeed classical music, it is no orchestral music, but solo harpsichord. The trebles are on the left and the bass is on the right, i.e. like you would hear it if you stand on the other side of the harpsichord, facing the pianist (as opposed to what the pianist himself would hear). That was a very strange experience. But I tell you what: meanwhile (I'm about halfway through listening to it now) I got accustomed to it :-) Ciao AK |
#48
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/27/2010 12:08 AM Peter Larsen spake thus: Andrej Kluge wrote: geoff wrote: Of course I could just reverse the ear plugs of my headphones, but this is no real solution... This is presumable some file where sides really matter ? Actually, yes. This is classical music, and if the violins play on the wrong side it sounds definitely weird. Are there only pop/rock aficionados present who don't understand this? There is no reason why absolute L and R should not also matter in other renderings of real or imaginary acoustic events. I dunno; take a listen to the opening track of Jimi Hendrix's "Axis: Bold as Love". Does it really matter if the whooshy sounds pan from right to left to right, or vice versa? How about a drumkit eh? - nothing said about the w i d t h of said. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#49
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Andrej Kluge wrote:
Hi, Peter Larsen wrote: No Albie, the OP wants it right for all files he downloads to his preferred earbuster. Um, actually no. As I wrote I want it only for this special case -- a CD box which I ripped from CD (not downloaded) and which has the audio channels reversed (maybe it was done intentionally?). Ok, I confess: while it is indeed classical music, it is no orchestral music, but solo harpsichord. The trebles are on the left and the bass is on the right, i.e. like you would hear it if you stand on the other side of the harpsichord, facing the pianist (as opposed to what the pianist himself would hear). That was a very strange experience. But I tell you what: meanwhile (I'm about halfway through listening to it now) I got accustomed to it :-) I record from the audience's perspective. Generally that would imply recording any "piano class" object at least partly from the side it opens the lid towards since that side would normally be the one the audience hears. Ciao AK Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#50
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
geoff wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote: Mr.T wrote: And anybody who claims they are unable to tell an MP3 from a wave file, and still fails to make any mention of bit rates is just as stupid! That or they listen to their music in their car and the background noise overwhelms any of that detail. Why do so few folks listen to classical music in their car? You mean there were supposed to be violins going while that truck went by? I think the "wall of sound" concept was introduced to rock music because so many folks were listening to the music on their car radios so the music needed to overwhelm that truck going by. I use 256K (non-joint) stereo MP3s in my car on long trips. I can hear the difference easily between these and the source CDs, in the car, while driving, and that with average pop-rock, let alone anything more subtle. Clearly your hearing works differently than mine. I've seen people moving their lips in very loud environments like rock concerts. Clearly they believe the person they are facing will be able to hear them and therefore they think they could hear the person facing them. Not me. High enough background noise overwhlems the sound for me and turns it off. If I'm in a car on the interstate and I go by a big truck it doesn't matter in the least what sort of sound is theoretically coming out of the speakers. It's enough Db under the level of the truck so it's turned off for me. I do wish there was such a thing as a test that measures hearing loss in a way that has meaning in industrialized society. I get that playing a quiet sound in a silent room does have some use. I've tried playing those ring tones that kids use that adults can't here and I can only hear the sound 5-10 years younger than the table predicts. But high pitch pure tones aren't of much use when I'm at the airport and a jet passes overhead. Or walking past a construction site with a jack hammer. Or at a rock concert watching someone's lips move and figuring they believe I should be able to hear something. |
#51
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Dick Pierce wrote: Andrej Kluge wrote: Ok, I confess: while it is indeed classical music, it is no orchestral music, but solo harpsichord. The trebles are on the left and the bass is on the right, i.e. like you would hear it if you stand on the other side of the harpsichord, facing the pianist (as opposed to what the pianist himself would hear). One minor nit to start: pianists play, as a general rule, pianos, not harpsichords. Harpsichordists, cembalists or clavicinists play harpischords. I knew someone would notice that slip :-) (the word escaped me when I wrote this) Be that as it may, I have several harpsichords here. You lucky dog. The radiation pattern of such intruments is EXCEEDINGLY complex and variable. Where, in fact, the major portion of a given note is radiated from the soundboard is not at all well correlated with the position of the key that sounded that not. And further, which portion of the note (spectrally) is radiated form where is as well VERY complex. Well, I know how a grand piano looks inside, and that the strings here are crossed so the direction where the sound comes from is indeed not easy to discern. However, from what I've seen of cembalo (harpsichords) pictures their strings are straight, i.e. the long (bass) strings are on the left (seen from the player). Your stated phenomenon of a clear left-right auditory sense of where a note is oming from is exceedingly difficult to detect when you are sitting at the keyboard playing and make the concious effort to isolate what your hands are doing and, positionally, what your ears are hearing. I just listened to other cembalo recordings of my collection (with headphones or course) and noticed that in most of them (except the one in question, and one other recording) both bass and treble comes (more or less) from the center. The other recording with rather clear left/right separation of bass/treble has the bass on the left and treble on right. For the audience, such a clear left-right distinction is simply absent auditorially, even from someone sitting 10 feet from the instrument. Yes, of course. All that being said, the vast majority of harpsichord recordings that exhibit a distinct bass-to-left, treble- to-right image do so unnaturally, some to the point of sounding just plain wierd. Well, I wondered myself how these CDs have been recorded. Presumably with two microphones hung directly into the instrument? The cembalo here is very closely recorded, with practically no reverb (I like that since it brings out contrapuntal structures very clearly). BTW, it's the 10 CD box with Händel's complete harpsichord music played by Eberhard Kraus. But, if you want weird, I suppose you get to demand the proper wierd. Sorry, I don't understand that (which may be because I'm German) Thanks and Ciao AK |
#52
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
On 1/27/2010 7:55 AM Peter Larsen spake thus:
David Nebenzahl wrote: On 1/27/2010 12:08 AM Peter Larsen spake thus: Andrej Kluge wrote: geoff wrote: Of course I could just reverse the ear plugs of my headphones, but this is no real solution... This is presumable some file where sides really matter ? Actually, yes. This is classical music, and if the violins play on the wrong side it sounds definitely weird. Are there only pop/rock aficionados present who don't understand this? There is no reason why absolute L and R should not also matter in other renderings of real or imaginary acoustic events. I dunno; take a listen to the opening track of Jimi Hendrix's "Axis: Bold as Love". Does it really matter if the whooshy sounds pan from right to left to right, or vice versa? How about a drumkit eh? - nothing said about the w i d t h of said. Huh? What on earth does that have to do with channel assignment. Sometimes you're just *out there*, man. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Andrej Kluge wrote:
Hi, Peter Larsen wrote: No Albie, the OP wants it right for all files he downloads to his preferred earbuster. Um, actually no. As I wrote I want it only for this special case -- a CD box which I ripped from CD (not downloaded) and which has the audio channels reversed (maybe it was done intentionally?). Ok, I confess: while it is indeed classical music, it is no orchestral music, but solo harpsichord. The trebles are on the left and the bass is on the right, i.e. like you would hear it if you stand on the other side of the harpsichord, facing the pianist (as opposed to what the pianist himself would hear). That was a very strange experience. But I tell you what: meanwhile (I'm about halfway through listening to it now) I got accustomed to it :-) Kind of depends if the player is facing you, back to you, or as would be more usual - side on. geoff |
#54
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Dick Pierce wrote: The stound of a harpsichord or piano does not come from the strings, it comes from the soundboard. The strings have far too small a radiating area and acoustically couple very inefficiently. Rather, the vibration of the strings is coupled mechanically through the bridge pines through the bridge to the soundboard and thence mechanically to the portion(s) of the soundboard that's best at radiating that particular frequency when excited from that particular point in the bridge. Interesting, I didn't know that. One of my friends has a spinet in his basement. Next time I see him I have to have a closer look. In all of the times I have played and listened live to harpsichord performance on may dozens of different instruments ranging from real historical samples to modern reproducrtions, I can't say that I have ever heard the clear left/right distinction you observe in your recordings. I could send you a sample if you want. In one piece there is a scale right at the beginning, you can clearly hear how it goes from right to left. Ciao AK |
#55
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Dick Pierce wrote: Thanks for the offer but, no thanks. I would consider such a presentation to be strange and, unless the recording was the only one around for the piece or the performance was exemplary, I'd not be interested. Well, I think many pieces of that CD box are the only recordings you will find of them. And yes, IMO the performance is outstanding, YMMV. But you can hear a sample he http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/deta...9/hnum/7600128 Track 27 (Menuet h-Moll) will show the left/right issue quite well. Or: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/deta...6/hnum/7600094 Track 6 (Fantasia a-Moll) Ciao AK |
#56
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
On 1/27/2010 1:39 PM Andrej Kluge spake thus:
Dick Pierce wrote: The stound of a harpsichord or piano does not come from the strings, it comes from the soundboard. The strings have far too small a radiating area and acoustically couple very inefficiently. Rather, the vibration of the strings is coupled mechanically through the bridge pines through the bridge to the soundboard and thence mechanically to the portion(s) of the soundboard that's best at radiating that particular frequency when excited from that particular point in the bridge. Interesting, I didn't know that. One of my friends has a spinet in his basement. Next time I see him I have to have a closer look. That's true for *all* stringed instruments (well, all "acoustic" ones at any rate). A vibrating string by itself can produce almost no audible sound. It needs some kind of diaphragm to move air. And to further complicate matters, it's not just the soundboard of the instrument that radiates sound. Depending on the instrument, other parts also participate: for instance, the back in both the guitar and violin family of instruments contributes significantly to the sound. And directionality is yet another more complex subject. At least with a violin (and undoubtedly other instruments as well), the perceived direction of sound--as well as the perceived direction depending on frequency--is not always the obvious one. There seems to be a certain amount of acoustic black magic at work betwixt sound source and listener. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
#57
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
David Nebenzahl wrote: On 1/27/2010 1:39 PM Andrej Kluge spake thus: Dick Pierce wrote: The stound of a harpsichord or piano does not come from the strings, it comes from the soundboard. Interesting, I didn't know that. One of my friends has a spinet in his basement. Next time I see him I have to have a closer look. That's true for *all* stringed instruments (well, all "acoustic" ones at any rate). A vibrating string by itself can produce almost no audible sound. It needs some kind of diaphragm to move air. I admid that I looked up "soundboard" in the dictionary only after I wrote my posting (in German: "Korpus", "Klangkörper"). I thought it is some special device in harpsichords, but of course every string instrument has it. And directionality is yet another more complex subject. At least with a violin (and undoubtedly other instruments as well), the perceived direction of sound--as well as the perceived direction depending on frequency--is not always the obvious one. Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. Thanks and Ciao AK |
#58
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Andrej Kluge wrote:
Hi, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 1/27/2010 1:39 PM Andrej Kluge spake thus: Dick Pierce wrote: The stound of a harpsichord or piano does not come from the strings, it comes from the soundboard. Interesting, I didn't know that. One of my friends has a spinet in his basement. Next time I see him I have to have a closer look. That's true for *all* stringed instruments (well, all "acoustic" ones at any rate). A vibrating string by itself can produce almost no audible sound. It needs some kind of diaphragm to move air. I admid that I looked up "soundboard" in the dictionary only after I wrote my posting (in German: "Korpus", "Klangkörper"). I thought it is some special device in harpsichords, but of course every string instrument has it. And directionality is yet another more complex subject. At least with a violin (and undoubtedly other instruments as well), the perceived direction of sound--as well as the perceived direction depending on frequency--is not always the obvious one. Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. Thanks and Ciao AK |
#59
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Andrej Kluge wrote:
Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. And from a rasonably 'audience' listening position ? geoff |
#60
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
David Nebenzahl wrote:
I dunno; take a listen to the opening track of Jimi Hendrix's "Axis: Bold as Love". Does it really matter if the whooshy sounds pan from right to left to right, or vice versa? How about a drumkit eh? - nothing said about the w i d t h of said. Huh? What on earth does that have to do with channel assignment. I didn't say anyting about the width because it doesn't have anything to do with channel assignment. Sometimes you're just *out there*, man. There is a standard setup of a drumkit, so there is a proper way to render it in stereo, just as there is a proper way to render a piano or a string quartet. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#61
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
"Andrej Kluge" wrote in message ... Well, I think many pieces of that CD box are the only recordings you will find of them. And yes, IMO the performance is outstanding, YMMV. Seems to me they have probably just panned it that way deliberately, and simply converting it to mono may be an improvement. That will provide better quality MP3's at any given bit rate as a bonus. MrT. |
#62
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
"Andrej Kluge" wrote in message ... Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. But may have been deliberately panned with frequency dependant channel splitting, at the whim of the producer. Frankly I'd just convert it to mono! MrT. |
#63
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Mr.T wrote: Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. But may have been deliberately panned with frequency dependant channel splitting, at the whim of the producer. Somehow I don't think so, as the recordings are from 1972. Did such knowledge/technology exist back then? Frankly I'd just convert it to mono! No, this doesn't sound good with headphones (IMO. Ciao AK |
#64
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Hi,
Andrej Kluge wrote: Yet in the recordings I mentioned the direction of the notes can be clearly heard. By the way, in those two samples I mentioned, the cembalo in use was a Grimaldi. I found pictures of those on the web: http://www.de.early-keyboard.com/Grimaldi.htm They seem rather long (compared to other cembali) -- I suspect the sound engineer had put one microphone at the far left side and the other on the far right side of it, and thus created this spacial distinction? Ciao AK |
#65
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
"Andrej Kluge" wrote in message ... But may have been deliberately panned with frequency dependant channel splitting, at the whim of the producer. Somehow I don't think so, as the recordings are from 1972. Did such knowledge/technology exist back then? Of course, you just use a couple of mics (or even send the same signal to two mixer channels), EQ, and pan as desired. Simple. Frankly I'd just convert it to mono! No, this doesn't sound good with headphones (IMO. Hell if you are using headphones, simply swap them to the other ears! How hard is that? Either way it's still going to sound wrong of course. MrT. |
#66
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
On 1/29/2010 5:17 AM Dick Pierce spake thus:
These instruments are very typical of 17th and 18th century Italian harpsichords. and they are actually somewhat smaller in overall size compared to other regional variants. If you were to look, for example, at some of the early- to mid-18th century German harpsichords, which are, as harpsichord go, almost gargantuan, things like the Grimaldi would look tiny by comparison. Being a harpsichord person, you might appreciate this story. (Then again, you might not.) In another lifetime, I used to play in orchestras. One time we were doing some Baroque violin concerto or other (Bach or some such), with a harpsichord next to the conductor's podium. I remember during the dress rehearsal, the solo violinist went over to the harpsichord to give the orchestra an A. He hit the key and had an annoyed look on his face. He then proceeded to hit the key several times more, each time with more force and a more annoyed look. We thought it was pretty funny. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
#67
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
Winamp allows you to swap Left/Right channels when you play (using
plugins): Options Preferences - Plug-ins - DSP/Effect Select "Nullsoft Signal Processing Studio DSP" Click "Configure active plug-in" Click "Load" button Load "justin - stereo channel swap.sps" There is also a separate stereo swapper plugin. Hope that helps, John http://www.mp3-boss.com |
#68
Posted to rec.audio.tech,alt.music.mp3
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Exchanging audio channels in MP3 files?
"Andrej Kluge" wrote in message
... Hi, Richard Crowley wrote: It seems highly doubtful that it can be done *losslessly*. Because the data for the two channels is not independent while encoded in stereo MP3 (as it would be in WAV, for example.) Well I was hoping there would be only a bit or two to be changed in the MP3 header that control the channel assignement. (like those MP3 gain changing programs where this is done without re-encoding the actual data) If not, I will have to live with it. You can look up the format in wikipedia, and more details are in technical documents. I think such an operation is do-it-yourself. Maybe there is an *MP3 mod utility* (lossless MP3 modification utility). Some such thing is for JPEGs. I am lost at how you managed to exchange stereo channels unintentionally. This is coming from a guy who has sixteen presets on my stereo processor in Nero WaveEdit. If you actually prefer violins on one side or the other, then it might do you some good to lose that polarity. I will always do my duet vocals cross-channel from my synth, now that I am routinely including synth. _______ http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Sucker.mp3 If it sounds too good to be true, then don't be a sucker. |
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