Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#161
|
|||
|
|||
George M. Middius wrote:
Gurgling gluggily, Gregipus grumbles gaily. Why do you think anybody is the least bit interested in answering your asinine questions? Quid pro quo, Georgie Porgie. Oopsie! Unless your disease has debilitated you to an extreme degree, you should be aware that I've asked my question about ten times now, and you have yet to answer. And no, you may not suck my dick. George--all this talk about getting your dick sucked--were you actually planning on having it reattached? |
#162
|
|||
|
|||
George M. Middius wrote:
Gay Gregipus minced: And no, you may not suck my dick. George--all Inability Yeah, this is effective. |
#163
|
|||
|
|||
George M. Middius wrote:
Gay Gregipus minced: And no, you may not suck my dick. George--all Inability Yeah, this is effective. |
#164
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:51:40 -0600, dave weil
wrote: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:43:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote: dave weil wrote: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote: Of course, as $81 each, they should be better. The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least when it benefits your argument. Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? |
#165
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:51:40 -0600, dave weil
wrote: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:43:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote: dave weil wrote: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote: Of course, as $81 each, they should be better. The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least when it benefits your argument. Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? |
#166
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? No, just that no matter what I say, you'll not believe it, so we're at an impass. |
#167
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? No, just that no matter what I say, you'll not believe it, so we're at an impass. |
#168
|
|||
|
|||
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:43:14 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? No, just that no matter what I say, you'll not believe it, so we're at an impass. Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. So I take that you you'll stop your comments in that regard, since you can't defend them, right? |
#169
|
|||
|
|||
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:43:14 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible. Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not even worth wasting your money on. You missed the point entirely. But what's new? BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to the other tweeters that you are commenting on. Joe, did I miss your reply to this question? No, just that no matter what I say, you'll not believe it, so we're at an impass. Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. So I take that you you'll stop your comments in that regard, since you can't defend them, right? |
#170
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. I went to the manufacturer's sites for both - graphs there make sense. The curves for those ribons are going to be a PITA to deal with considering the horrible impedance vs frequency response. I'd take a high-end silk dome tweeter anyday. Gheez - the first one that Madisound lists is a whoppping 10db down at 20Khz frmo the midrange. |
#171
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. I went to the manufacturer's sites for both - graphs there make sense. The curves for those ribons are going to be a PITA to deal with considering the horrible impedance vs frequency response. I'd take a high-end silk dome tweeter anyday. Gheez - the first one that Madisound lists is a whoppping 10db down at 20Khz frmo the midrange. |
#172
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:38:11 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. I went to the manufacturer's sites for both - graphs there make sense. The curves for those ribons are going to be a PITA to deal with considering the horrible impedance vs frequency response. Can you quantify what you mean by "horrible"? How do you come to this conclusion? I'd take a high-end silk dome tweeter anyday. Gheez - the first one that Madisound lists is a whoppping 10db down at 20Khz frmo the midrange. How does this differ from the, say, VIFA XT25TG30-04, a megabucks ring tweeter? They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. |
#173
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:38:11 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: Nice copout. I really *was* curious, since the graphs for Madisound seem to be in a different format than the others. I went to the manufacturer's sites for both - graphs there make sense. The curves for those ribons are going to be a PITA to deal with considering the horrible impedance vs frequency response. Can you quantify what you mean by "horrible"? How do you come to this conclusion? I'd take a high-end silk dome tweeter anyday. Gheez - the first one that Madisound lists is a whoppping 10db down at 20Khz frmo the midrange. How does this differ from the, say, VIFA XT25TG30-04, a megabucks ring tweeter? They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. |
#174
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. Honestly, a lot of their drivers are not very good either. I'm amazed at the cheap junk that most people pass off as quality, including some very well known manufacturers. The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. |
#175
|
|||
|
|||
dave weil wrote:
They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. Honestly, a lot of their drivers are not very good either. I'm amazed at the cheap junk that most people pass off as quality, including some very well known manufacturers. The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. |
#176
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. Honestly, a lot of their drivers are not very good either. I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you now saying that the very drivers that you claim are far better than the Silver Flutes are now not very good either? What *do* you think is a good tweeter then, other than the Hiquphon of course. I'm amazed at the cheap junk that most people pass off as quality, including some very well known manufacturers. Well damn - now it's NOBODY (other than the above) makes a good tweeter. Have I called your bluff or something? I'm sorry to be so arch about this, but I really want to know how you justify your previous comments. You didn't address my direct questions, so I wonder if maybe you were just talking to be slamming Greg, instead of addressing the actual issues. The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? |
#177
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: dave weil wrote: They don't seem to label the different curves but there are several of the curves that dip that much. The few tweeter graphs that I looked at from ScanSpeak and VIFA all seemed to have the same sort of downward tilt in the same sort of range of roughly 10dB, depending on which curve you look at. It seems to me that due to the diffeent testing methods and different graphing techniques used, it's like comparing apples with oranges. Honestly, a lot of their drivers are not very good either. I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you now saying that the very drivers that you claim are far better than the Silver Flutes are now not very good either? What *do* you think is a good tweeter then, other than the Hiquphon of course. I'm amazed at the cheap junk that most people pass off as quality, including some very well known manufacturers. Well damn - now it's NOBODY (other than the above) makes a good tweeter. Have I called your bluff or something? I'm sorry to be so arch about this, but I really want to know how you justify your previous comments. You didn't address my direct questions, so I wonder if maybe you were just talking to be slamming Greg, instead of addressing the actual issues. The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? |
#178
|
|||
|
|||
"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? People need to get off the bs that everything made in China for $3 per day (not hour) is crap. Try setting up a manufacturing operation in the US and get skilled labor for $8-12 per hour. You'll likely be dealing with different uneducated ethnic groups with severe language and reading skill deficiencies. In SD, we have Phillipinos, Hispanics, and Asians. In manufacturing, we have to have separate english classes for the Phillipinos and Hispanics. The Asians are typically far better educated. In China, they may be using uneducated labor but they have the advantage of being able to specialty train due to the low labor cost. You train a person to do one thing and do it very well. It simplifies the use of uneducated labor tremendously. Many contract manufacturers are setting up operations in China and producing far more high tech products than speakers at very good quality. People may bitch about it, but what do you think is keeping inflation so low? One other note, I can't find the reference, but I read China is now graduating more engineers than the rest of the entire world. ScottW |
#179
|
|||
|
|||
"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? People need to get off the bs that everything made in China for $3 per day (not hour) is crap. Try setting up a manufacturing operation in the US and get skilled labor for $8-12 per hour. You'll likely be dealing with different uneducated ethnic groups with severe language and reading skill deficiencies. In SD, we have Phillipinos, Hispanics, and Asians. In manufacturing, we have to have separate english classes for the Phillipinos and Hispanics. The Asians are typically far better educated. In China, they may be using uneducated labor but they have the advantage of being able to specialty train due to the low labor cost. You train a person to do one thing and do it very well. It simplifies the use of uneducated labor tremendously. Many contract manufacturers are setting up operations in China and producing far more high tech products than speakers at very good quality. People may bitch about it, but what do you think is keeping inflation so low? One other note, I can't find the reference, but I read China is now graduating more engineers than the rest of the entire world. ScottW |
#180
|
|||
|
|||
ScottW wrote:
"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? People need to get off the bs that everything made in China for $3 per day (not hour) is crap. Try setting up a manufacturing operation in the US and get skilled labor for $8-12 per hour. You'll likely be dealing with different uneducated ethnic groups with severe language and reading skill deficiencies. In SD, we have Phillipinos, Hispanics, and Asians. In manufacturing, we have to have separate english classes for the Phillipinos and Hispanics. The Asians are typically far better educated. Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. |
#181
|
|||
|
|||
ScottW wrote:
"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:59 GMT, Joseph Oberlander The litmus test IMO of when to start being suspicious is when they are outsourcing. Like Tannoy, right? Do they manufacture all of their drivers? That means China or wherever they can get something made for $3 an hour. Like Tannoy, right? Don't they source most of their drivers from low-wage countries? People need to get off the bs that everything made in China for $3 per day (not hour) is crap. Try setting up a manufacturing operation in the US and get skilled labor for $8-12 per hour. You'll likely be dealing with different uneducated ethnic groups with severe language and reading skill deficiencies. In SD, we have Phillipinos, Hispanics, and Asians. In manufacturing, we have to have separate english classes for the Phillipinos and Hispanics. The Asians are typically far better educated. Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. |
#182
|
|||
|
|||
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ink.net... Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. The point was that you still pay more and don't necessarily get more in higher product quality or productivity than in China. ScottW |
#183
|
|||
|
|||
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ink.net... Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. The point was that you still pay more and don't necessarily get more in higher product quality or productivity than in China. ScottW |
#184
|
|||
|
|||
ScottW wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ink.net... Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. The point was that you still pay more and don't necessarily get more in higher product quality or productivity than in China. There's also the political and ideological differences. I'm not in favor of re-education facilities, refusal to honor copyrights and patents, and their stealing our technology from us behind out backs. It's just as bad as it ever was, just that they have learned how to put a nice bit of makeup on it. |
#185
|
|||
|
|||
ScottW wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ink.net... Well, that's San Diego. Yeah, Los(t) Angeles is similar. Good labor can be had. THey do it all the time in Japan and Europe, and last I checked, it cost a lot more to live in there than in the middle of nowhere, U.S. I hear Las Vegas is business friendly, cheap, and has tons of labor lately. The point was that you still pay more and don't necessarily get more in higher product quality or productivity than in China. There's also the political and ideological differences. I'm not in favor of re-education facilities, refusal to honor copyrights and patents, and their stealing our technology from us behind out backs. It's just as bad as it ever was, just that they have learned how to put a nice bit of makeup on it. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Questions on basic wirjing setup | Tech | |||
Yet another DBT post | High End Audio | |||
Comments about Blind Testing | High End Audio | |||
So is that it for Jupiter Audio? | Audio Opinions | |||
Questions to Gerg Jupiter Audio | Audio Opinions |