[Chip Borton]

Hi All,

I probably should be asking this on ramps but you guys are
my go-to group.

I recently have seemingly found a new niche as a boom person
and have done several documentary style shoots with the possibility of
doing a lot more. So I am considering investing in some kit of my own.

Of course I want a 744t and Shoeps or DPA mic's but that's a
world away from me.

So I am considering a Sound Devices 302 mixer and Sennheiser MKH 416,
or maybe Rode NTG-3 mic.

I quickly found out that the shotgun mic is great outdoors but
really phasey indoors. (I have never used shotgun mics before)

I have been using an Azden 3 channel mixer and Azden shotgun mic.

My question (s) is this:

What is a recommendation for a good boom mic for indoors
or enclosed areas?

Are the MKH416/Rode NTG-3 good choices for outdoors?
I am in New Mexico (its 100 degrees right now and no humidity)

I have a budget of 3500$ for everything. (mixer/mics/pole/accessories)

Any recommendations on any or all of the kit are welcome.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton wrote:
I quickly found out that the shotgun mic is great outdoors but
really phasey indoors. (I have never used shotgun mics before)

That's how it works. It removes correlated stuff in the far field, but
it doesn't remove uncorrelated stuff like the room reverb which is the
main thing you want to get rid of.

I have been using an Azden 3 channel mixer and Azden shotgun mic.

My question (s) is this:

What is a recommendation for a good boom mic for indoors
or enclosed areas?

If you cannot afford the Schoeps, try the Audio Technica AT 4053, which
is a usable, directional hypercardioid. In a pinch, the Oktava 012 with
the hypercardioid capsule is usable, but the pattern is really much wider
than that of the 4053.

Are the MKH416/Rode NTG-3 good choices for outdoors?

The MKH416 will sound like an MKH416. This can be a good thing or a bad
thing. Post guys will recognize it and be happy.

I have a budget of 3500$ for everything. (mixer/mics/pole/accessories)

Spend all your money on a used Schoeps colette and learn to work with a
cheap heavy boom for a while. Next step, upgrade the boom.

A hypercardioid will be usable outside, though it might be noisier than
the shotgun. If you have to spend all your money on one good mike, get
the hyper and skip the shotgun.

Don't forget a couple lav mikes.

Any recommendations on any or all of the kit are welcome.

Shure FP33 is not bad, available cheaply used. FP32 is a pain in the neck
but probably a step up from the Azden, and around $400 used.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:46:11 -0400, Chip Borton wrote
(in article ):

Hi All,

I probably should be asking this on ramps but you guys are
my go-to group.

I recently have seemingly found a new niche as a boom person
and have done several documentary style shoots with the possibility of
doing a lot more. So I am considering investing in some kit of my own.

Of course I want a 744t and Shoeps or DPA mic's but that's a
world away from me.

So I am considering a Sound Devices 302 mixer and Sennheiser MKH 416,
or maybe Rode NTG-3 mic.

I quickly found out that the shotgun mic is great outdoors but
really phasey indoors. (I have never used shotgun mics before)

I have been using an Azden 3 channel mixer and Azden shotgun mic.

Azden is crap.

My question (s) is this:

What is a recommendation for a good boom mic for indoors
or enclosed areas?

An AT4053b or Audix SCX-1 hc

Are the MKH416/Rode NTG-3 good choices for outdoors?
I am in New Mexico (its 100 degrees right now and no humidity)

yes the NTG-3 has a slightly wider pattern than the MKH 416

I have a budget of 3500$ for everything. (mixer/mics/pole/accessories)

your budget is not my concern.

Any recommendations on any or all of the kit are welcome.

Sound Devices 302.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Chip Borton]

On 6/28/2011 5:39 AM, Ty Ford wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:46:11 -0400, Chip Borton wrote

I have been using an Azden 3 channel mixer and Azden shotgun mic.

Azden is crap.

Yes, that was apparent as soon as I turned on the power switch.


your budget is not my concern.

Sound Devices 302.


Thank you Scott and Ty,

I went with a combo of both your suggestions.
I went with the 302 and MKH416 because as you pointed
out, that's what people expect.
Also I went for the AT 4053b.

At a later date if I get more jobs to warrant the expense,
I will get a new Collette. I really hesitate to buy used,
especially an expensive mic. Maybe the lav's will need to
come first though.

I must admit that I am confused by your statement Ty about
budget not being a concern. Usually when someone asks the
standard question "whats the best mic" etc. without giving
a use or budget they get admonished.

Anyways, thank you both. I appreciate it.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton wrote:

I went with a combo of both your suggestions.
I went with the 302 and MKH416 because as you pointed
out, that's what people expect.
Also I went for the AT 4053b.

This is a good combination and these are all things that will hold their
value when you decide to upgrade them.

At a later date if I get more jobs to warrant the expense,
I will get a new Collette. I really hesitate to buy used,
especially an expensive mic. Maybe the lav's will need to
come first though.

Good lavs can be found cheap on the used market. Try the older, larger
Countryman EMWs. They are not fashionable but they sound decent. The
Isomax II is not sold as a lav mike any more but the omni versions make
good ones.

I wouldn't worry about buying used, in part because when you buy an
expensive mike, you are usually buying from a company that has good
support. (Okay, Countryman has insanely expensive support and don't
give out service information so others can fix their products, but they
are kind of an exception). Get a thirty-year-old beat-up 416 and it'll
be just as good as a new one, and if it DOES break, Sennheiser will fix it
overnight for a reasonable fee. Same is true of the Schoeps.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chip Borton wrote:

I went with a combo of both your suggestions.
I went with the 302 and MKH416 because as you pointed
out, that's what people expect.
Also I went for the AT 4053b.

This is a good combination and these are all things that will hold their
value when you decide to upgrade them.

Oh, also get the Olsen Pro Audio wind screens for the 416 and the 4053b.
They aren't as good as the Rycotes but they are a factor of twenty cheaper
and they aren't bad at all.

The lighter the boom, the better your back will feel at the end of the day,
also.
--scott
(who makes his wife boom for him sometimes since she has way better
upper body strength)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:07:59 -0400, Chip Borton wrote
(in article ):

I must admit that I am confused by your statement Ty about budget not being a

concern. Usually when someone asks the standard question "whats the best mic"

etc. without giving a use or budget they get admonished.

Anyways, thank you both. I appreciate it.

Chip,

Not harm intended, but this forum and others get a huge number of, "I want
the best but only have (way less than that required).

Let's see. ADMONISH: 1. Warn or reprimand someone firmly.
2. Advise or urge (someone) earnestly.

I guess #2.

Earnestly Yours,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Chip Borton]

On 6/29/2011 9:33 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In ,
Scott wrote:
Chip wrote:

I went with a combo of both your suggestions.
I went with the 302 and MKH416 because as you pointed
out, that's what people expect.
Also I went for the AT 4053b.

Well, I received my kit yesterday and the 302 and MKH416
are working just fine. As someone mentioned , the 416 is not
going to set the world on fire, but it works as advertised.
Quiet, and sounds decent.

The 302 is quiet and very nice.

The AT 4053b is a different matter, I think I got a dud!
It came in obviously new packaging, looking pristine but
when I plug it it It is incredibly noisy with a big hissy
type noise. The actual sound you are trying to record
comes in very weak, it also seems to have an internment
issue, every once in a while it explodes with signal even
with very gentle handling.
I have tried removing the capsule and making sure it is
clean and the connection is good. I don't know if it is
the capsule or the body that is bad.

Just thought I would check with you guys for possible
operator error or quick fix before I send it back as
defective.



This is a good combination and these are all things that will hold their
value when you decide to upgrade them.

Oh, also get the Olsen Pro Audio wind screens for the 416 and the 4053b.
They aren't as good as the Rycotes but they are a factor of twenty cheaper
and they aren't bad at all.

The lighter the boom, the better your back will feel at the end of the day,
also.
--scott
(who makes his wife boom for him sometimes since she has way better
upper body strength)

I had already ordered a Rycote fuzzy when I saw this post but I will
keep Olsen in mind. Thank you.

I also went with a more low end graphite boom, it is pretty light.
It is about 9.5 feet extended. Some further reading tells me that
you guys like much longer but for now I am fine with it.
Also don't forget the Petrol bag and Zoom H4N and I think I am ready to
rumble.

Well, after I take care of the 4053b issue anyways ...

This is the one I ordered from B&H.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html


Thanks,
Chip Borton

[Ty Ford]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:57:02 -0400, Chip Borton wrote
(in article ):

Well, after I take care of the 4053b issue anyways ...

This is the one I ordered from B&H.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/642499-
REG/Audio_Technica_AT4053B_AT4053
b_Hypercardioid_Condenser_Microphone.html

Yes, that would be a bad mic.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Chip Borton]

On 7/6/2011 7:54 AM, Ty Ford wrote:

Yes, that would be a bad mic.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thank you, mic is being RMA'd.
Will let you guys know how it turns out.

Man, my phone is on fire, who would have thunk it!
Jobs coming in by the hour.

Chip

[[email protected]]

How about the boom itself? A friend of mine is using a painters pole,
and he is always worrying about it creaking.

Nils

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
How about the boom itself? A friend of mine is using a painters pole,
and he is always worrying about it creaking.

Spend the money, get a real boom. And not one from a famous tripod
manufacturer that is a reworked tripod mechanism in disguise.

The painter's pole will kill your back.

A real boom is expensive but it will also allow you to work longer
hours without pain or injury.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chip Borton]

On 7/13/2011 6:08 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
get a real boom. And not one from a famous tripod
manufacturer that is a reworked tripod mechanism in disguise.

I hope that is not K-Tek you are referring to, I got an Avalon
series graphite with internal cabling. It is light and it
seems to do the job, but I will see how long it holds up.

[Chip Borton]

On 7/6/2011 3:38 PM, Chip Borton wrote:
On 7/6/2011 7:54 AM, Ty Ford wrote:

Yes, that would be a bad mic.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thank you, mic is being RMA'd.
Will let you guys know how it turns out.



Well, I received my replacement AT 4053b yesterday
and it too is defective. I looks like this one had
been sent back before too, it was missing some of
the packaging and was put together as if it had been used.

Same problem, horrible hiss, low output and weird plosive
problem.

I talked to one of the film guys here and he has one but
says he doesn't take it out anymore as he has had similar
problems with it.

I also asked him about the Collette and he said that while
the mic is good, there was issues with the connections on
it and said it was a little quirky.

Still on the hunt for a good indoor boom-able mic for film
and ENG in the 600-1000 dollar range.

Any other suggestions? I have been googling but there is so
much out there that I cant seem to narrow it down.

[Dieter Michel]

Chip,

Still on the hunt for a good indoor boom-able mic for film
and ENG in the 600-1000 dollar range.

you could check MBHO (german manufacturer). They are not as
well known as Neumann or Schoeps, but also of high quality.

You could use the KA500HN hypercardioid capsule together
with the MBP603A preamp. The combination retails here in
Germany for a net price equivalent to US$735 (excl. shipping).

Contact info for US sales can be found at http://www.mbho.de/t3.htm

They should also be able to locate a dealer for you.

Best regards

Dieter Michel

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton wrote:

Well, I received my replacement AT 4053b yesterday
and it too is defective. I looks like this one had
been sent back before too, it was missing some of
the packaging and was put together as if it had been used.

Same problem, horrible hiss, low output and weird plosive
problem.

Weird, I have never seen this. I'd call B&H.

I talked to one of the film guys here and he has one but
says he doesn't take it out anymore as he has had similar
problems with it.

Borrow his for a weekend and give it a try.

I also asked him about the Collette and he said that while
the mic is good, there was issues with the connections on
it and said it was a little quirky.

Life is like that. You make stuff small and light, it becomes a bit
delicate. It's a great mike, it's not cheap.

Still on the hunt for a good indoor boom-able mic for film
and ENG in the 600-1000 dollar range.

Any other suggestions? I have been googling but there is so
much out there that I cant seem to narrow it down.

What else is there? The Oktava, as I'd said, was wide but okay.
I'd tend to go with a used Collette or the MKH-50. The MKH-50 is
not as tight as the Schoeps, but it's more reliable in high humidity.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:05:56 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

Chip Borton wrote:

Well, I received my replacement AT 4053b yesterday
and it too is defective. I looks like this one had
been sent back before too, it was missing some of
the packaging and was put together as if it had been used.

Same problem, horrible hiss, low output and weird plosive
problem.

Weird, I have never seen this. I'd call B&H.

I talked to one of the film guys here and he has one but
says he doesn't take it out anymore as he has had similar
problems with it.

Borrow his for a weekend and give it a try.

I also asked him about the Collette and he said that while
the mic is good, there was issues with the connections on
it and said it was a little quirky.

Life is like that. You make stuff small and light, it becomes a bit
delicate. It's a great mike, it's not cheap.

Still on the hunt for a good indoor boom-able mic for film
and ENG in the 600-1000 dollar range.

Any other suggestions? I have been googling but there is so
much out there that I cant seem to narrow it down.

What else is there? The Oktava, as I'd said, was wide but okay.
I'd tend to go with a used Collette or the MKH-50. The MKH-50 is
not as tight as the Schoeps, but it's more reliable in high humidity.
--scott


Well there's also the Audix SCX-1hc, but don't give up on the AT yet.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Ty Ford wrote:

Well there's also the Audix SCX-1hc, but don't give up on the AT yet.

A friend of mine has a pair of "53's" for classical "secondary pair" use,
and is very happy with them.

Ty Ford

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Chip Borton]

On 7/19/2011 7:00 PM, Ty Ford wrote:

Well there's also the Audix SCX-1hc, but don't give up on the AT yet.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I just got the second replacement AT4053b from B&H and this one
seems to be behaving normally. I'll post on how it works out in
the field soon. I may get the MKH50 as well.

Thanks,
Chip Borton

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton wrote:
On 7/19/2011 7:00 PM, Ty Ford wrote:

Well there's also the Audix SCX-1hc, but don't give up on the AT yet.

I was not all that happy with the SCX-1hc, it seemed awfully wide and
kind of weird-sounding on the edges.

I just got the second replacement AT4053b from B&H and this one
seems to be behaving normally. I'll post on how it works out in
the field soon. I may get the MKH50 as well.

Try it. You'll find the MKH50 is quieter. It's also more money. Life
is like that.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."