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  #42   Report Post  
Johnston West
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Terry King wrote in message

so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........

The 654 and 666 had XLR's; I have a 654 in my hand.

I have never seen a microphone with a built-in-the-case UA connector.
************************************************** ********************

Update on that! Ray Rayburn has showed me four!! so, I am corrected on
that, although we agree the 654 has XLR. Take a look at:
http://www.k-bay106.com/e-v_667.jpg
for a EV 667 AND the EV preamp, all with UA connectors...


Yup, that's a UA series "D" connector, just as sure as it's shape.

J_West
  #43   Report Post  
Richard Crowley
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.


The wire colors of traditional thermocouples indicate which
type they are (J, K, etc.) and coincidentally also the "polarity".
They have never followed the electronics tradition of black=
negative, red=positive.


  #44   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Since there isn't a standard for speaker connections, I don't know
that there's ever been a convention for polarity vs. color or even
number if the terminals are numbered. Seems to me that I've heard
that the terminal that has the positive voltage on it when the speaker
cone moves out (toward the listener) is defined as positive. If you
put a microphone in front of a speaker with the cone moving in that
direction, it should make pin 2 go positive with respect to pin 3.


This is the consensus -- except when the drivers don't have the same polarity.
In a three-way system, you'd go with the midrange. In a two-way system, it would
probably be the woofer, as the woofer (in such systems) generally caries most
(or all) of the midrange.

  #46   Report Post  
Dave Johnson
 
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Terry King wrote:



Jeez, who the heck wanted to know about this?? Sorry...


(Raised hand)
  #47   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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In article writes:

That's pretty ****ed up right there. So, both Americans and Europeans
were inconsistent between microphones and everything else?


Yes, because back in those days, unless you had two mics in a stereo
pair, you couldn't hear a difference. There just wasn't that much
resolution, reproduction accuracy, and there weren't that many
microphones or channels. It was as likely that someone had a miswired
cable as an oddball microphone, so you just listened to what you set
up and if something sounded like it was out of polarity, you changed
it.

No big deal then, no big deal now other than that people don't expect
that there might be problems that they need to fix before moving on.
Wiring polarity is something that can, and should be consistent. The
industry finally figured that out and now, for the most part, it is.

Generally today when we get a question about polarity, it's related to
mixing balanced and unbalanced connections, or about interfacing old
equipment with new.

This means
that if any European or US company built stand-alone mic preamps back
then, "correct" wiring would dictate an inversion between input and
output?


I'm not sure if any company "back then" built an outboard mic preamp,
but things like Ampex 350 recorders, widely used in broadcast and
recording studios, had microphone inputs (usually one, since most were
mono). The same polarity that went in came out. Now there was the
issue of polarity on tape, but that's something else. This is
something better drawn out on paper if you want to figure out what
might have been what.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #48   Report Post  
ChuxGarage
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

So, both Americans and Europeans
were inconsistent between microphones and everything else



Back in the 1970's I attended the AES Convention where the membership voted to
adopt the standard of "Pin 2 Hot." This was done largely at the request of the
groups UK and European members.

Up until this point, most American gear was wired Pin 3 hot. This change of
convention to the new standard was very inconvenient, but viewed by most in the
US as something we simply had to do. Or so we thought. Shortly after the new
convention was adopted, many UK manufacturers, Soundcraft and Midas among
others, started delivering consoles with "Pin 3 Hot." I've owned several of
them. What possessed them to switch is still a mystery to me. Some were even
wired with balanced inputs, pin two positive, but outputs unbalanced pin 3 hot.
The question of whether pin two was connected to ground or just left floating,
connected to nothing at all was also un-standardized. Some were, some weren't.
You see, in those days it was fairly common to have balanced inputs and
unbalanced outputs via an XLR. This made for many years of confusion, and
the need to carry around lots of polarity reversing adapters am "magic" adapter
cables to make things work.

You younger guys take a lot for granted these days when you buy a workable
mixer for well under $500, and everything is more or less like it should be.
It wasn't always the case.

Chuck



  #49   Report Post  
rich rookie
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- (un) Official Answer


"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
m...
Dave Turner wrote:

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Subject: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
From: Technical Query
To: '"


Hello David

As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had

an
original meaning, however we have no info here on it.

regards

John Embleton
Technical Support
ITT Industries,
Cannon Connector Division,
Basingstoke.
UK


So that's the official answer.


Official? It's not even an answer. He might just as well have said,
"Who cares?" or "None of your damn business."

Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which

gives

Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
contradict it. Not that it really matters.

What does "NC3FD" stand for?

ulysses


I just happend across this, this morning. From
http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

Richard


At one time Cannon (now ITT Cannon) made a large circular connector series
that was popular for microphones called the P series. Mics used the 3 pin P3
version. Some loudspeakers use the P4 or P8 versions of this connector to
this day.

In an attempt to make a smaller connector for the microphone market Cannon
came out with the UA series. These were "D" shaped instead of circular and
were used on such mics as the Electro-Voice 666, 666R, and 655C.

There was a desire for a smaller yet connector. Someone pointed out the
small circular Cannon X series. The problem with this was it had no latch.
Cannon rearranged the pins and added a latch, and the XL (X series with
Latch) was born. This is the connector others such as Switchcraft and later
Neutrik have copied.

Later Cannon modified the female end only to put the contacts in a Resilient
Rubber compound. They called this new version the XLR series. No other
company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!



  #50   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- (un) Official Answer

Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?


In article , rich rookie
wrote:

"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
m...
Dave Turner wrote:

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Subject: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
From: Technical Query
To: '"


Hello David

As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had

an
original meaning, however we have no info here on it.

regards

John Embleton
Technical Support
ITT Industries,
Cannon Connector Division,
Basingstoke.
UK


So that's the official answer.


Official? It's not even an answer. He might just as well have said,
"Who cares?" or "None of your damn business."

Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which

gives

Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
contradict it. Not that it really matters.

What does "NC3FD" stand for?

ulysses


I just happend across this, this morning. From
http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

Richard


At one time Cannon (now ITT Cannon) made a large circular connector series
that was popular for microphones called the P series. Mics used the 3 pin P3
version. Some loudspeakers use the P4 or P8 versions of this connector to
this day.

In an attempt to make a smaller connector for the microphone market Cannon
came out with the UA series. These were "D" shaped instead of circular and
were used on such mics as the Electro-Voice 666, 666R, and 655C.

There was a desire for a smaller yet connector. Someone pointed out the
small circular Cannon X series. The problem with this was it had no latch.
Cannon rearranged the pins and added a latch, and the XL (X series with
Latch) was born. This is the connector others such as Switchcraft and later
Neutrik have copied.

Later Cannon modified the female end only to put the contacts in a Resilient
Rubber compound. They called this new version the XLR series. No other
company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!





  #51   Report Post  
rich rookie
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- (un) Official Answer

I'm still there.



"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
m...
Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?



  #52   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- (un) Official Answer

I can see that.


In article , rich rookie
wrote:

I'm still there.



"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
m...
Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?



  #53   Report Post  
T. Day
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Did anyone actually anwer the original question?


  #54   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

There were lots of answers, but none seemed to be (as Zaphod Beeblebrox would
say) "definitively definitive."

Did anyone actually anwer the original question?


  #55   Report Post  
Geoff Wood
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- (un) Official Answer


"rich rookie" wrote in message news:yN6vb.7326

company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!



Naaa, they leeft the R on, because people looking for a *small* connector
would be put off by XL !

geoff




  #57   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.


Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?


But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and isn't.
  #58   Report Post  
Geoff Wood
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Did anyone actually anwer the original question?


Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.


Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?


But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and

isn't.

And the 'NE' before '5534' definitely is .


geoff


  #61   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.

But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
one with a flexible insert.

  #62   Report Post  
Dave Johnson
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Richard Crowley wrote:

The wire colors of traditional thermocouples indicate which
type they are (J, K, etc.) and coincidentally also the "polarity".
They have never followed the electronics tradition of black=
negative, red=positive.


Depends on what country the thermocouples are from.
http://www.omega.com/techref/thermcolorcodes.html

I had to deal with these in a multinational factory--parts from
different parts of Europe, Japan, USA, and a mix of mostly K and J, and
nothing labeled.
  #63   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.


But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
one with a flexible insert.


I bet they weren't really XLRs at all, but A3Ms or something.

It's been a long time since I have seen anyone else using the Cannon connectors,
although Newark still stocks them and I like them a lot.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #65   Report Post  
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Pooh Bear wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
original meaning, however we have no info here on it.


That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).


I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.
Cable gland is screwed on.
R for rubber sounds plausible.


Plausible, but far from certain. What is known is that XLR was a
Cannon (before ITT) part number. I've heard people say that LR
may have stood for "long reach" too, which is also plausible,
but unestablished. Usually, the only way you'd ever find out
what it "meant" would be to get the skinny from some old timer
in the Cannon engineering department.

Typically, part names/numbers come from two sources. One is
the engineering department where they are given names just
for project/ID purposes. Numbers often come from the numbering
of projects, such as IC development 709 etc. Names usually
make sense at some level IF one knows the thinking at the time.
For example it COULD have been "Experimental, Low Impedance,
Rubber Insert connector project" Which thence got shortened
to XLR. (X is a common letter used to mean experimental).
BUT as I said ONLY an old-timer at Cannon would know for sure.
The letters could just as easily have been something else.
Maybe even referring to internal names, departments etc.,
they had at Cannon.

The Second place part names come from is the marketing dept.
In such a case, the name would be choosen for "hype" Hence
the "X"...you know like the X-1 rocket ship etc.! And the "LR"
could be anything made up just so as to sound cool and not
create confusion with other parts (either in house or competitor).

As for the "true" story, only an engineer who was there
at the time could say for sure. I'm old enough to have seen
XLR as the cannon part number, but I never worked at Cannon
and have no inside info as to the reasons for the name.

Benj
(Who in those days preferred Amphenol connectors which were
considerably cheaper than Cannon and worked as well, IMHO)

--
Due to SPAM innundation above address is turned off!


  #67   Report Post  
Bob Olhsson
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

In article , wrote:


As for the "true" story, only an engineer who was there
at the time could say for sure.


The only thing I know is that the letter "R" stood for "resilient
socket insulator" which differentiated it from the older phenolic
insulated "XL" model.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
  #68   Report Post  
Richard Crowley
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in ...
The only thing I know is that the letter "R" stood for "resilient
socket insulator" which differentiated it from the older phenolic
insulated "XL" model.


They probably used "R" for "rubber", but the marketing gerbs
changed it to "resilient" to make it sound more refined. :-)


  #71   Report Post  
John Deans
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

I cant remember where but I once read that XLR meant "extra low resistance"
the connector was originally designed for instrumentation work before being
taken up by the audio industry originally made by ITT cannon hence they
where called cannons when I started in the audio world in the late seventies
and where available in 2 to 8 way versions

John Deans

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1069625531k@trad...

In article writes:

Plausible, but far from certain. What is known is that XLR was a
Cannon (before ITT) part number. I've heard people say that LR
may have stood for "long reach" too, which is also plausible,
but unestablished. Usually, the only way you'd ever find out
what it "meant" would be to get the skinny from some old timer
in the Cannon engineering department.


Who really cares? It's a part number and it doesn't have to mean
anything, and probably doesn't, really.

We have:
LA-2 (Leveling Amplifier)
RNC 1773 (Really Nice Compressor and the year McQ was born - not
really, but I forget the meaning of 1773, but it does have a
meaning)
3630 (Address of the Alesis factory at the time)
AG-440 (Audio General)

I suppose that XLR could stand for something, but I imagine that if it
actually did, someone would know. This is a pretty historic part
number.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo



  #73   Report Post  
normanstrong
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.
Most answers look for what the letters could stand for rather than how
they originated. I'm only interested in what inspired the choice in
the first place, and that is not always easy to determine.

The meaning of XLR may never be known, unless Cannon was thoughtful
about documenting it; we may have to settle for a plausible
explanation and hope for the best. If the designer of the connector
is still alive, he might be able to help.

In the case of DVD, we're fortunate. Most of us were around when the
acronym was invented and know the history. DVD stands for "Digital
Video Disc." Digital Versatile Disc was simply a revision applied
when the disc began to be used for other purposes. I suspect that
most definitions of XLR fall into the same category (as do the choices
for BNC.)

We may never know for sure.

Norm Strong


  #74   Report Post  
Jay Kadis
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

e(X)aggerated (L)ong-term (R)eliability

I have a pair of AKG C460s with unreliable XLR connections, leading to phantom
power-introduced noise if the cables are moved. They're about 10 years old and
got a lot of use, but it seems the male XLR pins on the mics are worn enough to
compromise the contact quality. New female XLRs on the cables still don't make
solid connection.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x
  #75   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Geoff Wood -nospam wrote:

But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and

isn't.

And the 'NE' before '5534' definitely is .


Are you going to tell me it's supposed to stand for "NEve"?

ulysses


  #77   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

My recollection was that it was the other way around. The original
name was Digital Versatile Disk, but since the primary application
(for the masses) was for video, people who never knew otherwise
figured that it stood for Digital Video Disk, and there you are.


Nope. V was originally Video. It was changed to Versatile when the ROM potential
became apparent.

  #80   Report Post  
ChuxGarage
 
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Default What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

Actually, I'm told that BNC stands for "Bayonet N Connector." If you inspect
an "N" connector, you will see that the inside closely resembles a BNC but it
has a huge external screw on ring to secure it. The BNC uses a much smaller
bayonet ring to secure it.

The large housing of the N connector makes it suitable for use with large
cables like 5/8" antenna transmission line. The much smaller BNC is limited to
smaller cables like RG-59, which makes it a great choice for video.

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