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Mark Oppat Mark Oppat is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

My Numark TT-1 seems to have a problem... the tone arm skates to the outer
edge with the slightest record flaw... so it seems the anti-skate function
has locked "full on". Anyone here have any experience with this turntable
and the anti-skate mechanism??? I am running a Stanton 500 with fairly new
stylus.

Mark Oppat



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Alan Rutlidge Alan Rutlidge is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem


"Mark Oppat" wrote in message
. ..
My Numark TT-1 seems to have a problem... the tone arm skates to the outer
edge with the slightest record flaw... so it seems the anti-skate function
has locked "full on". Anyone here have any experience with this
turntable
and the anti-skate mechanism??? I am running a Stanton 500 with fairly
new
stylus.

Mark Oppat


Mark,

Simplified approach taken here.
Check to see if the anti-skate is set to minimum (zero) initially. Check
your handbook for the correct setting.
Check the tracking weight of your cartridge is correct. 3 - 5g should be
correct for this cartridge.
Play a good record, and look at the front of the cartridge. The stylus
shank (cantilever) should appear to be vertical.
If the stylus tip is leaning (even slightly) towards the centre of the
record you have too much anti-skate force.
If adjusting the anti-skate control and it appears to be doing nothing, then
you will need to take the bottom off the T/T and check to make sure the
anti-skate mechanism isn't damaged or fouled. On this type of T/T the
anti-skate is affected by a small copper or brass spring connecting the
anti-skate control to a small lever on the tone arm mechanism. In the zero
setting the spring should not apply any force to the lever. At max. setting
you should observe a noticeable force which causes the tone arm to want to
swing outwards towards the outer edge of the record. Min. setting should
have no effect. Anti-skate becomes more effective as the tonearm approaches
the centre (run off groove) of the record).

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADJUST THE SPRING BY STRETCHING IT TO REDUCE THE TENSION.

Hope this helps. If you can't resolve it yourself, I suggest you take it to
a Numark service centre for repair.

Cheers,
Alan



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Chris Hornbeck Chris Hornbeck is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:31:32 -0400, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

My Numark TT-1 seems to have a problem... the tone arm skates to the outer
edge with the slightest record flaw... so it seems the anti-skate function
has locked "full on". Anyone here have any experience with this turntable
and the anti-skate mechanism??? I am running a Stanton 500 with fairly new
stylus.


Tone arm anti-skate really has nothing to do with "skating".
It's intended to balance the incredibly high forces that a
phono stylus exerts on the groove walls.

As the stylus is dragged down the groove, it is pulled
against by the groove in a direction perpendicular to
travel. In fixed pivot tonearms this force vector is
offset from the actual pivot point; the resulting vector
force is the "skating force" to be compensated for.
So, whole different dealio.


First, second, and third: which Stanton 500 (there are
gazillions of different styli) are you using, at what
tracking force, and how do you know what the tracking
force is?

If you have trouble answering these questions, don't
be shy. There're lots of us geezers here with plenty of
time to help you work through this. It ain't rocket
surgery.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau
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Mark Oppat Mark Oppat is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

Thanks Chris.
I dont know what stylus is in my Stanton 500, but its probably eliptical. I
didnt buy it for DJ use or anything. I did buy a separate 78 stylus for it
too, since thats why I bought the Numark TT-1.

Anyways, I was tracking this at 2 grams. I balanced the arm at 0, then used
the counterweight to set it to 2 grams.
Now, if I go back to 0 (balanced), and move the arm in, I can feel and see
how much anti-skate force is there... and, it doesnt vary when I change it
from 0 to max on the anti-skate dial. So, that function is broken it seems
and before I dig in, I was hoping someone here has worked on the Numark TT-1
before me.

anyone???

Mark Oppat


"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:31:32 -0400, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

My Numark TT-1 seems to have a problem... the tone arm skates to the

outer
edge with the slightest record flaw... so it seems the anti-skate

function
has locked "full on". Anyone here have any experience with this

turntable
and the anti-skate mechanism??? I am running a Stanton 500 with fairly

new
stylus.


Tone arm anti-skate really has nothing to do with "skating".
It's intended to balance the incredibly high forces that a
phono stylus exerts on the groove walls.

As the stylus is dragged down the groove, it is pulled
against by the groove in a direction perpendicular to
travel. In fixed pivot tonearms this force vector is
offset from the actual pivot point; the resulting vector
force is the "skating force" to be compensated for.
So, whole different dealio.


First, second, and third: which Stanton 500 (there are
gazillions of different styli) are you using, at what
tracking force, and how do you know what the tracking
force is?

If you have trouble answering these questions, don't
be shy. There're lots of us geezers here with plenty of
time to help you work through this. It ain't rocket
surgery.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau




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Chris Hornbeck Chris Hornbeck is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:41:56 -0400, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

Anyways, I was tracking this at 2 grams. I balanced the arm at 0, then used
the counterweight to set it to 2 grams.
Now, if I go back to 0 (balanced), and move the arm in, I can feel and see
how much anti-skate force is there... and, it doesnt vary when I change it
from 0 to max on the anti-skate dial. So, that function is broken it seems
and before I dig in, I was hoping someone here has worked on the Numark TT-1
before me.


Excellent. The anti-skating force (called "bias" in England;
much better) is typically chosen to be roughly 12% of
tracking force. Measuring forces this small is possible
by observing deflection of very small spring wire or
multiple hairs, etc.

I still don't think that this is your problem. The stylus
would first have to leave the groove, so insufficient
tracking force is the first place to look.

DJ turntables tend to come supplied with DJ styli,
intended for much higher tracking forces. Determining
which stylus you have is, I'd bet, your next step.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau


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Alan Rutlidge Alan Rutlidge is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem


"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:41:56 -0400, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

Anyways, I was tracking this at 2 grams. I balanced the arm at 0, then
used
the counterweight to set it to 2 grams.
Now, if I go back to 0 (balanced), and move the arm in, I can feel and see
how much anti-skate force is there... and, it doesnt vary when I change it
from 0 to max on the anti-skate dial. So, that function is broken it
seems
and before I dig in, I was hoping someone here has worked on the Numark
TT-1
before me.


Excellent. The anti-skating force (called "bias" in England;
much better) is typically chosen to be roughly 12% of
tracking force. Measuring forces this small is possible
by observing deflection of very small spring wire or
multiple hairs, etc.

I still don't think that this is your problem. The stylus
would first have to leave the groove, so insufficient
tracking force is the first place to look.


That's what I suggested to Mark two days ago.
The Stanton 500 has a recommended tracking force of 2 to 5 grams.
Considering the quality of the tonearm on the Numark isn't the best I think
I suggested to Mark to try setting the tracking at 3 - 5 grams, which should
give reliable tracking with the Stanton.

BTW, the standard stylus fitted to the Stanton 500 is a 0.7mil spherical.

Cheers,
Alan


DJ turntables tend to come supplied with DJ styli,
intended for much higher tracking forces. Determining
which stylus you have is, I'd bet, your next step.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau



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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0800, "Alan Rutlidge"
wrote:

That's what I suggested to Mark two days ago.


Excellent post. All good advice.


The Stanton 500 has a recommended tracking force of 2 to 5 grams.
Considering the quality of the tonearm on the Numark isn't the best I think
I suggested to Mark to try setting the tracking at 3 - 5 grams, which should
give reliable tracking with the Stanton.


In the States, these old parties have had a more than
thirty year run, with an amazing variety of styli available,
including 1.5 gram hifi and a very good assortment of large
groove stuff. Still, I suspect that you're going to
turn out be be right about this particular stylus.

Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau
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Mark Oppat Mark Oppat is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

so basically you guys are saying increase the tracking force. OK, will do.
But, why does the anti-skate control not affect the amount of force I see
and feel pulling the arm outwards? Should not the arm stand still when
balanced and the A-S is set to zero as well?

Instead, it flys to the outer edge (remember, the arm is balancing in air
above the platter for this test). If I set the A-S to max, it still has the
same force.

Mark Oppat


"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0800, "Alan Rutlidge"
wrote:

That's what I suggested to Mark two days ago.


Excellent post. All good advice.


The Stanton 500 has a recommended tracking force of 2 to 5 grams.
Considering the quality of the tonearm on the Numark isn't the best I

think
I suggested to Mark to try setting the tracking at 3 - 5 grams, which

should
give reliable tracking with the Stanton.


In the States, these old parties have had a more than
thirty year run, with an amazing variety of styli available,
including 1.5 gram hifi and a very good assortment of large
groove stuff. Still, I suspect that you're going to
turn out be be right about this particular stylus.

Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau




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Chris Hornbeck Chris Hornbeck is offline
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Default Numark TT-1 anti-skate problem

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:50:27 -0400, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

so basically you guys are saying increase the tracking force. OK, will do.
But, why does the anti-skate control not affect the amount of force I see
and feel pulling the arm outwards? Should not the arm stand still when
balanced and the A-S is set to zero as well?

Instead, it flys to the outer edge (remember, the arm is balancing in air
above the platter for this test). If I set the A-S to max, it still has the
same force.


Excellent point and perfectly expressed. I can only hope
to respond less convincingly, but maybe usefully.

We're really just too big to be able to feel the difference
between 1/4 and 1/2 gram of force. It's tough enough to
measure ((although you can do it with homemade gear, deflected
small springs calibrated by known weights (known by measuring
their dimensions and working from published densities) ))
but it's outside our realm of personal experience.

EVERYTHING about playing (or worse, recording) vinyl records
is outside our ordinary world experience. In playback, contact
pressures are in the tons per square inch. Temperatures in
the vinyl face rise, or a very brief time, to 700 to 900 F.
Deformations, liquifications, and solidifications, Oh My!

If the tonearm's tracking force is zero'd, pretty much any
(much smaller) bias force will cause it to move pretty much
the same to our eyeball perception. If in doubt, measure.


My very strong recommendation, if you want to use this for
playing valued records, is to buy the best stylus you can.

And, anything over about two grams with point-contact face
geometry exceeds the Young's modulus, where plastic deformation
ain't so plastic.

But that's just me. All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau
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