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John Smith[_2_] John Smith[_2_] is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Mar 18, 11:16 am, John Smith wrote:
Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


How much money do you want to spend. Name a figure. "As little as
possible as long as it doesn't compromise my sound quality" doesn't
count.


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

In article , John Smith wrote:
Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


Sennheiser MKH-20 is pretty much the standard one everybody uses. Quieter
than the Schoeps and it fares better in high humidity environments.

The B&K lab mike system can be configured with internal capsule heaters
for dealing with high humidity as well, but that puts you into a much
higher price bracket than the MKH-20 or the Schoeps Collette.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:16 am, John Smith wrote:
Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


How much money do you want to spend. Name a figure. "As little as
possible as long as it doesn't compromise my sound quality" doesn't
count.



Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , John Smith wrote:
Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


Sennheiser MKH-20 is pretty much the standard one everybody uses. Quieter
than the Schoeps and it fares better in high humidity environments.

The B&K lab mike system can be configured with internal capsule heaters
for dealing with high humidity as well, but that puts you into a much
higher price bracket than the MKH-20 or the Schoeps Collette.
--scott


By God, you are correct, that MKH-20 is exactly what I want. Plus zepps,
and a neat little AA battery powered pre-amp/phantom power supply I saw
on the web the other day. I found quite a bit of info on it, mostly from
UK sites, and a few sound bits. The only bad thing is it is so far out
of my budget that it can only be a fantasy (the sound in the background
is me sobbing with frustration).

My appologies, I should have mentioned a price range. My budget runs to
about 10% of what the Sennheiser can be had for.


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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Mar 18, 2:50 pm, John Smith wrote:

Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.


That's a tough assignment. How about a pair of Behringer C-5 mics
(about $90 each) and an ART Phantom II dual battery powered phantom
power supply (about $55)? While I've never used those mics myself,
I've been told (by a competetor, even) that they're remarkably good,
and they come with both omni and cardioid capsules, so you have the
option of using cardioids if you're working in a place where the omnis
aren't right.



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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:50 pm, John Smith wrote:

Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.


That's a tough assignment. How about a pair of Behringer C-5 mics
(about $90 each) and an ART Phantom II dual battery powered phantom
power supply (about $55)? While I've never used those mics myself,
I've been told (by a competetor, even) that they're remarkably good,
and they come with both omni and cardioid capsules, so you have the
option of using cardioids if you're working in a place where the omnis
aren't right.




You mean the Behringer B-5? Yes I have been considering them, in fact
they were originally my first choice. I will check out that power
supply, one would open up options a lot. I guess I could adapt a small
mixer to a battery supply and haul it around too, but I was hoping to
keep the kit down to a minimum. Thanks.
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Mar 18, 4:22 pm, John Smith wrote:

You mean the Behringer B-5?


Yes. I had the Studio Projects C-4 on the brain, but they cost more
than your budget will allow.


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Peter Schneider Peter Schneider is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

John Smith wrote:
..
Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.


An affordable option would be a pair of naiant MSH-1 omnis:

http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/6mmcapsulemics.html

They are $22 each. You would also require the $15 plug-in-power adapter
if you don't wish to use the mics with phantom power.

I am using a pair of MSH-1 for field recording (classical chamber music
and orchestra). Feel free to e-mail me for samples.

Peter
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

John Smith wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:50 pm, John Smith wrote:

Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.


That's a tough assignment. How about a pair of Behringer C-5 mics
(about $90 each) and an ART Phantom II dual battery powered phantom
power supply (about $55)? While I've never used those mics myself,
I've been told (by a competetor, even) that they're remarkably good,
and they come with both omni and cardioid capsules, so you have the
option of using cardioids if you're working in a place where the omnis
aren't right.




You mean the Behringer B-5? Yes I have been considering them, in fact
they were originally my first choice. I will check out that power
supply, one would open up options a lot. I guess I could adapt a small
mixer to a battery supply and haul it around too, but I was hoping to
keep the kit down to a minimum. Thanks.


Your main problem really is that cassette deck. It was cool once upon a
time, but no longer is it up to the capture of detail even at the level
of an inexpensive modern condensor mic, especially if wanting to capture
sounds that are very low level.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam


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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

hank alrich wrote:
John Smith wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:50 pm, John Smith wrote:

Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.
That's a tough assignment. How about a pair of Behringer C-5 mics
(about $90 each) and an ART Phantom II dual battery powered phantom
power supply (about $55)? While I've never used those mics myself,
I've been told (by a competetor, even) that they're remarkably good,
and they come with both omni and cardioid capsules, so you have the
option of using cardioids if you're working in a place where the omnis
aren't right.



You mean the Behringer B-5? Yes I have been considering them, in fact
they were originally my first choice. I will check out that power
supply, one would open up options a lot. I guess I could adapt a small
mixer to a battery supply and haul it around too, but I was hoping to
keep the kit down to a minimum. Thanks.


Your main problem really is that cassette deck. It was cool once upon a
time, but no longer is it up to the capture of detail even at the level
of an inexpensive modern condensor mic, especially if wanting to capture
sounds that are very low level.


Funny, since I just spent a lot of time and effort restoring and
adjusting the thing, and it works about as well as it did new, maybe
better. If that proves inadequate I will modify it to the point where it
works as I need it to. Of course we old farts never did any good with
that stuff when it was new, which is why the stuff you kids buy today is
soooooooo much better. Especially the consumer crap you suggested on the
other thread.

I stated there that analog, and spaced omni's were a personal choice. I
am not interested in your toy digital recorder and plastic parabolic
mic. If I had all the money in the world my choice would still be analog
capture, although I would go way upscale on the brand; but whether it is
better or worse is irrelevant, it is what I want to use.

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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

John Smith wrote:

Funny, since I just spent a lot of time and effort restoring and
adjusting the thing, and it works about as well as it did new, maybe
better. If that proves inadequate I will modify it to the point where it
works as I need it to. Of course we old farts never did any good with
that stuff when it was new, which is why the stuff you kids buy today is
soooooooo much better. Especially the consumer crap you suggested on the
other thread.


I started getting paid to record stuff in the late '60's. I am now 62
years old. I still have both of the Studers I bought in the mid 70's. I
have a passing acquaintance with the capabilities of both very good and
very crappy analog kit. Your analog gear is closer to the latter, and
mine to the former.

As for consumer crap, what are you talking about? The Korg MR1? Have you
met one yet? The Behringer DEQ2496? Have you driven one?

I'd like to see you mod your cassette rig to the point that it will
exhibit a noise floor comparable to either of those cheapo consumer
devices.

I stated there that analog, and spaced omni's were a personal choice. I
am not interested in your toy digital recorder and plastic parabolic
mic. If I had all the money in the world my choice would still be analog
capture, although I would go way upscale on the brand; but whether it is
better or worse is irrelevant, it is what I want to use.


If you had all the money in the world it wouldn't buy you a decent wow
and flutter spec and modern noise floor and distortion specs for your
cassette deck. When such items were all that could be had cheaply, and
serious nature recordists sprung for a Nagra, then that's what one used
for less-than-serious capture of natural sounds.

Given what you have it makes little sense to obsess with condensor mics,
as a pair of EV 635A's will nicely match your present kit.

If I got out nature-tracking tomorrow I'll use a pair of Schoeps, an MIO
and a TiBook, thanks very much.

And lastly, if you had all the money in the world, you might still be
unable to get your head fully out of your ass. Have a nice bray.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
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Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:16:55 -0400, John Smith wrote
(in article ):

Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


The most articulate omni I have heard so far is the SD Gefell M296. Pricey,
but scarey real. The difference is as profound as the difference between most
SD mics and a Schoeps.

I have a review in the online archives of my site.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

"John Smith" wrote in message


You mean the Behringer B-5? Yes I have been considering
them, in fact they were originally my first choice. I
will check out that power supply, one would open up
options a lot. I guess I could adapt a small mixer to a
battery supply and haul it around too, but I was hoping
to keep the kit down to a minimum. Thanks.



Behringer has a ca. $100 line and battery-powered mixer that provides
phantom power in the 25 volt range in battery-powered mode. It is is
probably compatible with their phantom-powered mics. I've used it with
MXL603s, and while they don't charge up instantly, they seem to work fine.
It uses 3-9 volt batteries that last for about 4 hours. It used to be
called the MXB 1002, but they changed the look and the model number just
lately. I have one and it gets the job done.

As far as low-cost omnis go, Berhinger has their ECM 8000 measurement mic
which is a tad noisier than the quietest mics around, but might work well in
your application. You can get a pair for about $100. It also needs phantom,
but it is for sure compatible with the mixer I mentioned above.


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Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:02:18 -0400, John Smith wrote
(in article ):

Funny, since I just spent a lot of time and effort restoring and
adjusting the thing, and it works about as well as it did new, maybe
better. If that proves inadequate I will modify it to the point where it
works as I need it to. Of course we old farts never did any good with
that stuff when it was new, which is why the stuff you kids buy today is
soooooooo much better. Especially the consumer crap you suggested on the
other thread.

I stated there that analog, and spaced omni's were a personal choice. I
am not interested in your toy digital recorder and plastic parabolic
mic. If I had all the money in the world my choice would still be analog
capture, although I would go way upscale on the brand; but whether it is
better or worse is irrelevant, it is what I want to use.


As one approaching "old fartdom" (some would say I crossed that line some
time back..shut up hank) there is life after analog. Good digital recordings
now surpass what analog could do.

Part of the problem is that your budget requirements relegate you to the
bargain basement where life is cheap and no one gives a rat's ass about
quality. As someone else was kind enough to point out, the weakest link in
your chain is the cassette recorder. My Nak LX5 was pretty startling back in
the day. I bought it used from a guy headed for "higher-Fi" recording with
digital stereo on a VHS tape-based system (way before ADAT).

What's that Paul Simon line? "A man hears what he wants to hear and
disregards the rest." Dig your heels in and you legs will likely break at the
ankle; the weakest point.

Good luck with your search. Try googling omni, dynamic, neodymium and see
what pops up. You might find something there. The beyer m101 omnis I got in
1973 are still working and they still make tthem.

Regards,

Ty (digtal since 1990) Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

John Smith wrote:

Ah, that is important isn't it? Unfortunately it is going to have to
compromise my sound quality. It would be wonderful if I could get
something that is "not too bad" for $100 each by shopping very
carefully. Also they should not "require" phantom power.


You will not find anything even remotely acceptable in terms of noise floor
in that price range. What you are asking to record is, for the most part,
pretty difficult to do because it's so quiet. You will not find K-Mart gear
up to the job.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:16:55 -0400, John Smith wrote

Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


The most articulate omni I have heard so far is the SD Gefell M296. Pricey,
but scarey real. The difference is as profound as the difference between most
SD mics and a Schoeps.


Is that one of the nickel diaphragm types?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:00:33 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:16:55 -0400, John Smith wrote

Rather than fighting about this in another thread, I thought I would
start a more specific one. Helpful suggestions will be very much
appreciated.


The most articulate omni I have heard so far is the SD Gefell M296. Pricey,
but scarey real. The difference is as profound as the difference between
most
SD mics and a Schoeps.


Is that one of the nickel diaphragm types?
--scott



It is.

Ty

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectionaldirect stereo array in field recording?

John Smith wrote:
By God, you are correct, that MKH-20 is exactly what I want. Plus zepps,
and a neat little AA battery powered pre-amp/phantom power supply I saw
on the web the other day. I found quite a bit of info on it, mostly from
UK sites, and a few sound bits. The only bad thing is it is so far out
of my budget that it can only be a fantasy (the sound in the background
is me sobbing with frustration).


It's basically what people use, and it's basically the cheapest thing
specifically designed for the application. The problem is that it's
actually very difficult to record ambient sounds in quiet places,
because the self-noise of the microphone and preamps kills you.

Note that you can halve your mike cost by going mono.

My appologies, I should have mentioned a price range. My budget runs to
about 10% of what the Sennheiser can be had for.


There isn't much that you are going to find there that will have a low
enough self-noise to be useful. There's always the traditional EV 635A,
which is even more rugged and able to handle wet conditions, but has
restricted top and bottom end response and requires a really good preamp
to perform well. But it can be found for under $100 and it, like the
MKH-20, just keeps working no matter what you do to it. Don't expect much
detail in the sound, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Appropriate contemporary microphones for a spaced omnidirectional direct stereo array in field recording?

Ty Ford wrote:
The most articulate omni I have heard so far is the SD Gefell M296. Pricey,
but scarey real. The difference is as profound as the difference between
most
SD mics and a Schoeps.


Is that one of the nickel diaphragm types?


It is.


I keep meaning to try those, since I have absolutely loved the sound of
the ACO and B&K nickel diaphragm types. Any idea how they compare?

You should try the Josephson C617. It's a somewhat smaller nickel
diaphragm type. It's pretty quiet, very omni, and has that amazing
feeling of openness.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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