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[email protected] outsor@city-net.com is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.

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Audio_Empire Audio_Empire is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

In article ,
wrote:

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.


I'm sorry, there is NOTHING one can do with wire that would make 12 feet
of it and 4 RCA plugs worth, essentially, ten grand! It's simply
obscene. Even if these cables did actually do something positive for the
sound (which, if they are simply conductors, they cannot possibly do), I
can't imagine any reason why they would be worth almost $9800 to
ANTBODY! If a person insists on spending money on bling, they should buy
diamonds or platinum or gold - something that has some intrinsic worth!
Gold and platinum (even silver) tend to continually go up in price, and
one can reasonably expect at least a long-term return on one's
investment. Can you imagine someone who buys a pair (or more) of these
valhalla 2 interconnects today, and something better comes along in -
say 5 years, and he tries to sell yesterday's audio bling to someone
else? I can but laugh at this entire nonsense. It's a rip-off and I say
that any rich audiophile who falls for this nonsense deserves to be
victimized, in fact, give me a suitcase full of wooden blocks, green
pens, and ceramic cable elevators and point me at the gullible fool!

On the other hand, in the defense of Stereophile and J. A., allow me to
point out that this article to which you refer is merely reporting an
event that occurred ay Lyric, and the section you quoted gave no
editorial opinion. it merely states that the assembled audiophiles
rather noisily gave theirs.

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Scott[_6_] Scott[_6_] is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:38:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:



Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m

pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.



On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable

lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International

Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a

demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully

suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old

Valhalla cable for the new one.



Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago

demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself

into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self

same subjective results.


Scientific approach? Stereophile doesn't do scientific research, they are an audio magazine. They report on audio. The guy was reporting on an event.
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Audio_Empire Audio_Empire is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

In article ,
Andrew Haley wrote:

wrote:
It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.


I think you're being a bit mean to Stereophile. Of course I admit
that there is some woo-woo stuff like this, but a lot of it isn't, and
there doesn't seem to be a strong party line one way or the other.
Some of their writers spend hours comparing cables, some don't.

Andrew.


The main point here is that Stereophile was merely reporting on an event
that took place. They made no comment, either about the ridiculousness
of a pair of $10,000 interconnects, or the assembled audience's reaction
except to say it was "garrulous". and that opinions were "joyfully
given". What those opinions might have been wasn't even hinted at.

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[email protected] outsor@city-net.com is offline
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Posts: 122
Default Stereophile, don't worry

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.


I think you're being a bit mean to Stereophile. Of course I admit
that there is some woo-woo stuff like this, but a lot of it isn't, and
there doesn't seem to be a strong party line one way or the other.
Some of their writers spend hours comparing cables, some don't.


The doctrine of the validity of the subjective listening experience
permeates all editoral policy. The only "party line" I have ever seen is
exactly that. The excesses in the religion of wire is but a product of
same.
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Tixe Tixe is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

On 1 Jun 2013 14:53:49 GMT, in article ,
stated:

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.


I think you're being a bit mean to Stereophile. Of course I admit
that there is some woo-woo stuff like this, but a lot of it isn't, and
there doesn't seem to be a strong party line one way or the other.
Some of their writers spend hours comparing cables, some don't.


The doctrine of the validity of the subjective listening experience
permeates all editoral policy. The only "party line" I have ever seen is
exactly that. The excesses in the religion of wire is but a product of
same.



Your general point is well-taken. The current editorial staff of Stereophile has
not merely found objective testing unnecessary, but has gone out of its way to
denigrate it. And the basic argument has been, once you cut through the thicket
of words, is: "objective testing methods are invalid because they say that
components that sound different to me sound the same."

(Disclosu I let my subscription to Stereophile lapse a long time ago based on
dissatisfaction with their product, but their objection to objective listening
tests was not the main reason).

Having said that, if someone wants to spend $10,000 on some speaker wire, let
them. Nordost is not acting fraudulently. Whoever the buyer is feels better
owning that wire, and having the purchase and service experience that goes with
it, than having an incremental $10,000 in the bank or having other things that
cost that much. None of us is in a position to say that that preference is
invalid.

Oh, and to anyone who thinks that it is "wasteful to society" for that much
money to be spent on speaker wire, you might benefit from taking an economics
course. (Or, given the state of higher education today, you very well might
not).
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Audio_Empire Audio_Empire is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

In article , wrote:

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get self
same subjective results.


I think you're being a bit mean to Stereophile. Of course I admit
that there is some woo-woo stuff like this, but a lot of it isn't, and
there doesn't seem to be a strong party line one way or the other.
Some of their writers spend hours comparing cables, some don't.


The doctrine of the validity of the subjective listening experience
permeates all editoral policy. The only "party line" I have ever seen is
exactly that. The excesses in the religion of wire is but a product of
same.


Whether they do or don't test things scientifically, their policy in no
way changes the fact this is just a retrospective report on an event. It
has no "editorial policy" in it. In fact, no opinion by the author was
given at all.

To the previous poster (before outsor).

I don't think any reviewers spend hours comparing cables. That would be
like comparing table-salt grains under a microscope looking for
differences. A useless and futile procedure at best.

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Audio_Empire Audio_Empire is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

In article ,
Tixe wrote:

On 1 Jun 2013 14:53:49 GMT, in article ,
stated:

It is still doing its same thing. Here a bit from the current online
mag:

Rune Skov shows off the new Nordost Valhalla 2 interconnect ($9799/2m
pair) next to his sweet Nordost tattoo.

On Tuesday May 28th, 2013, Nordost premiered the Valhalla 2 cable
lineup at Lyric Hi-Fi in New York City. Rune Skov, International
Product Training & Sales Support Manager for Nordost, gave a
demonstration to a garrulous group of audiophiles who joyfully
suggested what differences they heard as Skov switched out each old
Valhalla cable for the new one.

Wow, what a scientific approach. Just as the editor some years ago
demonstrated in his "debate" about objective testing, if one puts oneself
into a context known to produce false subjective results; one will get
self
same subjective results.

I think you're being a bit mean to Stereophile. Of course I admit
that there is some woo-woo stuff like this, but a lot of it isn't, and
there doesn't seem to be a strong party line one way or the other.
Some of their writers spend hours comparing cables, some don't.


The doctrine of the validity of the subjective listening experience
permeates all editoral policy. The only "party line" I have ever seen is
exactly that. The excesses in the religion of wire is but a product of
same.



Your general point is well-taken. The current editorial staff of Stereophile
has
not merely found objective testing unnecessary, but has gone out of its way
to
denigrate it. And the basic argument has been, once you cut through the
thicket
of words, is: "objective testing methods are invalid because they say that
components that sound different to me sound the same."

(Disclosu I let my subscription to Stereophile lapse a long time ago based
on
dissatisfaction with their product, but their objection to objective
listening
tests was not the main reason).

Having said that, if someone wants to spend $10,000 on some speaker wire, let
them. Nordost is not acting fraudulently. Whoever the buyer is feels better
owning that wire, and having the purchase and service experience that goes
with
it, than having an incremental $10,000 in the bank or having other things
that
cost that much. None of us is in a position to say that that preference is
invalid.

Oh, and to anyone who thinks that it is "wasteful to society" for that much
money to be spent on speaker wire, you might benefit from taking an economics
course. (Or, given the state of higher education today, you very well might
not).


My beef is not with Nordost selling 12 ft of wire and 4 phono plugs for
$10,000, nor is it with the rich fools who fall for the Nordost scam. It
was with the OP who said that the demonstration report was an example of
Stereophile's flawed editorial policy. I say again, that piece has NO
editorial content. The reporter merely described the event and the
product, and said that the enthusiastic audiophile audience happily gave
their opinions. Unless there was more to the report than the OP posted,
the reporter gave no opinion about the cables' performance.

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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

Audio_Empire wrote:


I don't think any reviewers spend hours comparing cables. That would
be like comparing table-salt grains under a microscope looking for
differences. A useless and futile procedure at best.


I have always wondered how they could claim to hear differences among
cables, amplifiers, and CD players when they still haven't been able to hear
and correlate differences among speakers and their causes. They are in a
wonderland of mystery when it comes to speakers and their use and what
causes various effects, effects that are very audible compared to the
imaginary ones between cables. I think the high-end (expensive hobbyinst
class) industry will die out before any of them get a clue.

Gary Eickmeier



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Default Stereophile, don't worry

In article ,
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote:

Audio_Empire wrote:


I don't think any reviewers spend hours comparing cables. That would
be like comparing table-salt grains under a microscope looking for
differences. A useless and futile procedure at best.


I have always wondered how they could claim to hear differences among
cables, amplifiers, and CD players when they still haven't been able to hear
and correlate differences among speakers and their causes. They are in a
wonderland of mystery when it comes to speakers and their use and what
causes various effects, effects that are very audible compared to the
imaginary ones between cables. I think the high-end (expensive hobbyinst
class) industry will die out before any of them get a clue.

Gary Eickmeier


I assume that most of us who post here on a regular basis are Old Farts.
Certainly, I've known of several names here for decades. I'm more than
reasonably sure that interest in high-end radio will die out with the
current over-fifty crowd. I hope I'm wrong, but interest in good sound
doesn't seem to be an interest that attracts many youngsters. Everytime
I go to a hi-fi show or event at a local hi-fi salon, all I see is old
guys. Not a healthy situation.

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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

Audio_Empire wrote:


I assume that most of us who post here on a regular basis are Old
Farts. Certainly, I've known of several names here for decades. I'm
more than reasonably sure that interest in high-end radio will die
out with the current over-fifty crowd. I hope I'm wrong, but interest
in good sound doesn't seem to be an interest that attracts many
youngsters. Everytime I go to a hi-fi show or event at a local hi-fi
salon, all I see is old guys. Not a healthy situation.


I pointed this out to my 15 yr old daughter. She said sure we're interested
in technical stuff - we've got our computers, pads, pods, phones, Facetime &
Skype, and above all Minecraft (just kidding, but it's true). In other
words, they are no longer impressed by the presentation, just the
information. I have no doubt they would be just as happy watching Fast &
Furious on an iPad than on Imax 3D Surround Sound.

They will buy a larger screen TV and "Home Theater in a Box" and maybe even
a 3D player, but they don't quite know how to set them up. They will put 5
twelve inch woofers in their cars to play Rap & catch girls, but they don't
care about the home system or realism, just bass output and loudness.

So what becomes of live concerts? They are more interested in Rock concerts
than real music, classical or jazz, in a good hall. The schools do still
have jazz bands and my daughter is going to strings camp again this summer,
taught by the symphony people from the LSO.

It is mainly the reproducing part they aren't interested in. When I take
pictures, I like to see them BIG, whether it is on paper or on screen. They
look at them on their phones. I just shot my daughter's recital in Hi Def
and stereo sound and offered to make one for them, but the parents there are
happy with their iPhone footage of their kid. I would rather have a CD and
hear it on my big system, they are happy with an MP3 download on their
earbuds.

I can't even teach my kid anything about all I have learned about
photography, video, and sound.

Gary Eickmeier

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KH KH is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

On 6/3/2013 3:48 AM, Audio_Empire wrote:
In article ,
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote:

Audio_Empire wrote:


snip

I assume that most of us who post here on a regular basis are Old Farts.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Certainly, I've known of several names here for decades. I'm more than
reasonably sure that interest in high-end radio will die out with the
current over-fifty crowd. I hope I'm wrong, but interest in good sound
doesn't seem to be an interest that attracts many youngsters. Everytime
I go to a hi-fi show or event at a local hi-fi salon, all I see is old
guys. Not a healthy situation.


I don't know anyone, personally, under 40 that cares about high end
sound outside of HT. When all boomers head for the long dirt nap, I
think high end audio will go with us.

Keith

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Mats Peterson Mats Peterson is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

KH wrote:
On 6/3/2013 3:48 AM, Audio_Empire wrote:
In article ,
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote:

Audio_Empire wrote:


snip

I assume that most of us who post here on a regular basis are Old Farts.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Certainly, I've known of several names here for decades. I'm more than
reasonably sure that interest in high-end radio will die out with the
current over-fifty crowd. I hope I'm wrong, but interest in good sound
doesn't seem to be an interest that attracts many youngsters. Everytime
I go to a hi-fi show or event at a local hi-fi salon, all I see is old
guys. Not a healthy situation.


I don't know anyone, personally, under 40 that cares about high end
sound outside of HT. When all boomers head for the long dirt nap, I
think high end audio will go with us.

Keith


Im 49, and I do care a hell of a lot about audio quality. Its sad to
see that nobody else does anymore.

Mats

--
Mats Peterson
http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/
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[email protected] stereoeditor@earthlink.net is offline
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Default Stereophile, don't worry

On Monday, June 3, 2013 10:37:59 AM UTC-4, KH wrote:
I don't know anyone, personally, under 40 that cares about high end
sound outside of HT.


Please note that Ariel Bitran, who write the report on the Nordost
demonstration, is 23, and that Stereophile's assistant editor, Stephen
Mejias, who is now one of the magazine's most popular writers, is 34.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile




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