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#1
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Neil Young and digital recording
Conversations about Young and his recent interview about the medium
have me thinking back to something he did in the early days of digital tracking, mostly just to point out to people that he (or his staff) didn't start thinking about better quality digital yesterday, but now I can't find reference to what I'm thinking about, so maybe someone can help me out. I have a strong recollection of an article (RS? SPIN?) from the early days of digital tracking (as opposed to just transferring or mastering) which focused on a project he was doing at his ranch with Crazy Horse where he brought in higher technology than was commercially available at the time (again, recreating a memory here). It may not have been groundbreaking for recording on the whole but it hadn't been done for a major label, major rock recording. But I can't remember the particulars, and searches are failing me. 24bt instead of 16? Higher than 44.1 during tracking? Some other higher definition angle? I'm sure it was something where in a year it didn't seem like so much of a big deal, but even so it was a project where the technology played a big part (not thinking about Trans style technology). Does this ring a bell to anyone? A link to info would be great. Or am I totally misremembering it? : ) Thanks : ) v |
#2
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Neil Young and digital recording
vdubreeze wrote:
Conversations about Young and his recent interview about the medium have me thinking back to something he did in the early days of digital tracking, mostly just to point out to people that he (or his staff) didn't start thinking about better quality digital yesterday, but now I read Neil's religous assertions. The only thing that is clear is that Neil has little understanding of 'digital', and indiscriminately lumps it all in with MP3/AAC (etc) data-reduction. geoff |
#3
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Neil Young and digital recording
Trevor wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message ... I read Neil's religous assertions. The only thing that is clear is that Neil has little understanding of 'digital', and indiscriminately lumps it all in with MP3/AAC (etc) data-reduction. Neil made his distaste for digital known (and his ignorance of it, at least at that time) *long* before MP3, AAC etc. were even invented. He still seems to think 16/44 LPCM is inadequate for maintaining fidelity of old 2 track 7.5ips live concert tape recordings from the late 60's, early 70's:-) He probably finds digital deporessing.... geoff |
#4
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Neil Young and digital recording
"geoff" wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? Trevor. |
#5
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Neil Young and digital recording
Trevor wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? Trevor. 'Depressing' sorry. geoff |
#6
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Neil Young and digital recording
Trevor wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? Dr. Diamond knows ... Trevor Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#7
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Neil Young and digital recording
Trevor wrote:
wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? Trevor. "I got the digital blues. My soul is just a number. .... I got the digital blues. My soul is just another number. Three forty-four point six, is that really me Three forty-four point six, you're kidding me How did we get into the shape we're in I check it out, I'm one again." - JJ Cale, Digital Blues. -- Les Cargill |
#8
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Neil Young and digital recording
On 2/2/2012 7:28 PM, geoff wrote:
The only thing that is clear is that Neil has little understanding of 'digital', and indiscriminately lumps it all in with MP3/AAC (etc) data-reduction. Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone? His name comes up often enough as a non-fan of digital audio that it's practically entered netlore. Analog or digital, I still don't like the sound of his voice so I don't listen to his music. And I don't care if he listens to mine. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#9
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Neil Young and digital recording
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/2/2012 7:28 PM, geoff wrote: The only thing that is clear is that Neil has little understanding of 'digital', and indiscriminately lumps it all in with MP3/AAC (etc) data-reduction. Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone? Yeah, cos people lap up the disinformation, embellish it, and pass it on. Just not great for the human condition. geoff |
#10
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Neil Young and digital recording
On Feb 3, 6:12*pm, "geoff" wrote:
Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone? Yeah, cos people lap up the disinformation, embellish it, and pass it on. Just not great for the human condition. geoff Right, which is why I only asked if anyone remembered the facts about the early digital hi def sort of tracking that happened at The Ranch several decades ago. No content about recent interview included ; ) |
#11
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Neil Young and digital recording
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... Trevor wrote: "geoff" wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? }'Depressing' sorry. Dr. Diamond knows ... Allowing for the typo, I'm still puzzled as to why? Trevor. |
#12
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Neil Young and digital recording
Trevor wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... Trevor wrote: "geoff" wrote in message ... He probably finds digital deporessing.... Whatever that is, why? }'Depressing' sorry. Dr. Diamond knows ... Allowing for the typo, I'm still puzzled as to why? Trevor. Neil is famous for his deep dark depressions over the decades. geoff |
#13
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Neil Young and digital recording
vdubreeze wrote:
Conversations about Young and his recent interview about the medium have me thinking back to something he did in the early days of digital tracking, mostly just to point out to people that he (or his staff) didn't start thinking about better quality digital yesterday, but now I can't find reference to what I'm thinking about, so maybe someone can help me out. I have a strong recollection of an article (RS? SPIN?) from the early days of digital tracking (as opposed to just transferring or mastering) which focused on a project he was doing at his ranch with Crazy Horse where he brought in higher technology than was commercially available at the time (again, recreating a memory here). It may not have been groundbreaking for recording on the whole but it hadn't been done for a major label, major rock recording. But I can't remember the particulars, and searches are failing me. 24bt instead of 16? Higher than 44.1 during tracking? Some other higher definition angle? Neil Young has done so many crazy things over the years it's hard to point any one of them in particular. He has never been satisfied with his sound and often willing to try various crazy technologies. This is fine, and it's a good thing for musicians to be that way. When we stop striving for better performance, we're dead. However, I do blame Mr. Young for having spread an outrageous amount of pretty bizarre misinformation about technology over the years, and I often have to explain to customers that just because Neil Young said that there is stairstepping in waveforms coming out of the DAC does not mean it actually happens... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
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Neil Young and digital recording
Scott Dorsey wrote:
However, I do blame Mr. Young for having spread an outrageous amount of pretty bizarre misinformation about technology over the years, and I often have to explain to customers that just because Neil Young said that there is stairstepping in waveforms coming out of the DAC does not mean it actually happens... --scott In his grungy periods the music often sounds that way at the best of times ! geoff |
#15
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Neil Young and digital recording
Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone?
He has been consistently outspoken about getting better fidelity in the digital realm. Does his opinion matter - I guess not, but if he wasn't bringing up the issue, who would be? Whether or not you like his music is a separate matter - right? Mike |
#16
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Neil Young and digital recording
Mr Soul wrote:
Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone? He has been consistently outspoken about getting better fidelity in the digital realm. Does his opinion matter - I guess not, but if he wasn't bringing up the issue, who would be? Whether or not you like his music is a separate matter - right? I am in favor of anyone pushing for higher quality reproduction, in any form, in any format. However, I think that spouting a lot of pseudoscience in the process just harms his own position (and mine). --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#17
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Neil Young and digital recording
On 2/7/2012 9:01 AM, Mr Soul wrote:
He has been consistently outspoken about getting better fidelity in the digital realm. Does his opinion matter - I guess not, but if he wasn't bringing up the issue, who would be? I don't think it's an issue that any individual can bring up as just an issue. If he were to say "Don't buy my latest CD because I don't care for how it sounds." that would make an impact. Or if all listeners would simply not listen to anything that wasn't up to Mr. Young's standards, that would make an impact. But that just isn't going to happen. There are still plenty of people for whom lower fidelity serves the purpose for which they buy, beg, or steal music. It's not a big problem. He should put his efforts into solving the unemployment problem in the US. Hire people to hawk his CDs. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#18
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Neil Young and digital recording
However, I think that spouting a lot of pseudoscience in the process just
harms his own position (and mine). Agreed but remember Neil is a musician not a scientist so he is going to talk about these issues in the way he knows how, i.e., non- scientific. Can you be specific about his pseudo-science? Mike |
#19
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Neil Young and digital recording
I don't think it's an issue that any individual can bring up
as just an issue. If he were to say "Don't buy my latest CD because I don't care for how it sounds." that would make an impact. Why not - isn't he entitled to his opinion just like anyone else? He has finally endorsed the audio quality on his Blue Ray versions on his Anthologies which is the reason he waited until now to release them. make an impact. But that just isn't going to happen. There are still plenty of people for whom lower fidelity serves the purpose for which they buy, beg, or steal music. It's not a big problem. Then let them have their MP3s. He should put his efforts into solving the unemployment problem in the US. He has been doing that. He owns Lionel Trains which employs people. He's been building a fuel efficient car - that's employed a few more. The people that work on his tours I am glad Neil has raised the fidelity issue. Mike |
#20
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Neil Young and digital recording
Mr Soul wrote:
However, I think that spouting a lot of pseudoscience in the process just harms his own position (and mine). Agreed but remember Neil is a musician not a scientist so he is going to talk about these issues in the way he knows how, i.e., non- scientific. Can you be specific about his pseudo-science? Well, I mentioned the stairstepping. If he'd just say, "I don't like this, I demand something better" that would seem more reasonable. Hell, for a long time in the eighties, nobody knew why any of the stuff sounded so bad. Now that we do, we can fix it and have fixed most of it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#21
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Neil Young and digital recording
Mr Soul wrote:
Is there some reason why his opinion is important to anyone? He has been consistently outspoken about getting better fidelity in the digital realm. Does his opinion matter - I guess not, but if he wasn't bringing up the issue, who would be? Whether or not you like his music is a separate matter - right? Love some of his music, ambivalent about some, and loath some. Problem as I see it is when his totally flawed views re audio get prominent media coverage, and he is accortded the status of an authority on the subject. geoff |
#22
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Neil Young and digital recording
Love some of his music, ambivalent about some, and loath some.
Right - he's done some pretty awful stuff but some stuff is genius. Ever listen to his 1st album? It's got some of the nicest arranged & produced songs of his entire career. That's because Ry Cooder did the production & they had some good studio musicians on it. Unfortunately, the album bombed & Neil very rarely mentions it. Problem as I see it is when his totally flawed views re audio get prominent media coverage, and he is accortded the status of an authority on the subject. Right - the media likes to annoint celebrities instead of authorities. Mike |
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