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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

After bugging Prism for more than a year to get one of their interfaces
to review, they finally sent me a Lyra 1. It's a really high end USB
audio interface, too expensive for the penniless desktop studio
singer-songwriter, but putting it through its paces was a good
opportunity for me to see how the other 1 percent lives.

The usual Mike Rivers Way Too Detailed Review is now available for your
enjoyment and education in the Product Reviews section of my web page.
Even if you're not hot to buy one, I try to work some generally useful
facts into my reviews, so check it out. You might learn something about
similar devices.

My Reviews: http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com/product-reviews/

If you just can't wait, you can go directly to the Lyra review he
http://mikeriversaudio.files.wordpre..._review_mr.pdf


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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

Mike Rivers wrote:

After bugging Prism for more than a year to get one of their interfaces to
review, they finally sent me a Lyra 1. It's a really high end USB audio
interface, too expensive for the penniless desktop studio
singer-songwriter, but putting it through its paces was a good opportunity
for me to see how the other 1 percent lives.

The usual Mike Rivers Way Too Detailed Review is now available for your
enjoyment and education in the Product Reviews section of my web page.
Even if you're not hot to buy one, I try to work some generally useful
facts into my reviews, so check it out. You might learn something about
similar devices.

My Reviews: http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com/product-reviews/

If you just can't wait, you can go directly to the Lyra review he
http://mikeriversaudio.files.wordpre...d_lyra1_review
_mr.pdf


Thanks, Mike. looking forward to reading it.

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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/13/2014 3:54 PM, david gourley wrote:

Thank you, and_never_ way too detailed.


I occasionally get comments along the line of "Quit trying to show how
much you know and just tell us if it's any good or not." Fortunately,
not too many.

Ty and I were just talking the other day about how nice it would be if
magazines that pay for content would publish really detailed reviews
(they usually limit them to 1000 to 2000 words). Or, as an alternative,
there was an inoffensive way that independents could get some money from
publishing reviews the way we'd like to see them on our own web sites.



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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/13/2014 3:54 PM, david gourley wrote:

Thank you, and_never_ way too detailed.


I occasionally get comments along the line of "Quit trying to show how
much you know and just tell us if it's any good or not." Fortunately,
not too many.


Well, that's crazy. Or more likely code for "TL;DR". Is it possible
to put an executive summary up front, then the firehose later?

Just a thought.

I can understand that, but I wouldn't agree with it. But you can't
tell what somebody's tolerance for detail will be.

Hey, your review of the Focusrite stuff helped me buy something, so it
gets no better than that.

Ty and I were just talking the other day about how nice it would be if
magazines that pay for content would publish really detailed reviews
(they usually limit them to 1000 to 2000 words). Or, as an alternative,
there was an inoffensive way that independents could get some money from
publishing reviews the way we'd like to see them on our own web sites.




Dunno - start a blog. SFAIK, that means every reviewer has to be a
registered author for it.

The only money might be advertising or donations. I dunno what
that means W.R.T. potentially negative reviews and such.

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Nate Najar Nate Najar is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

I have been usng an orpheus for about 2 years now, and they're nearly interchangeable. So I agree with all you said. The sound is stunning.

I love the way you write reviews. I can actually get a sense of what the product can and cannot do and what kind of sound quality to expect. I made mention to Ty in an email awhile back the same thing- I wish more magazines employed you guys to write their reviews. Ty's mic reviews are so useful. I'm sick of reading reviews in magazines and they basically reprint the ad copy and then say "it sounds good!" Mic reviews are the worst- i recently read a review in a magazine of the newest coles ribbon mic. I would have liked them to comment on the front back symmetry and the deep ness of the nulls, but instead all they did was discuss how it's good for guitar amps and drum rooms. What a joke. That review told me nothing. Most microphone reviews these days are interchangeable....

Scott writes very good mic reviews that I see published but I don't recall seeing one for awhile?

N
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/13/2014 9:27 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

Is it possible
to put an executive summary up front, then the firehose later?


I put that at the end.

Hey, your review of the Focusrite stuff helped me buy something, so it
gets no better than that.


That makes me feel good. Thanks.

The only money might be advertising or donations. I dunno what
that means W.R.T. potentially negative reviews and such.


While we point out downsides and personal gripes, most of us aren't
inclined to give what would be considered a negative review. I've never
had anything in here that I thought was so bad that I just plain
wouldn't recommend it, but if I did, I'd be inclined to send it back
without reviewing it and telling the manufacturer about the problems.
But these days there really isn't much junk and the differences tend to
be in how features are implemented and how useful they are.

A great performing unit that's too hard to operate deserves to be
reviewed as such. A promising device that just doesn't do anything
useful should just go back without a review. I feel a certain degree of
responsibility to both the readers and the manufacturers when I write a
review. I don't want to slander anyone, but on the other hand, I don't
do a wide variety of recording work, so it's easy for me to miss a
compressor that sucks on drums but works great on vocals. If I'm handing
out information in a forum, I'm more comfortable with the feeling that
it's just another opinion - take it or leave it.




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Sean Conolly Sean Conolly is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
After bugging Prism for more than a year to get one of their interfaces to
review, they finally sent me a Lyra 1. It's a really high end USB audio
interface, too expensive for the penniless desktop studio
singer-songwriter, but putting it through its paces was a good opportunity
for me to see how the other 1 percent lives.

The usual Mike Rivers Way Too Detailed Review is now available for your
enjoyment and education in the Product Reviews section of my web page.
Even if you're not hot to buy one, I try to work some generally useful
facts into my reviews, so check it out. You might learn something about
similar devices.


Not too detailed at all! It did leave me wishing for some pics inside the
unit though.

Sean


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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/14/2014 9:49 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:
Not too detailed at all! It did leave me wishing for some pics inside the
unit though.


I was going to include one, but, y'know, one SMD board looks like any
other SMD board unless you get down to individual components. I suppose
I could have taken a close-up of the converter chips just to validate my
text, but what's the point? Really the only thing interesting inside
the case was the shield around the power supply section.

At least it wasn't difficult to get open. I would have liked to see what
was inside the Focusrite Forte, but I couldn't figure out how to open it
up and be sure I could put it back together. They don't like it when you
send them back a box of loose parts.

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Jay Ts[_4_] Jay Ts[_4_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/14/2014 9:49 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:
Not too detailed at all! It did leave me wishing for some pics inside
the unit though.


I was going to include one, but, y'know, one SMD board looks like any
other SMD board unless you get down to individual components.


A sharp, hi-res photo can show a lot.

At least a few of us here on RAP would find a photo of the PCB
interesting and informative.

You wrote that the unit was not easy to repair because it's all SMD, but
there are different kinds of SMD parts, some larger than others, and are
more open to repair, depending on individual skills. A pic of the board
would show the component package technology used.

Plus, some electronic designers like to gawk at circuit board designs to
learn from them.



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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Jay Ts wrote:
A sharp, hi-res photo can show a lot.

At least a few of us here on RAP would find a photo of the PCB
interesting and informative.


It's gone now, so I can't take a photo for you, but for future
reference, what would you like to see? Can you point me to a photo on
the web or on a file host that shows what you'd find valuable? And also
point out what you're seeing that's useful. I'll try to help next time
around if you can convince me that a photo would be more useful than
just to prove that I was able to open the case.

Incidentally, I tried to get a good picture of the different color
states of the meters and it just wouldn't work, even with a fully
adjustable digital camera in the hands of a decent technical
photographer friend. If the top red section was on, half the meter
photographed red, and that's not what it really looks like. My friend
speculated that a film camera might work better for this application,
but we didn't bother.

You wrote that the unit was not easy to repair because it's all SMD, but
there are different kinds of SMD parts, some larger than others, and are
more open to repair, depending on individual skills.


Trust me on this one. When I said that it wasn't easy to repair, I meant
it's not something that the average user would attempt, or if he tried,
would probably not be successful at it. Maybe one out of a few hundred
users will have the tools and skill to repair it, that is, assuming you
could get a schematic and board layout drawings from the manufacturer.
But in the real world, if anything on the circuit board goes, perhaps
with the exception of a power supply component, it's not going to be
repairable by anyone but the factory.

I've replaced a couple of SMD 2-terminal parts if there's some working
room, but this was so cramped that I didn't have tools small enough to
work with. But then, I'm still in the analog and discrete world when it
comes to service.

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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/15/2014 12:15 PM, hank alrich wrote:
Excepting_Tape Op_, which appears to be running upstream with
considerable success, while_giving away_ the magazine.


True, but they don't pay their writers (or at least they weren't paying
for articles when I asked a few years back). They do have a lot of
advertisers, that's for sure, and it's not junker class gear that
they're advertising, so somebody must be buying it.

Some of their reviews are pretty good. I wish I was more interested in
the stuff that they review, though.

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Jay Ts[_4_] Jay Ts[_4_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Jay Ts wrote:
A sharp, hi-res photo can show a lot.

At least a few of us here on RAP would find a photo of the PCB
interesting and informative.


It's gone now, so I can't take a photo for you, but for future
reference, what would you like to see?


In terms of the circuit and performance, if you can get the printing on
the main chips, such as the codec, it can help identify the exact part.
From there, it's possible to look up the corresponding datasheet and
learn a lot about the quality of the product.

It's nice to see the brands of electrolytic caps in the power supply
section, too. There are many brands of very cheap and unreliable Chinese
caps on the market, and a few that are well known to be top quality. It's
a very common point of failure, so it matters. (And it's also easy to
repair if those caps are through-hole.) You don't need to get that in the
photo; if the caps are Nichicon, United Chemi-con or Panasonic, just tell
people.

In general for SMD chips, there are footprints that are so tiny that
virtually no human can solder them, but there are also older, larger
footprints (such TSSOP) that are just half of the 0.1" through-hole
packages from the 1970s that we all love. It requires learning a few
new tricks, but they are actually very easy to work with. I repaired my M-
Audio DMP3 with a TSSOP chip, and it was the first time I ever worked
with an SMD chip!

Incidentally, I tried to get a good picture of the different color
states of the meters and it just wouldn't work, even with a fully
adjustable digital camera in the hands of a decent technical
photographer friend. If the top red section was on, half the meter
photographed red, and that's not what it really looks like. My friend
speculated that a film camera might work better for this application,
but we didn't bother.


I have much better than decent technical skills in photograpy.

From what I'm seeing in the photos in the article, the first thing you
need to to is use brighter lighting so the light level on the case more
closely matches the brightness of the LED display. The LEDs are simply
overexposed, which will mess up the colors.

After that, you may need to adjust the color of your lighting to match
the color balance of the LEDs to the other things in the image.

To get your camera's color balance set right, use a standard photographic
gray card that has a flat spectral response and about 18% reflectance.
(E.g., Kodak R-27) Then use the camera's custom setting for color balance
(or "white balance") with that as the reference.

I think that much should do it for you, but I can't be sure. If not,
there are further refinements possible.

Maybe one out of a few hundred
users will have the tools and skill to repair it, that is, assuming you
could get a schematic and board layout drawings from the manufacturer.


It's not always necessary to have an exact schematic or understand the
circuit completely. Often, designs are based on reference designs they
got from the manufacturer. I repaired my DMP3 just from looking at the
circuit board and discerning how the circuit generally worked, looking at
the INA163 datasheet, probing some pins to see that something was wrong,
and making a logical guess. It was easy.

That doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes it can be like that, or
even simpler.

But in the real world, if anything on the circuit board goes, perhaps
with the exception of a power supply component, it's not going to be
repairable by anyone but the factory.


It really depends, and that is why it's nice to see a pic of the circuit
board. If there are no custom proprietary chips, and you can identify all
of the chips, and look them up on Mouser or Digi-Key and order in
quantity of one, that's a big plus!

I've replaced a couple of SMD 2-terminal parts if there's some working
room, but this was so cramped that I didn't have tools small enough to
work with. But then, I'm still in the analog and discrete world when it
comes to service.


Look up "soldering smd" on YouTube. There are some really good lessons.
(Try Dave Jones's EEVblog.com site - Episodes - #180, #183, #186,
#434.) I got over my fear of SMD that way, and now I think, "If they can
do it, I can."

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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/15/2014 2:44 PM, Jay Ts wrote:

In terms of the circuit and performance, if you can get the printing on
the main chips, such as the codec, it can help identify the exact part.
From there, it's possible to look up the corresponding datasheet and
learn a lot about the quality of the product.


I could read it with difficulty, and I put the info about the codecs in
the review because I knew that some people were going to want to compare
what's used in this unit with what's used in some other unit, then start
a discussion on Gearslutz along the lines of "The $2,000 Lyra uses the
same converters as the $200 M-Audio (OK, I don't know if that's true but
you get the point) so why is it so much more expensive?

It's nice to see the brands of electrolytic caps in the power supply
section, too.


In order to do that on this unit I would have had to disassemble it even
further since the power supply, except for some vent slots, was pretty
thoroughly enclosed. I wouldn't expect a company like Prism would use
cheap components.

if the caps are Nichicon, United Chemi-con or Panasonic, just tell
people.


I've heard of those brands and if I notice them, I might mention them.
There was very little on the main board that's identifiable. I don't
know how to tell which of those little rectangular chips are resistors
and which are capacitors, much less the brand names.

In general for SMD chips, there are footprints that are so tiny that
virtually no human can solder them, but there are also older, larger
footprints (such TSSOP) that are just half of the 0.1" through-hole
packages from the 1970s that we all love.


What part of "it's practically unrepairable" don't you understand? Do I
have to prove this to you? You're reading my review. Take my word for
it. If it was easy to repair, I would have mentioned that.

From what I'm seeing in the photos in the article, the first thing you
need to to is use brighter lighting so the light level on the case more
closely matches the brightness of the LED display. The LEDs are simply
overexposed, which will mess up the colors.


Tell that to Prism. I'd have to look at the review again, but I think
that all of the pictures were either screen shots or came from Prism's
"high resolution" press photo library. The reason why I tried to
photograph the meters myself was that I wasn't satisfied with the stock
Prism photos. You DID read the review, didn't you?

It's not always necessary to have an exact schematic or understand the
circuit completely. Often, designs are based on reference designs they
got from the manufacturer. I repaired my DMP3 just from looking at the
circuit board and discerning how the circuit generally worked, looking at
the INA163 datasheet, probing some pins to see that something was wrong,
and making a logical guess. It was easy.


OK, you can try fixing your Lyra when you get one and it breaks. Most
people who get into a failed device will look for a blown fuse or a
charred resistor. I can trace analog signals, but when it comes to logic
beyond simple gates, there's really nothing I can do to figure out
what's wrong. If your problem is with an op amp, yeah, that's not
difficult assuming you can remove the bad one and replace it without
buggering up the board.

If there are no custom proprietary chips, and you can identify all
of the chips, and look them up on Mouser or Digi-Key and order in
quantity of one, that's a big plus!


This ain't no $200 mic preamp.

I'm not really writing reviews for repair technicians who fix things
when they break, I'm writing for people who are going to use them and
hope that they don't break. To be honest, I'd take a crack at a mic
preamp that quit working, even if it was mostly SMD construction, but I
know my limits. I have a small Mackie mixer, a 402 VLZ3 I think, that
has a dead headphone amplifier. The way it's packaged, it needs to be
completely disassembled to even see the component side of the board, and
the chips are really packed closely together. I wouldn't take a chance
on screwing something else up trying to repair it. And for sure I'm not
going to get my soldering iron close to a $2,000 interface with a lot of
digital stuff on it. I might tackle the power supply if that was clearly
the point of failure (which isn't too difficult to determine) and it was
Sunday and I needed it for a session that night. But I've got good sense
and I'd send it back to the company for repair.

Look up "soldering smd" on YouTube. There are some really good lessons.


Yeah, like I'm going to trust myself to work on an expensive piece like
this with what I learned from YouTube? Nope. I have some ChipQuik and
have used that to remove a part and replace it when I could get in to
work on it, but I only chanced working on something I cared about after
removing and replacing a bunch of surface mount parts on a PC graphics
board that I picked out of someone's Free Stuff pile at a hamfest, just
to have something to practice on.

Look, Jay, I write these reviews because it gives an opportunity to play
with stuff that I wouldn't buy (either it's too expensive or I don't
need it) and I share them with those who are interested for all the fame
and glory that it gets me. It doesn't get me any money. If you've like
me to further into the design and construction, I'll be happy to give
you a quote. You have some valid questions, but you're very different
from the user for whom this gear was designed.

An Ampex AG-440 was designed for a different kind of user and was built
to be serviced (and in fact there are full schematics in the manual)
because every recording studio and broadcast station had a tech on board
or on call. This is not the case with today's studio gear, even units
such as the Lyra, that would be comfortably at home in any top tier
studio today. They just don't make studio techs any more like they did
in the Ampex days - because they don't make gear that way any more.




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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:03:24 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:

From what I'm seeing in the photos in the article, the first thing you
need to to is use brighter lighting so the light level on the case more
closely matches the brightness of the LED display. The LEDs are simply
overexposed, which will mess up the colors.


Tell that to Prism. I'd have to look at the review again, but I think
that all of the pictures were either screen shots or came from Prism's
"high resolution" press photo library. The reason why I tried to
photograph the meters myself was that I wasn't satisfied with the stock
Prism photos. You DID read the review, didn't you?


Only very quickly! SOrry! No time.

Look, Jay, I write these reviews because it gives an opportunity to play
with stuff that I wouldn't buy [...]


Ok, ok. I understand. No problems.




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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/18/2014 12:25 PM, Ty Ford wrote:
Not to mention their other 'give-aways' - that Eventide UltraChannel strip
they put up last month for free is really nice!
david


I think others had that giveaway. I saw it as a way to discover who the web
was reading. Love to see the data on that.


Right. They sent the offer to several web forums as well as to selected
individuals, each with a different discount code. This allowed them to
track where it was most effective to place advertising, or to solicit
feedback on their products.




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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

Mike Rivers :

On 8/18/2014 12:25 PM, Ty Ford wrote:
Not to mention their other 'give-aways' - that Eventide UltraChannel

strip
they put up last month for free is really nice!
david


I think others had that giveaway. I saw it as a way to discover who the

web
was reading. Love to see the data on that.


Right. They sent the offer to several web forums as well as to selected
individuals, each with a different discount code. This allowed them to
track where it was most effective to place advertising, or to solicit
feedback on their products.





I suppose it wasn't a bad marketing move any way you cut it. Since I don't
have a lot of 'fora time' these days, I'm glad I still caught it from Tape
Op.


david
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 8/16/14, 5:15 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
stuff removed

Good review.

I am wondering if you or any other pro in the group has heard the Apollo
Twin from UAD. I have other UAD devices and would like to add a Twin to
my Late 2013 MacBook Pro setup. I would use it primarily video playback
and maybe for additional audio on video shoots. I have been recording
my vidcast audio thru my Mbox2 Pro with a Heil PR40 but the vocals sound
a bit coarse to me and the Mbox2 Pro is getting a bit long in the tooth.
(old)

The SOS review of the Twin was good but did not go into enough detail on
the sound of the convertors. The converters in my Apollo Quad sound
good without being too analytical.

Glad some of the old gang is still here.

Take it EZ,
Robert A. Ober
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 9/7/2014 3:23 PM, Nobobdy wrote:

I am wondering if you or any other pro in the group has heard the Apollo
Twin from UAD.


Not here. I get a lot of promises for review units but it's like pulling
teeth to get them. The manufacturers put their marketing resources to
heavy traffic web sites and magazines rather than personal web pages
that get maybe 20 visitors on a good day.

If all of you told all your friends to click on my web page a lot, maybe
I'd get a higher "traffic rating" and would be able to get more famous.



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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 9/7/2014 3:23 PM, Nobobdy wrote:

I am wondering if you or any other pro in the group has heard the Apollo
Twin from UAD.


Not here. I get a lot of promises for review units but it's like pulling
teeth to get them. The manufacturers put their marketing resources to
heavy traffic web sites and magazines rather than personal web pages
that get maybe 20 visitors on a good day.

If all of you told all your friends to click on my web page a lot, maybe
I'd get a higher "traffic rating" and would be able to get more famous.



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Good point. I go there and do that, but probably not often enough.

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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 9/7/2014 11:55 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 9/7/2014 3:23 PM, Nobobdy wrote:

I am wondering if you or any other pro in the group has heard the Apollo
Twin from UAD.


Not here. I get a lot of promises for review units but it's like pulling
teeth to get them. The manufacturers put their marketing resources to
heavy traffic web sites and magazines rather than personal web pages
that get maybe 20 visitors on a good day.

If all of you told all your friends to click on my web page a lot, maybe
I'd get a higher "traffic rating" and would be able to get more famous.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


Thanks Mike, I'll make a point to click your web page more often. I also
just signed up by email to follow your blog posts. Maybe that will help.

Tim Sprout
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Prism Lyra 1 USB Audio Interface Review Posted

On 9/8/2014 7:28 PM, Tim Sprout wrote:
Thanks Mike, I'll make a point to click your web page more often. I also
just signed up by email to follow your blog posts. Maybe that will help.


I don't add new stuff very often, but you'll get an e-mail when I do.
When I get up to 900 visitors a month, I can get a press pass to CES
(they used to give me one until they made that rule). There, for me the
only difference between going as press and going as a regular flunky is
that press gets a free sandwich for lunch if you get there in time.

I've been thinking about writing an article on how I test things (get
the numbers) and how you can make those same tests on your own gear with
not much more than what you already have as part of your regular studio
gear.

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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