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Ron C[_2_] Ron C[_2_] is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

The desk I normally use for my Halloween stuff seems to have been
taken out by one of my cats. [Long uninteresting story]
Anyway, I pulled out my old Mackie CR 1604 vlz to fill in.
Seems that board suffers from that ribbon cable oxidation
problem that I seem to recall was common to them.

Two questions:
[1] Can I still get replacement ribbon cables for that board?
( ...and if so , where? )

[2] I'm thinking about getting a Mackie ProFX16v2 to fill in
for the dead desk and the sick CR 1604...

Has Mackie solved the ribbon cable problem in the new board?
~~
Note: I'm mostly retired from sound stuff, and just do simple
hobby level holiday stuff.

--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

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geoff geoff is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 3/11/2018 4:16 PM, Ron C wrote:
The desk I normally use for my Halloween stuff seems to have been
taken out by one of my cats. [Long uninteresting story]
Anyway, I pulled out my old Mackie CR 1604 vlz to fill in.
Seems that board suffers from that ribbon cable oxidation
problem that I seem to recall was common to them.

Two questions:
[1] Can I still get replacement ribbon cables for that board?
( ...and if so , where? )

[2] I'm thinking about getting a Mackie ProFX16v2 to fill in
for the dead desk and the sick CR 1604...

Has Mackie solved the ribbon cable problem in the new board?
~~
Note: I'm mostly retired from sound stuff, and just do simple
hobby level holiday stuff.



If the problem is tarnishing of header plugs/sockets, a squirt of Caig
Deoxit and a few in-out insertions should fix it.

geoff
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/2/2018 11:16 PM, Ron C wrote:
Seems that board suffers from that ribbon cable oxidation
problem that I seem to recall was common to them.


Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
console. Still, connectors can get cruddy with age and non-use, but they
usually respond to a shot of contact cleaner and a little exercise
(disconnect and re-connect the connection a few times). Don't forget
that ribbon cables have connectors on both ends. One end is usually easy
to get to, the other end sometimes is buried.

Can I still get replacement ribbon cables for that board?


Not from Mackie, but the connectors and cable are standard parts, so it
would be possible to have new ones made if you really wanted to rescue
the console. But ribbon cables aren't the only thing that can go wrong.

Has Mackie solved the ribbon cable problem in the new board?


The Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ. The new mixers are completely made in China, so if there's a
chronic problem (and I haven't heard of one, but then I don't keep close
tabs on them) it's surely not the same problem that they had 20 years ago.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

Mike Rivers wrote:



Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
console.


** I saw a few CR1604s that were affected by the bad ribbon cable issue.

A new set of cables was the only reliable cure - one could use spray cleaner and reseat the plugs ( using bench vise) but that never proved permanent.



..... Phil
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

Phil Allison wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
console.


** I saw a few CR1604s that were affected by the bad ribbon cable issue.

A new set of cables was the only reliable cure - one could use spray cleaner and reseat the plugs ( using bench vise) but that never proved permanent.


The problem is that the headers were made by one manufacturer and the cable
sockets were made by another and the profiles on the two weren't quite the
same, so the contact surface area was minimal.

But after all this time I don't remember who made each. If it were me, I
would just buy AMP sockets and crimp them on the existing cable.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/3/2018 7:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
console.


** I saw a few CR1604s that were affected by the bad ribbon cable issue.

A new set of cables was the only reliable cure - one could use spray cleaner and reseat the plugs ( using bench vise) but that never proved permanent.


The problem is that the headers were made by one manufacturer and the cable
sockets were made by another and the profiles on the two weren't quite the
same, so the contact surface area was minimal.

But after all this time I don't remember who made each. If it were me, I
would just buy AMP sockets and crimp them on the existing cable.
--scott

Thanks Scott, that sounds like something worth trying.
I got a lot of years out of the unit, so believe I've gotten my
money's worth .. but not ready to toss it in the trash yet.

Looks like I'll probably get the ProFX16v2 to fill in.
~~
Enough for now.
~~
Thanks to all the folks in the thread for your input.

--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/3/2018 5:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/2/2018 11:16 PM, Ron C wrote:
Seems that board suffers from that ribbon cable oxidation
problem that I seem to recall was common to them.


Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
console. Still, connectors can get cruddy with age and non-use, but they
usually respond to a shot of contact cleaner and a little exercise
(disconnect and re-connect the connection a few times). Don't forget
that ribbon cables have connectors on both ends. One end is usually easy
to get to, the other end sometimes is buried.

Can I still get replacement ribbon cables for that board?


Not from Mackie, but the connectors and cable are standard parts, so it
would be possible to have new ones made if you really wanted to rescue
the console. But ribbon cables aren't the only thing that can go wrong.

Has Mackie solved the ribbon cable problem in the new board?


The Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ. The new mixers are completely made in China, so if there's a
chronic problem (and I haven't heard of one, but then I don't keep close
tabs on them) it's surely not the same problem that they had 20 years ago.


I picked up a ProFX8v2 .. wow, this thing is a toy at best. When you said:
"the Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ" I had no idea they had slipped this much.
Seems all of their "Pro" series is junk but they have a " ...VLZ4" series
that may not be junk.
I may skip Mackie and go with a Soundcraft LX7ii 16 as a replacement
for my old CR 1604.
--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/10/2018 10:00 PM, Ron C wrote:
I picked up a ProFX8v2 .. wow, this thing is a toy at best. When you said:
"the Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ" I had no idea they had slipped this much.


The ProFX series is the new version of the CFX series, which dates back
to the time when I was working for Mackie. It was the low priced "do
everything" mixer for the small band that just needed a mixer. It was
functional but not up to the audio or technical quality of the VLZ Pro
series of the time. But there were always customers for an inexpensive
mixer with built-in effects, so they continued that design.

A VLZ4 is probably still OK. There's no good reason for them to monkey
much with a decent design. Half a dozen or so years ago, Mackie started
using some custom designed ICs rather than standard parts, and came
along after that, so the VLZ4 might use them. It's probably not a bad
thing other than that you don't really know what's under the hood.

I don't know anything about the current Soundcraft line, but as far as I
know, they've maintained a decent reputation, and the LX7 looks like a
decent design.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 4:00 PM, Ron C wrote:



I picked up a ProFX8v2 .. wow, this thing is a toy at best. When you said:
"the Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ" I had no idea they had slipped this much.
Seems all of their "Pro" series is junk but they have a " ...VLZ4" series
that may not be junk.
I may skip Mackie and go with a Soundcraft LX7ii 16 as a replacement
for my old CR 1604.


I have an Allen & Heath ZED something-or-other that is very well built.

geoff
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Dr2 Dr2 is offline
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 12:40 AM, geoff wrote:
On 11/11/2018 4:00 PM, Ron C wrote:



I picked up a ProFX8v2 .. wow, this thing is a toy at best. When you
said:
"the Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
1604 VLZ" I had no idea they had slipped this much.
Seems all of their "Pro" series is junk but they have a " ...VLZ4" series
that may not be junk.
I may skip Mackie and go with a Soundcraft LX7ii 16 as a replacement
for my old CR 1604.


I have an Allen & Heath ZED something-or-other that is very well built.

geoff


Still getting the hang of this new-fangled newsgroup reader thingy. I
think I may have private emailed one or two of you while making some
mistakes...sorry. Let's see if this one gets posted in the right place..

I haven't even looked at Rec.Audio.Pro in over a decade..but trying to
get back in the habit....even though it's not what it used to be. I
used to be involved way back when we did our first RAP CD compilation.

If I had a small gig like what you're discussing (being just a hobbyist
these days)... I don't think I'd take that kind of gear anymore. Too
much weight, and oh-so-many things to go wrong. Cables/connectors
getting corroded just sitting around, etc.

I'd grab a USB audio interface with 8 mic-inputs (like a Presonus
AudioBox or a Focusrite Scarlet) and a laptop and go do the gig with the
included software mixer. These days, the first generation interfaces
like those are nearly give-aways. Either you already have one sitting
in a closet or know someone who does.

Granted, you still have to haul amps and speakers, but basic software
plugins would handle the mixing console, compressors on every channel,
EQs, effects, monitor mixes, etc...

I know a few guys in town that do the small gigs this way, and they love
it. Plus, so many of them have the ability to mix on their ipads or
phones, it's all changed.



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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 3:33 AM, Dr2 wrote:
I'd grab a USB audio interface with 8 mic-inputs (like a Presonus
AudioBox or a Focusrite Scarlet) and a laptop and go do the gig with the
included software mixer.**** These days, the first generation interfaces
like those are nearly give-aways.


Whether this will work for you depends a lot on the kind of gigs you do,
and also what your generation is. Ron has been around for a long time,
and while I know he keeps up with digital things, I know that his work
at least used to be primarily with acoustic acts. That's what I do and I
find it next to impossible to work with one of today's digital consoles,
and would never consider mixing a live show with a mouse.

A modern digital console works really well for bands that are reasonably
well rehearsed, can keep fairly constant levels on stage, and are
playing the kind of music that doesn't change too much during a song.
You can have a preset for every song in your set list to accommodate
different singers, instrument changes, and effects, but with the acts
that I work with, if I'm not constantly making small changes, things
fall apart pretty quickly. Someone who grew up playing computer games
might have the ability to handle that pretty well, but that's not me.

Somehow, I think that Ron is a hands-on kind of guy.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 7:28 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/11/2018 3:33 AM, Dr2 wrote:
I'd grab a USB audio interface with 8 mic-inputs (like a Presonus
AudioBox or a Focusrite Scarlet) and a laptop and go do the gig with
the included software mixer.**** These days, the first generation
interfaces like those are nearly give-aways.


Whether this will work for you depends a lot on the kind of gigs you do,
and also what your generation is. Ron has been around for a long time,
and while I know he keeps up with digital things, I know that his work
at least used to be primarily with acoustic acts. That's what I do and I
find it next to impossible to work with one of today's digital consoles,
and would never consider mixing a live show with a mouse.

A modern digital console works really well for bands that are reasonably
well rehearsed, can keep fairly constant levels on stage, and are
playing the kind of music that doesn't change too much during a song.
You can have a preset for every song in your set list to accommodate
different singers, instrument changes, and effects, but with the acts
that I work with, if I'm not constantly making small changes, things
fall apart pretty quickly. Someone who grew up playing computer games
might have the ability to handle that pretty well, but that's not me.

Somehow, I think that Ron is a hands-on kind of guy.

Mike, I think you've nailed my profile/MO. I have no problem
mixing stuff down on a computer, but for me, live sound
tends to need knobs and faders. :-) [YMMV]

Thanks for all the input.

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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 7:25 AM, Ron C wrote:
On 11/11/2018 7:28 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/11/2018 3:33 AM, Dr2 wrote:
I'd grab a USB audio interface with 8 mic-inputs (like a Presonus
AudioBox or a Focusrite Scarlet) and a laptop and go do the gig with
the included software mixer. These days, the first generation
interfaces like those are nearly give-aways.


Whether this will work for you depends a lot on the kind of gigs you
do, and also what your generation is. Ron has been around for a long
time, and while I know he keeps up with digital things, I know that
his work at least used to be primarily with acoustic acts. That's what
I do and I find it next to impossible to work with one of today's
digital consoles, and would never consider mixing a live show with a
mouse.

A modern digital console works really well for bands that are
reasonably well rehearsed, can keep fairly constant levels on stage,
and are playing the kind of music that doesn't change too much during
a song. You can have a preset for every song in your set list to
accommodate different singers, instrument changes, and effects, but
with the acts that I work with, if I'm not constantly making small
changes, things fall apart pretty quickly. Someone who grew up playing
computer games might have the ability to handle that pretty well, but
that's not me.

Somehow, I think that Ron is a hands-on kind of guy.

Mike, I think you've nailed my profile/MO. I have no problem
mixing stuff down on a computer, but for me, live sound
tends to need knobs and faders. :-) [YMMV]

Thanks for all the input.

You're quite right. I was thinking more about the set-it-and-leave-it
type act which just needs a couple tweaks in soundcheck, and then can be
left alone for the most part.
I thought about bringing along a control surface for the more hands-on
type act, but then I've gotten back up to the point where I might just
as well bring a small analog mixer.


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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 12/11/2018 3:25 AM, Ron C wrote:


Mike, I think you've nailed my profile/MO. I have no problem
mixing stuff down on a computer, but for me, live sound
tends to need knobs and faders. :-)* [YMMV]

Thanks for all the input.


I've got a digital mixer that has knobs and faders, and switches ....

geoff
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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 4:29 PM, geoff wrote:
I've got a digital mixer that has knobs and faders, and switches* ....


But not enough of either! With the exception of the faders (which on
most digital mixers can have multiple functions) you have to push some
buttons before the knob that you have available does what you want. One
moment it can be a pan, another moment it can be the frequency of an
equalizer peak, and then the next moment it's the boost or cut at that
frequency. and a minute later it can be the level of a channel in one
player's monitor mix.

Digital mixers can do everything that analog mixers can, and then some,
but other than adjusting levels in a single mix, they're slower to
operate and require more concentration on operating, and distract from
listening to what you or the players are doing. The reason why "the
really big shows" love them is because they can preset and recall
everything and all they have to do is little tweaks. We little guys who
do festivals with a completely different band every half hour can't take
advantage of those tools and have to work by the seat of our pants
without one hand tied behind our back.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


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Default Old Mackie CR 1604 vlz .... ribbon cable problems?

On 11/11/2018 4:44 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/11/2018 4:29 PM, geoff wrote:
I've got a digital mixer that has knobs and faders, and switches* ....


But not enough of either! With the exception of the faders (which on
most digital mixers can have multiple functions) you have to push some
buttons before the knob that you have available does what you want. One
moment it can be a pan, another moment it can be the frequency of an
equalizer peak, and then the next moment it's the boost or cut at that
frequency. and a minute later it can be the level of a channel in one
player's monitor mix.

Digital mixers can do everything that analog mixers can, and then some,
but other than adjusting levels in a single mix, they're slower to
operate and require more concentration on operating, and distract from
listening to what you or the players are doing. The reason why "the
really big shows" love them is because they can preset and recall
everything and all they have to do is little tweaks. We little guys who
do festivals with a completely different band every half hour can't take
advantage of those tools and have to work by the seat of our pants
without one hand tied behind our back.


Another thing with digital mixers, if you don't use it frequently you'll
[well, at least I ] would need to spend a bunch of time refreshing one's
self with all the layers and sequences and such when you pull it out.
One can figure out most analog boards by just looking at them.
Familiarity results in quicker optimization and fewer errors.
~~
I spent a lot of time in an all acoustic [um, in theory] venue that did a
new band every half hour, no set lists, and frequently didn't even know
how many band members .. very much seat of the pants.

....as usual YMMV
--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--
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