Hi All... I'm going to be building a project studio in a section of my
basement. I've posted the layout he

http://stuff.wso.net/images/studio/studio4.gif

Everything you see on the outside in grey is solid poured concrete
from floor to ceiling height. The floor is also poured concrete but
will be a "fake" pergo type hardwood floor.

I have many questions but I'd like to just hear your opinions on the
layout itself.

Thanks
jt

and the height dimention? did I miss it somewhere?

laters
tuna

jt,

I'd like to just hear your opinions on the layout itself.

Besides the good answers you're sure to get here, I suggest you also post in
some of the web forums that focus on acoustics. One is run by John Sayers at
www.johnlsayers.com, and I moderate one with studio designer Wes Lachot and
construction expert Rod Gervais at www.recording.org.

--Ethan

Thanks for responding, tuna.

8 ft ceilings but there is some ductwork that comes down
below 8 ft in areas. I will be putting in a drop ceiling. Any
recomendation on 2 x 2 ceiling tiles for studio purposes?

jt



On 20 Sep 2003 10:44:36 GMT, (LLLindblad) wrote:

and the height dimention? did I miss it somewhere?

laters
tuna

I will, thank you.

jt


On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:54:03 -0400, "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner
dot com wrote:

jt,

I'd like to just hear your opinions on the layout itself.

Besides the good answers you're sure to get here, I suggest you also post in
some of the web forums that focus on acoustics. One is run by John Sayers at
www.johnlsayers.com, and I moderate one with studio designer Wes Lachot and
construction expert Rod Gervais at www.recording.org.

--Ethan

"Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message ...
snip
and I moderate one with studio designer Wes Lachot and
construction expert Rod Gervais at www.recording.org.

--Ethan

that reminds me, just about everything i wrote on that other thread is
stuff i learned from when wes built my studio.

jt wrote in message . ..
Hi All... I'm going to be building a project studio in a section of my
basement. I've posted the layout he

http://stuff.wso.net/images/studio/studio4.gif

Everything you see on the outside in grey is solid poured concrete
from floor to ceiling height. The floor is also poured concrete but
will be a "fake" pergo type hardwood floor.

I have many questions but I'd like to just hear your opinions on the
layout itself.

Thanks
jt

The walls between rooms look awfully thin. Are you doing any
mechanical iso between walls, floors, ceiling, etc? If you have
folks upstairs, the sound will leak right thru the basement ceiling if
you don't do "floated" construction (I know a guy who didn't correctly
float his walls/ceiling in a downstairs studio/upstairs apartment, and
he has to watch his volume at night so as not to disturb the renters).
Looks like you will need some bass trapping in the 90 degree corners.
Otherwise, the dimensions look workable, with acoustic treatment to
correct the room modes, etc. If you are cramped for space and don't
want to use double walls between rooms, Owens-Corning makes a sound
iso "split stud" that is the same dimension as a 2x6, only one side
floats from the other. Floating a concrete slab (your basement floor)
into separate sections for each room is simple (but not easy)...all
you need is a full-depth cut concrete saw and some silicone sealer.

RP

Hi All... I'm going to be building a project studio in a section of my
basement. I've posted the layout he

Depending on what you plan to record, and what part of the recording process
you plan to take part in, you might want to think about increasing the size of
the control room. 13'X11" will get awfully small awfully quickly. While
there's nothing like a big live room for big live room sounds, there's nothing
like a small control room for closely spaced modes, lousy bass response, stale
air and lack of elbow room. If you need a large recording space for recording
large groups, you probably want a large control room for mixdown sessions too.
Just something to consider- from a guy who used to have a way-too-small control
room.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

The walls between rooms look awfully thin. Are you doing any
mechanical iso between walls, floors, ceiling, etc?

I hadn't planned on it, but the more I read, the more I think I will
do this.

My brother worked for a plastics company and has a tuckload full of
plastic. This stuff is called HMW (High Molecular Weight) plastic, it
is not sold to the public. It is 1/4 in think and weighs 1.25 lbs per
square foot. This is more dense than 1/8 in thick MLV (Mass loaded
vinyl) and it it is FREE where MVL is $1.75 per sq. ft.

I'm getting an acoustic properties spec sheet faxed to me this week.

I was going to put this on all walls, then drywall over that leaving
the space in between as dead-air.


folks upstairs, the sound will leak right thru the basement ceiling if
you don't do "floated" construction (I know a guy who didn't correctly
float his walls/ceiling in a downstairs studio/upstairs apartment, and
he has to watch his volume at night so as not to disturb the renters).

How can I do floated if I need to put in a drop ceiling. Is that
possible?

Looks like you will need some bass trapping in the 90 degree corners.

Yep. And it was suggested that I do 30 degree cornors, not 45 for the
front of the control room. Is this something I should worry about?

Otherwise, the dimensions look workable, with acoustic treatment to
correct the room modes, etc. If you are cramped for space and don't
want to use double walls between rooms, Owens-Corning makes a sound
iso "split stud" that is the same dimension as a 2x6, only one side
floats from the other.

I'll look into that.

Floating a concrete slab (your basement floor)
into separate sections for each room is simple (but not easy)...all
you need is a full-depth cut concrete saw and some silicone sealer.

1. Can't do that, I have ini-floor heating (water running in tubes).
2. That is more than I need to do for the goals of this studio, IMO.

Thank you! Your input is really appreciated.



RP

Thanks Joe, really appreciate your opinion.

Maybe I will bump the control room out another foot or so?

I can see your point. The live room will get its most work as a band
practice room. When recording it will probably be just a drum room. My
goal is not to create a "great" sounding live space. While I may get
lucky, I doubt it. Probably I'll be doing lots of close miking and
adding artificial verb in the mix.

Main goals are soundproofing the studio from the rest of the house and
between each of the studio rooms and clear sight lines from mixing
position to performers. I do not expect to be capturing much rooms
sound on any recording I make. I'll be mostly doing modern rock with
real drums, bass, guitar, vocals and occasional keyboards. Rarely will
I record more than one performer live other than for demo purposes.

All rooms will have air conditioning and air returns connected to the
main house system. This means I'll be at the mercy of the 1st floor
conditions (as far as when the HVAC system turns on and off). I'll
just have to deal with that I guess. The HVAC unit is brand new, is
on the other side of the basement and enclosed. So I don't expect
sound issues with it unit itself.

The house HVAC has two zones 1st floor and 2nd floor. The basement
floor is heated with in-floor water radiant heating. I *may* be able
to get a 3rd zone setup for the basement AC, but it might be cost and
ergonomically prohibitive (it might not fit).

I mentioned elsewhere that there will be no huge mixing console. I do
almost everything direct to hard disk. I'll have a control surface as
the interface to the software, a flat panel monitor, keyboard, mouse,
etc. As well as a small mixer and some effects for headphone
monitoring purposes and peak limiting when tracking.

But no 48 track console to take up major space.

Thanks for listening...

jt




On 20 Sep 2003 22:29:36 GMT, (EganMedia) wrote:

Hi All... I'm going to be building a project studio in a section of my
basement. I've posted the layout he

Depending on what you plan to record, and what part of the recording process
you plan to take part in, you might want to think about increasing the size of
the control room. 13'X11" will get awfully small awfully quickly. While
there's nothing like a big live room for big live room sounds, there's nothing
like a small control room for closely spaced modes, lousy bass response, stale
air and lack of elbow room. If you need a large recording space for recording
large groups, you probably want a large control room for mixdown sessions too.
Just something to consider- from a guy who used to have a way-too-small control
room.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

Kurt,

just about everything i wrote on that other thread is stuff i learned from
when wes built my studio.

Very cool - Wes is truly da' man!

--Ethan

jt wrote in message . ..

How can I do floated if I need to put in a drop ceiling. Is that
possible?

If you don't do some sort of float of your studio floor, floating the
ceiling would be near worthless. The concrete "shell" of your
basement will transmit a lot of sound, especially LF, negating the
effect of floating the other components. If that plastic sheeting
will function acoustically the same as the limp mass vinyl, I'd
suggest a separation layer of the stuff (1 or 2 layers) under your
subfloor layer. The studio walls could then be iso'd from the
subfloor by a strip of 1 or 2 thicknesses of plastic sheeting on top
of the subfloor to mount your wall plates (flat 2x4 or 2x6's). In
floating, it is important that you not use nails or screws to
penetrate the isolation layers; therefore you would have to glue the
wall plates to the plastic sheeting.

An isolated framed ceiling with a few layers of sheetrock and
insulation between the upstairs subfloor and the studio ceiling would
be a better ceiling solution than a drop ceiling, but it might not be
practical in your case. As far as floating a drop ceiling goes, I can
think of a few things that you might need:

1. A completely airtight seal (The individual panels are airtight to
the drop ceiling frame, and the frame itself is airtight), plus a drop
panel that has a high isolation factor. I think there are a few
companies that make sound-rated drop ceilings.

2. Plenty of insulation between the drop panels and the upstairs
subfloor.

3. If the drop ceiling frame is hung by wire hangers from the
subfloor above, then you'd need to isolate the drop ceiling frame from
the studio walls, probably with an airtight glued seal using strips of
your limp mass vinyl substitute.

If you're going to the trouble of full floating isolation, every
element is critical, and the smallest leak can undo most of what
you're trying to achieve. This might be too much effort for what
you're trying to do here. I'd say the critical element in a "lesser"
degree of isolation is to isolate the concrete basement "shell" from
the floor and walls, to the greatest extent possible within your
budget.

RP

I've continued this discussoion he
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=723

Thanks everyone!
jt


On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:13:22 -0400, jt wrote:

Hi All... I'm going to be building a project studio in a section of my
basement. I've posted the layout he

http://stuff.wso.net/images/studio/studio4.gif

Everything you see on the outside in grey is solid poured concrete
from floor to ceiling height. The floor is also poured concrete but
will be a "fake" pergo type hardwood floor.

I have many questions but I'd like to just hear your opinions on the
layout itself.

Thanks
jt

jt wrote:

My goal is not to create a "great" sounding live space.

That sounds like a pretty reasonable goal to achieve. I know lots of
people who were successful at not creating a great-sounding live space,
without even trying not to create a great-sounding live space.

Seriously though, I think the basic floor plan looks pretty good. The
walls probably need to be thicker, especially between the live room and
your "game room." Since you're already on a concrete foundation, why
not built the walls out of cinder block? That'll give you some
isolation.

But your real problem is going to be your ceiling, obviously. First of
all, 8 feet is not very tall. I have 7 foot ceilings which really
sucks, but you've got duct work hanging down which sucks ergonomically
AND from and acoustics and isolation standpoint. The steel ducts
INSIDE my sheetrock ceiling tend to rattle with bass guitar and other
loud noises, so you can imagine what you might be dealing with. And of
course those ducts lead out of your studio and will carry sound in and
out with them. Is this duct work feeding the studio, or is it feeding
the rooms above the studio? If it's feeding upstairs, you're in a
pickle. You really ought to reroute the ductwork so it doesn't enter
the studio at all. Otherwise your sound isolation is absolutely down
the drain. If they're only feeding the studio itself, that's more
manageable. You can get resilient ducting that doesn't rattle or carry
sound longitudinally (though it does allow sound to pass right through
it). This would be good to use outside the studio on the way to the AC
unit, as well as inside the studio. There are other things you can do
that take up more space but don't cost too much, involving baffled
ducts built out of sheetrock. But they take up more space.

The plastic your brother's giving you sounds great except for one
thing: Is it flame retardant? If not, putting it in your walls may be
not only illegal, but an unwarranted danger to yourself and your
family.

Also, the amp iso booth in the corner of your control room will
probably prove less-than-useful because it's so close to the control
room and is bound to bleed into your monitoring environment.


ulysses