[AZ1]

Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.
Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.
In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.
Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.
Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.
The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then
blow your fuses.
Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.
Glass can also be melted again and re-used.
Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.
Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier.
Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.
Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.
Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.
Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

[MooseFET]

On Apr 4, 4:37 am, AZ1 wrote:
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
Tubes are hot. You burn yourself on them. Transistors are very cool.

That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.

What you mean "we" paleface? Are you sure the reason isn't that they
look like little phallic symbols.

Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

If vacuum is clean, why do they make vacuum cleaners? Answer me that!

Tubes use heaters.

Yes but these heaters are run on 6.3V which is the squareroot of 39.69
and therefor obviously evil.



In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room,

Smart people move to a warm climate.


and we need to burn less wood

When the tubes light the house on fire, a lot of wood gets burned.

or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.

Very few house burn coal for heat any more. Coal burning is a dirty
nasty way to make power much like tubes are a dirty nasty way to make
music.


In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.

The same is true of transistors. If you lived in a place that was
about 5 degrees K, you'd have to heat the transistors in your radio.
We all live in a warmer climate than that, even the foolish ones who
live in the north.


So tubes are enviro friendly.

Tubes cause puppies to die.

Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors,

Those holes let the good sound pass through without effort. Tubes
contain magnetic materials. These lead to distortion.

but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.

They suffocate the sound.

Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs,

You mean "when" not "if". Tubes are all sealed up so you can't use
Draino on them to keep them clear.

[....]
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them,

No they don't. They light up with blue things crawling around inside
and then there is a bright spray inside finally, the side walls melt
and suck in.

[Eeyore]

AZ1 wrote:

Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

Big mistake. There's plenty of crap in there. And the amount of crap increases with use.

Graham

[Patrick Turner]

AZ1 wrote:

Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.

Er, you'd be wrong. At least every second woman I've met has an icy
heart.
Dunno about you, but I find cold sheilas to be completely unattractive.

However, tubes seem quite able to carefully preserve the warmth of
an acoustic musical event. Some say tubes add warmth, an artifact,
and this can be excessive, like a boring cloying lover.....

Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

But not so simple inside when you examine the messiness of the
cathode emission and the graceless way the electrons hit the anode.


Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.

So more pollution from coal burning power stations then occurs elsewhere
out of sight,
out of mind, and the resultant acid rain
kills trees in foreign nations.

But at least you may as well use a tube amp to help warm your room in
winter.
It only helps. My 300 watt amps draw about 550W for each channel
and thus give 1,100 watts of heating, and for someone in a house my size
in a
NY winter, its nowhere near enough heat to stop them freezin their balls
off.

A 5050 amp would only make 200 watts, so its like having only 5 x 40watt
light bulbs on,
and on many nights, I'd have that many lights on. Otherwise I trip over
in the dark.


In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.

Rubbish, tubes operate with 900C cathodes and operating a tube in
Antartica
uses barely more power than in Jakata.
Tubes are anything but enviro friendly; they are a pollution menace.
However, tube gear is owned now by only 0.01% of the world's audio
listeners,
so they represent a tiny fraction of a large problem.
My house where I live and a house mate the electricity consumption is
an average of about 1 kilowatt hour per hour all day and one wonders
where
it all goes, but life would be uncomfortable below this level.
Using my tube gear is a very small % of the problem, and hot water
and heating are the main problems.


Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.

But in fact the vacuum inside a tube isn't all that clean.
Lots of dirty big gas molecules whizzing around, and they hasten the
tubes'
ultimate demise.

Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.


I'll agree here, service is easier with tube gear but seldom does a tube
replacement
cure a fault; its so often some other darn thing causing a problem.
But if you damage an OPT or PT, expect the repair bill to be high...
The Chinese made new amp may cost a lot less than a tube amp repair job.

Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.

Ambience light, but reading beside 813 tubes isn't for eveyone.
Most tubes most ppl use hardly give any lighting effects.


The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then
blow your fuses.

How many amps have you repaired?

Tube melt-down can be quite a disaster, and can occur before a fuse
blows.


Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.

I have a friend who knows each electron flowing from cathode to anode by
name.


Glass can also be melted again and re-used.

But an EL34 uses far more resources than a power transistor.

Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.

Then how come virtually no tube factories exist in western developed
nations?

OK, WE still makes 300B in the US, but they want $300 each.
Where oh where is any sign they are cheap technology?


Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier.

It depends where you shop. A 40w+40w stereo amp can be had via direct
marketting
ex hong kong for usd $500. The same watts from Jolida in stores here
costs
$3,000, and so if the chinese perfect the bypassing of western middle
men,
who makes any profit?

Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.

At least I agree with you here....

Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.

Have you seen trans-brothers? they are the latest thing in China...

Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.

Wrong, a top cap makes a tube more expensive.

Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

The Russians developed tubes so big they are about 8 feet tall,
and have halves that unbolt, for service to the cathode and grid
and they are good for a very large rock concert indeed.

In the bad old dark days of the Soviet era, such multi kilowatt tubes
were
used for RF transmissions, often as jamming signals over the top of
western nation
broadcasts because they didn't have rock concerts.
If the Politbureau knew someone they didn't like much,
they'd lead him down to the transmitter undegoing service, and into
the dark of an opened up triode. Without warning they'd
bolt up the tube, apply vacuum and power, and transmit the poor bugger.
Fzzz, and your'e gone, no more politiaski mistakzi.

Patrick Turner.

[Patrick Turner]

Eeyore wrote:

AZ1 wrote:

Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

Big mistake. There's plenty of crap in there. And the amount of crap increases with use.

Nothing is pure, not even the most genteel virgin you'll ever find.
She's full of tricky plans, and a mish mash of ideas that are mainly
illogical.

And the amount of crap increases with use.

Patrick Turner.

Graham

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 4, 7:37 am, AZ1 wrote:
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.
Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.
In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.
Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.
Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.
The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then
blow your fuses.
Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.
Glass can also be melted again and re-used.
Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.
Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier.
Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.
Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.
Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.
Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they are great-
good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the same way that a 1968 VW
Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW Beetle.

That they can sometimes sound well is an accidental pleasure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
oups.com

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

[tubegarden]

Hi RATs!

I have some tubes and their often suggested fellow travelers in audio
circuits. Laying around, all over the house.

I used to build audio circuits, out of thin ideas! Some even sounded
OK! (Some never actually sounded ... just got abandoned in process)

Now I scarcely change a tube or speaker. But, still do, occasionally.
Whoopee!

Sometimes a whole amp! Wowwee Zowwee!!!

Much smarter friends of mine have died.

I just listen and type a bit into these cesspools of the world's
imagination.

Sigh.

Happy Ears!
Al

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 4, 2:07 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

oups.com

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

When one is immortal (30 and under), that makes no nevermind anyway.
if you have gotten too crusty over the years to understand that most
basic premise-of-youth... or even the memory of it... that is an
unhappy condition.

My 1969 Westie would do a sustained 65 with no troubles back in the
day. Of course, I drove it as if I were an Aztec sacrifice exposed on
the front bumper (i.e. with great caution and care). Much as I drive
our 1987 Westie wasserboxer now. The 1999 Winnie with all its bells
and whistles (AC/Front Engine/FWD/Air-bags/ABS/Traction and so forth)
is far more inviting of complacency.

And, we maintain both the Westie and the Winnie to have fun, no other
reason whatsoever. They are hardly necessities. Much as I keep,
experiment with, maintain and repair my tube equipment as it comes and
goes. Also hardly necessities.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:07:21 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

Here, I thought he meant "fun to work on", not as much "fun to drive".

Then again, I once had a '70s-ish Ford Econoline van, with the straignt
6 under the doghouse. I had a neighbor at the time who was a car guy,
and one of the funnest things we did was go about 70 on I-494 with the
doghouse off and him diddling with the motor. :-)

It was very noisy. )()(

Cheers!
Rich

[krw]

In article , says...
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.

Nah, tubes are hot. You'll burn yourself. Laptops are nice and warm
(warming my hands as I read).

--
Keith

[Tom Bruhns]

On Apr 4, 4:37 am, AZ1 wrote:

Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.

Guess you haven't been using ceramic external anode valves...

Glass can also be melted again and re-used.

Oh, yes...that's a fun thing to do with valves. Connect filament
transformer to 833 bottle. Connect -200V--+200V variable power supply
between the grid and the filament transformer center tap. Connect
3000V power supply between the plate and the filament transformer
center tap. Apply power to the filament transformer; allow the
filament to warm up to normal operating temperature. Turn on the grid
power supply and adjust it so the grid is -200V relative to the
filament. Turn on the plate power supply. Monitor the current in the
plate supply. Make the filament voltage more positive, stopping when
the plate current reaches 0.3 amps. If nothing spectacular happens
within fifteen minutes or so, crank up the grid voltage a bit more
till the plate current reaches 0.4 amps. Continue in this fashion
till something happens. Observe the new shape of the glass envelope.
You've done the first part (the "melted" part). Now try to figure out
the "re-used" part for this sample.

Cheers,
Tom

[Stanislaw Flatto]

AZ1 wrote:

[snip]

Can add another old time advantage.
Working in aerocraft industry have seen opened radio equipment on planes
with the good glass envelopes smashed with a hammer.
On querry got an answer: It was a time for replacement so the checking
worker made sure they will be replaced!
Simple?!

Stanislaw

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Peter Wieck" wrote

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

No great surprise I'd have to say. Maybe some ppl find scary things 'fun' ? Like
parachuting, bungee jumping and rock-climbing for example. The adrenalin rush
and subsequent hit can be very enjoyable.


Graham

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 4, 3:01 pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:07:21 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

Here, I thought he meant "fun to work on", not as much "fun to drive".

Then again, I once had a '70s-ish Ford Econoline van, with the straignt
6 under the doghouse. I had a neighbor at the time who was a car guy,
and one of the funnest things we did was go about 70 on I-494 with the
doghouse off and him diddling with the motor. :-)

It was very noisy. )()(

Cheers!
Rich

Yep. Fun to work on was the point. But apart from that, a well-
maintained VW of the time would pretty much go forever at a relatively
low cost. My 1968 VW squareback (FI) averaged 35mpg in mixed driving,
not bad back in the day of cheap (and leaded) gas. And it did a pretty
good job of hauling stuff.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Anthony Fremont]

MooseFET wrote:
On Apr 4, 4:37 am, AZ1 wrote:


Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

If vacuum is clean, why do they make vacuum cleaners? Answer me that!

The same reason that they make hot-water-heaters. It's a marketing
demonstration that shows that good sales ability beats a product name every
time. Getting people to buy something they obviously don't need.

Tubes use heaters.

Yes but these heaters are run on 6.3V which is the squareroot of 39.69
and therefor obviously evil.

That's a rumor mindlessly passed thru the generations. If you check, you'll
see that they actually run on 6.48V which is the square root of 42, the
most-perfect number.

In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room,

Smart people move to a warm climate.

That's what I thought, then I moved to houston. Smart people live anywhere
else.

and we need to burn less wood

When the tubes light the house on fire, a lot of wood gets burned.

or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our
place.

Very few house burn coal for heat any more. Coal burning is a dirty
nasty way to make power much like tubes are a dirty nasty way to make
music.

Right, we now burn coal on a much more massive scale. We use it to
inefficiently generate electricity from heat, then transport it over long
distances while losing a large percentage to resistive/emissive losses.
This is usually done on poles cleverly placed so as to be directly in the
path of wayward automobiles, but then power company procedures are another
subject themselves. Then, what's left of the electricity is used to power a
heat pump and further reduce efficiency to a record low since the dawn of
heat generation. It's called progress.

In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes
to the same temperature / emission level.

The same is true of transistors. If you lived in a place that was
about 5 degrees K, you'd have to heat the transistors in your radio.
We all live in a warmer climate than that, even the foolish ones who
live in the north.

But what would you heat them with?

So tubes are enviro friendly.

Tubes cause puppies to die.

Tubes should not be taken orally or rectally.

Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like
semi-conductors,

Those holes let the good sound pass through without effort. Tubes
contain magnetic materials. These lead to distortion.

Which is precisely what you want when you're an axe grinder.

but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.

They suffocate the sound.

No, they provide space for the sound. How much head-room could possibly be
built into a to-92? It must be like passing a kidney stone the size of a
grape. Imagine the excruciating effect on the sound. Tubes provide
unprecidented clarity too, have you tried looking thru a transistor lately?
How could sound pass thru something like that and not come out all muddy? I
mean really......

[jasen]

On 2007-04-04, Arny Krueger wrote:

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

Do you think the fact that it was a van had anything to do
with that? centre of gravity and all that...
Any van with unpowered steering will be hard to
drive in cross-winds (especially erratic cross-winds).
Those VW vans were light in the front too which didn't help
much erither unless you wanted to take them off-road.

Bye.
Jasen

[Homer J Simpson]

"jasen" wrote in message
...

Do you think the fact that it was a van had anything to do
with that? centre of gravity and all that...
Any van with unpowered steering will be hard to
drive in cross-winds (especially erratic cross-winds).
Those VW vans were light in the front too which didn't help
much erither unless you wanted to take them off-road.

Vans and SUVs drive like a bowling ball taped to a roller skate.

[John[_8_]]

Tom Bruhns wrote:

On Apr 4, 4:37 am, AZ1 wrote:

Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.

Guess you haven't been using ceramic external anode valves...

Glass can also be melted again and re-used.

Oh, yes...that's a fun thing to do with valves. Connect filament
transformer to 833 bottle. Connect -200V--+200V variable power supply
between the grid and the filament transformer center tap. Connect
3000V power supply between the plate and the filament transformer
center tap. Apply power to the filament transformer; allow the
filament to warm up to normal operating temperature. Turn on the grid
power supply and adjust it so the grid is -200V relative to the
filament. Turn on the plate power supply. Monitor the current in the
plate supply. Make the filament voltage more positive, stopping when
the plate current reaches 0.3 amps. If nothing spectacular happens
within fifteen minutes or so, crank up the grid voltage a bit more
till the plate current reaches 0.4 amps. Continue in this fashion
till something happens. Observe the new shape of the glass envelope.
You've done the first part (the "melted" part). Now try to figure out
the "re-used" part for this sample.

Cheers,
Tom



Reminded me of the Motorola Motrac mobile radios that happened to get
the mike stuck. It would melt a nice little hole between the top plate
pins of the 5894 tube. The insides would turn white when they vaporized
as the air and oxygen hit them.

John