[west]

If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 1, 6:56 pm, "west" wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west

Typically, one posts the link when making such a statement. Not that I
disagree with your contention.

Eventually, you will learn.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , Peter Wieck
at wrote on 4/1/07 9:01 PM:

On Apr 1, 6:56 pm, "west" wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west

Typically, one posts the link when making such a statement. Not that I
disagree with your contention.

Eventually, you will learn.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



Peter,

I see that you're an optimist, eh?

Jon

[Sal Brisindi]

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

[Ian Bell]

Sal Brisindi wrote:

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

Is that listening area totally untreated (acoustically)?

Ian

[Iain Churches]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
news:4610a17b.0@entanet...
Sal Brisindi wrote:

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

Is that listening area totally untreated (acoustically)?

Ian

There are acoustic panels on the ceiling and behind the
listening position. In addition there are heavy black
velvet curtains which we can pull to close off the test
bench area during a listening session. These curtains
are wide enough to cover the back wall, behind the
Tannoys if required. The floor is carpeted and to the
right of the listening area is a large upholstered sofa.
Despite (or perhaps because of) its irregular shape,
the room sounds good.

Iain

[Mike Gilmour]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
news:4610a17b.0@entanet...
Sal Brisindi wrote:

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

Is that listening area totally untreated (acoustically)?

Ian

There are acoustic panels on the ceiling and behind the
listening position. In addition there are heavy black
velvet curtains which we can pull to close off the test
bench area during a listening session. These curtains
are wide enough to cover the back wall, behind the
Tannoys if required. The floor is carpeted and to the
right of the listening area is a large upholstered sofa.
Despite (or perhaps because of) its irregular shape,
the room sounds good.

Iain




A very nice tidy workshop with plenty of test gear, nice one Iain. Looking
at the listening room I just wondered if that radiator behind the RHS
speaker gave any problems with stereo tonal balance between speakers, guess
it acts in some small way like a diffuser.

Mike

[Iain Churches]

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...


A very nice tidy workshop with plenty of test gear, nice one Iain. Looking
at the listening room I just wondered if that radiator behind the RHS
speaker gave any problems with stereo tonal balance between speakers,
guess it acts in some small way like a diffuser.


Hi Mike. We are up on the fifth floor, just below the roof level. That
radiator is one of two in the listening room. In the winter it can be -20C
outside:-)

We talked about taking the radiator out. No-one has commented
on any audibly adverse effects. Many people bring their own
professionally made recordings to audition.

There is a floor to ceiling heavy-velvet studio curtain which can be
pulled round behind the speakers if required.

Iain

[Ian Bell]

Iain Churches wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
news:4610a17b.0@entanet...
Sal Brisindi wrote:

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

Is that listening area totally untreated (acoustically)?

Ian

There are acoustic panels on the ceiling and behind the
listening position. In addition there are heavy black
velvet curtains which we can pull to close off the test
bench area during a listening session. These curtains
are wide enough to cover the back wall, behind the
Tannoys if required. The floor is carpeted and to the
right of the listening area is a large upholstered sofa.
Despite (or perhaps because of) its irregular shape,
the room sounds good.

Iain

Any bass traps?

Ian

[Iain Churches]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
news:46115477.0@entanet...
Iain Churches wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
news:4610a17b.0@entanet...
Sal Brisindi wrote:

west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I
was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html

Sal

Is that listening area totally untreated (acoustically)?

Any bass traps?

No.

[Mike Gilmour]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...


A very nice tidy workshop with plenty of test gear, nice one Iain.
Looking
at the listening room I just wondered if that radiator behind the RHS
speaker gave any problems with stereo tonal balance between speakers,
guess it acts in some small way like a diffuser.


Hi Mike. We are up on the fifth floor, just below the roof level. That
radiator is one of two in the listening room. In the winter it can
be -20C
outside:-)

Heck, you have to be warm listening to music, a single malt helps a lot
internally, except for critical listening that is ;-)


We talked about taking the radiator out. No-one has commented
on any audibly adverse effects. Many people bring their own
professionally made recordings to audition.

I suppose it might resonate a bit at low frequencies? I used to have an
electric heater between the speakers but it resonated at volume but the
sound appeared to come from the speakers themselves - when I took the heater
out of the room it made a big difference.

There is a floor to ceiling heavy-velvet studio curtain which can be
pulled round behind the speakers if required.

...do you prefer it without? I suppose you could go for LEDE approach with
curtains behind the listener.


Iain

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 3, 6:29 am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:

I suppose it might resonate a bit at low frequencies?

A honking-large hot-water radiator such as that one has enough mass to
it that it should not resonate at any objectionable frequency. But
along these lines last fall we replaced a huge (350 pound/150kg) thick-
tube cast-iron radiator in our living room with a Runtal Flat-Plate
radiator. The cast-iron beast had a 4 s.f. footprint with the pipe
access and was a full one foot out from the wall at its face. The
Runtal hangs on the wall and is only 2.5" (60mm) to its face. Yet,
both were/are equivalent in heat radiation. The flat face of the
Runtal did make a perceptable change to the room acoustics from the
curved pipes of the radiator. If I had to describe it, the left
channel imaging was a bit sharper with the flat-plate in place. That
the CI unit partially impinged on the field of the left speaker may
have had something to do with that.

So, there is something to the "baffle" idea anyway.

http://www.houseforsaleeasternshore....ator_-_300.jpg

Something about like this is what came out.

http://runtalnorthamerica.com/reside...anel-bed-L.jpg

And about this went in.

And, yes, we put the old radiator on Craig's List and it was gone
within 24 hours.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Iain Churches]

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...


A very nice tidy workshop with plenty of test gear, nice one Iain.
Looking
at the listening room I just wondered if that radiator behind the RHS
speaker gave any problems with stereo tonal balance between speakers,
guess it acts in some small way like a diffuser.


Hi Mike. We are up on the fifth floor, just below the roof level. That
radiator is one of two in the listening room. In the winter it can
be -20C
outside:-)

Heck, you have to be warm listening to music, a single malt helps a lot
internally, except for critical listening that is ;-)

This winter has been mild, so we have not really needed the radiator,
and it could of course be replaced by an electric space heater, which
could be placed anywehere in the room.


We talked about taking the radiator out. No-one has commented
on any audibly adverse effects. Many people bring their own
professionally made recordings to audition.

I suppose it might resonate a bit at low frequencies? I used to have an
electric heater between the speakers but it resonated at volume but the
sound appeared to come from the speakers themselves - when I took the
heater out of the room it made a big difference.

There is a floor to ceiling heavy-velvet studio curtain which can be
pulled round behind the speakers if required.

..do you prefer it without? I suppose you could go for LEDE approach with
curtains behind the listener.

I usually listen without. There is a studio in Stockholm with a LEDE
control
room. I like it very much.

Cheers
Iain

[Iain Churches]

"Sal Brisindi" wrote in message
...
west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html


Hi West

Thanks. It has been a long journey from the cardboard box
full of components on the kitchen table, followed by a bench
in the spare bedroom. Then a bench in a corner of the garage
then two benches in a room over the garage, then two benches
and a lot of shelves in a neighbour's disused basement.

The place we have now is on the top floor of what used to
be a pharmaceuticals factory. It's a protected building, so
the owners rent to small enterprises, sculptors, painters,
potters, an architect, an upholsterer, two girls who make
wedding dresses, and a guy who makes the most incredible
small scale models in brass, copper and stainless steel
(steam engines etc) The rent we pay, split four ways, is
probably less than most people who smoke and drink
spend on beer and cigarettes:-)

The place is quite close to where I live, so I can go for
a couple of hours fettling in the evening, and be back in
time for supper.

I watch very little TV, and spend that "armchair time" in
the workshop. My job as a classical recording engineer
keeps me knee-deep in the digital domain, so things
thermionic make a pleasant contrast.

Most of the workshop equipment is ex-lab stuff, from
Scandinavian broadcast and the UK (Marconi, British
Aerospace, Racal-Decca etc etc)
It is no longer state of the art, but I don't need to be
able to measure distortion to four zeros to the right of the
decimal point:-)

It's not too difficult with some dedication and applied
effort to build an amp the performance of which can
equal a commercial product. For me, a big plus is that
you can include the features that *you* considers necessary
(perhaps one pair of balanced line inputs on a preamp, and
one balanced pair of outputs on XLR
and one pair of "vanilla" outputs on RCA connectors.
That's what I enjoy about homebrew audio:-)

But the problem is that often a hand-made amp can also
look "home-made". So aesthetics/cosmetics are also
importance. When at school, I was struggling with irregular
verbs in Greek and Latin while others were learning
carpentry or metalwork, so I have had a lot of catching up
to do. Fortunately, one of the guys I share with is brilliant in
these areas. We work well as a team.

I enjoy the exchange of ideas with others, particularly
as the see things from a slightly different aspect. The guy
with the bench next to mine builds bespoke guitar amps -
absolute works of art.

I have a good collection of old books (RDH, Tremaine,
Lewis Yorke, etc) and participation in a group like RAT
is always helpful, particularly when you get stuck:-))
A few very knowledgeable tubeheads, people who have
become disillusioned with Usenet, still keep in touch
by e.mail.

I guess most builders start off with oven baking tins for
chassis, and later Hammond or something similar. Sheet
metal bending is quite an art. I like to use the "slab chassis"
approach. We have recently set up a small sheet metal
prep room, so that we can polish front panels etc, and
prepare them for anodising. This has to be a separate
room because, even with an extractor, the fine dust can
be a problem in an open workshop.


Regards to all
Iain

[west]

Hopefully I will learn not to be a pompous elitist like yourself. What
compels you to poison thread's well so often? ... Notice how your
sockpuppet (yeager) follows you so often? Sorry Iain. Not all American are
like this.

unsigned out of utter contempt

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 1, 6:56 pm, "west" wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west

Typically, one posts the link when making such a statement. Not that I
disagree with your contention.

Eventually, you will learn.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[west]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

"Sal Brisindi" wrote in message
...
west wrote:
If you missed Iain's web site, I strongly recommend you visit it. I was
simply blown away by his "workshop" that he calls "for his hobby." The
only
problem, I see, is that it must keep him away from home a lot.

west


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...orkshop02.html


Hi West

Thanks. It has been a long journey from the cardboard box
full of components on the kitchen table, followed by a bench
in the spare bedroom. Then a bench in a corner of the garage
then two benches in a room over the garage, then two benches
and a lot of shelves in a neighbour's disused basement.

The place we have now is on the top floor of what used to
be a pharmaceuticals factory. It's a protected building, so
the owners rent to small enterprises, sculptors, painters,
potters, an architect, an upholsterer, two girls who make
wedding dresses, and a guy who makes the most incredible
small scale models in brass, copper and stainless steel
(steam engines etc) The rent we pay, split four ways, is
probably less than most people who smoke and drink
spend on beer and cigarettes:-)

The place is quite close to where I live, so I can go for
a couple of hours fettling in the evening, and be back in
time for supper.

I watch very little TV, and spend that "armchair time" in
the workshop. My job as a classical recording engineer
keeps me knee-deep in the digital domain, so things
thermionic make a pleasant contrast.

Most of the workshop equipment is ex-lab stuff, from
Scandinavian broadcast and the UK (Marconi, British
Aerospace, Racal-Decca etc etc)
It is no longer state of the art, but I don't need to be
able to measure distortion to four zeros to the right of the
decimal point:-)

It's not too difficult with some dedication and applied
effort to build an amp the performance of which can
equal a commercial product. For me, a big plus is that
you can include the features that *you* considers necessary
(perhaps one pair of balanced line inputs on a preamp, and
one balanced pair of outputs on XLR
and one pair of "vanilla" outputs on RCA connectors.
That's what I enjoy about homebrew audio:-)

But the problem is that often a hand-made amp can also
look "home-made". So aesthetics/cosmetics are also
importance. When at school, I was struggling with irregular
verbs in Greek and Latin while others were learning
carpentry or metalwork, so I have had a lot of catching up
to do. Fortunately, one of the guys I share with is brilliant in
these areas. We work well as a team.

I enjoy the exchange of ideas with others, particularly
as the see things from a slightly different aspect. The guy
with the bench next to mine builds bespoke guitar amps -
absolute works of art.

I have a good collection of old books (RDH, Tremaine,
Lewis Yorke, etc) and participation in a group like RAT
is always helpful, particularly when you get stuck:-))
A few very knowledgeable tubeheads, people who have
become disillusioned with Usenet, still keep in touch
by e.mail.

I guess most builders start off with oven baking tins for
chassis, and later Hammond or something similar. Sheet
metal bending is quite an art. I like to use the "slab chassis"
approach. We have recently set up a small sheet metal
prep room, so that we can polish front panels etc, and
prepare them for anodising. This has to be a separate
room because, even with an extractor, the fine dust can
be a problem in an open workshop.


Regards to all
Iain

Thank you very much for the insight into this part of your life. I pray that
you will never get discouraged with this NG.

Cordially,
west

[Sal Brisindi]

Iain Churches wrote:
"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

A very nice tidy workshop with plenty of test gear, nice one Iain. Looking
at the listening room I just wondered if that radiator behind the RHS
speaker gave any problems with stereo tonal balance between speakers,
guess it acts in some small way like a diffuser.


Hi Mike. We are up on the fifth floor, just below the roof level. That
radiator is one of two in the listening room. In the winter it can be -20C
outside:-)

We talked about taking the radiator out. No-one has commented
on any audibly adverse effects. Many people bring their own
professionally made recordings to audition.

There is a floor to ceiling heavy-velvet studio curtain which can be
pulled round behind the speakers if required.

Iain



I though the radiator was there to give it the warm tube sound during
the winter.... ;-)

Sal Brisindi

[Patrick Turner]

I though the radiator was there to give it the warm tube sound during
the winter.... ;-)


Nah, Iain turns off the radiator when the tube amps are on.

In the far northern and southern latitudes,
tube amps are great little heaters in the winters.

Patrick Turner

Sal Brisindi

[Peter Wieck]

On Apr 4, 7:04 am, Patrick Turner wrote:

Nah, Iain turns off the radiator when the tube amps are on.

In the far northern and southern latitudes,
tube amps are great little heaters in the winters.

My Scott LK-150 (by calculation) puts out about 850 BTUH, about the
equivalent of 4 @ 60-watt light-bulbs. The Dynaco 70 is under a
shelf, the cats compete for the above-it privilege when it is in
operation. They are not fools. The several smaller tube amps don't
throw nearly as much heat as the above two.

But, when I am running solid-state stuff, the cats' favorite position
is the table front-and-center between the speakers, or a corner of the
couch opposite.

All that aside, I am quite jealous of Iain's set-up. All that I do
comes out of a bench that is ~30" x 70" with shelving on all three
sides. And the scope has to live in a closet unless in direct use. No
room.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Iain Churches]

"west" wrote in message
news:aHDQh.3398$_43.1784@trnddc02...

Thank you very much for the insight into this part of your life. I pray
that
you will never get discouraged with this NG.

It's worth persevering with RAT. Despite the sometimes
poor SNR there is much worth reading, and some very clever
and helpful people here. There are also others whose mission
seems to be to distract us from our interest in thermionic
audio.

Quite a few good people have disappeared from RAT,
but I am pleased that they still keep contact by e-mail.


Best regards
Iain