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Preben Friis Preben Friis is offline
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"Romeo Rondeau" wrote:
Preben Friis wrote:


Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
not freely copy and distribute their work?


When your paycheck comes from people buying your product?


So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?

/Preben Friis


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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:55:55 +0200, "Preben Friis"
wrote:

So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?


Yeah. But it doesn't work. If you can hear it, you can record it.
It's just a nuisance.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Preben Friis wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote:
Preben Friis wrote:


Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
not freely copy and distribute their work?


When your paycheck comes from people buying your product?


So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?


Yes, but attempts to use technical solutions to solve social problems
never work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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On Mar 25, 2:02 pm, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom
wrote:

So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?


Yeah. But it doesn't work. If you can hear it, you can record it.
It's just a nuisance.


And you gotta be smarter than just the ability to drag a file name and
drop it somewhere. And not so lazy. The average music lover won't copy
of a protected song because it takes too long and the copy won't be
perfect. But they'll sure complain about their rights.




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Preben Friis Preben Friis is offline
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote:
Preben Friis wrote:


So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?


Yes, but attempts to use technical solutions to solve social problems
never work.


Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
solution to a social problem, right?

/Preben Friis




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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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On Mar 25, 3:33 pm, "Preben Friis" wrote:

Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
solution to a social problem, right?


Nope. He can always cut a hole in your shed. It's just easier for you
to discover that there's a hole in your shed than to discover that
someone has taken your music.

Not every neighbor will borrow your lawnmower if he has to damage your
shed or lock, but one might go that far, particularly if he thought he
could get away with it, like if you're away for the day, won't see you
using it, and probably won't discover the hole in your shed until the
next time you want to use your lawn mower.

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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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"Preben Friis" wrote ...
Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure
that your neighbour doesn't borrow your lawnmover
without asking... That is a technical solution to a social
problem, right?


No. It is not a "solution". It is merely a deterrent.
A solution would be to not have a lawnmower or
to screen your neighbors for moral behavior.
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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On Mar 25, 3:55 pm, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"Preben Friis" wrote ...


No. It is not a "solution". It is merely a deterrent.
A solution would be to not have a lawnmower or
to screen your neighbors for moral behavior.


Actually, a solution would be to have a lawnmower that would only
start if it was in your yard. Then your neighbor could borrow it but
he couldn't use it. Or you could have a manual lawnmower, which would
probably deter him from wanting to borrow it.

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Preben Friis wrote:

Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
solution to a social problem, right?


Locks are a good example: locks keep honest people honest but they don't
do anything much to deal with an even slightly determined thief. The
social contract built up around the lock is stronger than the minimal
security the lock actually provides.

People take locks seriously, and that keeps them from borrowing your
lawnmower. But as soon as people stop taking locks seriously, they
don't really do much good.

When I was a kid, cars had ignition locks, but everybody knew how to
defeat them and thieves regularly hotwired cars and ran off with them.
Then GM put in mechanical steering wheel locks, but everybody knew
how to defeat those too. Now everyone has put in car alarms, but they
go off spuriously so often that nobody even looks when an alarm goes
off, so thieves just ignore them. The deterrent effect of the lock
and alarm is more in the mind than being anything physical.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Preben Friis Preben Friis is offline
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"Mike Rivers" wrote
Actually, a solution would be to have a lawnmower that would only
start if it was in your yard. Then your neighbor could borrow it but
he couldn't use it.


Brilliant! You should patent that. You could call it DLM ... Digital
Lawnmover Management

/Preben Friis


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Agent 86 Agent 86 is offline
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:00:29 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

When I was a kid, cars had ignition locks, but everybody knew how to
defeat them and thieves regularly hotwired cars and ran off with them.
Then GM put in mechanical steering wheel locks, but everybody knew how to
defeat those too. Now everyone has put in car alarms, but they go off
spuriously so often that nobody even looks when an alarm goes off, so
thieves just ignore them. The deterrent effect of the lock and alarm is
more in the mind than being anything physical.


Scott, I know you live in Virginia. I spent a bit over a year in VA Beach,
off Lynhaven, right near NAS Oceana, back in the early 1990s

At the time, neighboring Norfolk had a reputation as one of the car theft
capitols of the world, and paranoia being what it is, Southside
Tidewater area had more than its share of early adopters of car alarms.

The area also had more than its share of spuriously triggered car alarms,
because at that time, the A6 intruders (about the LOUDEST aircraft I have
ever been in close proximity to), were still actively flying in and out of
Oceana.

I remember one walk through the Walmart parking lot on Lynhaven when I
(quite literally) couldn't walk past ten cars without one of them having
the alarm siren going off.

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Agent 86 Agent 86 is offline
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:29:31 -0700, Mike Rivers wrote:

The average music lover won't copy of a protected song because it takes
too long and the copy won't be perfect.


And that's the really stupid part. the guys worrying about a "perfect"
copy have about as big of a clue as the guys regularly asking on RAP about
the best $200 large condenser.

Personally, I'll take a cassette made with a Nak on a Maxell or TDK CrO2
tape pretty much any day over pretty much any mp3. But that's just me.

Some people think I'm weird. I think they're gullible, so I guess that
makes us even.
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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:55:06 -0400, Agent 86
wrote:

Personally, I'll take a cassette made with a Nak on a Maxell or TDK CrO2
tape pretty much any day over pretty much any mp3. But that's just me.


Actually, the brain's a pretty good filter. Back in the day, I
tolerated the hiss and Dolby artifacts of cassette, the rumble and
surface noise of vinyl - and focused on the music. In a way, having
to filter out the imperfections of the medium assisted in filtering
out other imperfections. Digital lets me get much closer to the
music. But I notice every blemish, of performance or of recording
technique.
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Bruce Bruce is offline
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"Preben Friis" wrote in
. dk:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...

Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . .
.


Have we actual reports of this happening, in a way that affects
self-recorded material?


Self recorded material does not contain DRM protection, so I can't
think why it should ever happen.

Don't blame Microsoft for DRM. Blame the crowd that pirates other
peoples material. Without them, there wouldn't be any DRM.

Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
not freely copy and distribute their work?

/Preben Friis




It extends to the hardware, too.
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