Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Is there a circuit that can be built to protect speakers from being blown
given the amps output power (rms) and the speakers max power? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
it would be possible to use a fuse to protect the speaker.
"Johan Wagener" wrote in message ... Is there a circuit that can be built to protect speakers from being blown given the amps output power (rms) and the speakers max power? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
could you give more detail please?
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Johan Wagener wrote:
could you give more detail please? Put a fuse between the amplifier and speaker. The size can be estimated by using the formula P = I^2 * Z. It would have some meaning as long as the power ratings you're working with reflect the real world. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
In article ,
Mark Zarella wrote: Johan Wagener wrote: could you give more detail please? Put a fuse between the amplifier and speaker. The size can be estimated by using the formula P = I^2 * Z. It would have some meaning as long as the power ratings you're working with reflect the real world. heh.. that was going to be my question. how would you figure out the correct fuse size. i've seen fuses in some pa/studio enclosures.. hell i think parts express has the panels with em built in. but all of this when you can just turn it down, i don't get it. -- cyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Turning down the volume when you have audible distortion is the best way to
not blow a speaker. But keep in mind that way more speakers are blown with too little power than with too much power. In fact I'd say it's rare to blow a subwoofer with too much power. Most folks just get el crapo amps and drive them into clipping therefore sending the speaker a sqaure wave and that will pop a voice coil in a heartbeat. "Johan Wagener" wrote in message ... Is there a circuit that can be built to protect speakers from being blown given the amps output power (rms) and the speakers max power? |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
In article .net,
"Pug Fugley" wrote: Turning down the volume when you have audible distortion is the best way to not blow a speaker. i concur. But keep in mind that way more speakers are blown with too little power than with too much power. In fact I'd say it's rare to blow a subwoofer with too much power. Most folks just get el crapo amps and drive them into clipping therefore sending the speaker a sqaure wave and that will pop a voice coil in a heartbeat. hehe here we go again.. for about a week i had an old zapco 25x2 amp running full range (no x-over) on a cheap aw1200 audiobahn sub. did all i could to fry one of em just to see what would happen and nothing. i'd say the biggest killer is heat. if you can heat up the voice coil enough, of course something is gonna happen to it. -- cyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Turning down the volume when you have audible distortion is the best way to
not blow a speaker. True. But keep in mind that way more speakers are blown with too little power than with too much power. In fact I'd say it's rare to blow a subwoofer with too much power. Most folks just get el crapo amps and drive them into clipping therefore sending the speaker a sqaure wave and that will pop a voice coil in a heartbeat Wrong. Underpowering Will NOT blow a speaker. There are a number of factors that can allow your "100" watt amp to blow your "500" watt speaker, not the least of which is the typical manufactures, well sneaky, ways of rating thier products and the often overly inflated ratings of speakers. The square wave in and of iteself does not blow speakers. What you are talking about is an audio myth, underpowering does not damage speakers by itself. I dont know anyone who has blown thier subs by "underpowering" them but I know several, including some myself, that have blown with too MUCH power. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"cyrus" wrote in message ... In article .net, "Pug Fugley" wrote: Turning down the volume when you have audible distortion is the best way to not blow a speaker. i concur. But keep in mind that way more speakers are blown with too little power than with too much power. In fact I'd say it's rare to blow a subwoofer with too much power. Most folks just get el crapo amps and drive them into clipping therefore sending the speaker a sqaure wave and that will pop a voice coil in a heartbeat. hehe here we go again.. for about a week i had an old zapco 25x2 amp running full range (no x-over) on a cheap aw1200 audiobahn sub. did all i could to fry one of em just to see what would happen and nothing. Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, a Zapco amp is the LAST amp you want to use. Zapco has to be the cleanest power on the planet |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a
speaker, a Zapco amp is the LAST amp you want to use. Zapco has to be the cleanest power on the planet No offense, but...what a crock. First, if your amp is delivering DC to your speaker, then the amp is broken. Even if you're driving the amp substantially into clipping causing your waveform to resemble a square wave as you've stated, there is not a DC component in the signal. If your meter is reading DC, it's time to send your amplifier in to service. Second, amplifiers are no more or less likely to be driven into clipping if they're Zapcos or Jensens. If you're saturated, you're saturated. I fail to see how the name on the front is going to prevent saturation to any noticeable degree. I think you're probably confusing noise and saturation, two very different and unrelated quantities. Oh yeah, and what soundfreak said. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, a Zapco amp is the LAST amp you want to use. Zapco has to be the cleanest power on the planet No offense, but...what a crock. First, if your amp is delivering DC to your speaker, then the amp is broken. Even if you're driving the amp substantially into clipping causing your waveform to resemble a square wave as you've stated, there is not a DC component in the signal. If your meter is reading DC, it's time to send your amplifier in to service. Second, amplifiers are no more or less likely to be driven into clipping if they're Zapcos or Jensens. If you're saturated, you're saturated. I fail to see how the name on the front is going to prevent saturation to any noticeable degree. I think you're probably confusing noise and saturation, two very different and unrelated quantities. Uhhh...yeah. So an amp driven into clipping will never blow a speaker? I don't think so. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Uhhh...yeah. So an amp driven into clipping will never blow a speaker? I
don't think so. Did you read my post?? I already answered that question. Clipping in and of itself does NOT blow a speaker. And noone ever said Never, but I will promise that underpowering a speaker will not blow it. If you think it does then explain how. Obviously you think the opposite. Offer your explanation then or else it just appears you have no clue what your talking about. Not saying you dont but your reply is typical of someone who does not know. Les |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Uhhh...yeah. So an amp driven into clipping will never blow a speaker? I don't think so. Did you read my post?? I already answered that question. Clipping in and of itself does NOT blow a speaker. And noone ever said Never, but I will promise that underpowering a speaker will not blow it. If you think it does then explain how. Obviously you think the opposite. Offer your explanation then or else it just appears you have no clue what your talking about. Not saying you dont but your reply is typical of someone who does not know. I think you heard me wrong. Underpowering a speaker will NOT blow it..what the hell is 'underpowering' a speaker, anyway?!?! Buying a 25 watt Pyramid amp, then driving it into distortion and clipping tyring to make it drive a 15" sub can blow it. Plain and simple. I've seen it too many times over the past 12 years. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Buying a 25 watt Pyramid amp, then driving it into distortion and clipping
tyring to make it drive a 15" sub can blow it. Plain and simple. I've seen it too many times over the past 12 years. How????? Offer some sort of explanation other than "I have seen it" You just believe in audio myths. What 15 inch speaker? A good 15" speaker will not be blown by a 25 watt amp. Just go ahead and attempt to explain how it could happen. And then I will tell you scientifically and factually how it cant. Tell me how clipping will "pop a voice coil"?? I think you are confusing things and mixing up myth with reality. You going to have to provide more evidence than "I have seen it". That just wont cut it with me or anyone else that knows better. Les |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
In article . net,
"Pug Fugley" wrote: for about a week i had an old zapco 25x2 amp running full range (no x-over) on a cheap aw1200 audiobahn sub. did all i could to fry one of em just to see what would happen and nothing. Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, a Zapco amp is the LAST amp you want to use. Zapco has to be the cleanest power on the planet nuh uh, my deck is ok. the signal going to the amp was ok, i just turned the gains on the amp to max. hell it was only 25x2 hehe -- cyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a
speaker, BTW: There is NO DC component to a clipped or distorted signal. Your amp is faulty if there is DC at the outputs. And if a Zapco has DC at the output then you should do the only decent thing and retire it with a proper burial and funeral service, I would attend. Les |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Buying a 25 watt Pyramid amp, then driving it into distortion and clipping tyring to make it drive a 15" sub can blow it. Plain and simple. I've seen it too many times over the past 12 years. How????? Offer some sort of explanation other than "I have seen it" You just believe in audio myths. What 15 inch speaker? A good 15" speaker will not be blown by a 25 watt amp. Just go ahead and attempt to explain how it could happen. And then I will tell you scientifically and factually how it cant. Tell me how clipping will "pop a voice coil"?? I think you are confusing things and mixing up myth with reality. You going to have to provide more evidence than "I have seen it". That just wont cut it with me or anyone else that knows better. I've seen it, and every magazine article I've read about it explains it. You might want to check them out. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, BTW: There is NO DC component to a clipped or distorted signal. Your amp is faulty if there is DC at the outputs. And if a Zapco has DC at the output then you should do the only decent thing and retire it with a proper burial and funeral service, I would attend. umm..I think the entire thread is pretty much saying that the Zapco DOES NOT have DC coming out of it. Re-read please. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
No. What those magazines say is "when you drive an amp into clipping the
resulting square wave causes the average power output to rise beyond the designed output levels". If that amount of power, whatever it may be, is enough to blow the speaker then it'll blow. If it's not over what the speaker can handle it'll do it all day long. You can quote magazines all day long but I have every issue or CA&A for the last 5 years (I had about 9 years worth but I was running out of room), the last 4 years of AS&S until they changed their name and CSR for 4 years until their name change, not to mention all the other magazines we sold in the shop and I don't ever recall reading what you wrote. Paul Vina wrote in message link.net... "Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Buying a 25 watt Pyramid amp, then driving it into distortion and clipping tyring to make it drive a 15" sub can blow it. Plain and simple. I've seen it too many times over the past 12 years. How????? Offer some sort of explanation other than "I have seen it" You just believe in audio myths. What 15 inch speaker? A good 15" speaker will not be blown by a 25 watt amp. Just go ahead and attempt to explain how it could happen. And then I will tell you scientifically and factually how it cant. Tell me how clipping will "pop a voice coil"?? I think you are confusing things and mixing up myth with reality. You going to have to provide more evidence than "I have seen it". That just wont cut it with me or anyone else that knows better. I've seen it, and every magazine article I've read about it explains it. You might want to check them out. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Pug Fugley" wrote in message link.net... "Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, BTW: There is NO DC component to a clipped or distorted signal. Your amp is faulty if there is DC at the outputs. And if a Zapco has DC at the output then you should do the only decent thing and retire it with a proper burial and funeral service, I would attend. umm..I think the entire thread is pretty much saying that the Zapco DOES NOT have DC coming out of it. Re-read please. It will if it the outputs go out on it. If it's working correctly it won't. Saying a Zapco will never put out a DC signal is just silly. Paul Vina |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:_UIob.58579$9E1.259511@attbi_s52... "Pug Fugley" wrote in message link.net... "Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, BTW: There is NO DC component to a clipped or distorted signal. Your amp is faulty if there is DC at the outputs. And if a Zapco has DC at the output then you should do the only decent thing and retire it with a proper burial and funeral service, I would attend. umm..I think the entire thread is pretty much saying that the Zapco DOES NOT have DC coming out of it. Re-read please. It will if it the outputs go out on it. If it's working correctly it won't. Saying a Zapco will never put out a DC signal is just silly. err..I think you missed the joke. ziiiiiiing!! |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:qTIob.57140$275.143639@attbi_s53... No. What those magazines say is "when you drive an amp into clipping the resulting square wave causes the average power output to rise beyond the designed output levels". If that amount of power, whatever it may be, is enough to blow the speaker then it'll blow. If it's not over what the speaker can handle it'll do it all day long. You can quote magazines all day long but I have every issue or CA&A for the last 5 years (I had about 9 years worth but I was running out of room), the last 4 years of AS&S until they changed their name and CSR for 4 years until their name change, not to mention all the other magazines we sold in the shop and I don't ever recall reading what you wrote. Paul Vina So you're saying that an amplifier overdriven into clipping can in no way damage a speaker no matter what? |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
umm..I think the entire thread is pretty much saying that the Zapco DOES NOT
have DC coming out of it. Re-read please. Very good. I was making the joke that is a Zapco has DC on the outputs then it has served its purpose and given its life for the cause of good sound and should be dealt with appropriatly. That was the joke. Les |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Not at all. If the amount of power the amp makes while clipping exceeds the
speakers thermal limits it will fail. If it doesn't it'll run all day long. All you need to do is think of an amp that's clipping like larger amp because to the speaker that's all it is. Paul Vina "Pug Fugley" wrote in message link.net... "Paul Vina" wrote in message news:qTIob.57140$275.143639@attbi_s53... No. What those magazines say is "when you drive an amp into clipping the resulting square wave causes the average power output to rise beyond the designed output levels". If that amount of power, whatever it may be, is enough to blow the speaker then it'll blow. If it's not over what the speaker can handle it'll do it all day long. You can quote magazines all day long but I have every issue or CA&A for the last 5 years (I had about 9 years worth but I was running out of room), the last 4 years of AS&S until they changed their name and CSR for 4 years until their name change, not to mention all the other magazines we sold in the shop and I don't ever recall reading what you wrote. Paul Vina So you're saying that an amplifier overdriven into clipping can in no way damage a speaker no matter what? |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
I've seen it, and every magazine article I've read about it explains it. You
might want to check them ou Bull****!! Which one? What issue? Give me some quotes. And then explain thier scientific reasoning behind it. YOU CANT. And that is why you will not answer the question. You dont know and you wont admit it. Your in way over your head here. Either bring some facts to the matter or shut up. You believe in audio myths. Les |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Bull****!! Which one? What issue? Give me some quotes. And then explain
thier scientific reasoning behind it. YOU CANT. And that is why you will not answer the question. You dont know and you wont admit it. Your in way over your head here. Either bring some facts to the matter or shut up. You believe in audio myths. Les ouch. True, but ouch. Paul Vina |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
See what happens when the doctor prescribes vicodin? I can't even read the
obvious sarcasm. Paul Vina "Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... umm..I think the entire thread is pretty much saying that the Zapco DOES NOT have DC coming out of it. Re-read please. Very good. I was making the joke that is a Zapco has DC on the outputs then it has served its purpose and given its life for the cause of good sound and should be dealt with appropriatly. That was the joke. Les |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
So you're saying that an amplifier overdriven into clipping can in no way
damage a speaker no matter what? NO. Noone said that. BUT there are limited situations with MANY variables at work. Clipping in and of itself will 99% of the time NOT cause damage. You have to compound the problem with other things, read my first post in this thread for some of the examples. And if you still want to argue then present some facts, the whole "I saw it happen" is a bunch of bull said by ignorant people who dont know what they are talking about. Now you can either be one of those people or attempt to talk scientifically and factually and maybe gain some credibility, right now yours is shot. Les |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Bull****!! Which one? What issue? Give me some quotes. And then explain
thier scientific reasoning behind it. YOU CANT. And that is why you will not answer the question. You dont know and you wont admit it. Your in way over your head here. Either bring some facts to the matter or shut up. You believe in audio myths. Les ouch. True, but ouch. Paul Vina I cannot tell a lie I was nice for a while but dont have the patience for the typical "I saw it happen" or "All the magazines say so" bull. I try and disspell the audio myths and this is one of the big ones. And they can listen or not but if they want to argue then they better have some facts with them. Hope it wasnt too harsh, but it is only the truth. Les |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Pug Fugley wrote:
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Well..if you want to send a dirty, clipped, distorted, raw DC signal to a speaker, a Zapco amp is the LAST amp you want to use. Zapco has to be the cleanest power on the planet No offense, but...what a crock. First, if your amp is delivering DC to your speaker, then the amp is broken. Even if you're driving the amp substantially into clipping causing your waveform to resemble a square wave as you've stated, there is not a DC component in the signal. If your meter is reading DC, it's time to send your amplifier in to service. Second, amplifiers are no more or less likely to be driven into clipping if they're Zapcos or Jensens. If you're saturated, you're saturated. I fail to see how the name on the front is going to prevent saturation to any noticeable degree. I think you're probably confusing noise and saturation, two very different and unrelated quantities. Uhhh...yeah. So an amp driven into clipping will never blow a speaker? I don't think so. Read my post again. I said nothing about blowing speakers. I think you're confusing me with the other guy. By the way, the other guy is right. |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
I think you heard me wrong.
Underpowering a speaker will NOT blow it.. Even if the amplifier is clipping? Then we're in agreement. what the hell is 'underpowering' a speaker, anyway?!?! "Underpowering" is a term devised by people who don't know anything about basic electronics theory. Soundfreak is obviously pretty sick of those types of people. Buying a 25 watt Pyramid amp, then driving it into distortion and clipping tyring to make it drive a 15" sub can blow it. Only if the subwoofer is unable to handle ~35 watts (a guesstimate of the likely output of a 25 watt Pyramid driven well into clipping) at the "duty cycle" (so to speak) of the saturation. In simpler terms, if you exceed the thermal limits of the speaker, you'll fry it. If you don't, then it doesn't matter what kind of wave you deliver to it - square wave, triangle wave, whatever. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... So you're saying that an amplifier overdriven into clipping can in no way damage a speaker no matter what? NO. Noone said that. BUT there are limited situations with MANY variables at work. Clipping in and of itself will 99% of the time NOT cause damage. You have to compound the problem with other things, read my first post in this thread for some of the examples. And if you still want to argue then present some facts, the whole "I saw it happen" is a bunch of bull said by ignorant people who dont know what they are talking about. Now you can either be one of those people or attempt to talk scientifically and factually and maybe gain some credibility, right now yours is shot. To be honest with you, I couldn't really give a flying ****. I have better things to do with my life. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Soundfreak03" wrote in message ... Bull****!! Which one? What issue? Give me some quotes. And then explain thier scientific reasoning behind it. YOU CANT. And that is why you will not answer the question. You dont know and you wont admit it. Your in way over your head here. Either bring some facts to the matter or shut up. You believe in audio myths. Les ouch. True, but ouch. Paul Vina I cannot tell a lie I was nice for a while but dont have the patience for the typical "I saw it happen" or "All the magazines say so" bull. I try and disspell the audio myths and this is one of the big ones. And they can listen or not but if they want to argue then they better have some facts with them. Hope it wasnt too harsh, but it is only the truth. I'll bet you have a green pen for your CD's, eh? Figures. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Pug Fugley wrote: Read my post again. I said nothing about blowing speakers. I think you're confusing me with the other guy. By the way, the other guy is right. So you're saying a clipped, overdriven-until-death amp will NEVER EVER NEVER damage a speaker??? |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Pug Fugley wrote:
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Pug Fugley wrote: Read my post again. I said nothing about blowing speakers. I think you're confusing me with the other guy. By the way, the other guy is right. So you're saying a clipped, overdriven-until-death amp will NEVER EVER NEVER damage a speaker??? Is your reading comprehension that poor?? When did soundfreak or I say that a clipped signal will not blow a speaker? He simply said that clipping *"in and of itself"* will not blow a speaker. Power is the only thing that fries speakers. If you exceed the power threshold for a given speaker, then you'll fry it. Whether or not the amplifier is clipping has no effect. This is in contrast to your initial assertion that clipping is harmful to speakers. It can be, yes, but only if the power content is high enough. It's like if you were to say that Metallica is harmful to speakers. A ridiculous assertion of course. Though you CAN blow speakers playing Metallica as long as the power content exceeds what the speakers are capable of safely handling. |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Pug Fugley wrote: "Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Pug Fugley wrote: Read my post again. I said nothing about blowing speakers. I think you're confusing me with the other guy. By the way, the other guy is right. So you're saying a clipped, overdriven-until-death amp will NEVER EVER NEVER damage a speaker??? Is your reading comprehension that poor?? When did soundfreak or I say that a clipped signal will not blow a speaker? He simply said that clipping *"in and of itself"* will not blow a speaker. Power is the only thing that fries speakers. Bull****. I can fry a speaker with straight DC voltage. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
"Mark Zarella" wrote in message .. . Pug Fugley wrote: It's like if you were to say that Metallica is harmful to speakers. A ridiculous assertion of course. Though you CAN blow speakers playing Metallica as long as the power content exceeds what the speakers are capable of safely handling. There's a major difference in recorded guitar distortion and the distortion created by an amp being overdriven beyond it's limits. I'm shocked you didn't know that already. |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
Read my post again. I said nothing about blowing speakers. I think
you're confusing me with the other guy. By the way, the other guy is right. So you're saying a clipped, overdriven-until-death amp will NEVER EVER NEVER damage a speaker??? Only if the amount of power it puts out when clipping is over the speakers thermal limits. The speakers in my laptop see nothing but a clipped signal and they haven't blown yet. Paul Vina |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
To be honest with you, I couldn't really give a flying ****. I have better
things to do with my life. In other wordsm you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Figures. Just another dumbass without a clue. Les |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
speaker protection
So you're saying a clipped, overdriven-until-death amp will NEVER EVER NEVER
damage a speaker??? Noone said that. Are you really that much of a dumbass?? IF, and only IF, the amplifier delivers more power than the speaker can handle while being clipped will it damage a speaker. It happens WAY LESS than you think it does. Do you care to answer the questions I asked? Like how does a clipped amp "pop a voice coil"? And why you think that clipping is always going to damage the speakers? But you wont answer, and not because you dont have the time, but because you are an idiot without a clue. Les |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Weird static right-front speaker only: factory radio: 93 Civic (Very loud at times!) | Car Audio | |||
Strange speaker wires in RAV4 | Car Audio | |||
amp speaker question | Car Audio | |||
Stereo HIss, speaker pop after re-do of rear speaker mounts | Car Audio | |||
Wire detached from rear speaker | Car Audio |