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Sudhir
 
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Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable


While many used (mostly DUAL brand) and few new models
(Stanton ) are available here in USA, and have the three speeds
(33, 45 and 78), all of them are equipped with Cartridges
and Stylus/stylii which are for playing the Vinyls (LP / EP).
Trying to select the right cartridge and the corresponding stylus
narrows the field to just 2 models of cartridges and 1 model of
stylus / each. Stanton 500 -AL with D5127 stylus and
Pickering NP/AC with generic 3 mil stylus from KABUSA.com

These cartridges are listed as Standard Mount (but probably a
half inch height) and fit on many turntables. The stylus tip is 2.7 mil
to 3.0 mil (for refr. only: the biggest size for vinyls is: 0.7 mil,
i.e. 1/4th of that used on shellac)

The last mentioned baby - the stylus, costs more than what one has to
spend on mom, i.e. the cartridge ($40 to 50 vs. 25 or less). Since
78 rpm, which I may buy, or borrow, would have been in storgae
for many decades, they will have lot of dust particles and in few
cases cracks. So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


Alternatively, there are Ceramic type of cartridges, which were
made by: BSR and Tetrad. Their stylus have tips on both sides
(one side for LP , other side for 78 rpm / Saphhire) They are also
called: Flip-Over type). A large number of Low-end Turntable
BSR from U.K. and hundreds of brands sold in USA, were fitted with
these type of cartridges. These cartridges are of low fidelity and have
very low signal out-put, but they are cheap ($10 for cartridge and $5 for
stylus). Radio Shack special catalog lists many, but which are for 78 rpm,
is not mentioned in product info.


MY QUERY (all related to 78 rpm records)
================================

1 Recommendations from other users, as to which will be a better buy
for me, Stanton type or Flip-Over type ?


2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


3 Very Important: The Ceramic BSR or Tetrad cartridges
have only a small screw to attach them to the tonearm. Can I
just screw them to a regular (Standard or 1/2 inch capable
tonearm) or do I need special Head Shell ?


4 Do I need Re-Equilizer to reverse the RIAA curve

I read it 78rpm.com, that it is good to have one and
they want to sell to the visitors a a unit, priced at $290

My amplifier has the input jack for turntable, which
am currently using for a Technics unit (play Vinyls), so
assume that even for Cermaic Cartridges (low out-put),
I won't need a Pre-Amplifier.


5 Any other recommendations ?



Thanks



Sudhir

e-mail replies: maildrop888 (please add: @yahoo.com)
  #2   Report Post  
Dave Ryman
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

(Sudhir) wrote in
om:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable


While many used (mostly DUAL brand) and few new models
(Stanton ) are available here in USA, and have the three speeds
(33, 45 and 78), all of them are equipped with Cartridges
and Stylus/stylii which are for playing the Vinyls (LP / EP).
Trying to select the right cartridge and the corresponding stylus
narrows the field to just 2 models of cartridges and 1 model of
stylus / each. Stanton 500 -AL with D5127 stylus and
Pickering NP/AC with generic 3 mil stylus from KABUSA.com

These cartridges are listed as Standard Mount (but probably a
half inch height) and fit on many turntables. The stylus tip is 2.7
mil to 3.0 mil (for refr. only: the biggest size for vinyls is:
0.7 mil, i.e. 1/4th of that used on shellac)

The last mentioned baby - the stylus, costs more than what one has
to spend on mom, i.e. the cartridge ($40 to 50 vs. 25 or less).
Since 78 rpm, which I may buy, or borrow, would have been in storgae
for many decades, they will have lot of dust particles and in few
cases cracks. So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


(snip)


Thanks



Sudhir

e-mail replies: maildrop888 (please add: @yahoo.com)


Only thing I can really add is that 78rpm records have usually seen some
heavy wear. I had a small collection once (including one dating back to
the days when they could only "print" on one side). No 78rpm in the
collection had escaped damage of one sort or another.

Early Styli were thorn or steel - the former didn't damage the
information held in the grooves much, but wore out very quickly. Steel
lasted for ages, but gradually cut away at the recording.

Autochangers were quite common - dropping the next disk from a stack
above the turntable - resulting in many small scratches.

Some cheaper record players had a valve amp in the proximity of the
turntable, so 78rpm records can tend to be warped, too.

Add to all that the years of neglect, and the prospect of your 78rpm
record being in mint condition is highly unlikely. If they are mint, and
worth anything, keeping them that way probably involves not playing them
(I suppose you could record them onto MD, so they don't need to be played
again - this might allow you to edit out serious scratches, too - if you
have the patience).

In short - I would suspect that buying an expensive cartridge and stylus
would not be money well spent.

--
Regards,
Dave


http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one
  #3   Report Post  
Dave Ryman
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

(Sudhir) wrote in
om:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable


While many used (mostly DUAL brand) and few new models
(Stanton ) are available here in USA, and have the three speeds
(33, 45 and 78), all of them are equipped with Cartridges
and Stylus/stylii which are for playing the Vinyls (LP / EP).
Trying to select the right cartridge and the corresponding stylus
narrows the field to just 2 models of cartridges and 1 model of
stylus / each. Stanton 500 -AL with D5127 stylus and
Pickering NP/AC with generic 3 mil stylus from KABUSA.com

These cartridges are listed as Standard Mount (but probably a
half inch height) and fit on many turntables. The stylus tip is 2.7
mil to 3.0 mil (for refr. only: the biggest size for vinyls is:
0.7 mil, i.e. 1/4th of that used on shellac)

The last mentioned baby - the stylus, costs more than what one has
to spend on mom, i.e. the cartridge ($40 to 50 vs. 25 or less).
Since 78 rpm, which I may buy, or borrow, would have been in storgae
for many decades, they will have lot of dust particles and in few
cases cracks. So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


(snip)


Thanks



Sudhir

e-mail replies: maildrop888 (please add: @yahoo.com)


Only thing I can really add is that 78rpm records have usually seen some
heavy wear. I had a small collection once (including one dating back to
the days when they could only "print" on one side). No 78rpm in the
collection had escaped damage of one sort or another.

Early Styli were thorn or steel - the former didn't damage the
information held in the grooves much, but wore out very quickly. Steel
lasted for ages, but gradually cut away at the recording.

Autochangers were quite common - dropping the next disk from a stack
above the turntable - resulting in many small scratches.

Some cheaper record players had a valve amp in the proximity of the
turntable, so 78rpm records can tend to be warped, too.

Add to all that the years of neglect, and the prospect of your 78rpm
record being in mint condition is highly unlikely. If they are mint, and
worth anything, keeping them that way probably involves not playing them
(I suppose you could record them onto MD, so they don't need to be played
again - this might allow you to edit out serious scratches, too - if you
have the patience).

In short - I would suspect that buying an expensive cartridge and stylus
would not be money well spent.

--
Regards,
Dave


http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one
  #4   Report Post  
Dave Ryman
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

(Sudhir) wrote in
om:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable


While many used (mostly DUAL brand) and few new models
(Stanton ) are available here in USA, and have the three speeds
(33, 45 and 78), all of them are equipped with Cartridges
and Stylus/stylii which are for playing the Vinyls (LP / EP).
Trying to select the right cartridge and the corresponding stylus
narrows the field to just 2 models of cartridges and 1 model of
stylus / each. Stanton 500 -AL with D5127 stylus and
Pickering NP/AC with generic 3 mil stylus from KABUSA.com

These cartridges are listed as Standard Mount (but probably a
half inch height) and fit on many turntables. The stylus tip is 2.7
mil to 3.0 mil (for refr. only: the biggest size for vinyls is:
0.7 mil, i.e. 1/4th of that used on shellac)

The last mentioned baby - the stylus, costs more than what one has
to spend on mom, i.e. the cartridge ($40 to 50 vs. 25 or less).
Since 78 rpm, which I may buy, or borrow, would have been in storgae
for many decades, they will have lot of dust particles and in few
cases cracks. So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


(snip)


Thanks



Sudhir

e-mail replies: maildrop888 (please add: @yahoo.com)


Only thing I can really add is that 78rpm records have usually seen some
heavy wear. I had a small collection once (including one dating back to
the days when they could only "print" on one side). No 78rpm in the
collection had escaped damage of one sort or another.

Early Styli were thorn or steel - the former didn't damage the
information held in the grooves much, but wore out very quickly. Steel
lasted for ages, but gradually cut away at the recording.

Autochangers were quite common - dropping the next disk from a stack
above the turntable - resulting in many small scratches.

Some cheaper record players had a valve amp in the proximity of the
turntable, so 78rpm records can tend to be warped, too.

Add to all that the years of neglect, and the prospect of your 78rpm
record being in mint condition is highly unlikely. If they are mint, and
worth anything, keeping them that way probably involves not playing them
(I suppose you could record them onto MD, so they don't need to be played
again - this might allow you to edit out serious scratches, too - if you
have the patience).

In short - I would suspect that buying an expensive cartridge and stylus
would not be money well spent.

--
Regards,
Dave


http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one
  #5   Report Post  
Kalman Rubinson
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

On 5 Dec 2003 17:49:03 -0800, (Sudhir) wrote:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable

snip
So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


Play them once and transfer them to hard-disc or CDR.

1 Recommendations from other users, as to which will be a better buy
for me, Stanton type or Flip-Over type ?


Better buy? You answered that in your cost analysis. If you can get a
cheap flip over, it will cost less than the magnetic cartridge.

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.

3 Very Important: The Ceramic BSR or Tetrad cartridges
have only a small screw to attach them to the tonearm. Can I
just screw them to a regular (Standard or 1/2 inch capable
tonearm) or do I need special Head Shell ?


Many of them came with a bracket that had the 1/2 spaced holes for
the headshell.

4 Do I need Re-Equilizer to reverse the RIAA curve


No. Just use a regular line input, not the phono input.

I read it 78rpm.com, that it is good to have one and
they want to sell to the visitors a a unit, priced at $290


Haven't been there. Does it apply alternative EQs?

My amplifier has the input jack for turntable, which
am currently using for a Technics unit (play Vinyls), so
assume that even for Cermaic Cartridges (low out-put),
I won't need a Pre-Amplifier.


The ceramics and the magnetics use different inputs.

5 Any other recommendations ?


Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.

Kal


  #6   Report Post  
Kalman Rubinson
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

On 5 Dec 2003 17:49:03 -0800, (Sudhir) wrote:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable

snip
So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


Play them once and transfer them to hard-disc or CDR.

1 Recommendations from other users, as to which will be a better buy
for me, Stanton type or Flip-Over type ?


Better buy? You answered that in your cost analysis. If you can get a
cheap flip over, it will cost less than the magnetic cartridge.

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.

3 Very Important: The Ceramic BSR or Tetrad cartridges
have only a small screw to attach them to the tonearm. Can I
just screw them to a regular (Standard or 1/2 inch capable
tonearm) or do I need special Head Shell ?


Many of them came with a bracket that had the 1/2 spaced holes for
the headshell.

4 Do I need Re-Equilizer to reverse the RIAA curve


No. Just use a regular line input, not the phono input.

I read it 78rpm.com, that it is good to have one and
they want to sell to the visitors a a unit, priced at $290


Haven't been there. Does it apply alternative EQs?

My amplifier has the input jack for turntable, which
am currently using for a Technics unit (play Vinyls), so
assume that even for Cermaic Cartridges (low out-put),
I won't need a Pre-Amplifier.


The ceramics and the magnetics use different inputs.

5 Any other recommendations ?


Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.

Kal
  #7   Report Post  
Kalman Rubinson
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

On 5 Dec 2003 17:49:03 -0800, (Sudhir) wrote:

78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question
=========================================

I am planning to buy a 78 rpm turntable

snip
So the stylus has to be be replaced after may be
600 to 1000 plays.


Play them once and transfer them to hard-disc or CDR.

1 Recommendations from other users, as to which will be a better buy
for me, Stanton type or Flip-Over type ?


Better buy? You answered that in your cost analysis. If you can get a
cheap flip over, it will cost less than the magnetic cartridge.

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.

3 Very Important: The Ceramic BSR or Tetrad cartridges
have only a small screw to attach them to the tonearm. Can I
just screw them to a regular (Standard or 1/2 inch capable
tonearm) or do I need special Head Shell ?


Many of them came with a bracket that had the 1/2 spaced holes for
the headshell.

4 Do I need Re-Equilizer to reverse the RIAA curve


No. Just use a regular line input, not the phono input.

I read it 78rpm.com, that it is good to have one and
they want to sell to the visitors a a unit, priced at $290


Haven't been there. Does it apply alternative EQs?

My amplifier has the input jack for turntable, which
am currently using for a Technics unit (play Vinyls), so
assume that even for Cermaic Cartridges (low out-put),
I won't need a Pre-Amplifier.


The ceramics and the magnetics use different inputs.

5 Any other recommendations ?


Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.

Kal
  #8   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.


Ortofon has moving coil as well as moving magnet cartridges for 78 rpm
records, the moving magnet cartridge appears to be highly
cost-efficient.

Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.


IMO seriousness starts with the Ortofon OM78 moving magnet, I'm gonna
get me one eventually and then remove the high frequency compensation
from a NAD pp1 preamp purchased with just that mod in mind. Switchable
EQ does not seem all that relevant in this day and age of digital
options, but getting it "less wrong" does make sense.

I think the point has been made occasionally that a stereo recording of
a mono record, i. e. using a cartridge wired for stereo, can be helpful
in case one groove wall is less deteriorated than the other.

Kal



Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #9   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.


Ortofon has moving coil as well as moving magnet cartridges for 78 rpm
records, the moving magnet cartridge appears to be highly
cost-efficient.

Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.


IMO seriousness starts with the Ortofon OM78 moving magnet, I'm gonna
get me one eventually and then remove the high frequency compensation
from a NAD pp1 preamp purchased with just that mod in mind. Switchable
EQ does not seem all that relevant in this day and age of digital
options, but getting it "less wrong" does make sense.

I think the point has been made occasionally that a stereo recording of
a mono record, i. e. using a cartridge wired for stereo, can be helpful
in case one groove wall is less deteriorated than the other.

Kal



Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #10   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default 78 rpm Turntable, Cartridges and stylus / Few Question

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

2 Are there any other brands of Stylus and corresponding Cartridge
which I can use ? If so, please give model #s merchant's name


Look at the Shure and Grado websites for models and dealer
recommendations.


Ortofon has moving coil as well as moving magnet cartridges for 78 rpm
records, the moving magnet cartridge appears to be highly
cost-efficient.

Try not to be too cheap if you are going to spend a lot of your time
and interest on this effort.


IMO seriousness starts with the Ortofon OM78 moving magnet, I'm gonna
get me one eventually and then remove the high frequency compensation
from a NAD pp1 preamp purchased with just that mod in mind. Switchable
EQ does not seem all that relevant in this day and age of digital
options, but getting it "less wrong" does make sense.

I think the point has been made occasionally that a stereo recording of
a mono record, i. e. using a cartridge wired for stereo, can be helpful
in case one groove wall is less deteriorated than the other.

Kal



Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
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