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Michael Drainer
 
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Default Broadcast sound question

What exactly do you mean by maximum defination? Anytime you are dealing
with the sattelite/broadcast world, it is critical that you keep your output
peak levels below 0 dBm or -20 dBFS. If you are running much hotter, you
WILL get calls from those who receive the downlink. If you are looking to
maximize the percieved "Loudness" of the program material, you can compress
the snot out of the signal then boost the gain but depending on the program
material, you will be doing more harm than good.

MD


"Gian Luca Specchia" wrote in message
...

I'm working for a satellite television that use a mixer Yamaha DM 2000 .
I would like to work with the maximum level possible before clip.....I

mean
near 0 dbfs
Do You think it's wrong or Should I follow another way to achive the

maximum
definition ?

--






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Michael Drainer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Broadcast sound question

What exactly do you mean by maximum defination? Anytime you are dealing
with the sattelite/broadcast world, it is critical that you keep your output
peak levels below 0 dBm or -20 dBFS. If you are running much hotter, you
WILL get calls from those who receive the downlink. If you are looking to
maximize the percieved "Loudness" of the program material, you can compress
the snot out of the signal then boost the gain but depending on the program
material, you will be doing more harm than good.

MD

"Gian Luca Specchia" wrote in message
...

I'm working for a satellite television that use a mixer Yamaha DM 2000 .
I would like to work with the maximum level possible before clip.....I

mean
near 0 dbfs
Do You think it's wrong or Should I follow another way to achive the

maximum
definition ?

--






  #3   Report Post  
Brothermark
 
Posts: n/a
Default Broadcast sound question

What exactly do you mean by maximum defination? Anytime you are dealing
with the sattelite/broadcast world, it is critical that you keep your output
peak levels below 0 dBm or -20 dBFS. If you are running much hotter, you
WILL get calls from those who receive the downlink. If you are looking to
maximize the percieved "Loudness" of the program material, you can compress
the snot out of the signal then boost the gain but depending on the program
material, you will be doing more harm than good.


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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Broadcast sound question

Gian Luca Specchia wrote:

I'm working for a satellite television that use a mixer Yamaha DM 2000 .
I would like to work with the maximum level possible before clip.....I mean
near 0 dbfs


Why? If you are working that close to the line, you have to be very careful
not to go over the limit. Leave yourself some headroom.

Do You think it's wrong or Should I follow another way to achive the maximum
definition ?


Most of the video guys keep peaks around -20dBFS. This gives you some room
to play if things go wrong. And with a 16 bit system keeping peaks at -20,
you still have 76 dB of dynamic range to play with, which is a lot more than
any TV program will ever use.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Marc Wielage
 
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Default Broadcast sound question

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:47:06 -0700, Gian Luca Specchia wrote
(in message ):

I'm working for a satellite television that use a mixer Yamaha DM 2000 .
I would like to work with the maximum level possible before clip.....I mean
near 0 dbfs...
-----------------------------snip----------------------------


Some of the other messages in this thread are incorrect, or at least far
beyond my experience here in LA. The specs typically given for most of the
American cable/sat services to which I've delivered jobs (particularly HBO
and Showtime) usually request an operating level of -20 dB on a digital
scale, with maximum peaks no louder than -10. I assume we're talking about a
standard Lt/Rt stereo mix, as opposed to 5.1 surround.

I have seen shows rejected for air when explosive peaks exceeded -8, but
they'll usually allow you to go a little bit beyond -10, especially if it's
under rare occasions. Home video mixes will usually give you a little more
leeway, but I would make sure the maximum peaks are at least a couple of dB's
under 0. And foreign deliverables seem to come under more scrutiny than
domestic, for some reason.

Dialog intelligibility is actually a much bigger concern. Some networks have
average levels at which they'd like to see their dialog (typically -30 to
-22, or thereabouts), but a lot of that is a question of taste and intent.

For more, check over on the "Post" section of the Digidesign User Conference;
I've seen several good discussions of "acceptable broadcast levels" over
there. Also, you should ask the specific satellite TV network you're dealing
with for a written copy of their specs, just so that you know precisely what
they expect from you as far as channel assignments, set-up tones, identifying
slates, average levels, peak levels, and so on.

--MFW




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Gian Luca Specchia
 
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Default R: Broadcast sound question



And with a 16 bit system keeping peaks at -20,
you still have 76 dB of dynamic range to play with, which is a lot more

than
any TV program will ever use.


Consider guys that the system has 24 bits...........and onair (we do use
mpeg 2 compression) the sound is low in level.
This kind of broadcast has a poor level....if I reach the maximum peak
of -20dbfs nobody will hear the program unless the television has a volume
setted at the maximum.......

Thanks To everyone.........



  #7   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default R: Broadcast sound question

Gian Luca Specchia wrote:
And with a 16 bit system keeping peaks at -20,
you still have 76 dB of dynamic range to play with, which is a lot more

than
any TV program will ever use.


Consider guys that the system has 24 bits...........and onair (we do use
mpeg 2 compression) the sound is low in level.


That sounds like you need some limiting somewhere, then. Cranking the
level on the distributed program up won't buy you anything since the
AVC box on the transmitter airchain will just turn it back down again.

This kind of broadcast has a poor level....if I reach the maximum peak
of -20dbfs nobody will hear the program unless the television has a volume
setted at the maximum.......


Then use some limiting to bring average levels up while keeping peak levels
low.

Turning up the volume won't do you any good since the AVC will just turn it
back down. Processing is your only real answer to bring average levels up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #10   Report Post  
Gian Luca Specchia
 
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Default R: Broadcast sound question



I can use either the peak meter of the consolle and a vu
meter..........consider this:
a tipical vu meter has 0vu at -20 dbfs if I reach the 0vu means that I have
12 db's more and this means -8 or -7 depending on the peak.....I don't want
to be fixed on 0dbfs my question regarded only occasionally peaks......
thanks for your answers you are very precious..............






  #11   Report Post  
Gian Luca Specchia
 
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Default R: Broadcast sound question



My friend, you are screwing up the audio because you don't know the
difference between a peak reading meter and a VU meter.

I know Will.....maybe I'm little confused my head is about to exploding.
Peak meter read the peaks of the program level....Vu read the avarege level
without reading the peaks, strictly speaking about sound material the
difference between the instruments is about -8db ( that's why usually 0vu
correspond to-9 of Ppm or -8 if you are working with nagra).
Some souncraft's consolle mounted a led integrated in the vu shell to achive
the operator to see the peaks with the vu indication.......

thanks man....... don't you think that the word dude is ancient.....??? :-)



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