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#81
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wrote in message ups.com... Predrag, Where can I get that Best of Bijelo Dugme CD you mentioned? Those guys are awesome! Thanks, Gord Probably all over ex-Yugoslavia. I bought mine in a supermarket in Rijeka. Cost 69 Kn, under $12. The original label is www.musicstar.co.yu The croatian label www.menartrecords.com distributes it under license. It's a compilation of the second part of their career, the last three albums, after they left Jugoton (today Croatia Records) and formed their own label. The original masters went missing after Goran Bregovic's flat in Sarajevo got plundered during the war. He had to collect the copies from radio station archives, friends etc. for this compilation. A few cuts were transferred from vinyl, which brings us back to topic, hehehe. I despised it at the time, it all sounded so archaic and decadent to my ears full with U2 and Simple Minds. Too much folk. I can't get enough of it now. World music. Croatia Records reissued the first six or so albums, too. Predrag |
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#82
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Vinyl_Believer wrote:
I was listening to Live at Leeds on vinyl a few months back...... It was not a great pressing but the music sounded great. What blew me away was the way that Entwistle played like a bass and 2nd guitar part at the same time. I did a double take with my ears......That group really jived live. VB Check out the Who's segment on the Rolling Stone's Rock & Roll Circus reissue DVD. -- -- John Noll Retromedia Sound Studios Red Bank, NJ http://www.retromedia.net |
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#83
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"Vinyl_Believer" wrote in message oups.com... I can tell you through expericence that with transfers to 16/44, the midrange really suffers regardless of the source. And I don't agree with you that the rich midrange of vinyl is a result of lack of lows and highs. But everytime I bring up listening to vinyl on this newsgroup I get attacked by people who haven't even heard a record in probably 20 years...... So pardon me if I over-reacted. Well, for my 'two cents'... I still have a couple of dwindling shelves of vinyl, I don't really do transfers, I either buy a cd re-release, burn a cd of the metal cassette I made years ago, or, most often, I just listen to the record. I've said it before, theory and listening tests aside, for the vast majority of listeneners, a CD has superior sound because they aren't as scratched up. Depending on the player, you can mess up a CD really badly and still hear every note in perfect clarity. A CD can get very dusty and you can still hear every note in perfect clarity. And playing them on normal, consumer-grade gear doesn't mess them up. What sucks about CD's is that the art and lyric sheet is very small. But at least they have some. jb |
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#84
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"Vinyl_Believer" wrote in message oups.com... My apologies Geoff........ I thought you were criticizing the listener for his enjoying the rich midrange of vinyl........ On another post you observed the same as he...... "Didn't those early Telarcs have beautiful sweet midrange on vinyl" I can tell you through expericence that with transfers to 16/44, the midrange really suffers regardless of the source. And I don't agree with you that the rich midrange of vinyl is a result of lack of lows and highs. But everytime I bring up listening to vinyl on this newsgroup I get attacked by people who haven't even heard a record in probably 20 years...... So pardon me if I over-reacted. The point(s) I was , admittedly obliquely, try to make we The early Telarcs were originally digital recordings, and 14-bitters at that ! Surely a digital playback from that digital master could be considered definitive. And if the vinyl playback has 'improved midrange sweetness' over the digital playback (CD from same master) , then that sweetness is by definition distortion from either the vinyl cutting, media properties, or playback artifacts/equipment. geoff |
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#86
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In article .com,
says... Vinyl_Believer wrote: Just curious what the pro audio community is listening to these days (professionally or for pleasure) that bends your ear. Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Winter, Glass Harp (Phil Keaggy) guitar heros. rd, Have you listened to Phil Keaggy since the Glass Harp days? http://philkeaggy.com/ One of my all time favorites is the dueling solos between Phil on guitar and Richard Souther (keyboards) on the extended live version of the song - "Time" on the album - "How The West Was One by 2nd Chapter of Acts and Phil Keaggy" http://www.2ndchapterofacts.com/keaggy/ David Casual listening: Who, Steppenwolf, Todd Snider, Zappa (Jazz From Hell) and Spirit. I've been transferring a lot of Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab records for a client and today I transferred Gordon Lightfoot's Sundown (MFSL-1-018) I hadn't hear Gordon Lightfoot for a while and what a tremendous Balladeer he is! What a voice. Very nice productions too. Acoustic guitars sound great, though some of the String section parts are a little 70s syrupy. Really enjoyed hearing him again. And hearing him on high quality vinyl is the right way to hear the music, though I am biased...... MFSL records really sound great and pretty cheap on Ebay...... here's their catalog......http://www.aurealm.com/blue.htm Of course that's what this thread is really about. I try not to get hung up listening to converters (or a stylus, as the case may be) and listen to the music itself. Certainly for critical listening this is imperative and for casual listening irrelevant. BTW..... A short while ago I transferred the entire MFSL Beatles Collection. Almost a religious experience! Stunning clarity and 'presense'. You hear things that you've never heard before. I should make an exception in the case of Abbey Road since it's being used as a reference. Is there a better version on CD I should have ? rd -- From David Troxell - Product Scope 32 PRO - Encourager Software Email - Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html http://www.encouragersoftware.com/ |
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#87
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"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
The early Telarcs were originally digital recordings, and 14-bitters at that ! http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/m...02galo2169.pdf "Also noteworthy was the digital recording system used by Telarc, the Soundstream recorder designed by Dr. Thomas Stockham. Audiophiles were clearly divided on the merits of digital audio, and for years to come many would proclaim the virtues of analog sound. Indeed, many still do! "One thing was certain, however. Stockham's Soundstream recorder was well ahead of other digital recording systems in use at that time. To those of us who found Denon's digitally- mastered LPs of that period excruciatingly bad, the Soundstream recorder was a revelation, making a strong case for the potential of digital audio. "The Soundstream recorder was surprisingly advanced by late 1970s' standards. The sampling frequency was 50kHz, higher than what would be adopted a few years later for the Compact Disc. In addition, the system offered 16-bit performance at a time when anything over 14-bits was thought to be impractical. Surely a digital playback from that digital master could be considered definitive. Haven't all Telarc LPs been cut from digital recordings? And if the vinyl playback has 'improved midrange sweetness' over the digital playback (CD from same master) , then that sweetness is by definition distortion from either the vinyl cutting, media properties, or playback artifacts/equipment. It's a matter of someone in essence preferring a re-mastering, not the superiority of LP media. |
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#88
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In article , Geoff Wood wrote:
The early Telarcs were originally digital recordings, and 14-bitters at that ! Surely a digital playback from that digital master could be considered definitive. I thought the Stockham machine claimed 16 bits? I doubt it had 16 _monotonic_ bits, but I thought it at least stored 16. Sheesh, now I gotta go look it up. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#89
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In article .com,
"RD Jones" wrote: david correia wrote: Just got "Live at Leeds." The reissue has a bunch of new songs on it. Hadn't heard the album in years - was a fave of my roommate by in college. Damn, Townshend's feel on lotsa that record is sooo perfect. What a surprise to get off more on a guitar player's wonderful sense of time than on their histrionics or soloing. Really nice full kick drum sound from Moon too. One of the All Time Best live recordings. Heaven And Hell was the Who's show opener for years and a Bside gem. Nice version on L@L. Is the reissue you have a 2 CD with the whole Tommy opera ? rd No, it's just one CD with the same cover as the original record, but consists of 14 cuts. I saw them do Tommy outside live at Tanglewood in western Mass around the same time. Supposedly was their last US performance of it. Very moving. The opening act for the show was It's a Beautiful Day with a wild fiddle player who's name is hiding in some part of my brain, followed by Jethro Tull with Ian Anderson going nuts, and then Townshend and the Who. 3 very, very visual performers. When the show was over it was pretty late and no one in the audience wanted to go anywhere, as the place is pretty idyllic and you were miles from anyplace, but the Tanglewood people were pretty interested in getting all the damn hippies off the grounds. David Correia www.Celebrationsound.com |
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#90
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david correia wrote:
The opening act for the show was It's a Beautiful Day with a wild fiddle player who's name is hiding in some part of my brain David LaFlame -- ha |
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#91
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That would have been July 7th 1970
..........http://www.thewho.net/concertguide/1970/ The Who is one band that I missed and regret. My sister did see their infamous show in Atlanta 1975 where Moon was too messed to play and they had someone from the audience sit in! I used to see Jethro Tull whenever I could. Wild shows and rockin' band........ Jethro Tull concert history here ......... http://www.ministry-of-information.c...etlist/70b.htm Anyone else have old concert history links? It's a fun way for oldtimers like me to mark dates. VB |
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#92
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On 13 Aug 2005 23:40:07 -0700, "Vinyl_Believer"
wrote: Anyone else have old concert history links? It's a fun way for oldtimers like me to mark dates. Not linkable, but was talking to another local recently, and discovered that we'd both been to all of the shows in that era, and both settled on the Golden Earring show as the most story-worthy. The drummer did his very dangerous leap *over* his drums all the way to the stage floor, and injured himself. They pulled the stage wash to black, but kept the follow on the the guy for quite a while, as he tried to exit house right, pretty much crawling. We were pretty innocent of stagecraft thirty years ago, but could understand a major ****up without coaching. Except.... was it part of the show....? Now *that* was an era, Chris Hornbeck |
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#93
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message "The Soundstream recorder was surprisingly advanced by late 1970s' standards. The sampling frequency was 50kHz, higher than what would be adopted a few years later for the Compact Disc. In addition, the system offered 16-bit performance at a time when anything over 14-bits was thought to be impractical. So how come Bop Till You Drop is so excruciatingly bad ? geoff |
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#94
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"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message "The Soundstream recorder was surprisingly advanced by late 1970s' standards. The sampling frequency was 50kHz, higher than what would be adopted a few years later for the Compact Disc. In addition, the system offered 16-bit performance at a time when anything over 14-bits was thought to be impractical. So how come Bop Till You Drop is so excruciatingly bad ? Is it bad? I have a copy and love the music. Bop Till You Drop was done on a 3M recorder. The 3M recorder required careful manual adjustment to be monotonic. The non-monotic bits may be noticable if you look at the recroding carefully with a DAW. |
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#95
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message So how come Bop Till You Drop is so excruciatingly bad ? Is it bad? I have a copy and love the music. Bop Till You Drop was done on a 3M recorder. The 3M recorder required careful manual adjustment to be monotonic. The non-monotic bits may be noticable if you look at the recroding carefully with a DAW. The music is 'tastic. It's just the drowning in quantisation noise that is so annoying. You could even hear it on the LP. I thought it was Soundstream, but know 3M rings a bell. geoff |
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#96
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In article , Geoff Wood wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message So how come Bop Till You Drop is so excruciatingly bad ? Is it bad? I have a copy and love the music. Bop Till You Drop was done on a 3M recorder. The 3M recorder required careful manual adjustment to be monotonic. The non-monotic bits may be noticable if you look at the recroding carefully with a DAW. The music is 'tastic. It's just the drowning in quantisation noise that is so annoying. You could even hear it on the LP. I thought it was Soundstream, but know 3M rings a bell. The Soundstream put two tracks on a U-Matic tape... you can think of it as sort of an earlier version of the 1610 sort of thing. The 3M machines started out with a two-track box, and I think they got all the way up to a 32-track machine. These used 1" instrumentation transports with fixed heads, as I recall. Somewhere I have pieces of a Colossus around here. I keep meaning to donate it to the AES historical guys, if I can find it. It's in the garage somewhere. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#97
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#98
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1124030270k@trad In article writes: Bop Till You Drop was done on a 3M recorder. The 3M recorder required careful manual adjustment to be monotonic. The non-monotic bits may be noticable if you look at the recroding carefully with a DAW. Does this increase your enjoyment of the music? Neither increase nor decrease. I like the music and I don't think the fidelity is all that bad. |
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#99
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reddred wrote: "nmm" wrote in message ups.com... reddred wrote: Let's Active - 'Cypress/Afoot' Is that on the album that came out in the 80s? I had "every word means no" in my itunes folder for the last few months. Great band Mitch Easter. Yeah, 'Cypress/Afoot' is the 'Cypress' LP combined with the 'Afoot' EP, which that song comes from. Cypress is one of those 'desert island discs' for me. Any idea what Mitch Easter is up to these days?.. I remember that video for "Waters Part" where he had every cool guitar in one video. Swell Maps, Havent heard that in awhile! Are those records in print? http://www.alive-totalenergy.com/SwellMaps.html I didn't realise that they were but they are. jb |
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#100
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"nmm" wrote in message oups.com... reddred wrote: "nmm" wrote in message ups.com... reddred wrote: Let's Active - 'Cypress/Afoot' Is that on the album that came out in the 80s? I had "every word means no" in my itunes folder for the last few months. Great band Mitch Easter. Yeah, 'Cypress/Afoot' is the 'Cypress' LP combined with the 'Afoot' EP, which that song comes from. Cypress is one of those 'desert island discs' for me. Any idea what Mitch Easter is up to these days?.. I remember that video for "Waters Part" where he had every cool guitar in one video. I think he's mixing in a studio in North Carolina jb |
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#101
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David Troxell - Encourager Software wrote: rd, Have you listened to Phil Keaggy since the Glass Harp days? http://philkeaggy.com/ Sure, Phil has been quite prolific in his solo career. I have seen a few of the (Glass Harp) reunion shows over the years, most recently one in Nashville, and another a few years earlier in Akron. Phil was the first person I saw perform live playing a guitar, we were in grade school and he was a couple years ahead of me. One of my all time favorites is the dueling solos between Phil on guitar and Richard Souther (keyboards) on the extended live version of the song - "Time" on the album - "How The West Was One by 2nd Chapter of Acts and Phil Keaggy" Yes, I have heard that one but I don't have the CD. It's typical of his approach to playing in a band. Most of the old Harp shows were heavy on 'jamming'. Check out the "Live at Carnegie Hall" release. rd |
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#102
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In article .com,
"Vinyl_Believer" wrote: That would have been July 7th 1970 .........http://www.thewho.net/concertguide/1970/ The Who is one band that I missed and regret. My sister did see their infamous show in Atlanta 1975 where Moon was too messed to play and they had someone from the audience sit in! I used to see Jethro Tull whenever I could. Wild shows and rockin' band........ Jethro Tull concert history here ......... http://www.ministry-of-information.c...etlist/70b.htm Anyone else have old concert history links? It's a fun way for oldtimers like me to mark dates. VB Thanks for the links! Damn am I old! ; There are some for Hendrix as well. But I know one of them has at least one mistake it has on it - a show at Brown U. in Providence in 1968 that is listed as happening in Worcester, MA. Jimi came back to Providence in 1969 where I got to experience him live. I never heard about the Brown show til after it had happened. (Hey, I was in high school, not college.) About 5 years ago I met the guy who did the live sound for the Brown show. He still hasn't gotten over it. Said Jimi casually walked onto the small stage to a hail of joints. He reached down, picked one up, lit it, took a big hit and thanked the crowd. Then tore into the first song. At the end of it, while everyone was applauding and screaming, he walked over to this poor guy, who was set up right on the side of the stage. Jimi screamed at him that if he didn't turn the ****ing sound up, he was leaving. For you kiddies, in 1968 a rock show's PA's were nothing like they are today, especially in a smallish college gym. All this guy had was a simple mixer, amp and a pair of speakers. He'd already been ****ting his pants during the first song cuz of the volume. And the poor guy had no backup gear at all. If that amp fried, the show was over. He had no choice. With Hendrix staring right at him, he turned it upand started to pray for his life as Hendrix banged into the second tune. Lucky for him, it never blew. I heard this story from him about 30 years after it happened. And you could tell the guy was still shaking a little while he told it. David Correia www.Celebrationsound.com |
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#103
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#104
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:14:59 -0400, david correia wrote:
For you kiddies, in 1968 a rock show's PA's were nothing like they are today, especially in a smallish college gym. All this guy had was a simple mixer, amp and a pair of speakers. He'd already been ****ting his pants during the first song cuz of the volume. And the poor guy had no backup gear at all. If that amp fried, the show was over. He had no choice. With Hendrix staring right at him, he turned it upand started to pray for his life as Hendrix banged into the second tune. Lucky for him, it never blew. I heard this story from him about 30 years after it happened. And you could tell the guy was still shaking a little while he told it. Are you sure about this story? It doesn't sound like the Hendrix I met. He would have found himself an acoustic guitar and carried on that way. Maybe his attitude was different here in Britain where he was given his big break. d |
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#106
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In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:14:59 -0400, david correia wrote: For you kiddies, in 1968 a rock show's PA's were nothing like they are today, especially in a smallish college gym. All this guy had was a simple mixer, amp and a pair of speakers. He'd already been ****ting his pants during the first song cuz of the volume. And the poor guy had no backup gear at all. If that amp fried, the show was over. He had no choice. With Hendrix staring right at him, he turned it upand started to pray for his life as Hendrix banged into the second tune. Lucky for him, it never blew. I heard this story from him about 30 years after it happened. And you could tell the guy was still shaking a little while he told it. Are you sure about this story? It doesn't sound like the Hendrix I met. He would have found himself an acoustic guitar and carried on that way. Maybe his attitude was different here in Britain where he was given his big break. d The guy who told it also owned what was probably the only recording studio in Rhode Island at the time (on Reservoir Avenue in Cranston). I had no doubt he wasn't shootin' the ****. David Correia www.Celebrationsound.com |
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#107
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Vinyl_Believer wrote:
The Benchmarks sound great and I'd hardly call them 'bargin' units. But I will aspire for a Prism.  .... What converters are you using btw.You're saying that when you record into the thing from vinyl, the output sounds lifeless in comparison with the input. I would not call that "great." In fact, I would call that unacceptable, personally. Most of the time these days I am using the Prism AD-124, but I will say that the higher end Lavry converters are just as good, and the Meitner stuff is also impressive. I went with the Prism over the others mostly because of the ability to dither down to 16 bits accurately in the box without having to go through any more hardware. One thing I've found in my transferring is how much difference converters do make. But I find, as Paul Stamler once pointed out, that the better the quality converters the more I can hear the flaws in 16/44. (lack of accurate representaion of freq. ranges and loss of dimension) are quite evident to my ears. 24/96 is MUCH better but I can still hear a difference from the source. What about 16/96? What about 24/44? The sad part is that the general public is listening to real crap with most 16/44 CD setups. But I'm not sure they give a crap anyway. Yes, but most of that is due to source material issues, which are so severe that they override any other concerns. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#108
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Vinyl_Believer wrote: The Benchmarks sound great and I'd hardly call them 'bargin' units. But I will aspire for a Prism. .... What converters are you using btw.You're saying that when you record into the thing from vinyl, the output sounds lifeless in comparison with the input. The Benchmarks sound great at 24/96 as I originally stated. At 16/44 I hear resolution problems.... 'Lifeless' was your slant, but I'll agree with your description. I would not call that "great." In fact, I would call that unacceptable, personally. Couldn't agree with you more. Most of the time these days I am using the Prism AD-124, but I will say that the higher end Lavry converters are just as good, and the Meitner stuff is also impressive. I went with the Prism over the others mostly because of the ability to dither down to 16 bits accurately in the box without having to go through any more hardware. I've heard both, and I'd agree that they are superior to the benchmark and mytek. Very smooth..... Have not heard the Meitner stuff. One thing I've found in my transferring is how much difference converters do make. But I find, as Paul Stamler once pointed out, that the better the quality converters the more I can hear the flaws in 16/44. (lack of accurate representaion of freq. ranges and loss of dimension) are quite evident to my ears. 24/96 is MUCH better but I can still hear a difference from the source. What about 16/96? What about 24/44? Ask Paul Stamler. That's who you're responding too. The sad part is that the general public is listening to real crap with most 16/44 CD setups. But I'm not sure they give a crap anyway. Yes, but most of that is due to source material issues, which are so severe that they override any other concerns. --scott Couldn't agree with you more. But who's responsible for this junk? ......... This is a pro audio waterinig hole. Does the Buck Stop Here? VB |
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