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#41
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Opinions may vary but I think Jimmy Page deserves to be mentioned.
Tommy B wrote: Jim, if you are putting Arif and Jerry in, don't exclude Tommy Dowd. Tom "Jim Klein" wrote in message om... Hi RAP'ers - I'm developing the syllabus and curriculum for a course I'll be teaching in the Spring called "Survey of Modern Production Techniques", which will look at the evolution of modern record production from the late 50's/early 60's up to the present day. With two classes per week over a ten week term, I think there will be some opportunity to look at many of the important producers and their work, to listen and analyze what made each one important to the advancement of the art. I'm compiling a list of important producers and records, and I'd love to get some input from you guys. I'm trying to keep my personal taste out of it, which is why I've included David Foster, for example. While I'm not fond of most of his productions, I do believe that he helped shape the sound of pop music in the late 70's and 80's (acoustic piano doubled with Rhodes, anyone?). Anyway, I'd appreciate any input from you guys. Eventually, I would like to weed the list down to 20 -25 producers with 1-3 songs each, and really try to quantify each one's contribution. Here's my list so far: Les Paul Jerry Wexler George Martin Berry Gordy Joe Meek Phil Spector Brian Wilson George Massenberg Waronker/Titleman George Clinton Brian Eno Daniel Lanois Prince Teddy Riley Rick Rubin Arif Mardin David Foster Mutt Lange Bill Laswell Trevor Horn I have no agenda here, other than to get this right and give the kids the best class for their money, so feel free to disagree with my choices and offer better ones. Thanks a bunch for the help Jim Klein Assistant Professor, Music Industry Drexel University |
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#42
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On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:47:08 -0400, bluesrock03
wrote: Opinions may vary but I think Jimmy Page deserves to be mentioned. Why did you include *name of producer you think is overrated* But not *name of producer you think is under appreciated* Any list like this needs to be finite. Moreover, even Classical musicians ebb and flow in their perceived "greatness." A satirical book on the subject put it this way: "There are four musicians who qualify as "Great".. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and your personal favorite." I'd wager the same rule applies here. |
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#43
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On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:47:08 -0400, bluesrock03
wrote: Opinions may vary but I think Jimmy Page deserves to be mentioned. Why did you include *name of producer you think is overrated* But not *name of producer you think is under appreciated* Any list like this needs to be finite. Moreover, even Classical musicians ebb and flow in their perceived "greatness." A satirical book on the subject put it this way: "There are four musicians who qualify as "Great".. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and your personal favorite." I'd wager the same rule applies here. |
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#44
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Bob Clearmountain
Tony Visconti are important to me also..... |
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#46
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Why are only Pop and Jazz producers included.....
Rgds: Eric |
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#47
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Why are only Pop and Jazz producers included.....
Rgds: Eric |
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#48
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Eric K. Weber wrote:
Why are only Pop and Jazz producers included..... Rgds: Eric Pop and jazz have a much more critical dependency on recording technology than other forms. -- Les Cargill |
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#49
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Eric K. Weber wrote:
Why are only Pop and Jazz producers included..... Rgds: Eric Pop and jazz have a much more critical dependency on recording technology than other forms. -- Les Cargill |
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#50
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Don't forget the invaluable contributions of Jacob Roney!
Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
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#51
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Don't forget the invaluable contributions of Jacob Roney!
Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
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#52
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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:05:18 GMT, Les Cargill
wrote: Those guys were mostly consistent with the mores of the time. We can't sit here and assume we know better just because we can review the accumulated work and pick favorites. And why can't we??? Standing the test of time is the *ultimate* way to evaluate music and musical production I'd say. Some recordings remain timeless while others sound impossibly dated and hack. Al |
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#53
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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:05:18 GMT, Les Cargill
wrote: Those guys were mostly consistent with the mores of the time. We can't sit here and assume we know better just because we can review the accumulated work and pick favorites. And why can't we??? Standing the test of time is the *ultimate* way to evaluate music and musical production I'd say. Some recordings remain timeless while others sound impossibly dated and hack. Al |
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#55
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We should maybe include some of the better-known Jamaican producers on
this list. People like Lee Perry and King Tubby have been incredibly influential on a younger generation of producers and musicians. It could be argued that Lee Perry practically invented trip-hop... he was also responsible for Bob Marley really finding his sound (Marley stole Perry's house rhythm section). Many contemporary productions owe a large debt to Jamaican dub music... those guys knew how to make mononaural recordings sound huge. Al On 30 Sep 2004 23:15:56 -0700, (Mikey) wrote: Jim Klein wrote in message ... Just so everyone is clear, the focus of the course is going to be on producers who had an impact on how records were made, primarily on studio technique. Les Paul is important as a pioneer in overdubbing, for example. I'm in the process of researching some of the important breakthroughs, so I'd appreciate it if anyone that is intimately familiar with some of this history share that knowledge.... I am having a hard time pinpointing just who figured out things like doubling, varispeeding (Ross Bagdazarian, maybe?), using room mics, recording tons of background vocal tracks and then bouncing... There are so many of these techniques that are now taken for granted. of late: Trent Reznor (I hated most NIN, but do respect Reznor's work as producer) Can't forget about Dre, either. I wholeheartedly agree with the Templeman choice. Most of the early '70's Warner Bros. catalog is stunning, IMO. Philly Soul should be represented, IMO, as should Nashville in the early 90's. 80's new wave/pop, also - the uses of synths, drum machines, sequencers. Cool thread. Mikey Wozniak Nova Music Productions This sig is haiku |
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#56
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On 1 Oct 2004 11:15:47 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
In article , play on playonATcomcast.net wrote: On 30 Sep 2004 21:54:01 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: You know, I think it's also important to talk about Mitch Miller. He did some good things and some really bad things, and you can argue that he did more than anyone else to keep rock music down, but he certainly made a very significant impact on pop music even if it wasn't necessarily a good one. So did Chet Atkins. But if you were to list tasteless producers, the list is a long one... Yes, but most tasteless producers didn't have anywhere _near_ the impact. Mitch gets credit for being one of the most significant producers of his era, AND having the lack of taste. He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... |
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#57
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On 1 Oct 2004 11:15:47 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
In article , play on playonATcomcast.net wrote: On 30 Sep 2004 21:54:01 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: You know, I think it's also important to talk about Mitch Miller. He did some good things and some really bad things, and you can argue that he did more than anyone else to keep rock music down, but he certainly made a very significant impact on pop music even if it wasn't necessarily a good one. So did Chet Atkins. But if you were to list tasteless producers, the list is a long one... Yes, but most tasteless producers didn't have anywhere _near_ the impact. Mitch gets credit for being one of the most significant producers of his era, AND having the lack of taste. He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... |
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#58
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"Jim Klein" wrote in message
om... Phil Spector Brian Wilson |
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#59
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"Jim Klein" wrote in message
om... Phil Spector Brian Wilson |
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#60
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play on playonATcomcast.net wrote:
He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... What was significant about Mitch wasn't the stuff he did, but the stuff that he prevented from being done.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#61
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play on playonATcomcast.net wrote:
He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... What was significant about Mitch wasn't the stuff he did, but the stuff that he prevented from being done.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#62
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I think a nod should goto
+ Eddie Offord Ian Anderson ++ Frank Zappa (and most of those involved) ds -- "Dan Chamberlain" wrote in message news:lug7d.302241$Fg5.267421@attbi_s53... Bob Clearmountain Tony Visconti are important to me also..... |
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#63
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I think a nod should goto
+ Eddie Offord Ian Anderson ++ Frank Zappa (and most of those involved) ds -- "Dan Chamberlain" wrote in message news:lug7d.302241$Fg5.267421@attbi_s53... Bob Clearmountain Tony Visconti are important to me also..... |
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#64
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Nobody said Jimmy Miller. David Correia Celebration Sound Warren, Rhode Island www.CelebrationSound.com |
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#65
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Nobody said Jimmy Miller. David Correia Celebration Sound Warren, Rhode Island www.CelebrationSound.com |
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#66
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Joe Boyd.
John Simon [he produced "The Band", an album whose sound was copied wholesale for several years]. Bill Leader. Peace, Paul Stamler |
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#67
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Joe Boyd.
John Simon [he produced "The Band", an album whose sound was copied wholesale for several years]. Bill Leader. Peace, Paul Stamler |
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#68
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#69
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#70
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For lots of imitated studio techniques (or at least sonic techniques), you
might want to think about the Mitchell Froom/Tchad Blake partnership (although I think TB had more to do with the sound). And Steve Albini has had an impact on how things have been done in the past ten years. I also second the poster who recommended Chet Atkins. Myles "Jim Klein" wrote in message om... Hi RAP'ers - I'm developing the syllabus and curriculum for a course I'll be teaching in the Spring called "Survey of Modern Production Techniques", which will look at the evolution of modern record production from the late 50's/early 60's up to the present day. With two classes per week over a ten week term, I think there will be some opportunity to look at many of the important producers and their work, to listen and analyze what made each one important to the advancement of the art. I'm compiling a list of important producers and records, and I'd love to get some input from you guys. I'm trying to keep my personal taste out of it, which is why I've included David Foster, for example. While I'm not fond of most of his productions, I do believe that he helped shape the sound of pop music in the late 70's and 80's (acoustic piano doubled with Rhodes, anyone?). Anyway, I'd appreciate any input from you guys. Eventually, I would like to weed the list down to 20 -25 producers with 1-3 songs each, and really try to quantify each one's contribution. Here's my list so far: Les Paul Jerry Wexler George Martin Berry Gordy Joe Meek Phil Spector Brian Wilson George Massenberg Waronker/Titleman George Clinton Brian Eno Daniel Lanois Prince Teddy Riley Rick Rubin Arif Mardin David Foster Mutt Lange Bill Laswell Trevor Horn I have no agenda here, other than to get this right and give the kids the best class for their money, so feel free to disagree with my choices and offer better ones. Thanks a bunch for the help Jim Klein Assistant Professor, Music Industry Drexel University |
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#71
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For lots of imitated studio techniques (or at least sonic techniques), you
might want to think about the Mitchell Froom/Tchad Blake partnership (although I think TB had more to do with the sound). And Steve Albini has had an impact on how things have been done in the past ten years. I also second the poster who recommended Chet Atkins. Myles "Jim Klein" wrote in message om... Hi RAP'ers - I'm developing the syllabus and curriculum for a course I'll be teaching in the Spring called "Survey of Modern Production Techniques", which will look at the evolution of modern record production from the late 50's/early 60's up to the present day. With two classes per week over a ten week term, I think there will be some opportunity to look at many of the important producers and their work, to listen and analyze what made each one important to the advancement of the art. I'm compiling a list of important producers and records, and I'd love to get some input from you guys. I'm trying to keep my personal taste out of it, which is why I've included David Foster, for example. While I'm not fond of most of his productions, I do believe that he helped shape the sound of pop music in the late 70's and 80's (acoustic piano doubled with Rhodes, anyone?). Anyway, I'd appreciate any input from you guys. Eventually, I would like to weed the list down to 20 -25 producers with 1-3 songs each, and really try to quantify each one's contribution. Here's my list so far: Les Paul Jerry Wexler George Martin Berry Gordy Joe Meek Phil Spector Brian Wilson George Massenberg Waronker/Titleman George Clinton Brian Eno Daniel Lanois Prince Teddy Riley Rick Rubin Arif Mardin David Foster Mutt Lange Bill Laswell Trevor Horn I have no agenda here, other than to get this right and give the kids the best class for their money, so feel free to disagree with my choices and offer better ones. Thanks a bunch for the help Jim Klein Assistant Professor, Music Industry Drexel University |
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#72
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In article playonATcomcast.net writes: He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... I think that the important thing about Mitch Miller is that before him, there really was no role of "producer" as we know it today. The producer was just a bean counter whose only role in getting the record out was to pay the people who were involved. Miller wrote parts, hired musicians, conducted musicians, probably even played on some sessions. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#73
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In article playonATcomcast.net writes: He was influential in his era but the stuff didn't stand the test of time... I think that the important thing about Mitch Miller is that before him, there really was no role of "producer" as we know it today. The producer was just a bean counter whose only role in getting the record out was to pay the people who were involved. Miller wrote parts, hired musicians, conducted musicians, probably even played on some sessions. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#74
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play on wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:05:18 GMT, Les Cargill wrote: Those guys were mostly consistent with the mores of the time. We can't sit here and assume we know better just because we can review the accumulated work and pick favorites. And why can't we??? Standing the test of time is the *ultimate* way to evaluate music and musical production I'd say. Some recordings remain timeless while others sound impossibly dated and hack. Al Because we can't. We just apply a different set of prejudices. There are probably a very few, very weak inter subjective absolutes in music recording, but it's a cultural artifact and not likely to be amenable to canceling out all possible observer bias. Some of those old recordings don't make sense unless you played 'em back on commonly available equipment. Old jukeboxes still make 'em sound good. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about minimalist/documentary styles of recording. In those, there's a way to compare the inputs and outputs. -- Les Cargill |
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#75
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play on wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:05:18 GMT, Les Cargill wrote: Those guys were mostly consistent with the mores of the time. We can't sit here and assume we know better just because we can review the accumulated work and pick favorites. And why can't we??? Standing the test of time is the *ultimate* way to evaluate music and musical production I'd say. Some recordings remain timeless while others sound impossibly dated and hack. Al Because we can't. We just apply a different set of prejudices. There are probably a very few, very weak inter subjective absolutes in music recording, but it's a cultural artifact and not likely to be amenable to canceling out all possible observer bias. Some of those old recordings don't make sense unless you played 'em back on commonly available equipment. Old jukeboxes still make 'em sound good. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about minimalist/documentary styles of recording. In those, there's a way to compare the inputs and outputs. -- Les Cargill |
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#76
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On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 06:20:35 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote: Joe Boyd. John Simon [he produced "The Band", an album whose sound was copied wholesale for several years]. It's a great record, but who copied it at that time? I don't recall many other records sounding like that in the 70s... no compression, no studio reverb, etc. Al |
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#77
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On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 06:20:35 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote: Joe Boyd. John Simon [he produced "The Band", an album whose sound was copied wholesale for several years]. It's a great record, but who copied it at that time? I don't recall many other records sounding like that in the 70s... no compression, no studio reverb, etc. Al |
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#78
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david wrote:
Nobody said Jimmy Miller. Smack 'em up 'side the head! -- ha |
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#79
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david wrote:
Nobody said Jimmy Miller. Smack 'em up 'side the head! -- ha |
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#80
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"playon" wrote in message ... On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 06:20:35 GMT, "Paul Stamler" wrote: Joe Boyd. John Simon [he produced "The Band", an album whose sound was copied wholesale for several years]. It's a great record, but who copied it at that time? I don't recall many other records sounding like that in the 70s... no compression, no studio reverb, etc. From about 1969 through about 1971, there was a whole rash of records trying to imitate The Band in many respects, including vocal intonation (which usually sounded silly) and recording technique (which didn't). I remember reading an interview with Fairport Convention's engineer where he said that on their albums from that period he was always wanting to sneak a little EW or reverb onto, say, a drum track, and "I was always having Levon Helm thrown back at me." Some of the Pub-Rock bands in England recorded that way for a while too. Not necessarily without compression, but with little reverb and EQ. I remember some Brinsley Schwarz records that sounded very un-messed-with. By about 1972 people had resumed their former habits. Peace, Paul |
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