Hello,
I'm going into a studio for a series of sessions in May. I'm going
into a really nice facility. I'm not new to sessions, but this time I'm
going to be doing a wide variety of guitar tracks that require different
guitar/amp/effects set-ups. I'm obviously going to be bringing a decent
ammount of gear with me and a guitar tech. My question is how much set-up
time do you allow before a session? This guy seems to think a half hour is
more than enough and thought anything more is ridiculous. That seems a
little rushed to me even with a guitar tech. I wanted to be able to get all
my guitars out and on the rack tuned ready to go before I hit a note. Now, I
don't expect to take 2 hours to set up. I did however expect an hour to
set-up and get my head together.
Now, I know they probably get a lot of kids in their wasting time
for an hour set-up, but I'm an experienced pro musician who is paying a good
rate (high for where I am) for the sessions. I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up. Thanks!!

--litepipe

A half-hour is standard setup time. You're wanting to burn his clock for
free?



"litepipe" l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote in message
...
Hello,
I'm going into a studio for a series of sessions in May. I'm
going
into a really nice facility. I'm not new to sessions, but this time I'm
going to be doing a wide variety of guitar tracks that require different
guitar/amp/effects set-ups. I'm obviously going to be bringing a decent
ammount of gear with me and a guitar tech. My question is how much set-up
time do you allow before a session? This guy seems to think a half hour is
more than enough and thought anything more is ridiculous. That seems a
little rushed to me even with a guitar tech. I wanted to be able to get
all
my guitars out and on the rack tuned ready to go before I hit a note. Now,
I
don't expect to take 2 hours to set up. I did however expect an hour to
set-up and get my head together.
Now, I know they probably get a lot of kids in their wasting time
for an hour set-up, but I'm an experienced pro musician who is paying a
good
rate (high for where I am) for the sessions. I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up. Thanks!!

--litepipe

litepipe wrote:
Hello,
I'm going into a studio for a series of sessions in May. I'm going
into a really nice facility. I'm not new to sessions, but this time I'm
going to be doing a wide variety of guitar tracks that require different
guitar/amp/effects set-ups. I'm obviously going to be bringing a decent
ammount of gear with me and a guitar tech. My question is how much set-up
time do you allow before a session? This guy seems to think a half hour is
more than enough and thought anything more is ridiculous. That seems a
little rushed to me even with a guitar tech. I wanted to be able to get all
my guitars out and on the rack tuned ready to go before I hit a note. Now, I
don't expect to take 2 hours to set up. I did however expect an hour to
set-up and get my head together.
Now, I know they probably get a lot of kids in their wasting time
for an hour set-up, but I'm an experienced pro musician who is paying a good
rate (high for where I am) for the sessions. I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up. Thanks!!

--litepipe



1/2 hour is fair. You're using a professional facility
for your specific needs. They can't book it to someone
else while you "get your head together". The equipment
is on, the engineer is getting paid and the rent still
needs to be paid.

It doesn't matter if a kid "wasting time" or and
"experience pro musician" is using an hour that is
unpaid for. An hour is an hour.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ 07701

Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

http://www.retromedia.net

I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up.

What's fair is whatever you're willing to pay. I start the clock at the time
the session is booked. I bust my ass during setup (and usually a half an hour
prior) and I charge for it. If you wante to come into my studio and get your
head together for an hour or two, that would be fine by me. It's your nickel.

If, OTOH, you're expecting comped time for setup, graciously accept whatever
the studio manager offers you. Realize that the bank, insurance companies,
employees, utilities, and leasing companies are all still charging the studio
for your setup time.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

"litepipe" wrote in message
...
...I'm an experienced pro musician who is paying a good
rate (high for where I am) for the sessions. I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up. Thanks!!

What do you consider high?

If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

I was thinking an hour is doable.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

"EggHd" wrote in message ...

If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

I was thinking an hour is doable.


I always allow an hour. The last thing I want is a client to feel
pressured... it makes or breaks the mood for days or weeks
to come. OTOH, if the client is set up quickly, I won't keep
him waiting... too long.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"John Noll" wrote in message
...
1/2 hour is fair. You're using a professional facility
for your specific needs. They can't book it to someone
else while you "get your head together". The equipment
is on, the engineer is getting paid and the rent still
needs to be paid.

I do understand this and I'm not trying to get extra or waste their time.
The studio only books one session per day so there isn't anyone that could
using the time if I take a few minutes to get set up. Plus, I booked big
blocks of time.


It doesn't matter if a kid "wasting time" or and
"experience pro musician" is using an hour that is
unpaid for. An hour is an hour.

This is true. I do understand, I was trying to get a vibe as to what the
standard was. A half hour seems a little rushed to me. I'm not looking to
take a nap or anything before I start I just hate having to rush. I like to
be focused and relaxed. Getting relaxed can take only a few minutes, I don't
need forever...but a relaxed environment helps.

--litepipe

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in message
...
If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

Well, I'm not paying over $100 an hour. There are no studios that rate
near me. The rates are considerably higher than other studios in my area.
That's fine as they have a better facility and the staff seems to be very
knowledgable. I booked 10 hour blocks of time for each session. They will be
making a lot of money off of me. With that in mind I would have figured they
would be a little more relaxed. I'm not looking for free time. I don't want
or expect anything for free. I'm more worried about a relaxed environment.
Since we're talking about this I would like to know what the standard
procedure is for breaks in a 10 hour session. There are going to be several
sessions where I'm going to be tracking the entire 10 hours. What about
having to get a bite to eat? Do they alot a 15 minute break or is that on
the clock too? Thanks!!

--litepipe

"EganMedia" wrote in message
...
I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up.

What's fair is whatever you're willing to pay. I start the clock at the
time
the session is booked. I bust my ass during setup (and usually a half an
hour
prior) and I charge for it. If you wante to come into my studio and get
your
head together for an hour or two, that would be fine by me. It's your
nickel.

I'm sure you do work hard. I have no problem with that. What I mean by
getting my head together is not having to freak because I'm pressured to
instantly record. I don't want to feel like I need to run to get going
because they don't think my buisness is worth a few extra set-up minutes.
I'm also not sure what is exactly meant by set-up time...Does that mean as
soon as I pull up in the car and bring in my first guitar I'm on the clock?
So I have a half hour to lug my gear from the front of the building to an
elevator, up the elevator, carry it into the studio and get it set-up and
ready to go in a half hour? I'm sorry. but I don't think that's fair. Now,
if the clock starts running from the time all my gear is in the studio,
fine. I can be ready to go in a half hour no prob.

--litepipe

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
...
I always allow an hour. The last thing I want is a client to feel
pressured... it makes or breaks the mood for days or weeks
to come. OTOH, if the client is set up quickly, I won't keep
him waiting... too long.


The mood is a very important factor. I obviously want to feel the studio is
on my side. I don't mean I want any breaks. I just want to feel like I'm in
a place that makes music and I matter. That I will pay for. Part of my
problem is the guy is always so rushed on the phone so I don't get the
chance to ask very many details about the session (or set-up time). I'm a
little worried because I'm not going in there to have him record and mix it
his way. I want production control. I'm not going to tell him how to do his
job or anything. I wouldn't do that. I don't want a put it in, spit it out
assembly line. He definately seems short. I'm sure he's busy and time is of
value (I'm busy too), but sometimes answering a few questions to ease a
client does have some importance. I'm probably just being an artist that's
over stressing a bit.

--litepipe

In article ,
litepipe l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote:

He definately seems short.

Only game in town, or what?

litepipe wrote:
I'm also not sure what is exactly meant by set-up time...Does that mean as
soon as I pull up in the car and bring in my first guitar I'm on the clock?
So I have a half hour to lug my gear from the front of the building to an
elevator, up the elevator, carry it into the studio and get it set-up and
ready to go in a half hour? I'm sorry. but I don't think that's fair. Now,
if the clock starts running from the time all my gear is in the studio,
fine. I can be ready to go in a half hour no prob.

Policies will vary from studio to studio and market to market. A half
hour to an hour seems fair. If you know the studios policy going in, and
you are still willing to work there, accept it. If there is another
studio in the area that is more forgiving, go to that studio.

Consider this analogy: If you are moving into an apartment on April 1st,
your rent is due on April 1st for the entire month. You wouldn't
expect the landlord to start charging rent only when you finally get
around to arranging your living room. No, rent starts April 1st. Now you
can take this even further. The first is on Thursday, but you won't be
able to move until Saturday the 3rd. Do you expect to only have to pay
for a partial month? No. Some landlords will give you a break in those
situations, some won't. But if you really want that apartment, you will
pay for those 2 days you aren't living there. This really isn't any
different than your studio set-up time issue.

eric
--
www.Raw-Tracks.com

"james" wrote in message
news:PA6ac.16406$Q45.16056@fed1read02...
In article ,
litepipe l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote:

He definately seems short.

Only game in town, or what?

With the kind of gear I want to use:-(( Otherwise I may as well record it
into Logic with my gear.

--litepipe

"EricK" wrote in message
...
Consider this analogy: If you are moving into an apartment on April 1st,
your rent is due on April 1st for the entire month. You wouldn't
expect the landlord to start charging rent only when you finally get
around to arranging your living room. No, rent starts April 1st. Now you
can take this even further. The first is on Thursday, but you won't be
able to move until Saturday the 3rd. Do you expect to only have to pay
for a partial month? No. Some landlords will give you a break in those
situations, some won't. But if you really want that apartment, you will
pay for those 2 days you aren't living there. This really isn't any
different than your studio set-up time issue.

I can't argue with this analogy. But usually with an apartment you're know
what to expect to pay for. I mean I don't know what their interpretation on
a half hour is. I wish he had some kind of studio policy printout he could
give me that would explain a lot of this clearly. Then I would have NO
problems.

--litepipe

In article ,
litepipe l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote:



"james" wrote in message
news:PA6ac.16406$Q45.16056@fed1read02...
In article ,
litepipe l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote:

He definately seems short.

Only game in town, or what?

With the kind of gear I want to use:-(( Otherwise I may as well record it
into Logic with my gear.

It takes me upwards of 15 minutes to setup my keyboard rig, assuming
everything is in the room already. But once that's done, I'm ready to
play.

I can understand what it's like if you have more than one amp, more one
guitar, a complicated pedalboard, etc. But I'm also sure you've set it
all up and torn it down so many times that you can do it blindfolded.

Your sessions are probably gonna go just fine, I bet a lot of your
problem is something like sticker shock, or maybe a cultural thing:
Sound guys have always tended to be harsh, abrupt people in my
experience, but then again, the ones I've worked with have often been
New England deadheads -- fitting a *solid* stereotype :-)

I think it would be wise to let it go. Do your yoga or whatever you do
on the morning you start, have all your stuff dialed in, new strings
already done, patch cords in the bag so they come out in the right
order, etc., etc., and just do the gig.

When Geffen is paying for the studio you won't be worried about whether
your yoga or lunch is on the clock, right? :-)

"james" wrote in message
news:wT6ac.16416$Q45.1544@fed1read02...
It takes me upwards of 15 minutes to setup my keyboard rig, assuming
everything is in the room already. But once that's done, I'm ready to
play.

Yeah, It doesn't really take me very long to set my gear up.

I can understand what it's like if you have more than one amp, more one
guitar, a complicated pedalboard, etc. But I'm also sure you've set it
all up and torn it down so many times that you can do it blindfolded.

Well, I usually don't take my whole rig on gigs thankfully. For the
session I'm taking a fair ammount of guitars/amps/pedals. I would imagine
that between me and my guitar tech that it wouldn't take any more than 15
minutes. I basically have to take all my guitars and amps out of their
cases. Put my pedal board down and plug in. Not much really. It's the carry
it in from the car part that has me worried. That's the long part.

I think it would be wise to let it go. Do your yoga or whatever you do
on the morning you start, have all your stuff dialed in, new strings
already done, patch cords in the bag so they come out in the right
order, etc., etc., and just do the gig.

Your probably right. I'm just stressin'. My guitars will be ready to go. I
wouldn't dream of changing strings there. Ofcouse I'm sure this has happened
to many studio owners he-))

When Geffen is paying for the studio you won't be worried about whether
your yoga or lunch is on the clock, right? :-)

You're right. Especially if they're paying for lunch too:-))

--litepipe

"litepipe" l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote in message ...

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in message
...
If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

Well, I'm not paying over $100 an hour. There are no studios that rate
near me. The rates are considerably higher than other studios in my area.
That's fine as they have a better facility and the staff seems to be very
knowledgable. I booked 10 hour blocks of time for each session. They will be
making a lot of money off of me. With that in mind I would have figured they
would be a little more relaxed. I'm not looking for free time. I don't want
or expect anything for free. I'm more worried about a relaxed environment.
Since we're talking about this I would like to know what the standard
procedure is for breaks in a 10 hour session. There are going to be several
sessions where I'm going to be tracking the entire 10 hours. What about
having to get a bite to eat? Do they alot a 15 minute break or is that on
the clock too? Thanks!!

--litepipe


My name is not Bob (I wish I had his experience), but if 10 hours is booked
at virtually any studio I can work at, it is then considered a day-long lockout.
At that point, for me, it doesn't matter if we are actually there for 13 or 14 hours
because breaks will be mandatory and the scenario relaxed. You could play
with your various instruments and tones while I munch a burger at no cost
to you. There's not enough time left in the day to worry about dealing with
another session.

Normally, I won't even book a 10, because there will be enough breaks and
slack time to consume ten but only be biled for the clock time. That varies
though, depending on how packed the calendar is at the studio. One thing
that doesn't change, is that 10 hours is getting awfully close to a 'marathon'
and everyone involved can approach a level of burn-out before that time is
completed. That many hours can often become counter-productive unless
the studio is blocked-out from other bookings and the time can be approached
as loosely as necessary to keep everyone interested and not stressed.

If you had booked the time with me and made it clear about the various
instruments and amps you wanted to use, I would graciously allow you
an hour at the very least. It *could* be that the person who is calling more
than a half hour of set-up, "rediculous", knowing full well what your session
is to involve pertaining to your instrument, amplifier, and tone needs... is simply
of a mind that he can charge what he pleases and you will pay it due to the
fact that you have 'chosen' his facility, therefore must agree to his terms.

Quite honestly, if you don't know this person very well, I would have a nice
cordial chat with him about the amount of money you are about to put in his
pocket and see if you can't get some slack here. Sounds like pressure to me.


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Mr. Lightpipe,

Most engineers are giving you a free hour already.
30 min up front and 30 min to get out.

You just do your thing and don't stress.

Kenny

"litepipe" wrote:

"John Noll" wrote...
1/2 hour is fair. You're using a professional facility
for your specific needs. They can't book it to someone
else while you "get your head together". The equipment
is on, the engineer is getting paid and the rent still
needs to be paid.

I do understand this and I'm not trying to get extra or waste their time.
The studio only books one session per day so there isn't anyone that could
using the time if I take a few minutes to get set up.

They're basically selling days, not hours, and you've bought some.

Plus, I booked big blocks of time.

Then consider how much you'll spend for a half-hour versus your total
booking and mark it down to part of the cost, and a small part at that.
I understand your concern not to feel rushed, and the best way to do
that is to accept that you're buying the time to use as you wish. You
wouldn't rush a guitar part to save money, because what you'd get could
be worthless; so don't rush yourself in set-up and enjoy the process.

--
ha

In article ,
litepipe l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote:
I do understand this and I'm not trying to get extra or waste their time.
The studio only books one session per day so there isn't anyone that could
using the time if I take a few minutes to get set up. Plus, I booked big
blocks of time.

Are you sure we don't know each other? ;-)

Seriously, I have client just like you. What I could be doing with
that hour is doing the books, doing repairs, having a nice lunch
instead of ordering takeout trash, getting that extra hour of sleep to
bring me up to a decent 6 per night, doing some errands or otherwise
making my life less miserable.

But, instead, my life gets slowly used up in small tidbits of
unbillable time, and over a long period of time, that slack builds up
and it's not cool at all. Sure, it's never planned that way, and it's
no huge amount of time at any one instance, but over the long haul, it
adds up.

If you're gonna take more than a half hour setup or show up late and
expect not to pay for that or whatever crazy situation that messes up
the studio owner's schedule, then it's billable. Period.

But, there's no reason why you shouldn't just pay the time and enjoy
the time. A 10 minute break can lead to great efficiencies that can
make the next hour a lot more efficient. Getting your head together
before the session for a half hour could shave many hours off of the
total time. By all means, take the break and you'll often find that
the project will bill less time overall.

This is true. I do understand, I was trying to get a vibe as to what the
standard was. A half hour seems a little rushed to me. I'm not looking to
take a nap or anything before I start I just hate having to rush. I like to
be focused and relaxed. Getting relaxed can take only a few minutes, I don't
need forever...but a relaxed environment helps.

Then just relax and get enough of a budget together so you aren't
rushed. If you can barely afford studio time, then you'll be too
stressed out anyway to make good use of it. You'll make bad decisions
that you think will save you time that in the end will only make the
project harder to complete (which means that it costs more to complete
because it takes longer to fix up bad performances than to just start
with good ones).


Best of luck to you and my sympathies to your engineer,

Monte McGuire

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
...
My name is not Bob (I wish I had his experience),

That makes two of us:-))


but if 10 hours is booked
at virtually any studio I can work at, it is then considered a day-long
lockout.
At that point, for me, it doesn't matter if we are actually there for 13
or 14 hours
because breaks will be mandatory and the scenario relaxed. You could play
with your various instruments and tones while I munch a burger at no cost
to you. There's not enough time left in the day to worry about dealing
with
another session.

That's what I was thinking. I made it very clear to him about the 10 hour
sessions. Basically I did the 10 hour blocks because of one reason. When I
was booking the dates I was at 4 sessions and he stopped and said that would
be enough. I didn't anticipate having to do 10 hour sessions. I was going to
book 5 or 6 dates with fewer hours as to not get burnt out. I tried
explaining what the session was going to require (I'm playing all the
instruments except drums) and how many tracks roughly there would be. He
still said 4 is enough without listening much. He said they were open ended
sessions and we could get the work done.
From there I figured to get what I needed to get done I would have to do
10 hour sessions and told him I would do such (which is a little rough as he
doesn't start until the evening, but I'm a night hawk so..). I know how many
tracks I have to do as I've already laid out demo's of the songs. I'm not
going in there blind. If I get the tracks done sooner great!! But, it could
take that long. I'm very particular and I want to get the best takes.
So to get all the tracking/mixing/mastering done in this time I'm a
little skepticle. One instrument at a time with different guitar/amp/effects
and a lot of mixing...

Normally, I won't even book a 10, because there will be enough breaks and
slack time to consume ten but only be biled for the clock time. That
varies
though, depending on how packed the calendar is at the studio. One thing
that doesn't change, is that 10 hours is getting awfully close to a
'marathon'
and everyone involved can approach a level of burn-out before that time is
completed. That many hours can often become counter-productive unless
the studio is blocked-out from other bookings and the time can be
approached
as loosely as necessary to keep everyone interested and not stressed.

I had to book time two months in advance. He had more time open at the
time, but didn't seem to want to give it to me.

If you had booked the time with me and made it clear about the various
instruments and amps you wanted to use, I would graciously allow you
an hour at the very least. It *could* be that the person who is calling
more
than a half hour of set-up, "rediculous", knowing full well what your
session
is to involve pertaining to your instrument, amplifier, and tone needs...
is simply
of a mind that he can charge what he pleases and you will pay it due to
the
fact that you have 'chosen' his facility, therefore must agree to his
terms.

Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but he seems to have very little interest in
the outline of my session. He doesn't seem very approachable. Again, maybe
I'm reading him wrong. I certainly have felt better when talking to guys
from other studio's. They're just not analog like I want. He definately
knows what he's doing and has a lot of experience, but....

Quite honestly, if you don't know this person very well, I would have a
nice
cordial chat with him about the amount of money you are about to put in
his
pocket and see if you can't get some slack here. Sounds like pressure to
me.

Yeah, maybe I should....Well, I kind of tried today, but he was pushing me
off the phone. I don't know how many of you feel, but to me communication is
important. I don't like it when I feel I'm not being informed enough
especially when I'm putting up a lot of hard earned money (I had to play a
lot of gigs and teach a lot of students to come up with the dough). I would
have had no problem with him if he would have explained his set up time more
clearly and patiently. I don't think he really knows what I'll be bringing
or doing, nor does he care. I may be wrong, but that's the vibe I get which
scares me.
I don't know, I could be overanalyzing...It's just that I read this
newsgroup a lot and everyone here seems very helpful and loves the process
of creating music. I assumed I would get the same vibe from this studio.

--litepipe

"litepipe" wrote:

So to get all the tracking/mixing/mastering done in this time I'm a
little skepticle.

I would suggest mastering somewhere else where that is the primary task
of the business, but if you must do it where you're recording and
mixing, too, do it in sessions apart from the rest of it so that you
come to it fresher. Your ears need to forget a little exactly how they
think it sounds or they won't hear how it really sounds.

You work against yourself trying to master in the same room with the
same gear and the same person that you tracked and mixed in and with.

--
ha

"litepipe" wrote:

Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but he seems to have very little interest in
the outline of my session. He doesn't seem very approachable. Again, maybe
I'm reading him wrong. I certainly have felt better when talking to guys
from other studio's. They're just not analog like I want. He definately
knows what he's doing and has a lot of experience, but....

Hmmmm... I think I'd have booked one day with him to see if it worked
before I booked a whole lot of time.

--
ha

"Monte P McGuire" wrote in message
...
Are you sure we don't know each other? ;-)

I don't know do we? :-)

Seriously, I have client just like you. What I could be doing with
that hour is doing the books, doing repairs, having a nice lunch
instead of ordering takeout trash, getting that extra hour of sleep to
bring me up to a decent 6 per night, doing some errands or otherwise
making my life less miserable.

Agreed. I can appreciate that. Really I can. I know you're time is
valuable. I never play a set for free. Two encores and I'm done unless I'm
being paid extra.

But, instead, my life gets slowly used up in small tidbits of
unbillable time, and over a long period of time, that slack builds up
and it's not cool at all. Sure, it's never planned that way, and it's
no huge amount of time at any one instance, but over the long haul, it
adds up.

Yes, but that's life. There are points in every job where you do things
that can't be billed. ****, I wish I could tack some money onto my bill for
waiting at the end of the night to get paid.....

If you're gonna take more than a half hour setup or show up late and
expect not to pay for that or whatever crazy situation that messes up
the studio owner's schedule, then it's billable. Period.

O.K. But by how much? If it takes me 45 minutes to set up instead of 30
how do I get billed? A full hourly rate? I would never show up late and
expect not to pay.


But, there's no reason why you shouldn't just pay the time and enjoy
the time. A 10 minute break can lead to great efficiencies that can
make the next hour a lot more efficient. Getting your head together
before the session for a half hour could shave many hours off of the
total time. By all means, take the break and you'll often find that
the project will bill less time overall.

Yes, you're right. The more I talk about it the more I don't care. I just
didn't expect to figure that in at the time and he didn't explain that to me
at the time of booking. I'll just factor some more time in there as to not
be rushed. I just like to know what to expect. I really started this thread
to find out what the standard was or if he was just sticky with time.

This is true. I do understand, I was trying to get a vibe as to what
the
standard was. A half hour seems a little rushed to me. I'm not looking to
take a nap or anything before I start I just hate having to rush. I like
to
be focused and relaxed. Getting relaxed can take only a few minutes, I
don't
need forever...but a relaxed environment helps.

Then just relax and get enough of a budget together so you aren't
rushed. If you can barely afford studio time, then you'll be too
stressed out anyway to make good use of it. You'll make bad decisions
that you think will save you time that in the end will only make the
project harder to complete (which means that it costs more to complete
because it takes longer to fix up bad performances than to just start
with good ones).

I'll be very relaxed when I'm there. I'm a little stressed now. I know my
parts and we're ready to go. It's communication. He's prob. a fine guy.
Maybe he's a little short because he does this so much he's tired of going
through the explanation or just assumes everyone knows the procedure. I know
he's not a bull****ter and he has excellent ability. It's been a very
stressful month for me and I'm prob. just fraking a little.

Best of luck to you and my sympathies to your engineer,

I don't understand this comment? Why would you say such a thing? You don't
even know me or my work ethic. I'm actually very easy to work with. I'm
very particular, but I'm not negative and I love the process. When I know
what's on the table and it's clear I have NO problems. I often wonder why
studios don't have a policy page on their website that specifically gives
details as to billing, etc...

--litepipe

"hank alrich" wrote in message You work against
yourself trying to master in the same room with the
same gear and the same person that you tracked and mixed in and with.

I will definatley do a different day for mastering now that you mentioned
it. They have a different room with different gear specifically for
mastering so I don't think that will be a problem. They do a decent ammount
of mastering work.

--litepipe

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
...

"EggHd" wrote in message
...

If you are paying over $100 an hour with a three hour minimum, an
hour's
setup is pretty common. I wouldn't expect it for less than that.

I was thinking an hour is doable.


I always allow an hour. The last thing I want is a client to feel
pressured... it makes or breaks the mood for days or weeks
to come. OTOH, if the client is set up quickly, I won't keep
him waiting... too long.

Sheeit! Dave must have his coffee time :-)

Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but he seems to have very little interest
in
the outline of my session. He doesn't seem very approachable. Again, maybe
I'm reading him wrong. I certainly have felt better when talking to guys
from other studio's. They're just not analog like I want. He definately
knows what he's doing and has a lot of experience, but....

I'm not sticking up for the guy, but sometimes folks can seem uninterested
simply by their confidence level.


Yeah, maybe I should....Well, I kind of tried today, but he was pushing
me
off the phone. I don't know how many of you feel, but to me communication
is
important. I don't like it when I feel I'm not being informed enough
especially when I'm putting up a lot of hard earned money (I had to play a
lot of gigs and teach a lot of students to come up with the dough). I
would
have had no problem with him if he would have explained his set up time
more
clearly and patiently. I don't think he really knows what I'll be bringing
or doing, nor does he care. I may be wrong, but that's the vibe I get
which
scares me.
I don't know, I could be overanalyzing...It's just that I read this
newsgroup a lot and everyone here seems very helpful and loves the process
of creating music. I assumed I would get the same vibe from this studio.

Sometimes the client tries to talk the session to death before it starts.
Although it's good to get things together and discuss things before the
session, you don't have to discuss absolutely everything. However, if he's
not listening to you, book somewhere else. It seems to me that you are not
comfortable with the situation. Don't book the place just because it's
analog. A good engineer will make you sound good on the gear he uses to
record with... period. He should also have enough people skills to make you
feel comfortable enough to not doubt him. I personally would run like hell
if I felt as uncomfortable as you seem to feel. Analog is cool, but not cool
enough if you find that you are throwing your money down the toilet paying a
guy that doesn't have your best interest at heart, one of them being
communication. Remember, your not hiring the gear, but the studio as a
whole.

When Geffen is paying for the studio you won't be worried about whether
your yoga or lunch is on the clock, right? :-)

You're right. Especially if they're paying for lunch too:-))

They never pay for the lunch or the yoga, it comes out of your cut
eventually g

if you're bringing a guy with you to help set up, you should be able
to get your rig up and running in 30 minutes. but that's only half
the story. the studio has to get their mics ready, cables run, etc.

i remember i booked time in a studio to cut a quick demo with a band.
the studio owner/op was literally very obese and slow. it took
*forever* for him to waddle around and setup cables and mics. i felt
like telling the guy to sit his fat ass down and let me run the
cables. but i bit my tongue. also, i couldn't believe he didn't have
anything ready before we came. nothing.

i literally have a discrmination against fat studio people now. if
they can mix brilliantly and their only job is to camp out behind the
console, fine. but if i have to waste time and money watching another
beached whale run cables at the speed of mold i'll probably go insane.

it's the only time i've ever experienced this. most studio people
i've come across are fast moving and fast thinking.

just another angle to think about.

p.s. i've been waiting for a reason to vent my frustration with this
experience i had!

"litepipe" l_itepipe no spam @adelphia.net wrote in message
I'm also not sure what is exactly meant by set-up time...Does that mean
as
soon as I pull up in the car and bring in my first guitar I'm on the
clock?
So I have a half hour to lug my gear from the front of the building to an
elevator, up the elevator, carry it into the studio and get it set-up and
ready to go in a half hour? I'm sorry. but I don't think that's fair. Now,
if the clock starts running from the time all my gear is in the studio,
fine. I can be ready to go in a half hour no prob.

Why don't you just get there a bit early?

In article ,
xy wrote:

i literally have a discrmination against fat studio people now.

I worked in a theatre where the manager could literally not fit into the
doorway to get to the sound booth, let alone the catwalk. It made the
job almost bearable.

(EganMedia) wrote in message

I start the clock at the time the session is booked. I bust my ass during setup (and usually a half an hour prior) and I charge for it.

Yup, that's the right way to charge. I give half an hour free time
prior,and then I charge for the jokes ......... During tracking,
the setting up is the hardest work I do. If the Band works as hard
we'll have a good session.

J_West

"Thomas Bishop" wrote in message
om...
Why don't you just get there a bit early?

That's what I wanted to do but he doesn't seem fond of the idea.

--litepipe

EganMedia wrote:
I don't mind paying, I just
want to know what's fair for set-up.

What's fair is whatever you're willing to pay. I start the clock at
the time the session is booked. I bust my ass during setup (and
usually a half an hour prior) and I charge for it. If you wante to
come into my studio and get your head together for an hour or two,
that would be fine by me. It's your nickel.

If, OTOH, you're expecting comped time for setup, graciously accept
whatever the studio manager offers you. Realize that the bank,
insurance companies, employees, utilities, and leasing companies are
all still charging the studio for your setup time.

I have things basically set up before the client arrives; right number of
mics/stands, estimated optimal mics for whichever purpose, connected, and
the desk set up ready to go . Then it only takes 5 minutes to set up their
main gear and the finer setting up of mic possies/tone is done as while the
drummer sets his set up and they warm up, which is all chargable. But I'm
generally pretty generous with knocking time off for any ****ing around for
which I have made a contribution.

geoff

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...
Sometimes the client tries to talk the session to death before it starts.
Although it's good to get things together and discuss things before the
session, you don't have to discuss absolutely everything.

Yeah, you're right. I'll give it some time.

--litepipe

xy wrote:
if you're bringing a guy with you to help set up, you should be able
to get your rig up and running in 30 minutes. but that's only half
the story. the studio has to get their mics ready, cables run, etc.


To me the basic grunt work like that should be done prior to the client
arriving. Also it's a real pain trying to do that with half a dozen dudes
humping amps, gats, drums and stuff around the room/s.

i remember i booked time in a studio to cut a quick demo with a band.
the studio owner/op was literally very obese and slow. it took
*forever* for him to waddle around and setup cables and mics.

i felt
like telling the guy to sit his fat ass down and let me run the
cables. but i bit my tongue. also, i couldn't believe he didn't have
anything ready before we came. nothing.

Fairy nuff.

i literally have a discrmination against fat studio people now. if
they can mix brilliantly and their only job is to camp out behind the
console, fine. but if i have to waste time and money watching another
beached whale run cables at the speed of mold i'll probably go insane.

I've seen fat people do things quickly and efficiently, and thin people ****
about no-end.

geoff

james wrote:
In article ,
xy wrote:

i literally have a discrmination against fat studio people now.

I worked in a theatre where the manager could literally not fit into
the doorway to get to the sound booth, let alone the catwalk. It
made the job almost bearable.

Imagine if he was able to just squeeze in, and ate a burger in there and
couldn't get *OUT* !!!!

geoff

I wonder if the dude's a rap "member".....and he's reading this thread.




litepipe wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...

Sometimes the client tries to talk the session to death before it starts.
Although it's good to get things together and discuss things before the
session, you don't have to discuss absolutely everything.


Yeah, you're right. I'll give it some time.

--litepipe

When's your drummer getting there?



Me at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm